Subaru Legacy/Outback

gwellman

Ok everybody. I bought the 99 Legacy and I'm happy with it. However, I had it less than a week and someone stole the stereo. Now here's my question. The car was locked and shows zero sign of forced entry. So either
a) There's some easy way for thieves to get into Legacies
b) Someone has a copy of my key
c) Someone has a keyless entry remote (I don't even know if this car is equipped with that - no remote came with it)

Any suggestions?

paisan

I doubt that a subaru stereo would get stolen!

They probably used a removable antenna to get in. Quite easy on GC8s if you lock your keys in.

The other thing is perhaps you left it unlocked?

-mike

jlitterer

Can anyone give me "real" gas mileage they're getting on the Outback with the 6 cylinder engine?
Also, any problems with this engine. (Saw a lot of head gasket comments earlier on some cars)

snowbelter

In one year of driving (15k) I've averaged 20-21 city-suburban in spring, summer, fall, and 18-19 in serious winter. 24-26 on the highway at 70-75. Have stuck with 93 octane.

fibber2

What you report maybe the beginning of a new theft trend. A close friend of mine is a county police officer in NJ. He told me that a few weeks ago they busted a crew working a shopping mall. Equipped with radios and a very sophisticated code grabber, they were stealing cars as soon as the owners walked away from them. With the right 'radio signal coded key' intercepted from the remote fob, they have access to the interior. Slap hammer the ignition switch, and you are off and running.
Very sad.....

Steve

otis123

LLBeaner - delivered 2/1/01 - just under 40K miles. Mainly suburban driving - around town & highway mixture. I ALWAYS warm the engine up when leaving the house for roughly 5 minutes (remote starter).

Getting 21.5 to 23 mpg the past four months on winter gas mixture. Average 22.5 to 24 mpg on regular gas mixture. Get 24 to 25.5 mpg on a long, highway-only trip.

But, believe it or not, have gotten the best mileage on highway in summer with air conditioning on MAX - 25.5 to 26.5 mpg. Happened twice, too!

The engine/drivetrain is downright sweet...especially when you floor it to pass someone on an uphill grade...sounds like a plane/feels like a rocket...

Ralph

postmodern

Steve,

Dumb question -- Could they grab the code if you locked the doors using the door switch or only if you used the remote?

Lyn

self_mechanic

The last 4 gas tanks, I average about 23 mpg (85% freeway and 15% city driving) with Costco brand 91 octane. I don not see any difference in mpg with Shell or Chevron gas. Pump the tire pressure to 33 Psi front and 32 Psi rear. Strictly on Mobil 1 oil diet with Pure one filter. Cross bars are removed.

Alland

otis123

93 Octane, cross bars removed, reg oil and Subaru filters, 30psi front and 29 rear on original Firestones...Mobil or Hess gas - no difference...

Ralph

gwellman

It was a Pioneer. I really had no idea whether it was expensive or not. Finding out what model it was was on my list of things to do. No documentation on the stereo came with the car.

gwellman

Followup. Ok, it was the cheapest Pioneer http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/caraudio/product.asp?sku=11883

So a person can just sqeeze a metal rod (like an antenna) inside the window and press the door release? That means I can't ever leave anything in my car!

Is there a solution for this?

gwellman

Oh, and one more question: They sliced the wires. Does this mean I need to buy more than a replacement stereo - wiring, plugs, soldering?

paisan

Here is a nice stereo I just picked up for my Trooper. I had the 980 model in the SVX but the 990 is identical to it.

http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=jvckdsx990

-mike

ffsteve

I've had a Bean for almost two years. Always use highest octane gas (91), crossbars removed, somewhat calm driving style.

19-21 strictly around town, 23-24 mixed, and typically 26 freeway. Freeway here is 70-80mph, air conditioner always on. Highest achieved is 27mpg a couple of times on round trips to LAX on the San Diego Freeway of all places.

Trips over mountains to the desert, loaded with camping gear and two persons, on two lane higways return 25mpg.

Knock on wood, no head gasket, pinging, CEL, coolant, transmission lag, or any other problem reported by others.

goosegog

Gwellman, sorry for your loss. At least they didn't smash the window.

In my opinion it is a bad idea to leave anything in a car anytime. Around Greater Vancouver, some people leave the glovebox and ashtray open, just to show there's nothing of value. Druggies will bust into your car just for quarters or a pair of sunglasses. I hear heartbreak stories all the time, of tourists or people who are moving house and had their car emptied of all their worldly possesions, as well my colleagues who have their windows smashed for nothing, because there's nothing in there anyway. My daughter had her car broken into in downtown Vancouver and a bag taken. The bag contained a change of clothing, the dirty stuff! They don't look, just grab, run and hope there's something of value in it.

And whatever stereo you buy will likely need a custom-made wiring harness adapter to mate it to the Subaru. If they only cut the adapter wiring for the Pioneer you're in luck. If they cut the Subaru harness you'l have to have it patched up.

ariatari

Hi all! My wife and I are on the verge of a new purchace, and are leaning heavily towards the GT over the Outback. I have a few quick ?s for those of you who are proud Subaru owners:

1. Are there any obvious differences between the Gt and the Outback Limited? To me, I like the GT b/c I dont like the 2 colored body molding and I like the tiptronic shift on the GT. Pretty much everything else seems to be the same.

2. As far as car seats are concerned, can you put a rear facing carseat easily in the middle of the GT? I think that there are only LATCH hooks on the sides, but can you just use the lap belt part of the seatbelt in the middle seat? Any concerns or experiences here would be helpful.

3. Any other general advice? This would be my first wagon and first Subaru. Reliability? Etc ...

Thanks!!!

subearu

Regarding #1, the differences is tires and clearance. The Outback has a higher ground clearance, as well as slightly larger tires. The GT may ride a bit sportier than the Outback as well. Same engine (provided it's not an H6 VDC or LL-BEAN Outback), same transmission (even though the GT uses a sport-matic type it's the same 4EAT).

Regarding #2, yes, you can fit a rear facing carseat in the middle of the rear seats. I was able to do this with no trouble in our '00 Outback with a Fisher Price Safe Embrace II, as well as an EvenFlo infant carrier with base.

However, some seat models fit better/worse than others, so you may have to try the other rear seat positions for a better fit.

-Brian

scarwaf

Looking to purchase tires for my Subaru Outback VDC. Will not buy tires made in France or a French Company. Can you tell me which brands are available to me?
Thanks,
Bob

nygreg

Try Dunlops (either Sport A2s or SP5000s). I have the A2s. Good tire. Quiet at first, but get a little noisier as they wear.

Greg

megawatt1

- also looking to replace tires for a '00 Outback with 46,000 miles on the original Wilderness tires (which are still showing 5/32" of tread left). One thing I have noticed with the original tires (even when new) is they are prone to hydroplaning and did not have great traction in snow. I'm thinking that since the tires are sort of wide that they tend to ride on top of the water or snow causing poor traction. Has anyone else noticed this?
- Ralph

fibber2

Irish24 beat me to it! As the range of our fobs is somewhat limited, I wouldn't worry about anyone intercepting it under most circumstances. Maybe be careful at a big, crowded mall lot.

Steve

jfl

I always lock the door manually before I close it and unlock it with the fob.

Jim

idahodoug

I have a bit more to say about the Michelin Arctic Alpins I put on the Legacy for winter. For those who did not see my post a bit ago, I don't like them and will go back with traditional aggressive studded snows for this Fall.

I put the summer Michelin X-Ones back on a couple weeks ago. Immediately, we got several snow storms. I was astonished on the last one yesterday how well the X-Ones did on heavy slush - tracking like a freight train on stuff that had the Alpins literally feeling unsafe with a near loss of directional stability. Just to see how much I could push it, I was on the freeway and stopped accelerating at 70 without feeling any loss of traction whatsoever. In short, I'm somewhat puzzled to report the X-Ones appear to out perform the winter specific Alpins in all winter conditions save glare ice.

For anyone in the NW, I will be selling a set of Alpins on factory Subaru rims that have only 3500 miles on them for cheap.

IdahoDoug

ateixeira

Don't the remotes have rotating codes, i.e. they change each time?

But I agree, if a thief wants to get in, they will.

Bummer Greg. If the OE Subaru harness is intact, and you want a cheap replacement, I have a pair of AM/FM/cassette players that I took out of our Subies and replaced with 6CD changers.

If you're interesting, e-mail me and we'll negotiate off line.

-juice

schiza

Our LL Bean stalled again, last time they replaced the ignition. Car has 1600 miles on it. If they don't fix it this time, I can invoke my state's lemon law (Mass). It has been fustrating to say the least. Our 10 year old jeep chorokee was more reliable that I traded in. The problem is electrical since everything shuts off. We'll see what happens.

ateixeira

Sorry to hear about that John.

Are they at least providing a loaner? If not, I'd call 800-SUBARU3 and demand one.

-juice

paisan

Do you have a remote starter on your car? If so the lemon law won't help you, nor will subaru. I know someone who had a stalling problem had a remote starter just wasn't sure who.

-mike

schiza

I do have a remote starter, but the dealer installed it. They said that wasn't the problem even though I thought it was. Supposedly they are in contact with Suburu figuring out what the problem is. This time they should remove the starter and hopefully it won't stall. Thanks

paisan

Yeah subaru isn't responsible for that, your dealer however is gonna be the one who pays for that repair, hopefully they work it out and it didn't fry your wiring harness.

Lemon-law won't help you though since it's a "modification" to the original manufacturer's specs.

-mike

ateixeira

I have to agree. I hope the dealer owns up to their own work and gets it fixed. If not I'd hire a lawyer.

-juice

schiza

The dealer and subaru are working on this together. In fact subaru told the dealership to replace the ignition and that a few other cars had the same problem.

Don't they have to prove it's the auto starter at fault? Someone will either repair my car or give me a new car. Other cars have auto starters without any problems. If they remove the starter and it doesn't do it again then we know it was the starter. If it still does it then it's the car. Shouldn't somebody fix it or replace the car. My thinking it's the starter at fault.

ateixeira

Well, it's their problem now. You just want it resolved, let them negotiate the terms with Subaru and just fix it.

-juice

paisan

May have damaged the wiring harness while it was connected. Just because you removed it now doesn't mean it wasn't the problem. Other cars do have remote starters and a lot of them also have trouble with them. I have yet to see a factory fitted remote starter.

I always find it funny when a person modifies their car, then expects the manufacturer to warranty their car if their modification was the cause of the problem... amazing...

-mike

schiza

I find it funny that your a so called expert in the lemon law. Are you an expert internet chat room lawyer also. Before you jump to any conclusions about my ignorance, Subaru and the dealership are looking into this. They know about the starter and don't think that's the isue. They should know since they've had it for 2 weeks. That is why I think the car will be replaced if they can't fix it. So far they've replaced the relay switch and the ignition under warranty, but according to you they can't fix my car under warranty because the mod voids it. This mod is a Subaru authorized mod. Anyway's we'll see what happens, I would just like to have a car that doesn't stall. If I need to I'll get a real lawyer. I hope it doesn't come to that.

ateixeira

The dealer did it, it's their problem, not yours.

-juice

paisan

Trust me on that. Subaru does not condone auto starters. They may be doing you a favor and warrantying it, and I agree that the DEALERSHIP is responsible for it, but SOA is not responsible, IF it is the starter that is causing the problem. IF it is not the starter then SOA IS responsible for it as they should be.

People have had their warranty voided for a lot less than a remote starter...

-mike

ateixeira

Fair enough. SoA should get the dealer to agree to stop offering it.

-juice

paisan

Dealers LIVE on the money they make from accessories.

-mike

PS: have a good weekend everyone.

hypov

schiza-
remote starter or not, by virtue of it being installed in the car prior to the reported stalling(s), SoA is off the hook and need not give you a new car per "Lemon Law". SoA is working with the Dealer to resolve your stalling (outside of warranty) because it is their product and you their customer, but don't bet your house that you're getting a new car from SoA. At best, you get your car fixed at Dealer's expense. If you want a new car, recommendations would be get a lawyer and take aim at the Dealer. The new car would be at the Dealer's expense.

-Dave

stever

Yet another Steve - I had to check to make sure you weren't Fibber/Steve. Can't keep up with all of us :-). If we've chatted in the Subara Crew chats (and I think I've seen you there), you can't tell I'm a host by my login. Unless you notice me harassing Bob_Mod a lot - that's a giveaway, lol.

Revka has a Quest so I invite her to Vans a lot and she lets me play in Wagons some :-)

My OB is sitting at the airport while we're visiting friends on the North Slope. Have seen one OB cruising around at minus 20 w/ 20 mph wind (~-40 windchill). It's a different world....

Traveling next week so will probably miss the chat again :-(. It may be a while before I can report on the chirp. Road trip!

Steve, Host (Vans & SUVs & A&A)

sirfile

To scarwaf / Message 7972:

Re: Purchasing New Tires

Michelin, BFGoodrich [owned by Michelin], and Uniroyal are owned by French firms.

We have been very pleased with the new Bridgestone LS-T tires installed on our 2002 OB. They are T-rated with an 80,000 mile warranty, treadwear 700 and traction AB. Wet and dry performance, handling, and wear are excellent. If you want to stick with an H-rated tire, try the LS-H version which has a different tread design, 50,000 mile warranty, and rated at 400 AA A. Take a look at The Tire Rack for ratings and user comments.

If you prefer less expensive tires, Dayton Tire [made in the USA] is owned by Bridgestone and makes excellent tires that are available through independent dealers. LeMans tires, available through Bridgestone dealers, are manufactured by Dayton and are also great tires.

Incidentally, Car&Driver and Road&Track are owned by a French publishing company.

There are so many choices out there and its easy to get lousy treads that you can't wait to wear out! I hope this helps and that you are pleased with your tire selection.

Sirfile

scarwaf

Thanks so much for taking the time to get the tire information to me. Now I can make some good choices.
I also want to thank everyone who sent me information on the tires.
This computer is really a great tool and having folks like you around is even better.
Bob (Scarwaf)

bhuppert

My daughter and wife each have 98 Outbacks and are both experiencing the rear hatch failing to unlock. We sprayed some silicone lubricant into them at that seemed to help somewhat but didn't fix the problem. Has anyone experienced this and what is the solution?

Thanks from Grand Rapids, MI.

fibber2

Not me! Can't you see, I'm down here! ;-)

Steve (of the fibbing variety...)

PS: I have a trifold sheet that I picked up from my dealer with more key fob button operating instructions. If you are still having problems, I can scan and e-mail it to you.

idahodoug

I don't think Paisan was directing that "people who modify" comment at you, however I agree with him on the starter. It is definitely NOT a Subaru remote starter, nor is it offered by Subaru through the dealer. It is an aftermarket part your dealer installed and he is correct that it voids your rights under the lemon law due to a modification. This brings up an interesting point, which is how do you the consumer know when something the dealer is doing to your car voids the lemon law and should they inform you beforehand? Interesting and I'm sure there is case law on it. I'd think a good lawyer could get it reinstated based on the "reliance in good faith" on your part.

IdahoDoug

hypov

SoA would argue their reliance in good faith (the "Faith") was on the Dealer, and it is the Dealer that breached the Faith to deliver the vehicle as intended by SoA to it's customer. Dealer's failure to disclose, that's another matter.
IMO, liability(ies) is/are on the Dealer.

-Dave

idahodoug

Dave,

I'm no lawyer, but the Lemon Law itself is based on the Dealer's good faith efforts to properly attempt to repair a vehicle as the official representative of a manufacturer (such as SoA). Since this relationship is able to bind SoA, I think the legal direction would be valid as an attempt to reinstate Lemon Law. As mentioned, there is probably case law as to whether this would work or not. But that's for the legal types to work out.

IdahoDoug

nygreg

Earlier, I mentioned Dunlops as good replacement tires. Then I remembered that they are owned by another company. Can't remember the company though. Is it Goodyear??

Greg

hypov

IdahoDoug-
A lawyer I'm not either.
The lemon law varies State to State. In most State, I think, the Lemon Law could be reinstated. In the case of New York, the manufacturer and the authorized dealer appears to be treated as separate anatomy/entity.

Take paragraph (2) of the revised NY Lemon Law, "You must report any problem to the manufacturer, its agent, or authorized dealer." Notice each gets an honarable mention but not tied/bind together collectively as a single anatomy/entity (i.e. the manufacturer, its agent, or authorized dealer hereinafter referred to collectively as the "party").

Then you go to paragraph (4) fourth line "or if the manufacturer or its agent refuses to repair..." More evidence of individuality. Here the "authorized dealer" can refuse repair, and their refusal does not constitute refusal by the manufacturer or its agent vis a versa.

It gets better. Paragraph (5) draws that thick line. "A manufacturer may deny liability if the problem is caused by abuse, neglect, or unauthorized modification of the car." Notice neither the agent nor the authorized dealer are mentioned. My reading says neither the agent nor the authorized dealer are relieved of liability and are responsible for any abuse, neglect, or unauthorized modification of their own doing.

So, as far as paragraph (5) of the NY Lemon Law is, there's no binding relationship between the named parties.

-Dave

dmartell

I need all of your help. I was in a local Subaru dealer today with my father. He was looking around and saw a 2000 Outback Limited Sedan with only 27000 miles on it and it is in MINT condition. The dealer is asking $19000 for it, if we can get the price down to about $18K, will it be a good deal? Any comments and/or your experiences with your Outback are appreciated.