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Comments
-juice
-Dave
-mike
I don't think you'll find it in the manual, at least for the '98 manual memory withstanding. But it is definitely on SoA website in 'Subaru Care'.
-Dave
-juice
I've only seen it in the website.
Jim
Thanks!
Patti
To me it sounds like you would be much happier with the GT, even if it has a smaller engine than the Bean. To me the 1 inch higher ride and soft suspension of the Outback only makes sense if you are going to be doing a significant amount of time on very ruff terrain. The 1" is not an issue for snow, only big bumps. I found the handling difference to be immense, and I think this makes the GT much safer! That is good for you AND your family.
Of course a lot of Outback owners will not agree and that is ok, many people do like a soft suspension.
I also have not driven the 6 cylinder engine yet, but I find the YR 2000+ 4 cylinder with a manual to be plenty powerful.
Sten
From what you have written I can tell you will appreciate the GT differences and that with just a 2 minute test drive you will know the answer. I drove the GT, Outback and L back to back repeatedly before making my decision. I ended up going with the L. The reason is because the L handled almost as good as the GT and much better than the Outback. The GT was less available and the L was significantly less money than both the Outback and GT. The money issue doesn't sound like an issue for you, so I would go with the GT.
I am very happy with my L but I may look at changing out the springs for stiffer ones later on.
What we all really need is for Subaru to start selling a model that has an adjustable suspension that would go 1" lower than the GT and L and 1-2" higher than the Outback and would be firmer in the lower position. Then we would all be happy and safer.
Sten
I also don't think you want a 17" wheel if you are going to be driving in snow...for a few reasons. Your tire would most likely have to be wider which would not perform as well on snow and chain clearance would be a problem.
If you are never going to be in snow you might want to look at a different tire. Check out tirerack.com
Sten
(BTW, we also reckoned our 11 year old would likely inherit whatever car we bought, and felt a whole lot better about her driving a Forester than a "sports car". By 2008 our Forester should look very boxy and dull...which is just the sort of car I want her driving!)
YetAnotherDave
Toyota doesn't seem to make much in the way of wagons anymore, I drove a Matrix, liked the brakes, handling OK... hated the ride... very jiggly. I have chronic tendinitis in both arms that is quickly irritated by a bad ride. I also have bad knees and ankles that can get irritated if I have to maintain a lot of pressure on the accelerator.
I have test driven (briefly) a Legacy L, which seemed similar if not considerably better than my Camry and seems to give me even more room for hauling stuff. However, I read in Consumer Reports that the base level Legacy wagon is a mediocre handler.
Which of the Subaru wagons handles and rides the best?
I have a 2001 GT wagon in Titanium Pearl, and I just love this car.
I have owned a multitude of Hondas dating back to 1976, and I would never go back to Honda after this car.
Cheers Pat.
The Outbacks have a slightly softer ride than the sportier GT's and also come with more ground clearance. We opted for the Outback since it came with the AWP (heated cloth seats, wiper deicer, heated mirrors, and LSD differential), the GT's didn't have that in 2000. Although, I really wouldn't have minded all that, I do like the GT wagon as well (my wife got the final vote in for the Outback
Other than that, they're practically identical inside and out. Unless you opt for the H6 - that's only available in the Outback (LL Bean or VDC).
If possible, try test driving one of each (and preferably, more than one drive, different days too). Don't be alarmed by the sticker prices of the H6 Outbacks, even those sell for under sticker nowadays.
-Brian
I thought about a Legacy GT, but it's pricier and I don't want a car with a sunroof, much less 2 of them! If they made it without the sunroofs, I'd be more inclined.
I feel like I'm leaning towards the Outback Base wagon as middle ground between the base Legacy and the GT. You could call me a minimalist... frankly, just the power doorlocks and windows seems extravagantly luxurious to me. (I'm not really sure I'd choose them if I had the option not to!)
I probably will drive both the Legacy L (well, I've already driven it once briefly, dealer didn't give me a long enough workout in it) and the Outback to get a feel for which I like better.
I do however like the center console cupholders! And the retractable cargo cover! And a big plus to whoever designed the slots to put the rear seatbelt fastenings into so they stay in place when you down the seat cushion and fold things flat!
One other question, once out of warranty and not being serviced at a Subaru dealership, do most shops service these cars? I was just wondering, as it seems like shops aren't listing the brand Subaru along with Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan.
You could always outfit auxillary HID driving lights like I did.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?E545245C
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J355225C
-Dave
John
cynthiag,
Depends on what you define as being the "best". The L will probably handle and ride closest to the Camry while the GT will feel a little more taut and sporty. The OB will ride a little higher due to it's beefed up suspension.
While I'm a big fan of the OB and GT, don't forget that the L is a great value vehicle. All three models share the exact same engine, drivetrain and chassis. They only differ with some modifications to the suspension. If you're on a budget, the L is a great vehicle. Also, any "mediocre" handling can be improved easily with new wheels and tires and a fatter sway bar.
Ken
The second dealer made all kinds of promises about letting me take one out by myself for half hour to an hour and then when I showed up today for a test drive as I'd told him I would, suddenly the policy changed, and I was stuck with a short test drive, this time with a salesman yammering at me about how I couldn't take too long as he'd be losing commissions. Well, I couldn't get that car back soon enough with that going on in my ears! Again, I wasn't entirely comfortable, just hadn't had enough time to get used to the vehicle.
I then promptly drove on to the next dealership, in Walnut Creek, where they had no qualms at all about me taking both a Legacy L and Outback out for a spin. I went further in the Outback.
It may just be me, but everything felt better in the Outback. The brake pedal seemed less mushy, the steering smoother, the ride nicer... I felt happy as I started to get used to the higher driving position! The way one should feel about the car one is going to buy.
I plan to return tomorrow and see what kind of deal they can give me. Hopefully, soon I'll be a Subaru owner! The other dealers should get a clue, no pressure at Diablo Subaru... when I said I was only test driving today, they respected that and didn't bug me.
My take, on paper, is as follows:
L: a bargain. "Base" in this case still has 4 wheel disc brakes, AWD, ABS, PS/PW/PL, and cruise. Add keyless and a CD, and it almost seems loaded. I'm considering an L, then I'd buy a set of take-off WRX rims and tires.
GT: nice thing is it's all packaged for you. Moonroof is something we like, but why oh why no heated seats? If it had them, it would be our choice. I know the 2003 gets heated leather, but the price no doubt will go up.
OB AWP: the AWP is so cheap it's worth it to me, and you get heated cloth for year-round comfort. The OB gets a few extras the GT doesn't, and it's cheaper. Loses the moonroof, that's probably why.
So I sell our 626 tomorrow, go car shopping Wednesday. We're going to sample them all, probably. I may even toss an LL Bean into the mix, just to cover all the bases. $26k for H6, auto, heated two-tone leather, alloys, 4 discs with ABS, AWD, cruise, keyless, CD, wood, and 2 moonroofs? We priced a Highlander with the same equipment - be ready to spend $6 grand more.
I loved the 2003 Forester I saw live at the NY Show, but it seems silly to buy two of the same car, and besides the wife wants a bigger back seat. But we may look at one once they arrive.
-juice
I noticed that you're also from the Bay Area. It might be a bit of a haul for you but try either Carlsen Subaru (Redwood City) or Santa Cruz Subaru. Both are no-pressure dealerships that let you test drive without a yapping salesperson. They also feature flat pricing of a few hundred over dealer invoice. I highly recommend either one.
Ken
Hi, I just read your postings this morning and by now you may already be the proud and ecstatic owner of a new Subaru. My previous car was a 1990 Toyota Corolla wagon with 146,000 miles that had never given me any grief. My boyfriend has a Toyota truck so we are big Toyota fans. However, until the 2003 Matrix, Toyota has not been making wagons, opting instead to have FIVE Suvs in its lineup. So I had to "resign" myself to a Subaru when I started looking for a new car.
Well, two months ago I bought a 2002 base Outback wagon and couldn't be happier. I love this car! I love how it is the perfect height to slide into - you don't have to step up or lower yourself down. It dives so smoothly and quietly. The doors close so solidly, and it feels so "beefy" and so much safer than my Corolla. Yes, and great cup holders!
We drove the Outback and the Forester back-to-back which is a great thing to do for comparison - don't even wait until the next day, you won't be able to remember how each one feels. The Outback won out because it was quieter (maybe the boxiness of the Forester causes it to be noisier), it had more leg room especially in the back and also more cargo space.
We also had a great buying experience with a salesperson we liked and who let us try whatever we wanted. So, if you feel pressure or general bad energy from a dealer, find another one. They should be doing something to convince you to give them all that money...
Good luck and have fun,
Kim
I traded in my 1999 OBS 4 weeks ago today for a L.L. Bean Outback. Can't get used to the automatic, but I sure got used to the extra spunk, the leather seats, the excellent stereo!
I gave up on the GT urge, since I like our Outback's a lot and with these tires it really helps!
What other mini mods can I do to improve performance? A KN filter? Or what?
Thanks, Heather
I'd get some track time, maybe try autocross one weekend, or a Friday at the Track event (FATT). Even something like Bob Bondurant would be a hoot.
A few of us Subie owners and Town Hall regulars went to a BMW Ultimate Driving Event, where we could drive around a track lined with cones. Our times were good compared to the group, definitely all in the quicker half, but even our quickest times (1:21-1:22) was a full two seconds off the pace of the instructors (1:19). I bet even if I had 20 extra horsepower the instructors still would have beat me. I need more practice.
Plus, it's fun, and it transfers over to any car you drive! :-)
-juice
thanks in advance
Mike k
Options: (CD player, air filtration, car alarm)
I'd have to say I have been VERY HAPPY with Diablo Subaru in Walnut Creek, CA so far. Great test drive policy, very laid back, no pressure, no talking you into unneeded stuff like rustproofing or pinstriping, no MENTION of it even. Heck, they talked me out of a couple options that I'd been considering (rear gate bar, differential protector). No advertising costs or hidden fees...
I was out the door for $24,330.60 I don't know if that's good or bad, but I did see the dealer invoice and it looked like they were nearly selling me the car for cost. At any rate, a very pleasant shopping experience. And I drove the exact car I would be buying first. It now has a grand total of 16 miles on it... 10 of which I put on.
I hope to take delivery this week, have to arrange my insurance and payment, since it's coming out of an account that is not in town, but it shouldn't be more than a couple days.
I can't wait!
-Brian
I just smile and think my old Jimmy would have taken 17 gallons at that point and had the same miles between fills.
(20mpg vs 27mpg)
--jay
I had my L.L. Bean 4 weeks today. it was a toss-up between white and Timberline Green. I loved them both! But since Timberline Green was their Bean poster girl, I chose it. My husbands 01' OB is sapphire blue, so they almost look like twins, except for the interior colors. My idea would be white with grey interior, but no such thing.
My OBS was white with grey interior. Will I ever get over the loss of my OBS? She was manual and fun, fun, fun! So cute! But fatal side impact ratings(the worst) now after 2002 they are the best in class- go figure! And only average rear occupant crash- My Outback is excellent rear occuopant and Good side impact- plus it has way more leg room in the back for our growing offspring. Her legs smashed up againt the OBS and she is 20 month's old! I did the right thing, but my heart aches for my Little Sister- that was her name. Will I ever get over Impreza fever? I had her for over 3 years and I was still in the new car love stage. I have yet to take a photo of my bean and drive my husband's OB since it is a manual. Any words of wisdom will help me. I can't get a Impreza my husband says since this is our 7th Subaru and no more he says! What have I done?!
Heather
I am sure you wiil completely happy with your new car.
Cheers Pat.
Thanks
Congrats Cynthia, I'm sure it's a great occasion. Hopefully my wife will join you as a new owner tomorrow.
Yeah, what color? What tranny? Did you get the AWP?
Michael: H6 mandates leather, auto, and moonroof, so for now they're pricey, and I don't believe that will change for 2003.
Still, fitzmall.com has an H6 sedan for just $25,299 freight included, and LL Bean wagons for $26,367. You may recall the press was screaming about the H6s costing $33k, but that's because they were VDC models at full retail with no incentives. Prices are much better now.
In fact, I may end up buying one, who knows what the wife will choose.
-juice
I got the automatic transmission, which is all I drive because a stick would aggravate the tendinitis in my arms. It seems responsive enough to me, though I did notice that it is a bit slow to pick up for passing. But I don't do that much of that, and if I need to, I'm sure I could manually downshift it. I had the option of power and normal (power being quicker to downshift) on my Camry's electronic transmission and I never used it really... just a wee bit for fun when the car was new. So I don't think I'll be as bothered by the auto transmission as some. It should fit right in with my driving style.
I gave the AWP a miss, hopefully I won't need it. It might have been nice, but then again, I'm in CA currently and the money will buy a lot of gas. I'll miss the Camry hatchback on that score I suspect.
Looks like I'll be taking delivery on Thursday, just can't get up to Walnut Creek before then. I can hardly wait!
Oh, and anyone dealing with Diablo Subaru of Walnut Creek, CA, I highly recommend Tom Anderson, a very nice and helpful gentleman.
As for your AT in your new subie, it's an adaptive type transmission. It will learn and adjust things based on how you drive it. It also has a 'power' mode that is engaged just by mashing the gas pedal. The 'power' mode stays in a particular gear longer, much like your Camry did. Just don't look for any indication of it being 'on' - they had that feature in older Subies. Also, it may have been slow to downshift with the engine & tranny still being 'green' (new); it should improve as you drive it.
Enjoy your new subie!
-Brian
Congrats. We'll be shopping tonight for my wife's next car.
-juice
Greg
My name is Heather- We traded my OBS in 4 weeks ago for a L.L. Bean in Timberline green. I felt heart sick for my OBS until today. Today I finally bonded with "my" Green Bean. I quote my since it seems to belong more to the husband then me. It was his choice and he convinced me it would be safer for our offspring then my OBS, which has very poor side impact ratings. I put new tires, Michelin Pilot's, on her today and she rides much better! I thought I'd never get used to the automatic, but I am slowly. It is a very nice powerful car! Step on the gas and you get thrown back into your seat big-time! I am putting a spoiler on her tomorrow. It is $110 at the dealer and $100 to install it.
Anyone else has the H6 Outback? What do you think? It is pure luxury with the leather seats and the Momo streering wheel! The stereo is much better then the standard OB's- even with preminum sound. Anyway, I am adjusting to the loss of my Impreza and bonding to my Green Bean.
Heather
-mike
I've also seen a few while driving around in a beautiful blue green.
I wish either of those colors had been available this year! However, I do like the wintergreen and part of the reason I chose it was because I thought it would be the least likely to show dirt.
Since I can't wash my car where I live, that's a big plus! Keeps the expenses down.
I should have the check from my account in Texas and hope to pay for it and pick it up tomorrow. The old Camry turned over that 198,000 mile today, so I got that bit of thrill before I have to part with her.
Looking forward to my Subaru though! (Although the fact that the owner's manual is an INCH thick compared to the 1/4 inch of the Camry manual is a bit daunting!)
The hard part will be living through the break-in period... but I will be the person doing all of it, I was the first to test drive my vehicle before I bought it! Only 16 miles on the odometer.
I'll take it very easy on her, besides, *I* have to adjust to driving a longer, heavier car. One that doesn't quite whip a U-turn the way I am used to !
I'd looked at a Forester because it was closer to my car in size, but it and I just didn't click like I did with the Outback. Although I still think the Forester is nice, I prefer the room of the Outback, I generally don't like to pile things high and I transport valuable breakables from time to time. And I like a nice highway cruiser, which the Outback seems rather ideal for!
I'll be lucky if I can sleep tonight! Hopefully FedEx will deliver my check bright and early.
Heather
2001 Outback in Deep Sapphire Blue and 2002 L.L. Bean in Timberline Green
Belated congratulation(s) on your fleet =D
Always liked the Deep Sapphire Blue Pearl.
Never offered in the Limited
-Dave
By the way, YOUR dream car is MY dream car - H6 GT Wagon w/ 5-spd manual (per profiles).
Now if Subaru would only make such a vehicle! My local dealer tells me they get lots of requests for this engine/trans combo.
Perhaps as alluded to a few posts back, the 5spd was originally used in the 90hp H4's and can't handle torque from the H6 (?). Time to come out with a beefy new 6 spd manual, methinks.