Subaru Legacy/Outback

postmodern

David,

Did you get your Hakk 1's studded? I just got a set of Hakk 2's for SueBee. They're prestudded, newly available in the US, and make me think of Jaws with braces!. I'll be able to check them out tomorrow on the drive into work -- the Hudson Valley is in the midst of a blizzard at the moment. The latest call is for 7-10" of snow covering the ice left by the earlier sleet and freezing rain this AM. I thought that 'White Christmas' meant that we would wake up to snow left by an overnight storm, not having to be awake though the blizzard!

Have a Safe and Happy Holiday everyone!

Lyn

dash10

I was seriously considering buying an outback with the 4cyl AT because it seemed to be a very versatile vehicle. However after reading the Jd Power reviews I am reconsidering. I have always heard good things about the outback. Any insight on why Jd powers is so harsh on the Outback? Specifically build quality, reliabilty, interior materials, performance. They seem to like the forester which if I'm not mistaken has the same Drive train.

cptplt

who knows what their problem is - besides sending me surveys for initial quality on new cars which I managed to fill in wrongly!

Consumers Reports has always had favorable reviews of the Legacy/Outback and in the last car reliability survey, Subaru tied Toyota for first place and was ahead of Honda.
Don't buy an Outback, buy a Legacy GT, much more fun to drive than the OB!

mzim1

About 10 days ago we were driving our 1998 Outback at 65 mph on the interstate with excellent weather and road conditions when suddenly my wife who was driving tells me she can not control the front wheels. They were going to the right-left-right etc. until we drifted to the left shoulder where we overturned repeatedly as we went down an embankment. She told the investigators that it was as if the steering wheel was not attached to the wheel mechanism. The insurance company is investigated and assumes it was some kind of mechanical failure. I take great care of my car with routine maintenance and yearly state inspections. I also have had it in for the recalls We had 60,000+ miles when the accident happened. If it was a blowout we did not hear anything (My Cooper tires had 8,000 miles on them). I always liked the car and was considering purchasing a new model until the accident. The construction of the body and the crumble zones saved our lives. But the question I have is -- Did a mechanical failure cause the accident? Any insight would be appreciated.

david55838

Hi Lyn,

No I didn't get them studded. Between all wheel drive, and the regular Hakks, I'm thinking that's enough. Plus, we haven't had any snow to speak of here yet.

David

bravadajon

A big snow in St. Louis for Christmas Eve....6 to 16 inches North to South...punny by Mountain standards but big for us.

The 03 Outback Wagon did excellent in the snow/ice, but the heated windshield wiper deicer was sort of wimpy...still got some ice build up on the wipers. I cranked up the heat on the defroster and opened the driver window a tad to keep cool. I had the defroster on entirely.

This was a heavy snow...I am sure the heated windshield helped, but it was not the total solution. I still had to do the infamous wiper snap maneuver to knock off the ice of the blades...I know, I could break the windshield. Maybe I should try that deicer wiper fluid too? How do you Subie fans in serious snow country handle this problem?

declansdad

Thank goodness that you and your wife are OK. I'm sorry to hear about your accident. I've never heard of any steering failure as you have described. See if your insurance company will have a mechanic "go-over" your car to find out what went wrong. If not, I would call SOA and see if they could have a master mechanic look at the vehicle.

IMHO, SOA should be very interested about your unfortunate situation!

Michael

paisan

Glad everyone is ok in the accident. It seems odd to me unless something happened where the steering knuckle came undone somehow. Very odd, I'd definitely be interested to see what the mechincal diagnosis of the car is.

-mike

idahodoug

It would be foolish of anyone to respond to your post regarding what went wrong - pure speculation with the complete lack of info provided. I also find it odd that you mention you don't think it was a blowout, yet you make no comment on whether all four tires were still intact and pressurized after the crash - a seemingly obvious omission. Best of luck to you and I'm glad there were no injuries owing to the Legacy's excellent structural design.

IdahoDoug

montreal1

What I've been using for the last 10 years is the "winter" wiper model (completely covered with rubber). There is even one now with teflon on the blade itself. On a car w/o the wiper heater (2002 RS), this as been working great, as it did also on a 91 & 95 Legacy.

Cheers !!

bigelm

Sorry about your unfortunate situation. I would also like to know the outcome of the mechanical diagnosis... then whoever it is, smack them with a fat lawsuit! Your lawyer should be notified on this, so he/she can be aware of what steps to take in case someone doesn't take blame.

Good luck!

lakepop

Yikes.....we are all glad that you got through that without injury. Cannot imagine how that would feel to be cruising on a nice smooth straight highway at a legal speed and all of a sudden have zero steering control. You certainly need to have this investigated...especially since you said it was NOT a blow out.
Good luck with some legal action once you get the definitve results and once again glad you got through this without injury.

zman3

Bravadajohn:

I have a 98 Outback and the heated wipers are the one feature that I find to be a total farce. I don't think there is a heck of a lot you can do other than maybe winter blades, like montreal1 said.

eric102

I always thought the heating elements in the windshield were to keep the wipers from freezing to the windshield in the park position, not to keep ice from building up on them while in use. Am I wrong? Do some of you actually have heated wipers?

Eric

subearu

Subaru lists it as 'windshield-wiper de-icer'. Haven't had much chance to use 'em this year, but last year I was able to.

The element in the glass heats the area under the wipers. I think it mainly does a good job of keeping the wipers flexible. The arms will still accumulate snow/ice. Seems that the area with the deicer also tends to not accumulate the snow/ice that the wipers collect.

-Brian

zman3

Maybe heated wipers was a poor choice of words. I don't recall what Subaru calls the feature. I had hoped that it would reduce ice build up on the blades but maybe it was only intended to keep the blades from freezing to the windshield. But if that is the case it is still a less than stellar feature. When will blades tend to freeze to the windshield? After is sits for a while. The heated strip won't do anything to prevent that. Once you clean the windshield off and start the wipers I can't believe they would ever freeze or stick. My main issue is snow and ice buildup under the blades and the feature does nothing to help out, IMHO.

paisan

IMHO it will prevent ice buildup at the bottom of the windshield which could prevent the wipers from going back to their normal position. Also often times you'll have them stit on the ice and re-freeze to the window during a long trip. Nothing the defogger couldn't handle though.

-mike

dukephoto

I work in the used auto parts industry and sell wiper motor cores to rebuilders.
The biggest cause of wiper failure in the winter is when the wiper freezes to the windshield or is covered in snow, and some idiot doesn't clean the window BEFORE trying to use the wiper motor. They try to use the wiper to clear the windshield. They turn on the motor, it can't move, and the motor burns out.
It's great for business though.
The wiper de-icer allows the ice under the wiper blade to melt, that's all. You still want to clear the windshield of any snow, the motor isn't made to move that kind of weight anyway.

Dukephoto
2001 VDC
39,000 miles in 15 months

xccoachlou

As I was scraping ice off from my windshield, underneath of, around, and under the wipers, I thought of how wonderful windshield wiper de-icers really are.

When I begin the tedious process of cleaning snow off my car, I start the car as soon as possible, let it warm up while starting the defroster and defogger. The De-icer would be, pardon the pun, icing on the cake.

I was also thinking that the OB has a lot more ground clearance than my present car which means a lot less shoveling to do to get out from city streets.

All of a sudden, Florida looks like a real nice place...

grahampeters

G'day

Guess we will all be fascinated in the detail of the accident given that you are listed as a Pontiac owner and another post shows you have been researching a Honda purchase for a time. Not a troll, by any chance?

Cheers

Graham

rsholland

I've had the opportunity to use that feature this year on our Forester. While it doesn't completely eliminate ice build up on the wipers, it certainly does slow the process a great deal. It's definitely a worthwhile feature. It only works for 15 minutes at a time, as it's on a timer, however.

Bob

bigelm

worked for me... we got hit on Christmas day with 6-9 inches of heavy, wet snow. Then in the evening towards night, it got brick cold. Taking off the snow and ready to drive off in the OB, ice already started to accumlate around the wiper area. I activated the de-icer and though some ice remained on the wiper arm, the wiper worked just fine and was flexible enough to clear the snow and 'white' water residue from the streets as we drove home.

Yes, it has a 15 min. timer, but it doesn't bother me to press it again in case ice starts to accumulate again ;-) Very nice feature!

The OB just laughed at the snow storm :-)

rsholland

I wish all my cars had the deicer feature.

Bob

wired1

Hi,

I have a brother and nephew visiting from Atlanta telling me that a K&N air filter will improve fuel efficiency and horsepower. I checked today at Advance and it seems that the available filter is for the 4 cyl. engine. Does any one know if this particular filter will fit the 3.0 6 cyl. engine? Are there any potential warranty issues associated with the use of this filter?

Thanks in advance.

Tom, Pittburgh

pasdeclef

I have a '97 Outback with almost 54k miles on it. In October, it stranded me with what turned out to be a bad fuel pump. Had it replaced ($447) and a month later, the SECOND one stranded me. Got it replaced for free, but had to wait for the tow truck two hours in the cold, on my birthday. SO...no more Subaru's. Period.

Now it gets complicated. I would like a similar vehicle (or pure SUV), with the following specs:

AWD
heated seats
above average (or better) reliability
compact (no more than 5 seat capacity)

Neither the CR-V nor the RAV-4 has heated seats, as best I can determine, and the Mazda has terrible reliability problems. I'd rather not go up to a Highlander or RX300, because the vehicle will sit on the street after its first year (long story).

Even went to the DC auto show yesterday, but all it did was confuse me. The new Murano and QX45 (or something like that, anyway the new Infiniti SUV) are *grossly* overpriced (IMHO) in the upper 30's to mid 40's. Can't have that kind of metal sitting on the street.

Would appreciate someone pointing me in a new direction.

Gary

xplorx4

Gary- I noticed that fuel economy was not a factor. You might wish to consider a used Nissan Pathfinder (2001+). The LE models have a very reliable AWD system and heated leather seats. I own a 1997 Pathfinder LE, and I've participated in the Pathfinder Owners Forums here on edmunds for several years. The biggest complaints I hear are: bad gas mileage, inaccurate outside temp display, and bottoming out suspension when heavily loaded. It may be worth checking out if you don't mind the added size (mid-size SUV vs mini-ute/wagon).

nygreg

Just installed one on my H4 OB. Seems to run a little smoother with a little more pick up. Sorry, no real data to show. Still need to burn another tank or 2 before I can compare mileage improvement. Should not void warranty. Try PerformanceCenter.com. This is where I purchased mine. Got one for my Sienna too (Not installed yet).

Greg

mtngal

There is a discussion here on Edmunds that compares a bunch of the smaller SUVs and occasionally the midsize ones. I can't remember what it is called, but if you do a search for Forester or Santa Fe it will come up (both are mentioned in the title of the discussion). People have brought out the strong points and weak points of a number vehicles, and how one might fit you but not someone else. Good luck with your choice!

stever

I think you're thinking of the Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute vs Saturn Vue discussion. Sometimes a few other models sneak in there but the discussion title is too long as it is!

Steve, Host

mzim1

I was the person whose car lost its steering. The insurance company has flat bedded the car to their inspection garage where they have told me they are going to investigate the cause of the accident. Someone asked about the condition of the tires after the accident. I noticed that the front passenger tire had separated from the wheel rim. I was so confused and in shock at that time that I did not further examine the tire. The structure of the Subaru probably saved us from injuries but without knowing it was a mechanical failure I don't think I could purchase another Outback. I do own a Pontiac and I believe we will be purchasing an Accord. I will keep you posted on the results of the investigation. "Safe driving to all -- buckle up"

hypov

Mike (mzim1)-
it's a shame that you couldn't have faith in Subaru. Even after your '98 OB demonstrated and achieved its primary goal, protect.

Mechanical failure,... let us know of the Insurance's finding(s).

Good Luck

-Dave

mtngal

Thanks for putting up the link - that's the discussion I was thinking of. And yes, it definitely covers more vehicles than those mentioned. I've found it very interesting and useful. My only problem is that I've made up my mind about 6 different times, then someone brings up a new model I hadn't thought about and there I go again!

cptplt

seems you have no choice but to go with a Toyota(Lexus) or Honda (Acura) product since reliability must be better if not equal to a Subaru. In the latest CR report, Honda got beat out by Subaru who tied Toyota for top stop.

dougb10

So you want to dump your Subaru Outback because of two lousy fuel pumps. Are you sure the installation was correct when the first one was installed? Did you have any other problems with the Outback? My wife's '97 Outback Limited is now almost 6 years old (admittedly it has only 52,000 kms. or about 31,000 miles on it), but it has been a real treasure and she wants to keep it forever.
I am thinking of replacing my '99 Toyota Sienna XLE (116,000 kms)with a new 6 cylinder Outback to be a two Subie family.
Someone has suggested a Saab 9-5 as a replacement for you. If you want to become best buddy with the Saab service department, that is a good bet. Also increase your line of credit on your VISA card because Saab parts are priced way up there>

Good luck in your search...sorry to hear that it messed up your birthday!

magchase

2001 LLBean Outback
Put into service October, 2001
Front rotors turned at 1500 miles (warped)
Back rotors turned at 8100 miles (last week) (warped)
Both of these corrections were covered by the warranty but the dealer rep informs me that no future repairs will be honored because this type of repair is a once and done under warranty and the last 8100 repair was a "goodwill" gesture by Subaru because of lower mileage.
Whatever happened to the 3/36 coverage? I see nothing in the warranty booklet indicating a once and done for wear items. Is this a hidden warranty "scam" which surfaces after your sales rep brags about the 3/36 to "seal the deal?"
I mention to the service rep that this is my wife's car and she certainly doesn't abuse a vehicle. He says the "cautious" drivers can actually cause premature wear (brakes, rotors). She's been driving for almost 30 years and we've never had a problem like this before. My response was that that comment is a cover-up for poor quality rotors. No response except to re-mention that this is the last work on the rotors under warranty.
Is this a problem with Outback rotors? And...is this an accurate warranty assessment?
Thanks!

jlemole

Following up on my leaky o-ring. Got my 02 OBW (19k miles) back from dealer on Tuesday with new oil pump o-ring and new crankshaft seal. Everything looks good so far.

While at the dealer, I also picked up an acrylic hood deflector and installed it myself last night. Looks sweeeet, especially against the timberline green.

Jon

megawatt1

I am looking for recommendations for tire replacement. I have a '00 Outback Wagon, 41K miles, with about 5/32" tread left on the original Firestone Wilderness tires. I have always thought this vehicle was very prone to hydroplaning and now with 1/2 the tire tread worn, it is much worse. Also, while the AWD works great for acceleration, stopping and turning on snow could be better.

I would like to hear some suggestions and comments about what brand/model of tires other owners have had experience with.

Thanks,
Ralph

nygreg

My front rotors were warped when I received the car new. They replaced them with new ones. Last April with about 20K miles on them, I had to bring it in for warped rotors. They turned them and said the warranty was good for a year. Well, they are warped again (Just slightly) and I have an appointment for Tuesday. When I set up the appointment, they were very nice about fixing it under the warranty. I asked for new ones to be installed. We'll see. FWIW, my 92 Camry which is my gold standard for reliability also had to have the rotors replaced every 30-40K miles.

As for tires, I installed the Dunlop Sport A2s. Very pleased with the tires with the exception of turning on snow covered roads. However, they are all season tires. Driving during the worst part of the Christmas storm (13"+) the car with the Dunlops did fine. To truly get the best out of your OB though, you should consider dedicated snow tires. I might get them next year.

Greg

svcraig

I also put Dunlop Sport A2s on my Subie (97 GT Sedan). I noticed a huge improvement in noise and dry cornering. Have felt very comfortable driving around city & hwy in the recent rainstorms here in SF bay area. I haven't tried them in the snow as nygreg has but so far am very pleased and definitely recommend them.

kturner1

If you're having warped rotor problems, you might check your lugnut torque. They should only be 58 to 72 ft*lbs, per my 01 Legacy manual. I set mine at 80 since it's easy to see on my torque wrench. I know some get twisted on MUCH tighter. I've got 15,000 not-cautious miles on my rotors and they are still straight. I don't think Subaru rotors are any worse than any others. Or fuel pumps either.

bigelm

The 'one and only' service deal is a load of crap!

They cannot deny warranty service if it's still under warranty. If I were you, I'd call Subaru and create a claim against the dealer and explain to them the situation and what the dealer told you. Subaru covers your rotors under the 3/36 months warranty. Tell them you're not comfortable with their service either and you're considering going somewhere else.

That way, they have a record of this, so if they ever get warped again, Subaru will be aware of this and you'll be good to go. But call Subaru regardless, you need a record of the service provided or lack of.

originalbitman

My 01 GT wagon has 31k on it and no sign of warped rotors. I torque the wheels myself. Got new RE950s a month ago (love em) but checked the torque right after the tire shop installed them.

bit

nygreg

are torqued to 75 ft/lbs. by me, even after servicing by a garage.

Greg

xccoachlou

Are the OB rear seats at a slightly elevated above the level of the front seats?

- Lou

ohsubie

I have 44k on my 01 Outback and no problems. When you have the service order written up to get your tires rotated insist they use the "Yellow" torque stick. This one is for 72 pounds. When they reach the torque rating of the stick, it won't turn the nut any tighter.
It to is time for new shoes for the Outback, I am leaning towards the Nokian NRW. I read the article in Consumers Reports, now for real people reports.

ladywclass

either I got the best '01 Outback built or the service dept at the dealer is top-notch.... I have had none of the problems discussed in here with rotors etc .. and trust me I've had cars with those problems before!
I have all the recommended services done by the dealer .. which the b/f sometimes sees as a 'waste of $$' but it's MY car and MY $$ .. lol

nematode

City:
Drive around Pittsburgh (hills) with 4 adults and a bunch of stuff in the back. I got 15 and 16 mpg on winter fuel.

Highway:
Strap a Thule Excursion cargo carrier, 2 adults, 1 dog, and a whole lot of stuff inside and drive over 70mph. I got 19 mpg 5 times in a row driving a constant 75mph.

sebberry

Hi there,

Recently picked up my new '03 Outback H6. I am really liking it so far.

I have noticed that braking performance on dry roads seems a little poor. Maybe it is just my perception, seeing how this car is over 1000 pounds heavier than my previous car, but does anyone else get this feeling? The ABS does work well on icy roads, I'll give it that.

My second question is regarding aftermarket security systems.

I would like to integrate into the existing keyless entry system and keep the same key fob. I would also like to have a starter kill function on it, as well as the usual assortment of flashing lights to really embarass the thief.

If anybody has a recommendation to which system would fit the bill, please let me know on this board.

Thanks,

A happy Outback owner. (I still need to name the car, any ideas?)

sibbald

I wouldn't be too hard on the brakes, especially on dry roads until the rotors and pads wear in.

I think it is worth spending the little extra money to go for a factory install on your security system. This way, you will have all of the functions you are interested in and they work flawlessly.

Tom

paisan

Look at:

Isuzu Axiom
Kia Sorento

Both are relatively in-expensive (~25K)
Isuzus (especially the drivetrain in the Axiom) is bulletproof.
And they have an outstanding AWD system.

-mike