I had a 92 Legacy and when I replaced the RE92s, the front ones were worn down way, way more than the backs, but I never noticed any problems with the AWD. Is this 1/4 in thing just for the newer AWD systems? I'm sure it never said anything about that in the manual. I am going to check my 98s manual tonight.
Dennis (cptplt)- I don't think you'll find it in the manual, at least for the '98 manual memory withstanding. But it is definitely on SoA website in 'Subaru Care'.
Front wheels do all the steering, plus they carry more weight. With AWD, at least the job of accelerating is split, but still the fronts will usually wear more quickly.
Heather, To me it sounds like you would be much happier with the GT, even if it has a smaller engine than the Bean. To me the 1 inch higher ride and soft suspension of the Outback only makes sense if you are going to be doing a significant amount of time on very ruff terrain. The 1" is not an issue for snow, only big bumps. I found the handling difference to be immense, and I think this makes the GT much safer! That is good for you AND your family. Of course a lot of Outback owners will not agree and that is ok, many people do like a soft suspension. I also have not driven the 6 cylinder engine yet, but I find the YR 2000+ 4 cylinder with a manual to be plenty powerful. Sten
Heather, the two things you mentioned are two of the biggest factors that affect handling. Why do you think they use stiffer springs in the GT? They make it handle better, it responds better to your steering movements and will resist body roll more. The 1" of extra or lower height does make a difference in handling. It shifts the center of gravity, which effects how a vehicle rolls and responds to quick steering movements. Subaru even states the benefits of a lower center of gravity with the boxer engine. From what you have written I can tell you will appreciate the GT differences and that with just a 2 minute test drive you will know the answer. I drove the GT, Outback and L back to back repeatedly before making my decision. I ended up going with the L. The reason is because the L handled almost as good as the GT and much better than the Outback. The GT was less available and the L was significantly less money than both the Outback and GT. The money issue doesn't sound like an issue for you, so I would go with the GT. I am very happy with my L but I may look at changing out the springs for stiffer ones later on. What we all really need is for Subaru to start selling a model that has an adjustable suspension that would go 1" lower than the GT and L and 1-2" higher than the Outback and would be firmer in the lower position. Then we would all be happy and safer. Sten
When you want to replace tires on a GT or L I would look at the Dunlop 5000 on 16" wheels. But this depends on if you will be driving in the snow or not. This is what I am doing because I want improved handling on dry roads over the stock tires, but I also want to be able to drive in the snow. In CA it is difficult to live down below and then drive in the snow every weekend in the mountains. I decided this tire was better than driving a winter tire during the snowy season (for CA). I also don't think you want a 17" wheel if you are going to be driving in snow...for a few reasons. Your tire would most likely have to be wider which would not perform as well on snow and chain clearance would be a problem. If you are never going to be in snow you might want to look at a different tire. Check out tirerack.com Sten
I love my 5 speed L. The body height and spring rates do make a big difference between the L, GT and OB handling. Other differences are axle gear ratios, limited slip diffs, and $$. Keep in mind that less tire sidewall (larger wheels) and stiffer springs also make for a harsher ride. To me, the L is a very underrated model and a great value. The engine is not overly powerful, but it's the same as the other 4 cyl models and does OK around town. I do love shifting gears.
My apologies if this has already been suggested (and/or rejected), but why not take a hard look at a Forester (I'm thinking the '03 in particular)? My wife and I were in more-or-less the same situation last year, and opted for the L Forester over the L Legacy and the RS Impreza (we, too, already have a 5 spd. Outback). When you consider what you get for the money, and the premium "fun-factor" (the Forester actually weighs LESS than the Impreza, but gives you twice the visibility and lots more space for kids, bikes, and camping gear), it seemed a "no-brainer" to us. Our OB is the long-range cruiser, but our Forester is the car of choice for everything else ("sure honey, I'll go to the store for you...IF I can take the Forester!").
(BTW, we also reckoned our 11 year old would likely inherit whatever car we bought, and felt a whole lot better about her driving a Forester than a "sports car". By 2008 our Forester should look very boxy and dull...which is just the sort of car I want her driving!)
I'm currently driving a 1985 Toyota Camry 4-door liftback. Great car, utterly reliable, pleasant to drive, I put a 6-foot bookcase in it once with the hatch closed, but at nearly 198,000 miles, transmission is starting to get funky, there's a wheel bearing going and it's time for a new car.
Toyota doesn't seem to make much in the way of wagons anymore, I drove a Matrix, liked the brakes, handling OK... hated the ride... very jiggly. I have chronic tendinitis in both arms that is quickly irritated by a bad ride. I also have bad knees and ankles that can get irritated if I have to maintain a lot of pressure on the accelerator.
I have test driven (briefly) a Legacy L, which seemed similar if not considerably better than my Camry and seems to give me even more room for hauling stuff. However, I read in Consumer Reports that the base level Legacy wagon is a mediocre handler.
Which of the Subaru wagons handles and rides the best?
The Outbacks have a slightly softer ride than the sportier GT's and also come with more ground clearance. We opted for the Outback since it came with the AWP (heated cloth seats, wiper deicer, heated mirrors, and LSD differential), the GT's didn't have that in 2000. Although, I really wouldn't have minded all that, I do like the GT wagon as well (my wife got the final vote in for the Outback
Other than that, they're practically identical inside and out. Unless you opt for the H6 - that's only available in the Outback (LL Bean or VDC).
If possible, try test driving one of each (and preferably, more than one drive, different days too). Don't be alarmed by the sticker prices of the H6 Outbacks, even those sell for under sticker nowadays.
I have been thinking of the purchase of an OB for about 6months, I used to own a 01 OB LTD, but traded it for a 01 S2000. We have decided to purchase a Log Home on a lake in the Adirondacks of NY and think the addition of a new OB would help arriving there. I am sure the 03 OB will see slight exterior and interior improvements and think I should possibly wait til fall when they arrive, does anyone know what will be different about the 03's? I am hoping for HID headlights in particular.
I'm not used to message boards, I hope I'm posting this reply correctly!
I thought about a Legacy GT, but it's pricier and I don't want a car with a sunroof, much less 2 of them! If they made it without the sunroofs, I'd be more inclined.
I feel like I'm leaning towards the Outback Base wagon as middle ground between the base Legacy and the GT. You could call me a minimalist... frankly, just the power doorlocks and windows seems extravagantly luxurious to me. (I'm not really sure I'd choose them if I had the option not to!)
I probably will drive both the Legacy L (well, I've already driven it once briefly, dealer didn't give me a long enough workout in it) and the Outback to get a feel for which I like better.
I do however like the center console cupholders! And the retractable cargo cover! And a big plus to whoever designed the slots to put the rear seatbelt fastenings into so they stay in place when you down the seat cushion and fold things flat!
One other question, once out of warranty and not being serviced at a Subaru dealership, do most shops service these cars? I was just wondering, as it seems like shops aren't listing the brand Subaru along with Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan.
You might also look at the Forester. It has a little less room, but is very nimble and fun to drive. Its back seat is not very comfortable or spacious, but OK for short hauls. I usually don't carry back seat passegers so, this was less critical. I replaced an '85 Toyota Tercel 4WD wagon (280K miles!) with a Forester "S" in 1999 and have been very happy with it. The 2003 Foresters are due out late May and will have more comforatble back seats than the current model. The "L" (soon to be "X") model is well equipped and a good value. The "S" (soon to be "XS") models have heated seats & side mirrors, painted cladding, rear disc brakes and a few other goodies in the low-to-mid $20Ks.
Depends on what you define as being the "best". The L will probably handle and ride closest to the Camry while the GT will feel a little more taut and sporty. The OB will ride a little higher due to it's beefed up suspension.
While I'm a big fan of the OB and GT, don't forget that the L is a great value vehicle. All three models share the exact same engine, drivetrain and chassis. They only differ with some modifications to the suspension. If you're on a budget, the L is a great vehicle. Also, any "mediocre" handling can be improved easily with new wheels and tires and a fatter sway bar.
Wow, I want to thank those who've helped on this! I think I have figured it out. The first two Subaru dealers were not that helpful, the first one I went to would only let me drive cars for one exit on the freeway, which just wasn't enough for me to tell how I felt about it. I drove a Forester and a Legacy L. Didn't feel comfortable in the Forester really, though I suspect part of that was just that I'm not used to sitting so high. To me it felt tippy, though perhaps if I'd had a longer drive in it, I'd have felt better about it.
The second dealer made all kinds of promises about letting me take one out by myself for half hour to an hour and then when I showed up today for a test drive as I'd told him I would, suddenly the policy changed, and I was stuck with a short test drive, this time with a salesman yammering at me about how I couldn't take too long as he'd be losing commissions. Well, I couldn't get that car back soon enough with that going on in my ears! Again, I wasn't entirely comfortable, just hadn't had enough time to get used to the vehicle.
I then promptly drove on to the next dealership, in Walnut Creek, where they had no qualms at all about me taking both a Legacy L and Outback out for a spin. I went further in the Outback.
It may just be me, but everything felt better in the Outback. The brake pedal seemed less mushy, the steering smoother, the ride nicer... I felt happy as I started to get used to the higher driving position! The way one should feel about the car one is going to buy.
I plan to return tomorrow and see what kind of deal they can give me. Hopefully, soon I'll be a Subaru owner! The other dealers should get a clue, no pressure at Diablo Subaru... when I said I was only test driving today, they respected that and didn't bug me.
We're in the same boat as Heather and Cynthia - cross shopping the fine Legacy wagons. I guess it's good to have choices, eh?
My take, on paper, is as follows:
L: a bargain. "Base" in this case still has 4 wheel disc brakes, AWD, ABS, PS/PW/PL, and cruise. Add keyless and a CD, and it almost seems loaded. I'm considering an L, then I'd buy a set of take-off WRX rims and tires.
GT: nice thing is it's all packaged for you. Moonroof is something we like, but why oh why no heated seats? If it had them, it would be our choice. I know the 2003 gets heated leather, but the price no doubt will go up.
OB AWP: the AWP is so cheap it's worth it to me, and you get heated cloth for year-round comfort. The OB gets a few extras the GT doesn't, and it's cheaper. Loses the moonroof, that's probably why.
So I sell our 626 tomorrow, go car shopping Wednesday. We're going to sample them all, probably. I may even toss an LL Bean into the mix, just to cover all the bases. $26k for H6, auto, heated two-tone leather, alloys, 4 discs with ABS, AWD, cruise, keyless, CD, wood, and 2 moonroofs? We priced a Highlander with the same equipment - be ready to spend $6 grand more.
I loved the 2003 Forester I saw live at the NY Show, but it seems silly to buy two of the same car, and besides the wife wants a bigger back seat. But we may look at one once they arrive.
I noticed that you're also from the Bay Area. It might be a bit of a haul for you but try either Carlsen Subaru (Redwood City) or Santa Cruz Subaru. Both are no-pressure dealerships that let you test drive without a yapping salesperson. They also feature flat pricing of a few hundred over dealer invoice. I highly recommend either one.
Hi, I just read your postings this morning and by now you may already be the proud and ecstatic owner of a new Subaru. My previous car was a 1990 Toyota Corolla wagon with 146,000 miles that had never given me any grief. My boyfriend has a Toyota truck so we are big Toyota fans. However, until the 2003 Matrix, Toyota has not been making wagons, opting instead to have FIVE Suvs in its lineup. So I had to "resign" myself to a Subaru when I started looking for a new car.
Well, two months ago I bought a 2002 base Outback wagon and couldn't be happier. I love this car! I love how it is the perfect height to slide into - you don't have to step up or lower yourself down. It dives so smoothly and quietly. The doors close so solidly, and it feels so "beefy" and so much safer than my Corolla. Yes, and great cup holders!
We drove the Outback and the Forester back-to-back which is a great thing to do for comparison - don't even wait until the next day, you won't be able to remember how each one feels. The Outback won out because it was quieter (maybe the boxiness of the Forester causes it to be noisier), it had more leg room especially in the back and also more cargo space.
We also had a great buying experience with a salesperson we liked and who let us try whatever we wanted. So, if you feel pressure or general bad energy from a dealer, find another one. They should be doing something to convince you to give them all that money...
I did not like the feel of my tires on my 2001 Outback at all. I did tons of research on www.tirerack.com and I decided on the Michelin Pilot's for that road clinging sporty (GT) feel. Oh Boy what a difference in feel! I can feel the road that's for sure, even had to turn the radio up to hear it on the freeway, but worth the sportier road clinging feel of these Michelin Pilot XGT H4's tires! I got them at American Tires for $111 each and no fee to install. So not bad! I will replace the tires on my 2002 L.L. Bean also soon since it makes a huge difference. Very happy with these tires! She still does not take tight corners as well as my exOBS but closer, alot closer!
I traded in my 1999 OBS 4 weeks ago today for a L.L. Bean Outback. Can't get used to the automatic, but I sure got used to the extra spunk, the leather seats, the excellent stereo! I gave up on the GT urge, since I like our Outback's a lot and with these tires it really helps!
What other mini mods can I do to improve performance? A KN filter? Or what? Thanks, Heather
Great news, congrats. I'm glad you like it more. The 2002s actually come with different tires now, FWIW.
I'd get some track time, maybe try autocross one weekend, or a Friday at the Track event (FATT). Even something like Bob Bondurant would be a hoot.
A few of us Subie owners and Town Hall regulars went to a BMW Ultimate Driving Event, where we could drive around a track lined with cones. Our times were good compared to the group, definitely all in the quicker half, but even our quickest times (1:21-1:22) was a full two seconds off the pace of the instructors (1:19). I bet even if I had 20 extra horsepower the instructors still would have beat me. I need more practice.
Plus, it's fun, and it transfers over to any car you drive! :-)
I purchased a LLB Outback wagon last year, between Christmas and New Years. After years of driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee, this car is a welcome change. Very comfortable ride, nice acceleration, great handling, and much better gas mileage. One thing that I have noticed, especially with the smaller gas tank (17 gallons verses 23 on the Jeep) is that the gauge gets down towards the empty mark pretty fast. The gauge indicated 1/8 of a tank when I filled it up tonight. This would mean that it should take 15 gallons to fill it, but it was full after receiving 12 gallons. I know that most cars gas gauges indicate lower than actual, but this seams a rather large margin. I imagine that it will indicate empty while it still has 3 - 4 gallons in it, which represents 25% of the total fuel capacity. I'm curious if others have experienced this as well, and it is normal for this car, or if I should address this with the dealer. Any advise would be appreciated!
I know this was talked about a couple of weeks ago . Some people said that the level in there coolant overflow tank is slowly going down . well checked mine today and it is between full and empty with engine cold . Anybody know if this is normal or is my engine drinking coolant . My02 outback base wagon 4eat 8400k miles .
I'd have to say I have been VERY HAPPY with Diablo Subaru in Walnut Creek, CA so far. Great test drive policy, very laid back, no pressure, no talking you into unneeded stuff like rustproofing or pinstriping, no MENTION of it even. Heck, they talked me out of a couple options that I'd been considering (rear gate bar, differential protector). No advertising costs or hidden fees...
I was out the door for $24,330.60 I don't know if that's good or bad, but I did see the dealer invoice and it looked like they were nearly selling me the car for cost. At any rate, a very pleasant shopping experience. And I drove the exact car I would be buying first. It now has a grand total of 16 miles on it... 10 of which I put on.
I hope to take delivery this week, have to arrange my insurance and payment, since it's coming out of an account that is not in town, but it shouldn't be more than a couple days.
Thats about the same as mine. The low gas warning light has only come on once for me and the gauge was pretty much at "E". Even then you have about 2.6? gallons left. I typically put 12 to 13 gallons in and the needle is between E and 1/4 left.
I just smile and think my old Jimmy would have taken 17 gallons at that point and had the same miles between fills. (20mpg vs 27mpg)
Which color did Cynthia choose? I had my L.L. Bean 4 weeks today. it was a toss-up between white and Timberline Green. I loved them both! But since Timberline Green was their Bean poster girl, I chose it. My husbands 01' OB is sapphire blue, so they almost look like twins, except for the interior colors. My idea would be white with grey interior, but no such thing.
My OBS was white with grey interior. Will I ever get over the loss of my OBS? She was manual and fun, fun, fun! So cute! But fatal side impact ratings(the worst) now after 2002 they are the best in class- go figure! And only average rear occupant crash- My Outback is excellent rear occuopant and Good side impact- plus it has way more leg room in the back for our growing offspring. Her legs smashed up againt the OBS and she is 20 month's old! I did the right thing, but my heart aches for my Little Sister- that was her name. Will I ever get over Impreza fever? I had her for over 3 years and I was still in the new car love stage. I have yet to take a photo of my bean and drive my husband's OB since it is a manual. Any words of wisdom will help me. I can't get a Impreza my husband says since this is our 7th Subaru and no more he says! What have I done?! Heather
Hi All. I read this board daily and have seen lots of good input and advise. I am looking to purchase an Outback and want the H6 option. However I have no interest in leather. Does anyone know if the 2003 models will be coming out with an H6 Outback with cloth interior. I have test driven the Bean and love the H6 but cannot afford the leather. Any help is appreciate. Thanks
canoeist: one thing I read from Subaru was that they don't want you to use that last drop of fuel. The low fuel light goes on with 2.3 gallons left, and they want you to fill it up then, not later. So if the capacity is 16.9 gallons, they're suggesting you use just 14.6 gallons routinely.
Congrats Cynthia, I'm sure it's a great occasion. Hopefully my wife will join you as a new owner tomorrow.
Yeah, what color? What tranny? Did you get the AWP?
Michael: H6 mandates leather, auto, and moonroof, so for now they're pricey, and I don't believe that will change for 2003.
Still, fitzmall.com has an H6 sedan for just $25,299 freight included, and LL Bean wagons for $26,367. You may recall the press was screaming about the H6s costing $33k, but that's because they were VDC models at full retail with no incentives. Prices are much better now.
In fact, I may end up buying one, who knows what the wife will choose.
Thanks to all for the info on the gas gauge. It's good to know that it is working as Subaru planned, and "empty" means another 70 miles at least! After driving this car for four months I am still happy with my choice. I think if I could change anything on it I would make it about 4 inches wider (still seams small to me in the interior width), and maybe more rear leg room and less cargo space. I'm 6' 2" and keep the seat all of the way back. With a comfortable tilt of the seatback I can barely slide my laptop case onto the floor behind the front seat. Nothing's perfect, and after many months of test driving everything under the sun I am sure this car is the best choice for me. Good ride, good gas mileage, an I can put my canoe on top and navigate those dirt trails back to the rivers with ease!
The reason the Legacy is narrrower than eg Accord etc is that Subaru uses the same body as in Japan whereas Honda etc use a different (wider) body for US models. Japan taxes cars using formulas which include size. Unfortunately since SOA only sell 200,000 cars total in the US, it isn't worth having a different body unlike Honda or Toyota who sell, what is it half a million+ Accords or camrys in US!
I chose wintergreen metallic for my color. One dealer had told me they were selling more of the wintergreen than anything else, which is kind of annoying, because it makes one's car less distinctive, however, in my area, there don't seem to be that many Subarus anyway. So hopefully I'll still be able to easily spot my two-tone Outback in a parking lot.
I got the automatic transmission, which is all I drive because a stick would aggravate the tendinitis in my arms. It seems responsive enough to me, though I did notice that it is a bit slow to pick up for passing. But I don't do that much of that, and if I need to, I'm sure I could manually downshift it. I had the option of power and normal (power being quicker to downshift) on my Camry's electronic transmission and I never used it really... just a wee bit for fun when the car was new. So I don't think I'll be as bothered by the auto transmission as some. It should fit right in with my driving style.
I gave the AWP a miss, hopefully I won't need it. It might have been nice, but then again, I'm in CA currently and the money will buy a lot of gas. I'll miss the Camry hatchback on that score I suspect.
Looks like I'll be taking delivery on Thursday, just can't get up to Walnut Creek before then. I can hardly wait!
Oh, and anyone dealing with Diablo Subaru of Walnut Creek, CA, I highly recommend Tom Anderson, a very nice and helpful gentleman.
Join us in the Subaru Crew Owner's Club (link at top of page).
As for your AT in your new subie, it's an adaptive type transmission. It will learn and adjust things based on how you drive it. It also has a 'power' mode that is engaged just by mashing the gas pedal. The 'power' mode stays in a particular gear longer, much like your Camry did. Just don't look for any indication of it being 'on' - they had that feature in older Subies. Also, it may have been slow to downshift with the engine & tranny still being 'green' (new); it should improve as you drive it.
Cynthia: good news - the wintergreen not only looks good, it's easy to keep it looking clean. Also, Subaru's automatics are very robust and arguably more reliable than the 5 speeds.
Congrats. We'll be shopping tonight for my wife's next car.
Wintergreen is nice. It was the color my daughter wanted us to buy last year. We decided on the Winestone (now a classic). Base model with auto, AWP, security, rear bar (love this thing), and CD player. Was in a thunderstorm yesterday on a very twisty, hilly parkway and was very glad to be in the OB. When I got home and my wife asked how the driving was my reply was; "I was in the Subie". Enough said.
Hey Juice you said, "Subaru's automatics are very robust and arguably more reliable than the 5 speeds." What makes you say that? Point me to the data. So the wife gets to pick her Subaru huh?
My name is Heather- We traded my OBS in 4 weeks ago for a L.L. Bean in Timberline green. I felt heart sick for my OBS until today. Today I finally bonded with "my" Green Bean. I quote my since it seems to belong more to the husband then me. It was his choice and he convinced me it would be safer for our offspring then my OBS, which has very poor side impact ratings. I put new tires, Michelin Pilot's, on her today and she rides much better! I thought I'd never get used to the automatic, but I am slowly. It is a very nice powerful car! Step on the gas and you get thrown back into your seat big-time! I am putting a spoiler on her tomorrow. It is $110 at the dealer and $100 to install it.
Anyone else has the H6 Outback? What do you think? It is pure luxury with the leather seats and the Momo streering wheel! The stereo is much better then the standard OB's- even with preminum sound. Anyway, I am adjusting to the loss of my Impreza and bonding to my Green Bean.
Congratulations on your Outback. Just wanted to chime in and let you know that I have a LLB in wintergreen and am very happy with it. I originally wanted the timberline, but my wife talked me in to the wintergreen. I think it blends nice with the two tone, and it doesn't show dirt as much as a darker color would. I don't see too many OB's in Northeastern Ohio, and I have yet to see another in wintergreen!
The ATs on subarus are based on the AT used on the old MPVs and Pathfinders. They are quite durable. Unfortunately the MTs are based on the same design as the ones used in the 1.8l 90hp H4 engines from the early subies.
I think I saw a used Winestone on the lot, gorgeous!
I've also seen a few while driving around in a beautiful blue green.
I wish either of those colors had been available this year! However, I do like the wintergreen and part of the reason I chose it was because I thought it would be the least likely to show dirt.
Since I can't wash my car where I live, that's a big plus! Keeps the expenses down.
I should have the check from my account in Texas and hope to pay for it and pick it up tomorrow. The old Camry turned over that 198,000 mile today, so I got that bit of thrill before I have to part with her.
Looking forward to my Subaru though! (Although the fact that the owner's manual is an INCH thick compared to the 1/4 inch of the Camry manual is a bit daunting!)
I think I'll get along fine with the auto transmission, as you say, it may just take a little time to get used to it. And the gated shifter!
The hard part will be living through the break-in period... but I will be the person doing all of it, I was the first to test drive my vehicle before I bought it! Only 16 miles on the odometer.
I'll take it very easy on her, besides, *I* have to adjust to driving a longer, heavier car. One that doesn't quite whip a U-turn the way I am used to !
I'd looked at a Forester because it was closer to my car in size, but it and I just didn't click like I did with the Outback. Although I still think the Forester is nice, I prefer the room of the Outback, I generally don't like to pile things high and I transport valuable breakables from time to time. And I like a nice highway cruiser, which the Outback seems rather ideal for!
I'll be lucky if I can sleep tonight! Hopefully FedEx will deliver my check bright and early.
By the way, YOUR dream car is MY dream car - H6 GT Wagon w/ 5-spd manual (per profiles).
Now if Subaru would only make such a vehicle! My local dealer tells me they get lots of requests for this engine/trans combo.
Perhaps as alluded to a few posts back, the 5spd was originally used in the 90hp H4's and can't handle torque from the H6 (?). Time to come out with a beefy new 6 spd manual, methinks.
Comments
-juice
-Dave
-mike
I don't think you'll find it in the manual, at least for the '98 manual memory withstanding. But it is definitely on SoA website in 'Subaru Care'.
-Dave
-juice
I've only seen it in the website.
Jim
Thanks!
Patti
To me it sounds like you would be much happier with the GT, even if it has a smaller engine than the Bean. To me the 1 inch higher ride and soft suspension of the Outback only makes sense if you are going to be doing a significant amount of time on very ruff terrain. The 1" is not an issue for snow, only big bumps. I found the handling difference to be immense, and I think this makes the GT much safer! That is good for you AND your family.
Of course a lot of Outback owners will not agree and that is ok, many people do like a soft suspension.
I also have not driven the 6 cylinder engine yet, but I find the YR 2000+ 4 cylinder with a manual to be plenty powerful.
Sten
From what you have written I can tell you will appreciate the GT differences and that with just a 2 minute test drive you will know the answer. I drove the GT, Outback and L back to back repeatedly before making my decision. I ended up going with the L. The reason is because the L handled almost as good as the GT and much better than the Outback. The GT was less available and the L was significantly less money than both the Outback and GT. The money issue doesn't sound like an issue for you, so I would go with the GT.
I am very happy with my L but I may look at changing out the springs for stiffer ones later on.
What we all really need is for Subaru to start selling a model that has an adjustable suspension that would go 1" lower than the GT and L and 1-2" higher than the Outback and would be firmer in the lower position. Then we would all be happy and safer.
Sten
I also don't think you want a 17" wheel if you are going to be driving in snow...for a few reasons. Your tire would most likely have to be wider which would not perform as well on snow and chain clearance would be a problem.
If you are never going to be in snow you might want to look at a different tire. Check out tirerack.com
Sten
(BTW, we also reckoned our 11 year old would likely inherit whatever car we bought, and felt a whole lot better about her driving a Forester than a "sports car". By 2008 our Forester should look very boxy and dull...which is just the sort of car I want her driving!)
YetAnotherDave
Toyota doesn't seem to make much in the way of wagons anymore, I drove a Matrix, liked the brakes, handling OK... hated the ride... very jiggly. I have chronic tendinitis in both arms that is quickly irritated by a bad ride. I also have bad knees and ankles that can get irritated if I have to maintain a lot of pressure on the accelerator.
I have test driven (briefly) a Legacy L, which seemed similar if not considerably better than my Camry and seems to give me even more room for hauling stuff. However, I read in Consumer Reports that the base level Legacy wagon is a mediocre handler.
Which of the Subaru wagons handles and rides the best?
I have a 2001 GT wagon in Titanium Pearl, and I just love this car.
I have owned a multitude of Hondas dating back to 1976, and I would never go back to Honda after this car.
Cheers Pat.
The Outbacks have a slightly softer ride than the sportier GT's and also come with more ground clearance. We opted for the Outback since it came with the AWP (heated cloth seats, wiper deicer, heated mirrors, and LSD differential), the GT's didn't have that in 2000. Although, I really wouldn't have minded all that, I do like the GT wagon as well (my wife got the final vote in for the Outback
Other than that, they're practically identical inside and out. Unless you opt for the H6 - that's only available in the Outback (LL Bean or VDC).
If possible, try test driving one of each (and preferably, more than one drive, different days too). Don't be alarmed by the sticker prices of the H6 Outbacks, even those sell for under sticker nowadays.
-Brian
I thought about a Legacy GT, but it's pricier and I don't want a car with a sunroof, much less 2 of them! If they made it without the sunroofs, I'd be more inclined.
I feel like I'm leaning towards the Outback Base wagon as middle ground between the base Legacy and the GT. You could call me a minimalist... frankly, just the power doorlocks and windows seems extravagantly luxurious to me. (I'm not really sure I'd choose them if I had the option not to!)
I probably will drive both the Legacy L (well, I've already driven it once briefly, dealer didn't give me a long enough workout in it) and the Outback to get a feel for which I like better.
I do however like the center console cupholders! And the retractable cargo cover! And a big plus to whoever designed the slots to put the rear seatbelt fastenings into so they stay in place when you down the seat cushion and fold things flat!
One other question, once out of warranty and not being serviced at a Subaru dealership, do most shops service these cars? I was just wondering, as it seems like shops aren't listing the brand Subaru along with Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan.
You could always outfit auxillary HID driving lights like I did.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?E545245C
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J355225C
-Dave
John
cynthiag,
Depends on what you define as being the "best". The L will probably handle and ride closest to the Camry while the GT will feel a little more taut and sporty. The OB will ride a little higher due to it's beefed up suspension.
While I'm a big fan of the OB and GT, don't forget that the L is a great value vehicle. All three models share the exact same engine, drivetrain and chassis. They only differ with some modifications to the suspension. If you're on a budget, the L is a great vehicle. Also, any "mediocre" handling can be improved easily with new wheels and tires and a fatter sway bar.
Ken
The second dealer made all kinds of promises about letting me take one out by myself for half hour to an hour and then when I showed up today for a test drive as I'd told him I would, suddenly the policy changed, and I was stuck with a short test drive, this time with a salesman yammering at me about how I couldn't take too long as he'd be losing commissions. Well, I couldn't get that car back soon enough with that going on in my ears! Again, I wasn't entirely comfortable, just hadn't had enough time to get used to the vehicle.
I then promptly drove on to the next dealership, in Walnut Creek, where they had no qualms at all about me taking both a Legacy L and Outback out for a spin. I went further in the Outback.
It may just be me, but everything felt better in the Outback. The brake pedal seemed less mushy, the steering smoother, the ride nicer... I felt happy as I started to get used to the higher driving position! The way one should feel about the car one is going to buy.
I plan to return tomorrow and see what kind of deal they can give me. Hopefully, soon I'll be a Subaru owner! The other dealers should get a clue, no pressure at Diablo Subaru... when I said I was only test driving today, they respected that and didn't bug me.
My take, on paper, is as follows:
L: a bargain. "Base" in this case still has 4 wheel disc brakes, AWD, ABS, PS/PW/PL, and cruise. Add keyless and a CD, and it almost seems loaded. I'm considering an L, then I'd buy a set of take-off WRX rims and tires.
GT: nice thing is it's all packaged for you. Moonroof is something we like, but why oh why no heated seats? If it had them, it would be our choice. I know the 2003 gets heated leather, but the price no doubt will go up.
OB AWP: the AWP is so cheap it's worth it to me, and you get heated cloth for year-round comfort. The OB gets a few extras the GT doesn't, and it's cheaper. Loses the moonroof, that's probably why.
So I sell our 626 tomorrow, go car shopping Wednesday. We're going to sample them all, probably. I may even toss an LL Bean into the mix, just to cover all the bases. $26k for H6, auto, heated two-tone leather, alloys, 4 discs with ABS, AWD, cruise, keyless, CD, wood, and 2 moonroofs? We priced a Highlander with the same equipment - be ready to spend $6 grand more.
I loved the 2003 Forester I saw live at the NY Show, but it seems silly to buy two of the same car, and besides the wife wants a bigger back seat. But we may look at one once they arrive.
-juice
I noticed that you're also from the Bay Area. It might be a bit of a haul for you but try either Carlsen Subaru (Redwood City) or Santa Cruz Subaru. Both are no-pressure dealerships that let you test drive without a yapping salesperson. They also feature flat pricing of a few hundred over dealer invoice. I highly recommend either one.
Ken
Hi, I just read your postings this morning and by now you may already be the proud and ecstatic owner of a new Subaru. My previous car was a 1990 Toyota Corolla wagon with 146,000 miles that had never given me any grief. My boyfriend has a Toyota truck so we are big Toyota fans. However, until the 2003 Matrix, Toyota has not been making wagons, opting instead to have FIVE Suvs in its lineup. So I had to "resign" myself to a Subaru when I started looking for a new car.
Well, two months ago I bought a 2002 base Outback wagon and couldn't be happier. I love this car! I love how it is the perfect height to slide into - you don't have to step up or lower yourself down. It dives so smoothly and quietly. The doors close so solidly, and it feels so "beefy" and so much safer than my Corolla. Yes, and great cup holders!
We drove the Outback and the Forester back-to-back which is a great thing to do for comparison - don't even wait until the next day, you won't be able to remember how each one feels. The Outback won out because it was quieter (maybe the boxiness of the Forester causes it to be noisier), it had more leg room especially in the back and also more cargo space.
We also had a great buying experience with a salesperson we liked and who let us try whatever we wanted. So, if you feel pressure or general bad energy from a dealer, find another one. They should be doing something to convince you to give them all that money...
Good luck and have fun,
Kim
I traded in my 1999 OBS 4 weeks ago today for a L.L. Bean Outback. Can't get used to the automatic, but I sure got used to the extra spunk, the leather seats, the excellent stereo!
I gave up on the GT urge, since I like our Outback's a lot and with these tires it really helps!
What other mini mods can I do to improve performance? A KN filter? Or what?
Thanks, Heather
I'd get some track time, maybe try autocross one weekend, or a Friday at the Track event (FATT). Even something like Bob Bondurant would be a hoot.
A few of us Subie owners and Town Hall regulars went to a BMW Ultimate Driving Event, where we could drive around a track lined with cones. Our times were good compared to the group, definitely all in the quicker half, but even our quickest times (1:21-1:22) was a full two seconds off the pace of the instructors (1:19). I bet even if I had 20 extra horsepower the instructors still would have beat me. I need more practice.
Plus, it's fun, and it transfers over to any car you drive! :-)
-juice
thanks in advance
Mike k
Options: (CD player, air filtration, car alarm)
I'd have to say I have been VERY HAPPY with Diablo Subaru in Walnut Creek, CA so far. Great test drive policy, very laid back, no pressure, no talking you into unneeded stuff like rustproofing or pinstriping, no MENTION of it even. Heck, they talked me out of a couple options that I'd been considering (rear gate bar, differential protector). No advertising costs or hidden fees...
I was out the door for $24,330.60 I don't know if that's good or bad, but I did see the dealer invoice and it looked like they were nearly selling me the car for cost. At any rate, a very pleasant shopping experience. And I drove the exact car I would be buying first. It now has a grand total of 16 miles on it... 10 of which I put on.
I hope to take delivery this week, have to arrange my insurance and payment, since it's coming out of an account that is not in town, but it shouldn't be more than a couple days.
I can't wait!
-Brian
I just smile and think my old Jimmy would have taken 17 gallons at that point and had the same miles between fills.
(20mpg vs 27mpg)
--jay
I had my L.L. Bean 4 weeks today. it was a toss-up between white and Timberline Green. I loved them both! But since Timberline Green was their Bean poster girl, I chose it. My husbands 01' OB is sapphire blue, so they almost look like twins, except for the interior colors. My idea would be white with grey interior, but no such thing.
My OBS was white with grey interior. Will I ever get over the loss of my OBS? She was manual and fun, fun, fun! So cute! But fatal side impact ratings(the worst) now after 2002 they are the best in class- go figure! And only average rear occupant crash- My Outback is excellent rear occuopant and Good side impact- plus it has way more leg room in the back for our growing offspring. Her legs smashed up againt the OBS and she is 20 month's old! I did the right thing, but my heart aches for my Little Sister- that was her name. Will I ever get over Impreza fever? I had her for over 3 years and I was still in the new car love stage. I have yet to take a photo of my bean and drive my husband's OB since it is a manual. Any words of wisdom will help me. I can't get a Impreza my husband says since this is our 7th Subaru and no more he says! What have I done?!
Heather
I am sure you wiil completely happy with your new car.
Cheers Pat.
Thanks
Congrats Cynthia, I'm sure it's a great occasion. Hopefully my wife will join you as a new owner tomorrow.
Yeah, what color? What tranny? Did you get the AWP?
Michael: H6 mandates leather, auto, and moonroof, so for now they're pricey, and I don't believe that will change for 2003.
Still, fitzmall.com has an H6 sedan for just $25,299 freight included, and LL Bean wagons for $26,367. You may recall the press was screaming about the H6s costing $33k, but that's because they were VDC models at full retail with no incentives. Prices are much better now.
In fact, I may end up buying one, who knows what the wife will choose.
-juice
I got the automatic transmission, which is all I drive because a stick would aggravate the tendinitis in my arms. It seems responsive enough to me, though I did notice that it is a bit slow to pick up for passing. But I don't do that much of that, and if I need to, I'm sure I could manually downshift it. I had the option of power and normal (power being quicker to downshift) on my Camry's electronic transmission and I never used it really... just a wee bit for fun when the car was new. So I don't think I'll be as bothered by the auto transmission as some. It should fit right in with my driving style.
I gave the AWP a miss, hopefully I won't need it. It might have been nice, but then again, I'm in CA currently and the money will buy a lot of gas. I'll miss the Camry hatchback on that score I suspect.
Looks like I'll be taking delivery on Thursday, just can't get up to Walnut Creek before then. I can hardly wait!
Oh, and anyone dealing with Diablo Subaru of Walnut Creek, CA, I highly recommend Tom Anderson, a very nice and helpful gentleman.
As for your AT in your new subie, it's an adaptive type transmission. It will learn and adjust things based on how you drive it. It also has a 'power' mode that is engaged just by mashing the gas pedal. The 'power' mode stays in a particular gear longer, much like your Camry did. Just don't look for any indication of it being 'on' - they had that feature in older Subies. Also, it may have been slow to downshift with the engine & tranny still being 'green' (new); it should improve as you drive it.
Enjoy your new subie!
-Brian
Congrats. We'll be shopping tonight for my wife's next car.
-juice
Greg
My name is Heather- We traded my OBS in 4 weeks ago for a L.L. Bean in Timberline green. I felt heart sick for my OBS until today. Today I finally bonded with "my" Green Bean. I quote my since it seems to belong more to the husband then me. It was his choice and he convinced me it would be safer for our offspring then my OBS, which has very poor side impact ratings. I put new tires, Michelin Pilot's, on her today and she rides much better! I thought I'd never get used to the automatic, but I am slowly. It is a very nice powerful car! Step on the gas and you get thrown back into your seat big-time! I am putting a spoiler on her tomorrow. It is $110 at the dealer and $100 to install it.
Anyone else has the H6 Outback? What do you think? It is pure luxury with the leather seats and the Momo streering wheel! The stereo is much better then the standard OB's- even with preminum sound. Anyway, I am adjusting to the loss of my Impreza and bonding to my Green Bean.
Heather
-mike
I've also seen a few while driving around in a beautiful blue green.
I wish either of those colors had been available this year! However, I do like the wintergreen and part of the reason I chose it was because I thought it would be the least likely to show dirt.
Since I can't wash my car where I live, that's a big plus! Keeps the expenses down.
I should have the check from my account in Texas and hope to pay for it and pick it up tomorrow. The old Camry turned over that 198,000 mile today, so I got that bit of thrill before I have to part with her.
Looking forward to my Subaru though! (Although the fact that the owner's manual is an INCH thick compared to the 1/4 inch of the Camry manual is a bit daunting!)
The hard part will be living through the break-in period... but I will be the person doing all of it, I was the first to test drive my vehicle before I bought it! Only 16 miles on the odometer.
I'll take it very easy on her, besides, *I* have to adjust to driving a longer, heavier car. One that doesn't quite whip a U-turn the way I am used to !
I'd looked at a Forester because it was closer to my car in size, but it and I just didn't click like I did with the Outback. Although I still think the Forester is nice, I prefer the room of the Outback, I generally don't like to pile things high and I transport valuable breakables from time to time. And I like a nice highway cruiser, which the Outback seems rather ideal for!
I'll be lucky if I can sleep tonight! Hopefully FedEx will deliver my check bright and early.
Heather
2001 Outback in Deep Sapphire Blue and 2002 L.L. Bean in Timberline Green
Belated congratulation(s) on your fleet =D
Always liked the Deep Sapphire Blue Pearl.
Never offered in the Limited
-Dave
By the way, YOUR dream car is MY dream car - H6 GT Wagon w/ 5-spd manual (per profiles).
Now if Subaru would only make such a vehicle! My local dealer tells me they get lots of requests for this engine/trans combo.
Perhaps as alluded to a few posts back, the 5spd was originally used in the 90hp H4's and can't handle torque from the H6 (?). Time to come out with a beefy new 6 spd manual, methinks.