Subaru Legacy/Outback

seayakker

Tom ~

91 is the recommended octane for the 6's; 87 "may be used if necessary"

ateixeira

I've read that the H6 makes 208hp on 87 octane, but that you can use it if you wish.

-juice

goosegog

Here's a new one. My wife and I have been driving our 00 Outback for two years now, including several long road trips. But lately, over the last couple of months, we have both noticed a sloshing noise when moving off or braking. It is obviously from the fuel tank but we are both sure it is a new noise. It seems to make little difference whether the tank is full, empty or in between.

Anyone else noticed this? Is there perhaps some kind of baffle in the tank that may have come loose?

P.S. Thanks for the praise, Steve.

nygreg

Is it possible that maybe you have removed the "bin" above the spare tire that would provide some noise insulation? Just a thought (JAT?)

Greg

cptplt

I'm assuming you are going to have 16in wheel son your new car and want to use your old 15in wheel/winter tires.

I have a 98 GT Legacy which came with 16in alloys with 205/55-16 tires. I purchased a set of 15 in wheels (OB look alike alloys) with 195/65-15 snow tires.(Tirerack.com do great packages - at that time, the only 16in option was OEM wheels). There is a 0.4% difference in tire circumference which is negligible.I can't tell any difference in handling beyond that one may expect with the tires themselves.If you are within a half inch circumference its probably inconsequential.

If you want to calculate tire sizes go here

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

A bigger problem you may have with the Forester wheel on a Legacy/Outback is the offset which I belive is different from other Subarus.Again depending on who you believe, up to 10mm differnece may be ok unless you plan on putting real fat tires but if you are getting winter tires, they should be narrower than your summer ones ideally (that is also contentious!).

teacher447

I test drove a OB LL Bean on Sat. I was fairly impressed with the car. It seema a little pricey for what you get but looking at the Volvo xcountry it seems like a bargain. I currently have a 1989 toyota sw v6 with 140000 miles on it. It runs well, but my wife feels we should get a new car. Can anyone give me any advice about this car? Thanks in advance! BTY I went to 2 diffent dealers and the price difference was over $1100.

ateixeira

Shop around, and compare prices to fitzmall.com. Right now prices start at $26,367 for a Bean, freight included.

That may seem like a lot at first, but even a Camry or Altima can exceed that price, and they aren't wagons, nor do they offer AWD. An H6 sedan is about a grand less, too.

I really like them. IMO they are loaded up and comparable with Acura and Lexus models.

-juice

llbean30

Hi Brian, I installed the rear wing on my ll bean some time ago. It is very easy if you can use basic tools . You do have to be careful getting the interior panels off and back on( instructions are with the wing), the holding clips can be broken fairly easily.You do not need any special tools or insert pullers.Place the templates where they should be and tape them down securely.Use you vision to sight the wing where it will be affixed,(my templates were a tad off to one side and I visually corrected the wing placement to look even.When punching the metal mask the area to be drilled and tap the punch one time lightly, (you don,t need a large dimple and a light tap on a sharp punch or an eight penny nail will do it). Use a drill depth guide or put some tape around the bit so that you don't drill the wires in the area( a piece of fuel line hose cut to the proper length and placed on the bit works great).I used sone touch up paint on the holes and silicone seal on the bolts and the underside of the buffer next to the metal.If you follow instructions and work carefully,you should do a fine job.
On a non related issue is or has anyone else besides me had trouble with their firestone wilderness tires on the subaru.After 11 months of complaining to subaru and firestone I still don't have a good resolution to my shimmying firestones on my 01 bean..
LUCK TO ALL------JACK

yellowbikedon1

My '01 has a bit over 15,000 miles. Other than the Check Engine Light problem (which was quickly diagnosed and "cured') I've experienced NO negative experiences. The LL Bean is the 3rd Subaru I've owned and is, by far, the best of the previously owned wagons. MPG averages 21-23 during all around driving with A/C on here in Florida. The wagon is tremendously reliable and sure footed, especially in the Florida rains.

If you have any specific questions, I'd be glad to try and answer them.

Don

bkaiser1

I really appreciate your input here...the spoiler arrived yesterday and it looks great. I'm going to attempt the install this week (if it ever stops snowing) and I let you know how it turns out! Oh, by the way, my Firestones are almost worn out at 26K miles and I'm looking forward to replacing them with a quality tire...I agree they are pretty crummy tires.
Brian

goosegog

No Greg, nothing removed. The sloshing is really quite loud...I've never heard anything like it before, not in any car. Passengers comment on it before we've gone a couple of blocks. But it's new.

ffsteve

Teacher,

I bought a Bean almost a year ago. 10k miles later, I would buy another in a minute. I was a long time Toyota fan, but they didn't offer anything similar (wagon, not a "SUV"). Putting aside my reservations on going outside the brand, I decided on the Bean and have never looked back.

Good power, although not outstanding, smooth, good mileage, comfortable and smart interior, and all the bells and whistles. I've used mine on and off road, and it's always a good drive.

Steve

gbhopper2

There could be water in one of the doors. Check the drain holes at the bottom of the doors to make sure they are not plugged or blocked.

ateixeira

I was thinking the same thing.

-juice

nematode

Wow!!! We are at 35k on the original 2k OB Ltd. Wilderness tires and they look almost new. I dont run the factory recommended 30 psi front and 29 psi rear. I like 33 psi all around. We also do mostly highway driving.

bkaiser1

I keep my pressure around 32psi, too, and was a little surprised to see them wearing that fast (especially in light of the 500 treadwear rating). The centers of the tires seem to have way more tread than the edges, which the tire store who rotated the tires last attributed to improper tire pressure (?) and proceeded to air the tires up to 40psi. 40 is rock hard and just not tolerable, so I aired them right back down to 32. If they wear out because I run 32 in them rather than 40, oh well...I'd rather enjoy the ride. The alignment feels fine, other than its sensitivity to road crowns. Hmmm...

hondafriek

Check that the rocker panel has not gotten full of water, had this happen on a chrysler due to an imperfect weld on the rocker panel,

It is a long shot I know but not impossible.

Cheers Pat.

ffsteve

Another long shot.

Faulty gas tank, missing baffles? Appearance of noise have any relation to full/empty tank?

paisan

30K is perfectly acceptable for OEM tires. Heck I usually replace OEM ones after 20K miles.

-mike

rsholland

got over 70K out of his original 185/70x14 Bridgestone Potenzas on his '96 Impreza Outback!

Bob

paisan

That is just plain dangerous. I got 70K out of my OEM tires on my Rodeo but for at least 20-30K of those I was on borrowed time, not that they were legally bad, but I just didn't feel comfy on tires with 70K on them. Also those were pretty beefy truck tires. Maybe I'm crazy, but since that is the only thing holding me to the road I keep em nice and fresh.

-mike

rsholland

Not dangerous at all. I checked those tire pretty regularly, because I too was very surprised at the mileage he was getting out of them. In fact, I also had the Subaru dealer look at the tires each time it was brought in for service. It wasn't until he reached the 70K point that they (and I) thought the tires needed to be replaced. They wore very evenly all around the car. Besides, my son drives like a little old lady.

Bob

paisan

Dang that is suprising. Got to get that boy to auto-x!

-mike

ateixeira

Tire age is a factor. 70k miles over, say, 10 years might be a bad idea. The rubber starts to dry out and cracks, and loses traction.

Also, highway miles produce far less wear than paisan's "city rally" driving style. ;-)

At the Edmunds Live event, Hutch and I chuckled when one of the hosts told us the tires don't even last a full day on some of the sportier cars (Lexus IS300 in this case).

If you have more than 40k miles, inspect it by literally feeling the rubber. If it's hard and doesn't yield, or has hairline cracks, time for new tires.

-juice

rsholland

The fact that my son is very easy on equipment I'm sure played a huge role in getting such extraordinary mileage. The other factor, as juice mentioned, most of that mileage is highway or rural mileage, with very little city stop-'n-go driving.

Bob

ateixeira

AWD helped, too. I bet the front tires on a FWD model would have worn more quickly.

-juice

ccampbell4

My 02 Outback runs at about 3300 rpm's at 70mph. That seems high to me, and creates engine noise when traveling. I can't imagine what it will sound like at 80 through Colorado this summer. Is that normal? I asked someone with a Forester and they said they thought they ran at about 2500 or so at the same speed. Any thoughts?

ateixeira

Both have the exact same gear ratios and final drive (4.11:1), so the only difference is tire size. And the Outback actually has bigger tires that should make revs lower in theory.

So maybe yours is an auto and the Forester is a 5 speed?

-juice

rsholland

AWD I'm sure helped distribute the wear, as did religious tire rotation.

I need to re-phrase the following statement:

<< The fact that my son is very easy on equipment... >>

While it's true he's easy on driving a vehicle, if a Board of Health inspector ever looked inside his car it would condemned for human habitation. The interior is "infested" with old dry bagel bits, crumbs of every description, stains from spilt drinks, and heaps of just plain trash. Oh well, at least he's a good kid...

Bob

paisan

I suppose if it's mostly highway milage that would definitely make a big difference.

-mike

goosegog

Thanks for the suggestions folks but it's not the doors or rocker panels. It sounds like a large quantity of liquid and is definitely coming from the fuel tank. The sound is pretty well there all the time except just after a fill-up, when it goes away. By the time the gauge gets down to 3/4 the noise is at full volume and stays like that until refilled.

I agree with Steve and think there must be a baffle in the fuel tank that's come loose.

The trouble is the dealer will have to drain and remove the tank and then replace it, just to find out if that fixes the problem. You can't open the tank up to take a look. But I am a bit concerned about the stress 100lbs or more of unrestrained fuel might put on the tank, especially in the event of a collision.

ateixeira

I'd fix it. It's under warranty and things will only get worse. I'm sure your diagnosis is likely the problem.

-juice

ccampbell4

Actually, mine is the manual transmission. The other person I asked has an automatic. Maybe he was misremembering. Does anyone else know how high their rpm's are at highway speeds?

ateixeira

In that case the overdrive ratios are different, so I'd expect the revs to differ.

-juice

rob999

I've always wondered about that, too.

I drive a '01 Outback H4 w/ 5spd. At 75mph the engine thumps along at 3,500 rpm. When I first started driving the car I thought that this 'high rpm' was strange, too. You'd think Sube would put a taller 5th gear (or even a 6th 'overdrive') to cut down on RPM and improve gas mileage.

However, on the few highway trips I've been able to take, I HAVE gotten slightly more than the rated MPG (26) cruising at 75+ mph.

It's my highly subjective observation that engine sound actually decreases/smoothes out at 80 MPH - maybe some sort of sound wave/oscillation thing, so high speed cruising isn't too unpleasant. Can't vouch for gas mileage at that speed, though.

paisan

In my XT6 AT it runs at 3300RPMs @ 77mph. I believe my 5MT XT6 will run slighly higher than that. I found when the muffler was not working properly at 2000-2500rpms I had the loudest exhaust smoothing out as the RPMs went up from there. With my Trooper running 5% higher tires than normal I get 2300-2400rpms @ 77mph.

-mike

hammersley

Rob: your '01 runs the same as my '97 - 3500k @ 75mph. Relax - it's right there in the power band

Cheers!
Paul

ateixeira

paisan: did you correct your speedo, or are you measuring with the GPS?

Rob: you're not even at the torque peak yet. The 4 bangers may be geared so that you can pass in 5th without having to downshift (in most situations).

-juice

rob999

Yeah, I've gotten used to the fact that the engine IS designed to cruise at higher RPM's. It just threw me at first.

Having this discussion today prompted me to open it up to 85 mph on my homeward commute (I travel at off hours). Sweet and solid - what a fun car!

paisan

Those are corrected speeds via formula.

-mike

bbrandle

My wife's '01 Outback LTD has a problem as the clutch engages first gear from a standing start. It seems like the clutch skips and the car shudders as the clutch is let out. This seems to happen mostly in first gear, particularly when the engine is cold. I have noticed it happen in second gear as well (though not as pronounced). When I took the car to the dealer for the 7,500 mile service I noted to the service technician and he said that it could be that the clutch fluid was low and thus causing the problem.

I drove it again last night and am sure this is a problem that is growing in nature. Is the clutch fried or malfunctioning? Every car I've owned has had a manual and none of them has ever had this type of problem. My 2000 VW Passat (which my wife drove for the first year of its life) has had no problems at all even though I drive it more agressively. Any ideas? Thanks.

ateixeira

You are describing a symptom of the relatively weak pressure plate in Subie clutches.

Try Colin's suggestion: give it only a little gas, 1200rpm, and release the clutch pedal slowly. Wait until it's creeping forward and the clutch is completely released before giving it more gas.

You should be able to get a smooth take off. If it gets worse I'd have your dealer look at it.

-juice

revka

Hi Folks - Interesting Town Hall Subaru chat, this evening (18 April), for both Subaru and non-Subaru owners. Rick Rhoades, Subaru of America Technical Service Instructor, and Pete Eike, Subaru National Fixed Operations Training Manager will discuss all aspects of maintaining your vehicle, including which areas need attention prior to making those long trips.

If you are around at 6-7 pm Pacific Time or 9-10 ET please join us. And don't forget to fill out the interesting survey in the Chat area as well. Here's the link: http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/subarumaintenancechat041802.html

Thanks!

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards

bkaiser1

There are a few of us that have frequently posted about this (you may try the search of previous posts here) and so far there is no resolution to this problem, aside from altering your driving style. My 01 OB has had a horrible shudder in 1st/2nd gear since the car was new, and I now have 26K miles on the car. The dealer says it's normal due to the "kevlar disc" used in the clutch and that I should not worry. Hogwash, for sure, but that's the line. The car shakes so bad sometimes it sounds like the rear hatch is going to shake open.

I have really been able to lessen the frequency of the "problem" by using the clutch much more aggresively than I normally would -- that is, launching the car in 1st with at least, **at least** 1200-1500 rpms on the dial (sometimes more if it's a really cold takeoff) and leaving it in 1st when I'm stopped at lights (rather than neutral). It seems to help immensely, compared to my previous style of launching the car with the absolute minimum about of rev's (1000 or less). Try it, see if it helps. Or call 1-800-subaru3 and get a case file going...

Good luck.

bat1161

I believe I may have asked this once before, but since I can't seem to recall the answers, I will ask again. I appreciate your indulgence.

Has anyone put skidplates on their Subaru? I am considering the ones from Primitive Enterprises. I am curious how hard are they to mount, and do they have to be removed each time for service. I know Paul at Primitive wrote and told me they go on relatively easy, but I was looking for some one with real time input. I am considering the skidplates for times such as the Pine Barren runs, or driving on gravelly roads. I don't do it as often as I would like, but I'm wondering if it's worth the investment of $260 (with S/H).

Thanks again for the help.

Mark

dreamon

I just posted a message in another category describing a similar problem. In my case, I have a 1995 Legacy Wagon that needed a new clutch at around 190,000 miles. It was running fine again until recently (it now as 201,000 miles) when a shuddering/shaking began occurring going into 1st and 2nd gear. The problem is less severe after the car has been running a while. I, too, am wondering what could be casuing the problem.

ateixeira

Mark: got a link handy? Someone in the Forester thread was asking for it.

190k on the original clutch? I'll have one of those!

-juice

peterson10

RPMs: My 2000 OB (5MT) turns about 3200 rpms at 70 mph. My 2002 Forester (also 5MT) turns at only 2800. The Forester is lighter, but the Outback is (presumably) more aerodynamic. So, although I have no factual basis for this assumption, I assume the Forester and OB have different gear ratios. I would love that 6th gear to drop my cruising revs, but I suspect the engine can take the workout as is.

Clutch: I won't rehash the whole thing here, but with my OB (much more so than with the Forester), I get the best starts with the revs between 1800 and 2000 at the point of pick-up, that is, when the clutch fully engages and starts pulling the car forward. I've owned cars that could start in second gear with only 1000 rpms, but the OB just isn't designed for that. Consider how easily your OB can get moving in reverse; does the clutch chatter when backing up? With mine I need NO gas and the clutch never slips; so I assume its all about gear ratios. If the 1200 rpm soft-start that was mentioned previously doesn't help, try it with around 1900. I try to let the pedal out as quickly as possible, without bucking the clutch, so as to reduce the wear. I see people around town slip their clutches at low rpms for several seconds at a time. They may think they're being easy on the clutch, but I suspect otherwise. Anyway you can get a smooth start up without undue clutch wear is the way to go.

bat1161

Juice,

Here's the link to Paul's site. http://www.writerguy.com/primitive/skid.htm

He also has a lots of add-ons for different model Subies.

Mark

ateixeira

Maybe the gear boxes are different. I can't find any other way to explain it.

Thanks Mark, I'll share it with them.

-juice