Subaru Legacy/Outback

lakepop

Need more info to estimate value.Mileage/options/location/condition.

Since you already looked at KBB....try
   www.nada.com
OK....good luck.........

ateixeira

Amie: price sounds fair, if the condition is "good". If it's immaculate you might get a little more. The used car market is very soft right now. Calculate the Edmunds TMV also, for reference.

Bummer - I went out to see the Eclipse but it was raining.

-juice

amsbear

I purchased mine last October and they cost me only ~95 per tire. They really performed well during this past snowy winter (NJ). I can give you the name of the tire shop if you like.

Alan 98 OBW Ltd

jdlangan

Alan,

Where did you get them? The cost I mentioned was including valve stems, balancing, etc. I don't know how much they charged per tire for the lifetime rotate/balance - I'm assuming there's an extra charge for that like at other places. I suspect the base price was higher than $95 per though. The conversation was rushed, I was trying to get a baseline to compare.

A couple of places we called this morning were pushing the Michelin Symmetry, anyone know what it is? I suspect that's becuase it's a regular line tire for them, and they probably make more profit on it -

Jeannette

rob999

Did you call NTB or Sears, perchance? I think the Symmetry is one of their house brand Michelins, IIRC

jdlangan

Alan,

Where did you get them? The cost I mentioned was including valve stems, balancing, etc. I don't know how much they charged per tire for the lifetime rotate/balance - I'm assuming there's an extra charge for that like at other places. I suspect the base price was higher than $95 per though. The conversation was rushed, I was trying to get a baseline to compare.

A couple of places we called this morning were pushing the Michelin Symmetry, anyone know what it is? I suspect that's becuase it's a regular line tire for them, and they probably make more profit on it -

Jeannette

jdlangan

My husband made the calls this morning, it was Tire Warehouse and probably Wal Mart that were pushing the Symmetry. The cost for getting in the Pilot Sports was ridiculous, I think Tire Warehouse quoted $182 per for them, $129 total for the Symmetry.

otis123

I got my Pilot Sport A/S at BJs Wholesale for the same price as TireRack - $158. Then $10/tire for mounting/lifetime rotations/road hazzard/etc. They had to special order them and I used a BJs coupon - $7.50/tire.

Ralph

otis123

This is sooooo coool.... and real. European ads are so much better than US...

http://home.attbi.com/~bernhard36/honda-ad.html

jdlangan

My husband made the calls this morning, it was Tire Warehouse and probably Wal Mart that were pushing the Symmetry. The cost for getting in the Pilot Sports was ridiculous, I think Tire Warehouse quoted $182 per for them, $129 total for the Symmetry.

ateixeira

I use my broadcast spreader, usually meant for fertilizer, and sprinkle sand on the drive.

-juice

amsbear

I got them at B-C Tires in Piscataway, NJ. That was with new valves, mount & balance. I really don't recall what their policy is on the lifetime rotation and balancing. I generally rotate my own tires.

They didn't have my size in stock and I had to wait a week for their next shipment to come in which wasn't too bad at all.

Give 'em a try. I put a set on my wifes car too.

Oh yeah, they do come in T and H rated versions.

Alan

danjaecks

The Symmetry is a Michelin OEM tire, i.e. it is made cheaply for new car manufactures. It's probably an OK tire, but certainly is not comparable to a Pilot Sport or Nokian etc. Look for the owner survey on Tire Rack (Its hard to find since they redesigned their web site a while back.) Owners responses to the Symmetry was very mediocre considering the price. An equivalent tire might be the Firestone Affinity. (Both of these tires are OE on Honda Oddysey's for instance.) But the Firestone is $30/tire cheaper and gets much better grades from the owners (although not enough owner responses to convince me.) If you're stuck on Michelin, another choice is the Harmony which is a few $ more than the Symmetry and gets MUCH better grades from the owners (again with not enough responses for me.)
Good luck.

jdlangan

My husband made the calls this morning, it was Tire Warehouse and probably Wal Mart that were pushing the Symmetry. The cost for getting in the Pilot Sports was ridiculous, I think Tire Warehouse quoted $182 per for them, $129 total for the Symmetry.

bat1161

Jeannette,

Which model Subaru are you driving? I remember when I was looking to replace my tires last year, the local tire place recommended the Symmetry. When I did some research at the Michelin website - it said those tires are no good for the Outback - too low a rating if I remember correctly. Doulbe check to make sure they are rated for your car, to avoid any problems.

Mark

fibber2

I have them - OEM tire on my '02 Honda Odyssey EX. Acceptable, basic sneakers. Quiet ride, don't squeal when pushed a bit hard in corners, decent hydroplane resistance, but only fair in snow. What you would expect from a moderate cost OEM tire. Acceptable, but not exciting. Same size as the OB: 225/60-16, but they are T-rated. Don't know if there is an H version for the OB. I put Dunlop snows on this vehicle also and it made a huge difference.

Steve

amsbear

Jeannette,

Mine is 98 Outback Ltd wagon with 15" rims. It takes the 205/70R15 size tires and that is what I had quoted the $95 price on. If your vehicle is of the newer generation and has the 16" rims then maybe there would be a price differential on the Nokians that you were given pricing on.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

Alan

ccampbell4

I saw that someone mentioned problems after installing a K&N filter. Anyone else heard of this or had any experiences?

I've had several problems with my '02 base. It idles high and low, dies occasionally and gets about 16 mpg in the city. Could this be related the my K&N filter?

cptplt

These and the Harmony are S rated only (they are minivan and Caddy Deville OEM tires). You should stick with H rated tires for the OB. With Michelins , that would mean having to go to the MXV range or the XGT H4 etc.even the X One is only T rated though I found they were fine on my 92 Legacy.
Tirerack folks are giving the new Continental all season rave reviews - Extreme Contact or something. Its about the only Continental which gets half decent reviews and Continetals tend to be lower priced than Micehlins!
If you drove conservatively I think you will find the Nokians very good though they may not last as long as the Pilot Sport AS or be as good in the summer but they will beat the pants off it in the winter.

Try etires.com for the Nokians too (not etire.com which is a totally different place)

breckco

I can't believe it. I had a 2000 OB 5spd which was great with the exception of clutch chatter after about 6k miles. Fast forward three years and we bought a 2003 OB 5spd, thinking they've had to have updated the clutch components since this seemed to be a fairly common issue.

Now with about 8k miles the 03 has started to do the same thing. It's most noticable when starting from a stop when cold (as cold as it gets in Southern Cal but seems to be occur slighly even when warm. I've heard there is a TSB/update but have not seen it. Has anyone had this problem addressed? Did it remedy the problem and how long ago was it fixed?

I really love this car otherwise and want to keep it for many years but this really detracts from the enjoyment of driving.

Chris

idahodoug

Tires are like any product, and can have aspects of their production process and parts altered. I'll try to find the Michelin website I was looking at recently where it actually showed several tires as "available only at WalMart" or "Costco only", etc. Sears is also an outlet for this type of tire. From my experience, the vast majority of Michelins are identical no matter where you source them, but this "house brand" strategy seems to be changing that.

IdahoDoug

rjweiss

Chris,

The lousy clutch on Subarus was the reason my wife and I decided to go with an auto for our new 03 Forester.

We had two clutches in our 98L Forester and the new one was no better then the original, except it didn't slip when car was loaded with 5 passengers.

The thing that really bothered us was Subaru (dealer and corporate) never admitted to a problem with them. They always hinted "it was the way we drove" At least they split the cost of the second clutch at 30K miles so the damage wasn't too bad.

We do love our Subaru, truly unique engineering and a blast to drive and yet economical. Even with the chattering clutch (which we got used to) we went ahead and got a new one !

Ron & Liv

jlemole

Hi everyone. I'm thinking of buying a cargo basket -- should come in handy for sandy beach stuff (chairs, boogie boards, etc.). I've looked at the Subaru basket and the Thule. The THule is about $170.00 more, but from the pictures I've seen it also looks more substantial and durable.

Am I crazy for spending the extra bucks on the Thule, or is the official Subaru issue good quality? Also, can you get a fairing with the Subaru model (might cut down on some of the mileage loss)?

Thanks for some help on this.

-Jon

dcm61

FYI - The Subaru model is made by Yakima; so price the Yakima version also.

Go look at both in person, then make your decision.

DaveM

c_hunter

I know this is a serious problem that bothers a lot of people. But, I never experienced it in my 2000 Outback (now driven by my parents, without any problems) or my 2003 WRX. I've always worried that the problem would show up, but thankfully it hasn't. So, either it's not a consistent problem, or it may in fact be related to driver habits. Either way, this is something Subaru should address.

Craig

jdlangan

Ours is an '01 OB, 16 inch rims. Now I feel better about the price difference! We have an appointment for this week to have the Nokians put on, they needed to get them in and we couldn't be without one car until later next week. I'm sure we'll be happy with them, and they're cheaper than the Pilot Sports by quite a bit. I'll definitely let you know what we think of them -

Jeannette

leo2633

Subaru clutches chatter, no doubt about it. I have a 2001 Forester S 5 speed. The original clutch was replaced under warranty at 29K and again at 57K. Our 2002 Outback's clutch was replaced under warranty at 16K. Now, the clutch on our 2003 Outback (which replaced the 2002...long story) is starting to chatter atless than 4K miles! That makes 6 clutches, in 3 different vehicles, in less than 80K miles. It's definitely not caused by our driving habits, as my wife and I have been driving manual trans cars for nearly 30 years each, and have never had this problem with any of them before. I got 197K (yes, that is one hundred ninety seven thousand) miles on the original clutch on my 1992 Nissan Sentra, and it never slipped or chattered ever. Maybe Subaru can get Nissan to supply their clutches. They already supply their mirrors (it says so right on the bottom of the outside mirrors on my '01 Forester!).

The latest clutch on the Forester is a new design, specifically for vehicles that experience chattering when cold and/or wet, according to the dealer. Hopefully this one will last longer than 30K. Also, I guess that is what they will wind up putting in the '03 Outback if they replace that one under warranty.

Good luck to all who are experiencing this problem with an otherwise fine vehicle.

Len

vetmats

I put a K&N filter on my 2000 OB and had many of the same problems (erratic idling, car dying). I ended up returning the K&N and buying an OEM air filter.

K9Leader

I've re-tired two vehicles at Costco in the past 3-4 years -- Michelin X Radials on a '98 Toyota Sienna and some BF Goodriches on an '86 Acura Integra (that I gave to my nephew last year so I don't know how they are wearing) I was pleased in both instances. I was able to get the best price on the tires of any local shop (or Tire Rack), and it is convenient to do rotation and balancing while shopping.
I am preparing to replace the OEMs on my 2000 OB with 35K miles, but am waiting for one of Costco's usually twice-a-year $50 (or $75?) off coupons on a set of 4 Michelins. I got burned on the Sienna -- the coupon came out the week after I plunked down my money!
I will probably go with MXV4s, which Costco has as the MXV4+XSE. Is that one of the "decontented" tires that has been mentioned? Or is it just a special designation model number (that Costco gets just because it can) but that is the same as the MXV4+ sold at other tire stores?
Price out-the-door (tires, new stems/valves, mounting, balancing, road hazard, free balancing and rotation) for set of four is $547.96 ($136.99 each).
--K9Leader

cptplt

in the Chicago area they are having 10 bucks off any tire till June.

hypov

K9Leader-
Same thing.
XSE = their pet name for whatever technology they are using.
Anyway, they are good tires. Just let them break-in first before attempting any spirited driving. ;-)

I think now the Energy MXV4+ is upgraded with a Energy MXV4+ S8.

-Dave

K9Leader

Yes, I have them on my 1994 Mark VIII, and have been very pleased. They are pricey, but I am a strong believer in paying for quality tires. Those four little contact patches are mighty important! An extra $150 is money well spent if it gives you greater control and helps protect property and lives.
--Rob aka K9Leader

wired1

I can't seem to access the online editions of Drive Magazine. Does anyone know if Subaru will be continuing this magazine. I have always enjoyed them.

subearu

http://www.mypersonaldrive.com/ (the site for Drive Magazine) seems to be not functioning this morning. I'd try it later and see if they've got it back up and running.

I haven't heard of any plans to cancel Drive, so I imagine it's just a server down or something like that.

-Brian

kullenberg

For Juice, Paisan and/or Bob Holland; today I was driving my mother's 99 OB ( MT ) down the mtn. and it felt like the brakes had failed. At first I thought I had my big foot on both gas and brake but not the case. I would hit the brakes, and there would be a slight, initial decel, with good pedal pres, and then the car would accel. slightly ( mostly due to the downgrade.) The only way I got it slowed was thru the use of the gears and emerg. brake. This is quite a grade, approx 2000' drop in 3 miles. The strange thing is that at very slow speeds the brakes seemed normal. Perhaps there is a threshold where the ABS drops out. My inclination is to suspect the ABS box, releasing all pres. to the pucks. I did a search, here, and there was some discussion about a seemingly similar failure, but it degenerated into a "flame" session. I've left it with a mechanic at the bottom of the mtn., who's done work for me in the past - will see what he says. Any thoughts from you guys?
Cheers
(a shaken)Pat

bkaiser1

I've got these on my 01 OB now and love them. On a test track, they might not rate as high as the Dunlop SP Sports that I replaced, but in real world driving, they are fantastic. Ride quality far surpasses the OEM Firestones and the set of Dunlops I had, and the snow traction seems to be better (they were new, though, during the last storm).

In talking with Discount Tire, the "XSE" designation was on the OEM-supplied tires and is an acronym some of the technology that Michelin uses...I can't remember what the website said it was, but it's all marketing anyway.

Expensive tires, but so far I feel they are worth every penny.

Brian

rsholland

There have been a few reported cases of WRX/abs problems, but this is the first time I've heard of the Outback being affected.

I would certainly contact your Subaru dealer, and get it checked out. Be as detailed with your description of the occurance as possible. Put it in writing while your memory is still fresh, which you can pass on to your Subie dealer.

Bob

fibber2

"acrylic hood deflector on timberline green" I agree, it does look sharp. Hopefully you were given the new P/N deflector, which required you to remove the grill and add a center strap. It holds it more securely and replaced the original that I had on my '02 timberline OBW that stress cracked.

Steve

vtec_2003

 I bought a 2003 4 cyl legacy outback back in January. Since then my average city rating has been 18 miles per gallon. I drive very conservatively and check to make sure my tires are inflated properly. Has anyone fared better? What are some feasible fuel mileage ranges?Could there be a problem? Any tips on improving fuel economy? I also wanted to get the subaru gold warranty but 2000 plus for 7 years /100k miles is a bit steep. Has any been able to get a better rate?

kullenberg

Thanks for your reply. ABS brakes are a result of technology in the aircraft industry. In simple terms, they depend on wheel speed sensors to tell the computer that a wheel is skidding ( ie. not turning). I think I had a wheel sensor go out, which the computer sees as a skid, and releases brake pressure. So far, the mechanic has not found anything, but I think he has not gone above the ABS cutout threshold ( 20 mph or so). All in all, this has been a day to remember!!!!
Cheers
Pat

dougb10

My wife and I are retired. She has a '97 Subaru Outback Limited with 60,000 km. (about 37,000 miles) on it.
The car has been dealer maintained and has been virtually trouble free. Oil changes have been done every 4,000 km. and the rad fluid has been changed twice....the automatic tranny fluid will be changed for the second time next month.
We want to keep this car for at least three more years. It was rustproofed when we bought it new, and has a yearly re-spray. There is not a mark on the car, apart from a few stone chips which have been touched up.
I am admittedly a fussy guy and enjoy keeping our two cars clean and well maintained (the other car is an '03 Camry XLE).
The question for you Subie gurus...is there anything particular I should be paying attention to over the next three years? It has the original Michelin's on the car and these will be replaced before next winter. Everything else is original....brakes, exhaust and so on.
I am not looking for trouble but want to ensure I have the bases covered. We love this car and will most likely get another Outback when the time comes.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Doug

paisan

I'd have the brakes flushed. Sounds like they cooked the fluid. Basically I recommend everyone Flush their fluid every 2-3years due to moisture build up. On a steep grade like that you can build up a lot of heat and boil the moisture out of the fluid causing air pockets that then result in no-brake pressure.

-mike

c_hunter

The symptoms you describe make me think of brake fade, where braking power diminishes as the brakes heat up.

Are the pads in good shape, or possibly in need of replacement?

Craig

(old deflector on my Timberline Green wagon looks good too!)

cptplt

takes a few thousand miles for the engine to loosen up,it should get better than 18mpg once that happens though if its real bumper to bumper city driving that may be as good as it gets in town!

for discount prices on the subaru ext warranty try subaruwarranty.com and subaruwrxparts.com

outback_97

Well, your '97 has about 60K miles less than mine... it's still breaking in! Here's what's happened on mine, overall a great car so far, but it seems these things are somewhat common:

I've had problems with rotors... had to replace once and turn a few times. Lots of canyon and city driving, though.

Oil leaks: Oil pump gasket leaks, you'd see it seeping thru the timing belt cover at the bottom. Valve cover gasket leak. Usually leaks occur at pressurized locations and are small... you see or smell them on the engine, not puddled on the ground below.

Alternator went... that was a recall.

My power steering pump died, that's not too common.

Most problems were post 75K miles, as would be expected. That's about it for mine.

The engine doesn't like being overheated, keep on top of cooling system maintenance, sounds like you are maintaining it well. Some have had head gasket problems, but certainly not all.

utahsteve

stever

Keep in touch - I just picked up a '97 Outback Limited last month. It now has 38,000 miles on it.

Steve, Host

idahodoug

Wow, where did you find such a low mile vehicle? I still have you beat on a low mile '97 Sube (Legacy L) at 32,000 however. Heh. (bought with 23,000 one year ago exactly).

IdahoDoug

idahodoug

A lot more information would be a good thing. Where on the descent did this happen - first brake application? Near the end? After several minutes of heavy braking? Any brake pulsing or steering wheel jiggling? Any lights on the dash? What condition are the pads/brake fluid (ever flushed)? How much pressure were you putting on the pedal - massive quad-shaking pressure, or did you merely note normal pressure was not stopping you and immediately go in to emergency mode with the parking brake and gears?

I'll disagree with your theory on a wheel sensor as failure would not cause constant ABS engagement in the 'skid' mode. If some major ABS system failure occured, the system would shut down and illuminate a light on the dash. Then, you'd merely have normal brakes like we've all been driving before ABS - push on the pedal and you stop. Lots of codes would also be stored in the OBDII system

IdahoDoug

jlemole

I did have to remove the grill to install the hood deflector, but when you say there is a center "strap", do you mean a metal bracket (or tab?) that tucks under the hood between the hood and the grill? I'm assuming I have the new and improved version based on the above.

Thanks, Jon.

dougb10

Thanks for the feedback. The alternator was also replaced under the recall. It was done automatically by the dealer when it was in for an oil change. I had not had any problems with it.
We also had an oil leak at the separator plate, which required dropping the transmission. This was done under warranty just before the 5 year power train warranty expired, so I was lucky as this was a rather expensive job.
Our '97 also has the original battery so I am keeping an eye on that. Will have the brakes serviced next month and change the fluid too.
These are still great looking cars and I have had several people ask if we want to sell it...it is white with dark grey leather.