Subaru Legacy/Outback

ateixeira

Personally, I find the Bean a better value.

But the VDC has a rear-drive bias that would be fun, plus it a high-tech tour de force.

-juice

K9Leader

My 2000 OB Ltd wagon has just over 35K -- I bought it two months ago with 32K on it. The OEM tires have a little life left in them, but not much. Also, one has a half-dollar sized chunk out of the sidewall (guy I bought it from clipped a snow-covered curb on the day he sold it to me). So I bought it planning to do the tires sometime soon.
I've decided to go with Michelin MXV4+XSE -- available at Costco and with a $60 off on set of four coupon good next week. I have been pleased with the MXV4 on my other cars and have seen good comments from others on this board who have them. They are pricey, but I believe in getting the best quality tires possible -- engine, brakes, and AWD are meaningless if the tires don't hold.
K9Leader

babaoriley

I just replaced the tires on my 00 OB during Costco's last sale. I looked at the MXV4 but ended up choosing BFGoodrich Touring T/A VR/4 instead. They were over $150 less (even with the $60 coupon) and read good reviews on them. I've also had Comp T/A's on other cars with good success. So far they've performed very well in dry and wet with much less sidewall flex than stock. Smooth and quiet ride also. Haven't tried in snow yet.

On another note, while browsing Subaru's site (in anticipation of the new Legacy) I noticed the Legacy 2.5 GT is now available with a performance muffler for $375. No other models offer. Anyone have any experience/knowledge? Does this mean more performance parts may be available? Of course with the new Legacy models, there isn't quite the necessity.

-Brett

wlai

I'd like to get a AWD wagon for around $10K. AWD, ABS, and any safety features like side air bags, stability controls, etc., are important to me, as are rear seat rooms for car seat. Reliability is what I'm after as well. Does anyone have a recommendation on which year/model of Subaru I should look into? Suggestions for other makes are also welcomed. Thanks

ncvol

I'd try to get some quotes from your local dealer on both. I did that back in January and the quote I got on the VDC was only $400 more than the one for the Bean, despite the much higher sticker price. If that holds up, it's a no-brainer for the VDC, IMO.

sebberry

I hope they keep the 4 spoke steering wheel like the one in the existing Outback with the wood.

I am not a fan of the three spoke wheel in the new legacy photos.

We shall see

dbow

Seeing the post that Larry has had problems AFTER getting his car serviced by Subaru at 120k is going to keep me up at night. My '98 GT wagon has 117k and the $600 quote for the service is an issue. Maybe I'll just skip it and continue with the 3k oil changes...

In all those miles only two issues: Engine oil leak and a rear wheel bearing died. Car runs like new with the auto and 2.5 DOHC--suspension is even still OK, body and interior still tight. If it ain't broke, why...?

As for style and handling, I love the flat roof, looks sleeker. I'm considering getting a second new Subie and drove the offerings. The Outbacks, and "L's" still leave me a little seasick after pogo-ing around the hills. I feel I'd roll one outdueling the local "rice burners", so The GT is still my pick.

DB

otis123

Greg,

The ratings on Tirerack got me interested in the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S's. They were excellent in all categories. How could that be? Tires excel in some areas, but trade off in others. But as I researched them I realized they have a unique design that blends all the +'s from each type of tire category - performance, touring, winter, hydroplaning, etc.

I never thought I would ever spend that much on tires - I think they came to $150. bal./mounted/ etc. w/ a BJs coupon, plus tax. (I've been buying BFGoodrich Touring T/As H rated for years.) But they are amazing - I mean amazing in rain, dry cornering, every condition (can't personally say about snow). The are also quiet. They may be a tiny bit harder riding than the Firestones because they are thicker tires (not wider, but thicker rubber) - and a little little less plyable (I say alittle because I'm riding them at 32 - whereas the firestones were at 30psi).

Bottom line, if they get 30K (and they are good in snow which others here have said they are) I'll buy 'em again. My drive Sat. on the flooded FDR and Major Deagan felt like I imagine a drive in a Hummer would feel. Invincible (but w/out the arrogance, pollution, and poor handling!). The very knowledgeable BJs tire manager (he orders some performance tires for customers that run over $400. a pop) said he thinks I can get 30K+ if I rotate every 5K.

We'll see... and I'll keep reporting on wear, etc. I think they have 4.5K now...

Ralph

dcab

I put them on my 97 Outback and have been very happy with them. I've put about 20k miles on them and they've worn down to 7/32nds. I drove them through the first two winters I had them, but got BF Goodrich winter tires this November. I got them both at BJs and they do the switchovers for free.

jfl

I did my 60k tune-up myself. If you look at everything that needs to be done, it sounds like a lot. But none of it is really hard. If you change your own oil, you can change tranny and diffy fluid. (see general maint & repair II for tips)

The other secret is "you don't have to do it all at once". I took several months doing a bit every third weekend or so. I was at 55k when I started with changing the plugs, finished it recently at 67k replacing the brake fluid. Was planning to replace the (original) pads but there's still 40% of the lining left.

A dealer did a minor auto tranny recall item on my wife's Jeep. Right after that - rear diffy leak! Hmmm?

Jim

tfoshbone

I'm looking to buy some manuals for my 99 legacy ob. Who's books are better subie's or the other guys? Also have any of you tried synthetic oil or fluids with good results? thanks T

jlemole

I recently switched to Mobil 1 about 1800 miles ago (at 19k) on my 02 Outback wagon. Everything seems o.k. so far. I think the real advantage will be in easier winter startups. As soon as I get the time, I intend to switch the tranny and differentials over to Amsoil.

As for your 99, it may depend on how many miles you have already, and your driving habits. For example, I still had relatively low miles, I drive a ton (28k/year)and wanted to lengthen time between changes, and I need to get a lot of miles out of the car over the long haul.

Jon

fibber2

The Subi manuals are a bit hard to read (rather disorganized writing), but very comprehensive. You cannot match the depth of info with an aftermarket book. Problem is they are also very expensive (like $400 or so for the full set).

With your '99, you have a choice. There are no aftermarket publications for the newer Subaru products.

Steve

ateixeira

Not me, I prefer the 3 spoke, it centers more naturally.

-juice

storyteller

This is a followup on posts 8490 and 8500. The aftermarket Alpine radio/CD player I recently had installed had terrible FM radio reception. After several of you told me you got good reception in your OBs, Paisan posted to say some printed in-glass antennae need to have the "power antenna" wire hooked up because it connects to a booster. A radio installer, seeing no power antenna, usually wouldn't hook that wire up.

When I suggested that to my installer, his initial response was to get hissy because "these guys on the internet are not electronics experts." But when I picked up my car after he'd looked into the problem, he politely reported, "It works beautifully now. It was just what you said it was, sir."

Thanks guys. Thanks Paisan. And let this be a heads-up for anyone who puts an aftermarket radio in an OB.

Steve

ateixeira

I guess these guys on the internet are electronics experts! ;-)

Hey, we just share experience and knowledge, that's the whole point!

-juice

fibber2

Great success story. Mike saves the day!

Steve

tfoshbone

jlemole thanks on engine oil advice. I used mobile one on infinity I have works great! Only problem if you have any weak spots in gaskets it will find leak. I am also curious about synthetic tranny fluid?

Steve I inquired at dealer on books. they list 3 at $50 something each. I Know I don't want all 3 Just engine and drive train, but dealer didn't know which is which. thanks for help T

francophile

Three words: Save Your Money.

You will not see any horsepower or torque improvement, you may have a somewhat different exhaust note, and you will have that pretty chrome tip. If you think that's worth $375 be my guest. Otherwise save your money.

rgds,
-wdb

rob999

Maybe lightening your wallet shaves excess weight

ncvol

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/ly/05legacy.htm

jlemole

T: If you do a search on (I believe) the general maintenance board, there were some discussions a while back on synth tranny fluid. Mobil 1, Amsoil and Redline all make acceptable ATF.

However, many people on these boards will also tell you that as long as you drain and fill regularly (at least every 30k), dino ATF is just as effective (and cheaper). For me, however, it's a question of getting every advantage I can to get high mileage out of my car. So, I'll be making the switch, and keep the same tranny drain and fill intervals.

In the motor, however, I'm using Mobil 1 10w30 with a 5k change interval.

Jon

twhan

The wife and I finally decided to get a base subaru outback wagon. We went to the dealership and they had three timberline green autos. This is the only color we both like. We settled a pretty good price and thought we gonna get the car we want. However, the first one we testdroved was pulling to the right pretty bad and I had to force the steering wheel all the time to keep it straight on the highway, the dealer didn't believed it's a problem and said this is how AWD behaves(really??). Finally after a testdrive with me, they immediately offered me to try the other one; the second one had a high-pitch noise hurting our ears and the cabin was really load; the alignment of third one is still a little off, the side cladding is cracking and the dealer wanted $400 more for the options we don't like. Finally we walked out without using our checkbook. Now I started to agree with one of the previous post regarding the poor initial quality and the J.D Power survey low rating. All of them have a manufaturing date of April, 2003. I have been thinking about subaru for a long time and have decided to go with outback over the CR-V and accord. But I may need to think it again.

c_hunter

Sounds like that dealer may not be prepping their cars properly. The alignment issue is likely due to improperly inflated tires (ie, not even side to side). Dealers usually overinflate the tires to keep from getting flat spots while sitting on the lot, and it would not surprise me if some careless tech didn't make it even side to side.

AWD cars do drift if the road is highly crowned, but it should not be as bad as what you mention.

If I was in your position, I would be tempted to try another dealer. I did not buy from the first two Subaru dealers I visited either due to poor customer relations or bad pricing. I found another dealer, and have bought 3 Subarus from them in recent years. It's been a great experience each time.

Also, if you really liked the first wagon you drove, ask them to check the tire pressure and alignment, and take it out for another drive. Those are two minor adjustments that should not be discouraging you from buying the car. Clearly, however, it's up to the dealer to get it right; it's not your responsibility! I think they blew a sale.

Craig

twhan

Thanks for your comments. I still don't understand why they don't even try to fix the first one, or do anything to the noise on the second one. They just said everything is under warranty and I can always come back to fix it, which doesn't make sense to me. The whole point of buying a new car is to avoid the hassle of fixing the old ones.

hypov

Hmmm if they fix it it cuts into their wallet.
If you bought it and take it back to fix, then they charge it to SoA and spare their wallet.
Don't think I'm too far off from making sense.

-Dave

c_hunter

You're exactly right. I wouldn't take a new car off the lot if it had any obvious problems. Those should be fixed/resolved before the test drive, and certainly prior to delivery. It's their responsibility to make sure the car is right, not yours.

Craig

paisan

I was glad to find that info before doing the aftermarket stereo on the Trooper, so just kept it stored up in the back of the old noggin

-mike

sweetpauline

We considering buying one, preferably as basic as possible. Basically hauling capablility is what were concerned with. So my question is what is the insider's scoop on these cars. Any common problems. I have never heard anything bad about any particular subaru, but then again I've never owned any subarus either. So help me out. Tell me if its a worthy used vehicle.

mrk610

I was drooling over the sport a/s and I noticed the continental extreme tires . They seem to have the same ratings as the sport a/s . I was wondering if anyone has tried these .

mike

ateixeira

twhan: keep in mind CR-Vs are known for pulling to the right, they've even abbreviated it PTTR since the phrase gets used often.

pauline: the "basic" model in 98 was the Legacy Brighton. If you can find one, they were very inexpensive and simple, and their 2.2l engine was quite reliable, perhaps even more than some newer powertrains.

Next up came the L, which added ABS IIRC. A GT would be pricier, but add some nice features. In your case, look for an L or Brighton, they should work.

-juice

K9Leader

I put Michelin MXV4+XSEs all the way around on my 2000 OB yesterday. Much quieter than the Firestones, which had noticeable road rumble, and had taken to squealing on sharp corners, even at fairly low speeds. They had gone 36K and could have gone a bit longer, but I knew that their ability to grip was no longer within my comfort level.

The MXV4s were expensive, but I used a $60 off coupon for a set of four at Costco. They are very good tires, and the price includes lifetime balancing, rotation, repairs. I have been very happy with the level of service at Costco on my previous tires purchased there.

I noticed they hand-torqued the lug nuts -- good thing as I had forgotten to mention that I wanted them hand-torqued. It appears that they do that in all instances, as I heard no airgun noises the entire time I was observing/listening.

--K9Leader

dudleyr

It does not seem right that the old tires started to squeel. Tires get more grip as they wear out not less. What they do lose is their wet traction. Maybe the tire pressure was too low.

Anyway the Michlins are good tires.

nygreg

I always went to them until recently. They lost my confidence as I believe they jacked up my Sienna wrong and flexed the body slightly. Nothing I can prove. They do use torque wrenches and have torque charts all over to reference. However, I did notice the manager jerking the torque wrench while tightening the lug nuts in a circular pattern (not star). Not the correct method.

Greg

fibber2

Tire change with wear and age. New tire rubber is soft and supple, providing high grip even though the contact patch is the smallest. You are correct in that as they wear, siping closes, increasing the contact patch area. But the rubber changes as well. Sunlight and road friction heat drives out plasticizers (sp?), & ozone oxides the rubber. Compounds are sometimes blended, placing softer material at the top, firmer material at the base for strength and squirm control. Bottom line is that they tend to get less grippy & noiser as they age.

Steve

francophile

Due to the wide differences in tire construction, tread design and rubber compounds -- not to mention the effects of uneven tire wear -- I would be wary of making blanket statements about what happens to a tire's noise and handling characteristics as the tread wears and the tires age. For example, a tire of a certain brand and age, whose outer edges are worn down excessively, might generate squealing noises at the slightest provocation; the same tire of the same age which has worn evenly across its tread may not make a peep.

My Legacy's original equipment RE-92's got louder, handled quite a bit better in the dry, and handled QUITE a bit worse in the wet (I could tell tales about the tail end breaking loose under -very- mild cornering in wet weather), as they neared the end of their useful lives. I expect the Bridgestone RE950's that are now on the car to behave differently as they wear. They have dual compound rubber in the tread; softer, hydrophilic material will come to the surface as the tire wears, the goal being to maintain wet weather traction despite the shallower tread. I hope that happens (the tires are not yet half worn), and who knows what effect that rubber will have on tire noise.

Regards,
-wdb

outbike

Hello All -

I own a 96OB w/ 113K and it still runs like a champ. I will be relocating to Bethesda, MD (Wash DC Metro area)from Nashville in August and will need a good dealer to keep the Subaru running strong. Any MD folks out there that can make a recommendation?

Thanks,
Outbike

ateixeira

We have lots and lots of competition here (I can think of 7 off the top of my head), so you'll be in Subaru heaven, at least as far as purchasing a Subaru goes.

The catch is it's there is a high cost of living here, so service prices tend to be high. I do the service myself, so I can't recommend any particular place.

-juice

schiza

They just replaced my 03 ll bean because it was stalling. The new model has stalled twice with 800 miles. This time I believe it's the ECU because the electrical power stay's after it stalls unlike before and I noticed that the idle is a bit rough compared to our 1st LL Bean. Bringing it back to the dealership. No luck with these LL Bean's. Though I do believe this should be an easy fix. The saga conitnues.

idahodoug

Just a quick word on your Sienna fears. There is no way to bend the frame/body on the vehicle by jacking, so rest easy. Every day while you drive, the frame/body is subject to more force than jacking it up can possibly create. For example, the worst thing they could do would be to jack up one corner and keep jacking until 3 wheels were in the air. This would put all vehicle weight on the two opposite corners for maximum flexing. Even the worst unibody design can handle this without even breaking a sweat. There would be a bit of flex, but no bending, and it would return to normal shape upon putting it back on all four wheels.

Sometimes, unibody vehicles get dents and bent sheetmetal right around the jacking points, but this is normal and does not affect the rest of the structure at all.

The torque wrench would bother me, but don't lose any sleep over the flex issue.

IdahoDoug

nygreg

Thanks for the comforting info. After they installed the wheels, it feels like the driver's door closes every so slightly off. The gas filler door has been harder to close since then also, although this doesn't make sense. When I was there a couple of times ago, another customer showed me his door after they worked on it and it didn't close correctly. He said it was fine before he brought the car in. Just paranoid I guess.

Greg

goosegog

I thought I'd do my own oil change on Erfie. To my surprise I found that the car will not go up the ramps I have had for eons, as the bumper strikes the ramps before the wheels get there. I have this problem with my TR8 but that is very low, and I use a couple of bricks in front of each ramp to make it up more gradual.

Have others had this problem? Are my ramps designed too steep? Previous cars have all gone up OK and I'd have thought with its high ground clearance there'd be no problem. But it seems the overhang at the front is just too far ahead of the wheels.

subearu

FWIW, I have a set of Rhino Ramps that work fine for both my Outback and MPV.

-Brian

zman3

I don't know if the 00's are any different or not, but on my 98 I don't even need to put the car up. Everything is easily reachable from under the front bumper.

paisan

And just place the plywood on the rampdown part to support the car. We have this often with lowered WRXs in our work.

-mike

sebberry

I happened to notice that you made a post a while back about the Subaru AVCS being more like the BMW VANOS system as opposed to the Honda i-vtec system.

Do you by any chance know of any websites that I may be able to find descriptions of how the systems compare?

Thanks...

otis123

Anyone have any info on the 2005 Subaru SUV that is supposed to come out???

Ralph

rsholland

Are you thinking of the 7-passenger crossover? I think that's gong to be an '06 model.

For MY2005 we'll be getting an all-new Legacy and Outback. It should be here this time next year.

Bob

ateixeira

Hmm, we discussed the topic in Subaru Crew - Future Models a while back, if you want to do a search. The info might have been from the JDM site, we usually get Ken to translate and Colin to fill us in on whatever they left out.

But forget the tech-speak, go drive a Forester XT, that engine is blessed with gobs of torque all over the rev band. I was shocked at how quick it was, and I was already expecting it to be fast!

-juice

rlastar

I have a 2003 Outback Limited Wagon.

I need a roof carrier but don't feel like spending around $400 for the Subaru brand. What are my other choices?

Thanks