Subaru Legacy/Outback

kullenberg

re: Nokian tires; check out the Nokian WR's, they are a replacement for the NRW's, and are winter rated. This link will give a quick look at the available sizes - click on Nokian on the left side of the site; http://www.etires.com/

Cheers

Pat

friendly_jacek

I remember hearing on Car Talk that warped rotors can be also caused by rapid cooling (car wash after hard driving, poodles of water, etc.).
In my previous cars (datsun, nissan, mazda) the rotors went bad on the 100,000 miles mark. So far so good at 37,000 miles in my 2000 Legacy.
BTW, I thought rotors were wear and tear items with 12 months/12000 miles warranty. Not sure though.

Somebody above complained about poor braking in snow. Cars with ABS are notorious for loooong braking in snow. Unless you have very good winter tires (i guess). Innitially I did not believe this until I tried myself and compared ABS with non-ABS cars in deep snow (both with "multi-season" tires).

Cheers

sirfile

To sebberry / Post #7234:

How about OBonecanOB ?

nygreg

See my update in OB problems board. In short, the pulsing was hot spots. Covered under warranty.

Greg

sebberry

Now that I have my new Outback H6, I am searching to no avail for websites that have information on "offroading with Subarus"

Does anyone know of any sites that contain photos of people with their Outbacks?

I can find sites with Jeeps, but I want somwthing like that for the Subaru. Obviously I don't want to be as rough on it as a Jeep owner would be on their Jeep, but I need to impress a doubtful friend somehow.

Thank's for your ideas...

Sirfile - post 7239: Good name, but a little hard to say.

grahampeters

G'day

Try having a look at this site for some idea of off-road trips with Subarus. However, bigots rarely change their views so you may be wasting your time.

http://www.subaclub.com/

Cheers

Graham

stever

Isn't it already well into 2003 there Graham? You must be posting while partying. Happy New Year!

Steve, Host

grahampeters

G'day

It is midday on New Years day here in Oz and I am slowly waking up. Let's not push the hangover question too hard, shall we say...

Cheers

Graham

rsholland

Who said Subies can't go off road!?! Check out some of those photos!

Great link Graham. Thanks!

Bob

sebberry

Thanks for the link.

It does give me some ideas, but no real relevent information on 2000+ Outbacks.

I will keep trying.

I would start an Outback Offroad Club in my city, but primarily older people who have no intentions on driving on unfamiliar paved roads, let alone in offroad conditions have been the ones buying Outbacks...

Oh well..

I did wash my OB at a friends house, and instead of moving the car from the lawn to the driveway, I just went over the small ditch in front of the lawn. He was watching and said later he couldn't stop laughing when my back wheel came off the ground.

I couldn't stop frowning when I found ditch mud on my front bumper when I got home

If only my 1990 Legacy wagon had AWD. I'd be installing a lift and nice bumper guards for the back country. Oh well. Need to sell it to pay for some of the OB.

Bye for now and Happy New Year!

bravadajon

I have the 3.0HD Outback LL Bean Wagon. I find myself using the 3rd gear more frequently lately. Third gear is great for breaking down some local hills and I like it to get on the highway...gives me more acceleration than drive. I shift to drive when I reach 55-60.

This type of shifting pattern should not harm the tranny?

Thanks for the input.

Another round of 10"'+ snow for St. Louis tonight,,,,can't wait to get the Subie out there.

paisan

I do the same thing with my 3.3l H6 SVX. It's fine to do to prevent excessive shifting in hilly areas.

-mike

paisan

In a few weeks I'll have my site http://isuzu-suvs.com back up and in there I have tons of pics of 2000+ outbacks offroading. Bat1161 on here comes to the pine barrens with us frequently with his OB.

-mike

otis123

I had my 2001 LLBean's front rotors turned at 10K and my front pads AND front rotors replaced at 20K. Still braking smooth as butter as they approach the 36K milestone.

I was told the rotors had "hot spots" = defective metal in the rotor - all covered under warranty.

BTW, the only problem so far...

Ralph

i_love_mazda

refering to post #7236 where paisan said look at:

Isuzu Axiom

I say proceed w/ caution if purchasing an Isuzu. Probably the best bang for your buck, but some say they aren't long for the US auto market.

http://www.visteon.com/newsroom/autoline/2002/111502.shtml

Great vehicles, poor marketing.

nygreg

They replaced my left head gasket(s) and with it a coolant change and oil change. They also took care of my rotors by installing new ones in front and resurfaced the rear. What impressed me was that they installed all new pads for me too - all under warranty at 33K. For $144 total, they changed my tranny and diffy fluids and installed new Bosch plugs. I think it was more than fair. So far I am impressed with the work. We'll see. With another storm coming tomorrow, I asked them if I can get the car back tonight and they were able to accomodate me. Very pleased.

Greg

ffsteve

While I can't top those photos of the Queensland Subaru club, I've taken my Bean into the desert a few times now. A favorite spot is in a vehicle recreation area (dirt bikes, 4x4s, and Jeeps) where one can drive anywhere - there are no roads. The surface ranges from deep loose sand to a compacted sand and gravel base. The Bean swims a bit in the loose sand, but I've never had a problem. This first shot is of our camp in this area.

In the same area, there is a road that follows a wash to a lookout. The sand in the wash is finer than in the recreational area, and deeper, but again the Bean has no difficulties there. This shot is of the parking area at the end. Notice the dealer tag on the front of the car, less than a month old on this trip!

Next time I go, I'll try for some action shots.

Steve

nygreg

Great shots. Love the mountains in the background on the 2nd one. My OB is envious of the cleanliness of yours (lots of snow here). BTW, don't think the Jeep should take on that bolder.

Greg

otis123

Really nice photos. The first one looks like it came from a Subaru brochure!

Ralph

b10609

Sebberry: Just back on line to see your final price - looks like a solid deal. Presume you had this deal from the Victoria dealer ? My daughter's 1995 Legacy is called INBACK by the family because it's one of the last FWD's built for Canada - not to be taken for outback use - strictly a commuter! Your chosen color is much better than black if you get down and dirty with back roads. How about naming it the GREENBACK...Waterloo

ffsteve

The first photo makes the car look cleaner than it really was (is). The Pearl White color hides the dirt just fine. Even now after we've had a little rain already this winter I haven't washed the car for a month or two and it still looks clean.

Bottom photo was taken in July/August, it was about 110 degrees. The 5 mile drive through the loose sand and gravel was made in air-conditioned luxury with the CD playing (didn't skip a beat). Talk about pampered.

Love the car. I made a round trip north of LA this holiday, made 27 mpg with 3 persons in the car at speeds ranging from stop-n-go to about 85 (mostly in the 75-80 range).

Steve

jfl

White cars look OK until someone brushes against it. THEN you realize how dirty it is.

Jim
'00 White Legacy

dszigan

Hi all--- I'm another newbie subie owner ('99 O/B Ltd with 90,000), the problem I have is that the sliding covers on the front sunroof is very hard to slide, and the rear is stuck. Anybody else ever experience this and what it took to fix them? Thanks (yet another Dave)

mrk610

I.m probably shoting my self in the foot for saying this . I have a 02 obw with just over 20k on it and the brakes are fine . Hope i'm just lucky . Now all I have to do is take care of my cold engine knock noise and I'll be very happy.

Mike k

kturner1

Lots of people had piston slap noise from the Phase I 2.5 L but your 02 is a Phase II and, I think, has redesigned pistons to avoid that. Just a thought, I have been reading up on oil filters and they have valves to prevent some of the upper engine oil from draining backwards. Maybe your filter's valve has a leak and it's taking a few seconds to pump up.

cptplt

Well. I've had these on my 98 GT Legacy since mid Oct so maybe its time for an interim report.
In above freezing dry/wet they are as good as the stock RE92s (which are fine tires when new but totally stink when worn even a little - trust me, I've had 4 Subes with these dogs! Interestingly the V rated RE92 from my WRX I am running on the Legacy now seem from memory much better than the H rated).
Disclaimer, since comparisons are from memory and not back to back driving comparisons, my take on this tire may be quite different to that from tests in any magazine etc.
The NRW may be a little more noisy than the RE92. They are definitely not as good as Michelin Pilot XGT H4s in terms of dry/wet traction and ride.
In ice/slush/packed snow they are ok, but thats about it, definity worse than the original Blizzak WS15 I ran on 2 92 Legacies and worse than the Michelin Arctic Alpin I had prior to the NRWs.There is one corner up the road from the house where I seem to be sliding a little more than in prev years - or maybe its because I think I'm still in my WRX!!
I haven't had lots of snow this year so far, maybe they are better in deep snow than the others.Will see. As far as tread wear, given most of the last 4K miles has been on dry roads, they look new. Even with the ice/slush traction subjectively worse than my prev snowtires I think I would still buy the NRW again, if only because I can run them even when its warmer and not worry about those spring/fall months and deciding when to change.Plus in the dry they are as good as a decent all season, which the Blizzak WS15 are certainly not. The Arctic Alpins are close to decent on dry roads. My wifes minivan has the Blizak MZ02 which are also quite good on dry roads but that has been discontinued. The WS50 has replaced the MZ01/02 and the older WS15 and are supposed to run better in the dry. The H rating on the NRW is also a plus since the roads get plowed fairly well around my area but if you need to be out in the sticks maybe stick with a true Q rated winter tire

While I'm on the subject of winter tires, the Blizzak LM22 on my WRX seem very nice on all surfaces but since I hate to see it get dirty I don't go out in the snow with it that much!

rogertc1

Did you drive over the rocks in front of you. Heck my Geo Metro could drive where you were.

xccoachlou

A local dealer has advertised leftover 02 Auto with All Weather Package for $18750 plus taxes, title, tags.. which I figure will bring the total to just over 20K.

What do you folks think?

jfl

Lou, that looks right in line with Edmunds TMV, without knowing the cost of the All Weather Package.

Buying a 2002 now means you take a bigger depreciation as it's considered a one year old car. If you plan to keep the car a long time, it doesn't matter much, but if you're only planning to keep it for a short time, you'll get less for an "older" car on resale. My $0.02.

Jim

cdndriver

Hi,
I just got a Legacy SE '03. It's great. Can anyone tell me if there's a good place in Canada, preferably Ontario, to get parts for my car. I'm looking for floormats (the dealer wants 98.00 for them! for rubber ones!!)
I'd rather not go through the hassle of ordering from the US.
Also, I'd like to get the tie down hooks for the cargo area. Will Outback hooks fit?
Thanks,
cdndriver

goosegog

I came across this by accident and thought it might be of interest, as our cars are not the most economical of 2.5L engines. They have photos of the device fitted to Imprezas as well as many other cars. I'm always sceptical of "fuel-saving" devices and have no financial interest in this company. And I can't help wonder how the added leanness and lower temperatures will affect ECUs, and emissions tests. No doubt the latter are different in the UK. But you never know, so here's the link.

http://www.ecotekplc.com/

If anyone wants to cross post this to anywhere else be my guest. I can't be bothered. And if anyone buys one let us know if it works, eh?

stever

The usual response is that if these things are any good, why doesn't Subaru license the "technology."

More snake oil here:

The accessories to improve mileage and extend engine life

Steve, Host

caskier

Hi All,

This is a cross post from the Subaru Problems page. Hope someone has some experience with it.

I have a 2001 OB, 4 cyl, 5 sp. I've noticed for a long time that the clutch chatters in the mornings for about the 1st 10 minutes of driving. Lately, we have really started to notice the smell of a burning clutch - even after long stretches of road with no shifting, particularly on hills. But my girl friend says she's noticed the smell slightly since the first day we bought the car.

I took the car into the dealership yesterday. The service rep said that the chattering clutch was normal - it's from the material they use for the clutch. There may eventually be a service bulletin/fix for it. But he said they would look at the "burning" issue.

Sure enough, we when came back he said we need a new clutch - the existing one is burnt - and they would replace it under warranty as a one time good will gesture. The car has 22k miles on it.

Now, several things don't make sense to me. 1)How could I burn out a clutch in 22k? I've never burned a clutch in 3 cars I've owned and I drive this car very conservatively. And the burning smell we noticed was usually after highway driving. 2) They're going to replace it under warranty - as a good will gesture? They already said there's a known flaw in the clutch material. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but could this burning clutch be another known flaw or an artifact of this material?

Regards,
CA

mrk610

I wish it was that easy . I have had the noise since 6k miles and have 3 o/f changes since.I have only been using the subaru filter so maybe next time I'll try a different filter.

mike k

lfdal

Hi all,
My wife is looking at an '03 Outback wagon and we're both wondering if anyone has any problems with the handle "bar" that goes across the back of the liftgate. We wanted to get one added, but the salesman says they have a history of cracking the paint from flexing the metal, as well as rusting out. Anyone got any good/bad things to say about them?
Thanks

mjmille7

As for the clutch, I'm not sure whether the chatter is the same as the shuddering that has been talked about here for awhile. I had experienced the shuddering since about 5k and was lucky enough to talk the local dealer into new parts at about 10k, so far after the first 1k seems OK, won't know for sure for at least another 5k, sure I will be holding my breath for that long.

As for the Grab Handle, I have seen several that develop a rust spot around the rubber seals on the tailgate. I don't know how they attach these things, but personally I would steer clear.

lucien2

It isn't a factory option; it is a dealer-added doo-dad to make the OB look more SUV-like. They drill into the tailgate to install it. The tailgate wasn't designed for this, there are no hardpoints for it, and it will indeed flex the paint and create rust. Plus I think it looks kinda tacky.

lfdal

Thanks mjmille and lucien2 for the replies. The grab handle is off the list.
Thanks again.

goosegog

Erfie our 00 OB has the burning smell whenever the clutch is slipped a little more than normal. We tow a small pop-up trailer and manouvering with this on an incline will always generate a powerful stink. I was much alarmed at first because I have driven standards for 38 years with only routine clutch replacements. My Mazda 323 lasted 220,000 km, and never smelled either except once when my daughter was learning and held it on a hill too long. I still have reservations about Erfie's clutch but only time will tell. But no shudder/chatter, ever.

We had the tailgate spoiler and the grab handle put on before delivery and we find both useful. No problems with paint, or rust so far, and we live in a wet climate. I've never noticed any flexing but perhaps I'm gentle with it.

33,000 km on the car and 3 years old in April.

nygreg

Same here. I have it. Installed by the dealer. I find it very useful and would do it again. Car is almost 2 years old now (01) with 33K and no problems. I plan on removing it in the spring and wax underneath, possibly touch up around the drilled holes.

wmiller4

I have the "Grab Handle" as well. I too find it very useful and would do it again. I have an 02 Bean.

lucien2

YMMV



I'm just concerned about it over the long haul (as it were). I've seen a couple '98s around town that look like they are developing a little rust. Just traces mind you, and it is entirely possible that these owners are neglecting the cars- no waxing, rough handling of the bar, etc.

nygreg

if you weren't confused about getting the grab handle before, you are now.

All valid points. Couldn't we use the same argument for door handles and roof racks? Just a thought. Not sure what structure the handle attaches to.

Greg

kens

A little surface rust isn't something to be worried about. As long as it comes off with a few brushes of some fine grit sandpaper and the surface is painted, it's fine.

Ken

hashman

havn't been here for awhile...hope everyone had a great Holiday. Nice discussions. Just finished doing maintenance work on the OB, 00',38K. Had to get a new pre-cat O2 sensor(check engine light came on). All fluids changed, will be getting new treads put on tonight (went with Tirerack.com, Kumho HP4 716 great site for tires). Belts and hoses look fine. Bosch's Microedge windshield wipers work great. Used Frams oil and air filters. Changed the rear brake pads, front were done by previous owners and looks good. Found a differential cover was installed, looks good. Exhaust hangers is in good shape, some rust. CV boots look good. All in all everything looks great.
I saw that rear gate handle on someone eleses outback...yuk...just another thing to bug you when wash the car...the notch on the bottom of the gate works for me.
Will let you know about these tires...everything I've heard was pretty good. The price is incredibly low ... a few skeptical hairs are standing on end. The original Firestone Wilderness aren't holding on anymore. Pondering to get dedicated snows.

Later....

lfdal

Thanks to all who got back to me on the Grab Handle. I looked at the install manual for one, and the only thing I can think of that would make it rust would be if the dealer didn't properly coat the holes he has to drill for the bolts. Subaru actually includes a decent set of washers to seal around a properly installed handle. I think I may do it myself in the spring, and then I'll actually reinforce the back of the attaching points with a little extra metal to prevent flex.

Now my next question, the one I forgot to ask yesterday, is "Does the rear air deflector actually help keep the rear window cleaner, especially in the foul weather?". I really don't want to get a rear spoiler but the air deflector is a lot less expensive. Any thoughts / comments?

I don't have one on my Forester, and the rear window cruds up terribly from road throw in the winter.
Thanks Again

lfdal

Just a FYI for anyone interested. When I started the last round of how much oil the engine can take, because my dealer always sets it high on the stick there were a lot of interesting responses.

BTW I do check it cold on a level spot.

I confirmed this by draining every drop of oil out of it, putting on a new filter, adding exactly 4.2 qts, and then running it just long enough to make sure the filter was full. It was right where it belonged on the stick.

Anyway, I e-mailed Subaru and received a response that I'm filing with my maintenance records just in case, that said the engine will withstand +/- 1 quart. That's a very tolerant engine. If anyone wants to see the e-mail, let me know.

zman3

I feel that the air deflector on my 98 Outback works pretty darn well. The rear window will still get dirty but it doesn't seem nearly as bad as other vehicles I've had without a deflector. I assume that it is a function of the deflector and not the design of the vehicle. Maybe someone who has added one can comment, mine has had it since new.

rob999

Mine works well for DUST and regular rainwater. The downward airflow seems to clear this stuff away pretty good. The rear window on our Saab wagon doesn't stay nearly as clear as on our Outback w/ the dust deflector.

HOWEVER, road salt spray and winter road mung seems to stick regardless - once this stuff hits the rear window it seems to stick pretty good.

hashman

Thank goodness for rear washer and wipers. I don't have deflectors the rear sure gets messy now in the winter days. I hope someone could answer if deflectors make a difference.