Subaru Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    I'd seperate the two out. The diff protector is nice if you spend a lot of time on rough tracks/gravel roads, and it's cheap and easy to install. I remember a large rock on a nice gravel road put a huge dent in the underbody of my dads Mazda. If it had hit the differential on a Subaru that would be a problem. I high centered the differential on our old Subaru on packed snow/ice which fortunately gave a little.

    The front skid plate might be overkill unless you are rallying your car and it is a lot more expensive.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Our driveway is a little tricky, at the end there is a hidden curve on one side of it towards the bottom. We've had 3 different visitors high center there. I guess the oil pan usually takes the brunt of it.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    My diffy protector is there to help protect the diff from the bicycles and chalk constantly left at the end of my driveway. :)

    Greg
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    Oh yeah, Greg! Man, they make some big chalk these days. My kids have these mega super chalk "chunks". You could hurt someone with them!

    Jon
  • taomantaoman Member Posts: 14
    I have a 2003 Outback wagon. Does anyone know if there is room for a full-size spare tire if I remove the tool tray that fits beneath the floor in the cargo area on top of the temporary spare tire. I really hate those temporary spare tires and would feel better, especially for long road trips, if I had a full-size spare tire. I wish Subaru would equip the Outback with a full-size spare tire, like they do with the Forester.

    Neil
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I believe some have tried and no, it does not fit. Apparently it's very close, 215/60R16 tires from Aussie Outbacks do fit, but that's the very limit.

    Legacy tires are smaller, I fit a full-sizer easily.

    -juice
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    There isn't room for a tire that matches (225/60-16). The largest that fits is a 215/60-16 which is the Forester's tire size and also original equipment on Australian Outbacks (maybe other non - North America countries also). Both the Forester and at least the Austrialian Outbacks come with full size spares.

    But, for on road situations, a full size spare on an AWD car is not really much better than a donut. A full size spare would still be limited use because ALL four tires need to match within 1/4" (or is it 1/2"; can never remember) of circumference. You would still need to put a fuse in the FWD slot on A/T Subarus.

    Off road and sand is a different story.

    I know this is a personal thing but how often do people actually use that spare that they're carrying around? I haven't used one since around... I can't even remember. Sometime prior to 1985 would be my guess.

    DaveM
  • ffsteveffsteve Member Posts: 243
    I can't remember for sure, but last time I used a spare has to be well over 10 years. When I have problems they are slow leaks that give pleanty of warning before I have to have the tire repaired or replaced.

    Steve
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I used one about two months ago, when my son's Impreza Outback picked up a nail.

    Bob
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    I had not used a spare for ten years until New year. I then had three flats in two months (two of them at same time). It reminds me of the Tomato Sauce bottle - None'll come and then a lot'll.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • oregonajoregonaj Member Posts: 21
    DaveM

    Would you please explain your reference to putting "a fuse in the FWD slot on A/T Subarus"?
    I've never heard of that.

    Thanks, JimH
  • grovercgroverc Member Posts: 34
    I just bought an 03 Legacy sedan. I am very pleaseed with the car, but I have been reading about numerous problems with head gaskets. Does anyone know if this is still an issue with the 2.5 SOHC engine? Also, what are other weaks ares with the Legacy I should be aware of?

    Thanks.
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    Do you have any way to take photos of the terrain transversed by your Outback? I'd be interested to know what the limitations are.

    oregonaj:

    Automatic Subaru's (except I think for the Outback VDC) have a space in the fuexbox where you can put in a FWD fuse. This turns off the AWD circuit, and power will only be sent to the front wheels, no matter how much slippage there is.

    This is used mainly for diagnosis by your dealer, and in some cases when you have a spare tire on.

    I was thinking that, one rainy night when traffic is light, I will place the fuse in and see what a difference the AWD makes on the Outback.

    This is not available on standard transmissions because they use a viscous fluid that, when there is a speed difference in the front and rear axles, thickens and "locks" the front and rear together.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Jim,

    I'm not Dave, but he and I share both knowledge of this Sube feature, and also first and last initials.

    The way torque gets sent from the front wheels to the rear is via an electrohydraulic clutch that determines how much through the level of current. To prevent damage from a tire that is not the correct size, the automatic models can be temporarily converted to FWD only, by inserting an ordinary fuse in a box labeled "FWD". My box is near the firewall on the passenger side. Completing this circuit with a fuse causes zero torque to be sent to the rear tires. As a result, the electrohydraulic clutch will not constantly be working. It can be driven this way indefinitely.

    I recently used this feature to diagnose rear CV joint troubles on our pastor's Sube, and before that to drive a Sube with the rear driveshaft removed for towing cross country. Never heard of it on any other AWD vehicle - nice to have.

    IdahoDoug (aka DJM)
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    This goes into the "Oh, bother!" category as I just finished typing a long post to answer your question when I lost the lot. I will repost in bulet pont

    No digital camera, hence I have to scan 35mm to show you the countryside. I am not too sure how to do this onto the web but will welcome advice.

    Outback is good on formed tracks, fire trails and in farm paddocks. Ground clearacne of 200mm (8") is better than many more serious 4WD. Key constraint is rear overhang making sharp grade transitions difficult. Front bumper is also a bit low. In Australia, the low range is uesful in the manual but auto is very good. climbing ability is surprisingly good.

    Ultimate fording ability of the Outback is lower than a genuine off-roader but if you can wade it comfortably on foot, the car will go across as well. However, if you are being pushed badly by the river flow on foot. find another way around as the pressure on the car's side wil be substantial.

    My brother in law has a full on Toyota Landcruiser (which he genuinely does use off road) and is constantly amused at finding groups of Subarus miles deep in the bush, cruising serious back tracks.

    Most tracks described as 4WD are capable of 2WD access, if driven by a competent and careful driver. In general, the technique is slow and avoiding the deeper holes.

    Carry a spade and in-fill the deeper holes with material from the high spots. Drain deeper pot holes and check for depth by walking through.

    Carry an axe to clear fallen vegetation up to about 100mm (4"). Above that size, it is too much like hard work unless you have a chain saw.

    Carry a winch or know how to form a Spanish Windlass with a heavy rope. It may sound silly but a pair of the ratchet type trailer tie down straps that can exert a force of 1000lb are quite good for pulling a car out of a bog and dragging trees etc out.

    Knowing how to use the car jack and the alternative jacking point on the car, can be critical for serious extrications. The spare wheel can be used as a large hole filler to drive over if neceassary. An old hessian bag also forms a web across soft mud if reinforced with light branches and traveresed very slowly.

    I've not actually got the Outback bogged in the past four years. This is the first time I have owned a car without being stuck at least occassionally so it must be doing something better.

    Hope that helps

    Cheers

    Graham
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Thanks sebbery and Doug for explaining to JimH the why's and how's of the FWD fuse.

    The FWD fuse holder is located near the firewall on the passenger side (as Doug stated) on '95 to '99 Legacies / Outbacks. It's located in the underhood fuse box on the driver's side behind the strut tower on '00 to '04. Insert any amperage fuse into the slot to disable power to the rear wheels.

    sebbery - I had my '96 OBW in FWD mode and it's a handful even on dry roads. I noticed quite a bit of torque steer and tire spinning unless you go easy on the throttle.

    DaveM
  • oregonajoregonaj Member Posts: 21
    To: sebbary, IdahoDoug, DaveM,

    Thanks for the very interesting information of the FWD fuse. If you don't mind one more question, would you suggest using it when the spare (which is an inch less in diameter than the full size tire on my 2003 Outback) is on the rear axle, the front axle or both?

    Thanks again, JimH
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    .. if the donut is "an inch less in diameter", what happens to 5sp Subies???? Won't the center diff try to lock up because it detects "slippage"??? Being mechanical, it can't distinguish a flat tire from a different diameter tire from a tire that's slipping... It would have to bind up pretty severely -- no??
    I always thought the donut was thinner, but had the same diameter as the other wheels for precisely this reason. At least on the Legacy, I was sure of it until I read your post.

    Someone please enlighten us...

    -Mathias
  • oregonajoregonaj Member Posts: 21
    Mathias,

    I'm afraid I can't enlighten you much but I can tell you how I reached the conclusion about the size of the spare -

    When I bought my Outback a week ago I thought that I might be able to get a full size spare in the spare tire well since it looked pretty deep and I could always take out the tray. To check it I took a tire off the car and tried to fit it in the well. To my surprise the diameter of the tire was to much to even start to fit down in the well.

    I then calculated the diameter of the tires and found that the full size tire (225/60R16) is 26.6" in diameter while the spare (145/80R16) is 25.1" (actually a difference of 1.5").

    That's why I was interested in the FWD fuse since the owners manual says not to use different size tires on the car.

    Label me confused, JimH
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    is it's a TEMPORARY use spare. So, as long as you're not driving hundreds of miles with different sized tires, you're probably going to be ok, MT or AT (with fuse in).

    You'd likely only drive far enough on the spare (at 50 mph or less ;-) to get the regular tire repaired. That should be > 100 miles...

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    No offense but you are just wrong here....

    the FWD fuse if only to be used for short-term driving with the spare donut tire on there. Long-term use and/or trailering will result in the AWD unit getting extra wear on it. Towing in this mode should be only done for short-term use as well, seeing as the ignition needs to be in the "on" position you'll quickly kill your battery.

    -mike
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    That's why I'm glad my Legacy GT could fit a FS spare. Even with wear on the other tires say at half their life my unused FS spare is still close to 1/4" dif in circumference. That gives me a lot more comfort trying to find a repair for that flat than using the donut.

    It is unfortunate that Outbacks can't fit a FS spare.

    bit
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    a fullsize spare on trips with me for the SVX.

    -mike
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    In the case of recent 4cyl auto OB's, you have an open front differential, a mechanical limited slip rear diffy, and an electronically actuated proportioning center diffy.

    If you put the smaller diameter spare on either the front or rear (without inserting the fuse), you will (in theory, if you drive far enough under these conditions) tax the drivetrain components.
    If you put it on the rear, you will be fighting both the rear and center diff. If you put it on the front, only fighting the center diff.

    If you insert the fuse, the center diff is disengaged. If you put the small spare on the rear, you will still be aggravating the rear diff, although this amt of slip might not really be a problem. The best solution is to put the spare on the front, where the different diameter will go unnoticed by the open diffy. This might require a double swap in the field, but would be the best for the car's mechanicals.

    Steve
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    If you have any insights to offer on a used 2001-2 LL Bean Outback vs a used Saab 9-5 wagon, we'd appreciate your feedback in our Help me select a Wagons discussion, Post #376. Perhaps you can help snmat (Stephanie) make a decision. Thanks.

    And now, back to the subject of the Subaru Legacy/Outback. ;-)

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I have a 97 OB Ltd. I woke this morning to an almost flat tire - my second in three weeks. Last time was a roofing nail from my roof (recognized it!) and I just pumped the tire up and limped two miles for Les Schwab to fix for free.

    This morning it was a short sheet metal type screw. We had been driving ~200 miles of rough forest service road near Elk City Idaho the last three days, so I had removed my space saver (and tray) in town and threw a winter tire in the wheel well. Same size tire (studded) but it fit the well fine.

    I knew about pulling the fuse, but decided the full size spare was close enough in size to drive the 30 one-lane gravel miles into town (Les was in that town too, so another freebie).

    Steve, Host
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I think you did fine. All of what we wrote is a guide. I am sure that the system is quite robust, and some slip can be tolerated. I am sure that many an owner drives with mismatched tires or mixed inflation pressures, and the drive train soldiers on with few serious failures. Very few real world owners are as OCD as we are!!

    Steve
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You guys are so OCD you stay up half the night wondering whether "OCD" should be capitalized or not <g>.

    Steve, Host
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    one of my brand new (2 weeks) Kumho tires has a nice big, fat srew through the tread. No air loss. Well, Kumho, welcome to Outback country.

    Greg
  • mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    You might want to check out the XM/Sirius Satellite Radio board here at the Town Hall if you haven't already. I've had the Sony plug-n-play unit for over a year now and I'm quite enamored with it. Programming and sound quality are superior to broadcast radio, IMHO. Of course, others disagree that it is worth $10 a month, but it's not for everybody. As far as dead spots, the only dropouts I get are in parking garages and along the north side of tall buildings. Occasionally it drops out under highway overpasses but more often than not it doesn't. I also like being able to bring it into the house. It receives the signal through my roof just fine (it's a wood-frame roof) but oddly drops out when the microwave oven is running.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You said you drove on a gravel road, since there was slippage on the road it won't effect the diffys. It's when people drive em for prolonged periods on dry pavement.

    -mike
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Lots of slippage - it was mostly on a 100 year old wagon road, somewhat maintained since the last wagon crossed it in the 30's.

    The paved portion was less than, oh, 3 or 4 miles.

    The last time I drove a road that rough was on the West Side Highway in the 80's sometime (guess that's all gone or changed now?).

    Steve, Host
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Just drove down the west-side highway @ 80mph (late for work tonight) after doing an install up in westchester.

    -mike
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    OH NO!!! which should it be???

    Sheep #1457, 1458, 1459.....

    Steve
  • oregonajoregonaj Member Posts: 21
    Steve (Host),

    What size was the winter tire you put in your Outback wheel well?

    Thanks, JimH
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The winter tires are P205 70 R15 Goodyear Ultra Grips mounted on "universal" steel rims. Those are the ones with ten lugnut holes.

    The summer tires are the same size (Michelin Radial XW4) mounted on the OEM alloys.

    Mine's a '97 OB ltd. btw.

    Steve, Host
  • bgabel1260bgabel1260 Member Posts: 135
    Why do people regularly complain about the power from the 2.5L flat-4 in the Legacy/Outback? I personally don't find the engine to be underpowered at all; in fact, I am pleasantly surprised by the availablilty of usuable torque at such a wide RPM range. I've always thought that Honda made the best engines but the Phase II 2.5L is making me question that.

    I have 225 miles on my OBW and I'm following the break-in procedure of not exceeding 4000rpm. It's also humid here and I have yet to drive without the A/C. Even with these power-reducing limitations, I find my wagon to be spirited rather than sluggish. I don't find myself saying "damn, why can't this thing go faster?" I should say that I have a 5spd manual rather than the 4spd auto.

    Perhaps power is a problem with people/cargo piled into the car? Or maybe it's that my previous car was an 2.3L Accord which had a 148hp/148lb-ft engine pushing 3000 pounds...the power-to-weight ratios are no worse in the Outback and the low-end torque is superior.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    I didn't tow the AWD Sube with the rear wheels on the ground and key on with fuse in the FWD slot, actually. I removed the rear driveshaft so the rear wheels were disconnected physically from the center diff to avoid wear. But we thought we might need to unload the Sube and drive it here and there in the small towns we passed through, so the FWD slot allowed us to back it on and off the dolly and run short errands. Without this feature, we'd have had to reconnect the rear driveshaft to use the car, then disconnect it to tow. Piece of cake to pull the shaft, BTW.

    I know of no problems with running it that way for considerable distance. The central torque distribution clutch is simply fully open, providing all torque to the front wheels, rather than having the clutch engage to provide varying amounts of power to the rear shaft.

    Comprende', Padre??

    With the 2.2, I didn't really notice any untoward handling behavior. I little more torque steer, yeah.

    IdahoDoug
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Ok you win. But don't complain down the road if you have problems with your AWD system. Just because someone uses their vehicle in a certain way and doesn't have immediate problems, doesn't mean it's right. A big offender of this is people with the incorrect offset on their rims. "-25mm offset works fine on my car, no bearing problems, even though the factory is +35mm"

    Towing with the shaft disconnected is fine, no harm to the system can come that way. And "driving around town" with it in FWD could be somewhat ok, if it's "limited" in use ie: less than 50 miles at a clip.

    But I wouldn't suggest to ANYONE to drive around on a regular or semi-regular basis with the FWD fuse in place. My guess is that perhaps the AWD system is not fully lubricated in the FWD position or some other reason for them to not suggest you do it on a regular basis.

    -mike
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Brian,

    I thoroughly enjoy my 5spd 2000 OBW, however I am one of those that say more power please. It is mainly for when getting on the highway, or passing. Otherwise it is fine. I have even surprised friends who could not believe this is a 4 cyl! I agree it is a world of difference from the Honda Accord- I find the OB much better.

    Mark
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Yep, I agree, my first Outback was a 5-spd 2.5 H4, and I found it to be plently powerful. In fact, it was downright fun to drive. I have driven automatic H4 Outbacks, and was totally underwhelmed, however. Our automatic Forester is just about right, and it would be awesome with a 5-spd.

    Craig
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    as perfectly adequate, but not exciting. It is fine in most driving situations. Only a particularly short uphill on-ramp for the Taconic Pkwy (NYS) requires a little more patience and planning. Otherwise, the total package, for what SoA charges, is a great deal.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The 2.5l does a little better on lighter models, like the Forester. Our Legacy L is more than adequate but our Forester feels even peppier.

    I think AVCS can fix that, plus the next generation is supposed to lose some weight.

    Gaskets on 2003 models have been OK, really the Phase I models were more affected by that. Subaru has been covering those under the powertrain warranty AFAIK.

    We could avoid all this talk about the spare if Subaru would just use the tire sizes they use in Australia, 215/60R16. It's only 10mm more narrow but that fits in the well. It seems silly to give up a full size spare for 10mm width and 6mm ground clearance.

    Brian: congrats on your new ride, welcome to the Subaru Crew.

    -juice
  • dlbensondlbenson Member Posts: 13
    I need to replace my 2001 4 cyl Outback Wagon Tires again. The original Firestones were poor. My 1st replacements, Dunlop A2's improved driving performance but only lasted ~ 22K miles just like the Firestones. Based on Tire Rack browsing I'm considering the Yokohama Avid Touring tires which seem excellent from a value/performance standpoint other than some complaints about high speed wobbling. I'm looking for a tire that will last longer than 22K miles and still perform well in the Northeast (snow). Any comments or recommendations would be appreciated.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nitto NT460s last longer (25k so far and counting) but they are horrible in snow, forget it.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Funny you should mention wobbling with the Avids. I placed a set on my minivan 2 months ago and found a vibration at around 60mph. Returned them and installed Harmony's. Now it was the OB's turn. I had A2's on them and they wore in <25K miles and became very noisey. I just installed Kumho 716s ($53 at tirerack). Not as crisp on handling as the A2s, but are rated as grand touring and not high perf all seasons. So far so good, but no snow feedback yet.

    Greg
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    Howdy, all,

    Finally caught up enough to submit a quick trip report on my 2K OB Wagon (5-spd). Did a 2200-mile loop from Seattle to Bend (OR), Crater Lake, South Lake Tahoe, Yosemite NP, then a dash home up I-5 via Ashland (OR). Crunched the numbers, and I got a wee bit under 31 mpg over the entire trip - varied from 29 on I-5 (with A/C) at 70/75, to a bit over 33 on the Lake Tahoe, Yosemite (100 miles in the park) and 100 miles departing the park - all on 2-laners (no A/C), maybe around 50-60 mph. Darned pleased with that performance - three SOBs, clean configuration, average luggage, lots of enthusiastic mountain pass driving.

    Interestingly, the 33 mpg stretch was the one from Tahoe (altitude 6225) to Yosemite (five passes along the way), within the park driving, and the 2-lane Sonora, CA, departure route (about 400 miles in all). I was impressed with the performance in the mountains, finding 4th was usually good enough to accelerate uphill, except for the very high altitudes (Tioga Pass, the east entrance to Yosemite, is around 9500 feet), where I had to grab third to pass a slowpoke uphill. The car now has around 35K on the clock (just broken in?).

    And, as usual, no problems at all with the vehicle - even managed to get all my California gas for less than $2.00/gallon.

    I must admit, however, that I'm getting to the point in life where I'd like to drive out on vacation in one day, park the car and plant my tush for a week (unpacking only once), and drive home in a day when it's over.

    Oh, and speaking of tush, I have noticed (and recalled others mentioning this earlier) that the driver's seat seems to have become more comfortable with the years. Tush accommodation?!

    Cheers! And let's keep the power on!

    Ken in Seattle
  • ffsteveffsteve Member Posts: 243
    SOB - Soul on Board?

    As opposed to the alternative definition? You made me think.

    Nice report. I wish I could do the same. I've heard a lot of good comments about Bend and want to go there myself sometime.

    Steve
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    and such ...
    with regular rotations I have just over 50,000 on the original Firestones on my 2001 Outback ... a couple weeks ago it was necessary to replace a tire and i chose to replace 2 .. both identical to the originals ...
    (and I've always been told by the men in my life that I'm "hard" on tires ... lol)
    Brenda
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    Remember that all of your tires need to be within 1/4" in circumference. You might want to check the 2 new tires against the 2 with 50k on them.

    bit
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