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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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    prometheus67prometheus67 Member Posts: 4
    My wife and I just bought the LL Bean Outback through the Costco Car Purchase program. It was a great deal! Well, I think it was. We paid $25,320. That was less than any of the Internet offers I could find and I'm not really one for haggling.

    I bought my '99 Legacy GT Limited 25th Ann. new and never regretted it. The LL Bean has impressed me much more!
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    revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    and congrats on your new LL Bean Outback! We look forward to hearing about your ownership experience.... You may also want to check out our Subaru Crew Owners Club; and while you're there, be sure hello in our Meet the Members discussion. Happy motoring! ;-)

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
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    blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    Just curious - what dealer was fedupobowner2 using? At the very least (even if we can't fix the problem) we might be able to suggest a better dealer. I have found the dealer to be the SINGLE biggest variable in "service satisfaction" (having dealt with Honda, Toyota, VW, GM, Volvo and Subaru dealers over the years).
    I can personally recommend Natick Subaru here in Mass, but not sure where fedupobowner2 is located.
    Matt
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    blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    Congrats on the LL Bean! Was that an '03? If so, great price! I paid 26k for my '02. How do you like the navi system?
    Matt
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Do you mean OnStar?

    DaveM
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    xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    Prometheus,

    What part of the country are you in? If you got a new '03 Beaner for just over 25K, I'm joining Costco now! Then I'm buying a Subaru!

    - Lou
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yowsah, that's the best price I've seen for a Bean model. Sweet, congrats!

    -juice
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    hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Prometheus: I'd like to hear more about your Costco experience... sounds like others would as well. Care to share?
    Thanks!

    Cheers!
    Paul
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    clamshells4clamshells4 Member Posts: 1
    Just found this site....can anyone tell me where I might be able to get replacement cup holders for my 98 Legacy Outback Wagon. Both the front and rear are broken (one by my husband and the other by kids). I really don't want to order from the dealer and don't really have time to drive the distance to junkyards.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Ebaymotors.com - search for "Outback cup.

    It's not an original equipment replacement though. Usual auction disclaimers too!

    Lots of junkyards are on the net now and they ship. Try a net search for "auto salvage."

    Steve, Host
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    nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Congratulations on your Bean. What color did you get?

    Greg
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    nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Congratulations on your Bean. What color did you get? My past experience with Costco (when searching for my current 01 OB) was $500 over invoice. I did better on my own.

    Greg
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    twhantwhan Member Posts: 45
    I am thinking to buy a 2003 Base Outback, AT. It gonna mainly for my commute and occasionally trip to Tahoe. A few concerns are:
    1) How is the gas mileage? I saw someone was claiming only getting 22 in highway. If that's the case, I will have to think again since I can get 29/30 on my old 91 mitsubishi galant.
    2) How is the noise in the carbin? My wife and I testdrove the Accord and we were not impressed. How is Subaru compared to Accord?
    I was thinking to buy an Accord and even about to sign the paper. But I really want to try something else. Maybe this is an old topic for everybody. But this is gonna be my first new car, please advise. Thanks.
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    otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    The LLBean has gone down that much?? Hard to believe. I paid $27500. in 1/01 and that was $200. over Edmund's invoice at the time??

    Ralph
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    In mainly short trip city driving, we get 18-21 MPG in the winter, 20-23 MPG in the summer, typically. Highway trips have yieled 23-26 MPG, but I did get 28 MPG once. Overall, with most of our miles coming from the short city miles, we average about 22 MPG.

    Keep in mind that the boxer 4 cylinder that is in the Subaru's is a different animal compared to the Honda 4 cylinder. Boxer engines typically have a 'growl' to them.

    Some have found that the crossbars on the Outback roof rack can be a bit noisy. Simply removing the crossbars when not in use seems to remedy it. If you were to opt for the top of the line VDC model, it has additional soundproofing materials in it due to the sound system.

    My advice is to take an Outback out for a spin and see for yourself.

    -Brian
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    The gas milage on the OB is not bad at all considering what you're getting in comparision to the Galant:
    - AWD drivetrain (extra components and more drivetrain loss reduces gas milage)
    - Larger displacement engine
    - Stiffer and more crash-worthy chassis

    Cabin noise is average for a vehicle of it's class. Keep in mind that wagons will transmit more noise into the cabin since there is no separation from the cargo area. Also, tire selection also has a big impact on cabin noise. The tires on the OB were selected to address it's light off-road capability. You could improve the noise by going with tires that had less agressive tread patterns.

    Ken
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    ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    I have a 2001 Outback Base AT and drive ONLY in town stop and go traffic light to traffic light on most tanks and consistently get 19-21 mpg. On our highway trips we've had anywhere from 26-28 mpg consistently. Some 'wind' noise, but it doesn't bother me since I hear no rattles or other type noises in the car!
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I had a 2000 base Outback 5-spd, and got about 23mpg in mixed driving. I now have a 2002 LL Bean auto, and get 22mpg for the same conditions. On strictly highway trips, I have gotten 27-29 mpg in both cars. So, the big conclusion here is that there's not really an MPG penalty going for the H6 models.

    My parents have the 2000 car now, and no question, it's quieter and more isolated than their Accord (98 model I think). Cruises much better on the highway too. Can't say how it would compare to the new Accords however, but Hondas have never been that quiet in my opinion.

    The LL Bean model has the additional sound proofing Brian mentioned for the VDC. Compared to the base model Outback and the Accord, it is like a bank vault. When I first drove an LL Bean back to back with a Lexus RX-300 and Acura MDX, it was the quietest of the bunch in my opinion (SUVs are notoriously noisy).

    I agree, take off the rack crossbars when not in use, it makes a big difference, especially if you get an Outback with the moon roofs.

    As someone who works in acoustics, I have to tell you that noise is extremely subjective. What annoys one person may hardly even bother another. So you really need to try out the cars for yourself. Get them up to 70mph and see what you think.

    Craig
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    jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Outbacks, Legacys, and Foresters all have the same 2.5L boxer 4 cylinder engine.

    My Legacy sedan (5 spd) gets a very consistent 24 mpg in mixed driving and 28 - 29 mpg in pure highway (about 70 mph) to tahoe and back.

    Fuel economy on the 2003 Legacy L/Special Edition is rated better with the automatic 22 city/29 hwy compared to the manual 21/27! (This info from the Spring 2003 issue of Drive magazine.) It might be the same situation with the Outback.

    Good luck in your search,

    Jim
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    19-20 in the city if I behave once and a while. 27-28 highway, if I keep it around 70 or so. Faster than that has a bit of a noticeable effect on range; call it 24-26.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm at home, I have the URL for that CT junkyard that specializes in Subaru at work. Anyone have that handy? Look there for replacement cup holders.

    News from NY:

    2004 Outbacks get chrome badges instead of gold, IMO they look better, more subtle. The wheels on the LL Bean there were the all-silver ones from the Baja, too, so the two-tone wheels may be a thing of the past.

    The L/SE is replaced by an L 35th Ann. Edition. It's the same, but adds a power front seat that looks a lot like the 2002 GT's seat, i.e. velour-like cloth. Nice.

    -juice
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    retiredguyretiredguy Member Posts: 67
    This is the first reference to different insulation between model levels. I have been researching Foresters and have not seen any information regarding insulation. The salesman has taken me for test drives in Forester sx and not the x which I have indicated interest. I have been curious as to why. Do you know if there are different insulation levels in Foresters? Thanks
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    twhantwhan Member Posts: 45
    Thank you guys very much for your information.
    I testdrove the subaru today. More questions:
    1) It looks like the security kit is an option and the dealer said they will charge parts as well as labor if I choose this option. Any alternatives? Does this kit include the engine immobilizer? Can I get the alarm and immobilizer installed somewhere else?
    2) I want to get the upgrade speakers. Can I purchase somewhere else and install them by myself?
    I know dealers make big profits on add-ons. I can leave without the speakers, but really want a good security system.

    Thanks.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Speakers are very, very easy to change. On a scale of 1 to 10, they are a 2. Maybe a 1.5. All you need is one screw driver.

    -juice
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    'coz the screws that hold the speakers in place are Torx heads. Still, Juice is right, it's dead easy.
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    I think you have to remove the door panel to swap the speakers on a Gen 3 Legacy (Gen 2 Outback).

    DaveM
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    This is the URL for the place that juice was referring to: http://www.fsautoparts.com/

    DaveM
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    ...do have to come off, but it is only a couple of screws plus your fingertips, plus um, maybe call it 5 oz. common sense. I've done it now probably 6 times between our Outback and our Legacy GT. Hell, I even swapped a WRX 6-cd changer into the OB in 18 minutes flat. (Surprise gift, got home late, birthday girl was taking the car in 20 minutes. Surprise was complete, mission accomplished.) I was sweating a lot by the end of that though :-)
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    twhantwhan Member Posts: 45
    Thanks all of you for your great info. One more thing is the extended warranty. My understanding is the extended warranty will take effect only after the original manufacturing warranty expires, in this case is 3yr/36000. So I buy a 7yr/100000 ex. warranty. I actually only get 4yr/67000. Is my math right? By the way, any info about the security system? Do you guys think I should have a engine immobilizer installed?
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Emil: as far as I know, both the Forester X and XS have the same insulation, which is to say "little to none". There may be some insulating quality to the various adhesives and coatings on the body, and in the headliner and door panels, but there doesn't seem to be anything else specifically for sound or vibration damping. On the Legacy line, the VDC and LL Bean models get quite a serious increase in insulation, including a pad on the firewall in the engine bay. They are noticeably quieter and more damped feeling compared to base models.

    --

    Juice, Lucien: I would not call door panel removal on the 00-03 Legacy models to be trivial. I pulled a panel off when I first got my LL Bean, and there were quite a few tricks involved (if you want to do it right and keep from breaking pieces). That experience made life a lot easier when I put aftermarket speakers in my new WRX -- the door panel design is very similar. Not hard, but like I said, requires a few tricks and some careful gorilla techniques. I took pictures and documented the Legacy procedure; if anyone needs it, let me know.

    --

    Rush: Legacy upgraded speakers are actually pretty decent sounding, especially if you have the CD/tape unit that has a decent amount of power. Security system works well too. It does have a starter cutoff. Both of these options are fairly common, so keep looking around until you find a car that comes with them factory installed. You'll be a lot better off than having the dealer do it. Regarding the warranty, don't feel pressured to buy it now -- you can decide right before the factory warranty is up if you want. Personally, I never buy extended warranties on any product; I remember seeing data a few years back that said consumers only benefit from these in about 1% of all cases.

    Craig
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    twhantwhan Member Posts: 45
    It's very hard to find a base outback with the factory-installed security system and with the color(Timberline Green) I want at this time, I mean near the end of the model year. There are pretty good deals going on(I think I can get a Base AT below $20000) but less selections. I don't know if I should wait until the new 2004 comes out. Do you know when?
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    ohsubieohsubie Member Posts: 8
    Last week I had to replace my front brake pads and rotors. It is a simple job requiring only a 15 and 17 mm wrench and a C clamp. The pads were down to nothing and the steering wheel shimmied when I stopped. One rotor showed signs of cracking. It had several small (1 inch) cracks). I then broke down and put new Nokian WR tires on on Friday. All at about 50k miles.
    The Nokians are quite and ride very well. I cautioned the tire dealer about over torquing the wheels and I told him I use 72ft/lbs and he had them done with the torque wrench.
    An interesting note. This tire dealer can turn down a tire to reduce its diameter. This is note worthy because if I loose a tire at say 30K miles he can make the new one match the old ones. This has the potential to say a group on tires if one is damaged.
    To the person who wants the security system. The Subaru system is not difficult to install.
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    twhantwhan Member Posts: 45
    It's very hard to find a base outback with the factory-installed security system and with the color(Timberline Green) I want at this time, I mean near the end of the model year. There are pretty good deals going on(I think I can get a Base AT below $20000) but less selections. I don't know if I should wait until the new 2004 comes out. Do you know when?
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    But, how long did it take you to remove the forgotten CD from the old player? :-)

    DaveM
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    tkevinblanctkevinblanc Member Posts: 356
    Before you worry too much about the security system, ask your insurance person how much it will save you. If it's little to nothing, that should tell you what they think the risk of the vehicle being stolen is.

    I'm not saying the security system isn't worth doing, necessarily, but realize what the real risk is.

    Also, there is at least one guy on this board that has reported a serious problem with his Subaru electrical system cutting out completely. He has a dealer-installed remote starter. It's hard not to think that's the cause of his problems.
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    well, that's still in the old player :-) :lol: If you recall, the weather headed south bigtime shortly thereafter. Maybe this week sometime I will have the time to get that taken care of. I just need the power lead out of the OB for 20 seconds or so.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    loosh: on the Forester, I didn't even need torx bits, and all you have to do it pop off speaker covers. I guess the new Legacy is harder.

    Pull that CD out when if/when you install a short shift kit, because half the labor is done.

    Thanks, Dave, I'm back at work now but you beat me to it. :-)

    twhan: you actually get 4 years or 64k additional miles, but the Subaru Gold also guarantees you a loaner car for service and you get roadside assistance for those 4 years as well.

    Plus you get better resale value if you sell in after 6 years, 9 months, and 98k miles. :-)

    -juice
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    rumc3rumc3 Member Posts: 31
    29mpg highway? Wow, my 97 GT Wagon, auto doesn't get anywhere near that...22-23mpg tops. Do Outbacks have tachometers? Mine does and it shows 3,000 rpm at 70mph..which IS high. My wife's '01 Corolla shows 2400 or so at 70. The revving is probably why it's using so much gas. Overall, I'm not too impressed with the gas mileage..you'd think it would be higher for just a four cylinder engine.
    Is the 6 cylinder the same? I was looking at the new Outback with the 6 and I like it except for the two-tone paint and that dual sunroof! The roof over the driver doesn't slide back, right? But the one over the back seat does? Hey, nobody's ever in my back seat! I want a front sunroof that goes back. I do lots of driving with the windows up and the sunroof back with my GT Wagon.
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    jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    I'll agree with the previous postings. 23ish in town and 28 highway. My combined driving which is 80% highway is about 24mpg in the winter and 27 in the summer.

    yes the OB has a tach. I'm at about 2800 at 70mph with a 01 OB wagan with AT. I believe there is slightly different gearing or is it the tire size?

    --jay
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Robert: you can get a monotone H6 Outback, but only in Titanium Pearl.

    Also, the new cloth model H6 does not have the moonroof IIRC. You could do what I did - go aftermarket. I got an ASC Model 750, 17"x30", one peice moonroof that opens all the way. It starts just aft of that bump in the roof.

    If you don't like the two-tone, you may want to wait for the 2004s. They get silver badging instead of gold, plus monotone silver wheels (from the current Baja), at least on some models. They just showed one in NY.

    -juice
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    sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    I was looking on the Subaru Australia webaite at the Outback H6. I saw that the towing capacity on it was rated at 1600 Kilograms. That's 3500 pounds!

    Does anybody know why the Noth American models are set at 2000 pounds?

    thanks
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    my trooper is rated at 7500 in australia and 5000 here in the US.

    -mike
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    toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
    Jay24,

    When my OBW was in for a clutch and gearbox transplant several years ago the loaner car was an OBW (2001 MY) with an AT. The AT has a lower ratio - lower rpm's - at a given speed than the MT.

    MNSteve - Hurrah! spring is back
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    jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Gearing is a big matrix with Legacy/Outbacks.

    OB has larger diameter tires which lowers rpm. But at the same time, 5th gear is shorter than the Legacy.

    Automatics have a shorter final drive but a much taller top gear which lowers rpm.

    GT manuals have a shorter final drive. Quicker off the line but which raises rpm.

    My 5 spd Legacy L also turns 3000 rpm @ 70 mph. As Jay pointed out, an OB auto turns about 2800 rpm at 70 mph. I don't have the rpms for the GT on this computer.

    All of these number come from the 2000 Legacy & OB service manual.

    Jim
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    toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
    Does this make us "gear heads."

    Which means that the OB MT should have the final gearing of the AT and vica-versa. The OBW AT that was the loaner was a slug compared to the 5 spd. All I know is that at the highway speeds I travel at - avg 3500rpm (about 74mph) - the avg. mpg is 23. Of course, during the winter there is a Thule ski box on top and summer finds bike racks attached to the Thule carry bars.

    Tomorrow the OBW gets to push the motor home to Nebraska for a motor home club rally. Not going to wash the OBW in hopes it will stay dry for the weekend.

    MNSteve
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Love my gearing on the SVX. @ 80mph it turns 2600rpms. :)

    -mike
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    tkevinblanctkevinblanc Member Posts: 356
    For those of you comparing gas mileage, remember that the mileage quoted is probably attained at 55 MPH, not 65 or 75. The difference can be very substantial.

    And putting stuff on top will have a huge effect, too, especially at high speeds. Even removing the cross bars could give you a noticeable increase.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    paisan's right, it's the sue-happy society we live in. Even in the UK, Subies are rated to tow 1800 kg, or 3960 lbs. That's double the US rating.

    I think for the US they build in a little "gravy", figuring owners will stretch the limits a bit. I would not exceed the UK or Aussie ratings no matter what.

    -juice
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    scarwafscarwaf Member Posts: 33
    I have 23,300 miles on my 2001 VDC. Yesterday the engine check light went on along with the VDC off light.
    Dealer says something is wrong with the software and the software has to be sent back to New Jersey to be repaired.
    Has anyone out there experienced this problem?
    I'd appreciate any feedback.
    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I have seen cases where they remove the ECU and reprogram it. I don't think it was a VDC, but SoA knows what they're doing.

    -juice
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