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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • bgabel1260bgabel1260 Member Posts: 135
    OK, so it sounds like I don't need different tires to do some sand driving...that's good. I may try deflating them because the park has various electric air pumps stationed near the beach access roads. It seems they encourage you to let the air out from the tires.
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Ray,

    I got mine from the dealer.

    See post #5957 in "Subaru Maint & Repair II" for pricing on the 2000 manuals.

    I prefer Haynes to most factory manuals...it's a shame they're not available.

    Jim
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    O.K., now I'm really confused. I have OEM Bridgestone Potenza's on my 02 Outback Wagon. I normally keep them inflated per the pressure listed on the sticker on the driver's doorjamb. A local mechanic was doing some work on my other vehicle (Quest) and told me I had too little air in those tires as well (OEM Goodyears kept at pressure listed on that vehicle's doorjamb also) He said I should keep them at the max pressure listed on the sidewall of the tire to prevent flex and for longer life). That's a big jump in pressure (i.e., from ~32 to ~44). Is he correct on this???

    Jon
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    from your tires .....There's a reason its called MAX tire pressure. Best not to go there without a really great reason, none of which comes to mind.

    Most mfgs try to put a pressure rating on the car that's a good compromise between whats good for the drivetrain (this seems especially true of Subaru's) and good for the tires.

    Ford blew that (sorry - no pun intended) when they basically recommended underinflating the tires on Explorers to get a more car-like ride.

    If you fill your tires to max pressure cold, remember when they warm up they'll exceed max. Plus, they're going to ride hard as a rock and handling will be none too wonderful either.

    Ask that genius the source of his info - in black and white. I'll be happy to eat my words if he can prove it to you.

    HTH
    Larry

    PS - To eat my words requires some mustard and ketchup.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    You will never have to eat those words. Jon's mechanic needs a refresher course in the basics!

    AAA and others have sometimes suggested 1-2 lbs over the doorjam/glovebox sticker in the interest of fuel economy. It is also something to consider if you will have the vehicle heavily loaded or driving under very hot conditions. Both can raise internal tire temps, increasing the chance of delamination. Ultimately, the tire remains a bit cooler if the pressure is up just a bit as it reduces the contact patch. But too much affects wear patterns, handling, shock absorption to the tire carcass. And on an AWD vehicle there is the issue of matching circumference.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    44psi is like driving on 4 rocks.

    Try 30-33psi, experiment and see what you feel comfortable with. Just never go below 26psi on pavement, they'll heat up rather quickly.

    -juice
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Max pressure will not harm your tires. They are designed to run at that pressure taking into account warming up. The only dissadvantage of high pressure is a harsh ride - so your backside may be harmed. With high pressure, your vehicle will handle better (stiffer sidewalls), will get better mileage (less rolling resistance), the tires will last longer (less heat because there is less flex as you drive), and will be safer (again less heat - heat is what makes tires break down).

    Ever look at pickup tires - the more pressure you put in them the more load they can take.

    Remember skinny little bike tires go up to 120 psi, 44 is really not that much pressure. Most H rated tires are 44 psi and most S rated tires are 35. Pickup tires can go up to 60 or 80 psi.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You'll wear the middle of the tread faster than the outer edges. They're not designed to remain at the max pressure all the time.

    -juice
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Increasing tire pressures by 2-4psi improves handling as it reduces sidewall flex. Going way beyond that probably makes handling worse as you start bouncing around. It's especially bad on FWD cars with little weight on the rear axle.

    Jim
  • alpaxalpax Member Posts: 5
    Hi everybody,

    I've been driving my Outback H6-3.0 for a year now. I really love it!
    The only thing bothers me - the fuel consumption is too high. It's about 15 liters per 100km (only 15-16mpg!) in the city.
    I thought it might be because of my kind of aggressive driving and always working climate control, but I tried to switch the c/c off, accelerate more gently, and didn't find a big difference in the gas mileage. Used different brands of fuel (Esso, Chevron...) - all the same. I always use premium (91), tried regular just a couple of times.
    I asked my dealer about this - they also blamed the climate control, but looks like that's something else. I'm having the next service soon and will ask them again, but maybe someone has an idea what's wrong with my car?

    Thanks.
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    O.k., o.k., I got it now. The mechanic's plain wrong on this tire pressure issue. I'm gonna go air down those Goodyears tonight. Good thing I took his advice with a grain of salt (no pun intended to Larry, who will not have to eat his words with ketchup... Thanks all!

    Jon
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There are so many variables, traffic being #1 among them.

    We're talking about tire pressures, and that should be the first thing to check. Try a higher pressure than you have now, maybe 32 or 33psi.

    It's new so I kind of doubt a fuel filter is clogged. The plugs and wires should also be OK, have you had any other symptoms, i.e. hesitation, rough idle, etc.?

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Pickup tires are load range C or greater, and are designed for the heavier load with corresponding higher inflation pressures.

    Steve
  • alpaxalpax Member Posts: 5
    2 ateixeira:
    I didn't get first that's an answer to me :) The message board should have 'Answer' button with automatic subject substitution...

    The traffic is not heavy in our city, I don't need to drive to downtown frequently, so I don't think this is the case.

    I'll try a higher pressure as you recommend. Actually I already thought about that while reading this discussion :)

    I think it might be something wrong with fuel filter or the pump. I already had a problem with the pump some time ago. Sometimes the engine could not start on the first try. The mechanics in the dealership could not resolve this for three months! Finally they replaced the fuel pump and the problem had gone. But I'm afraid something is still wrong there...
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    Is there a way to reset the ECU to see if it can 'relearn' based on driving requirements. For instance, if you've been an aggressive driver and you want to drive more conservatively, would it help to reset the ECU somehow so it maximizes engine efficiency based on the new driving style? Admittedly, I don't know much about ECU functions.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's a bad example, because the ECU defaults to a rich-running fuel mix, you'll actually lose a few mpgs the tank after you reset it.

    But the opposite does make sense, you've lent the car to your grandmother, who never exceeds 3000rpm or 25mph, which ever it slower. The fuel is leaned out to the max, she broke the record and got 34mpg out of your Subie. :-)

    You get the vehicle back and want it to wake up. Then you would reset the ECU.

    -juice
  • gord7gord7 Member Posts: 16
    alpax - resetting the ECU is worth a try. Some months ago the board members were kind enough to comment on my problem of 18.8m/US gal on an auto Legacy 4 cylinder. The dealer checked and could find nothing amiss. Finally reset the computer and immediately a 10% improvement in MPG that has been consistent since then.

    Gordon
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The mechanic isn't off base too far.

    I wouldn't say inflate to MAX, but I would say that 3-6lbs over suggested pressure should be std. I run my cars generally 4-8lbs over stock pressures.

    -mike
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    I usually keep my wifes 2k OB Ltd at 32psi all around. If I'm going to be driving it for more than a day or so I move it to 34psi all around. Running the tires a little harder than spec may also extend their life if you are good about rotation. We are at 50k on the original Firestone Wilderness and there are about 30-50k left on the tires if pushed.

    Want to hear something amazing? When I say mostly highway I mean it!!!! At 50k we still have 70% wear left on all four corners. The original brakes will probably crack 100k.

    Fuel economy on our OB has been poor all along unless you really take it easy. I mean FEALLY easy. For example 55-60mph (which is not realistic in the midwest) will get you 27-29mpg but driving with the flow of traffic 70-75mph will get you about 21-22mpg. City driving fuel economy has been horrid. I get about 16mpg driving around St. Louis when I have to. Its one of the few bad things about a nice wagon. So in summary the H4 gets about 16 city / 23highway. The annoying thing is that it was WORSE than the H6 LL Bean I drove around for a couple of weeks. That got about 24-25mpg highway and 17-18 city.
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    Wow, Nematode -- that's pretty spectacular tire management. I've got 30k miles on my stock Potenzas, but they still look pretty good (having been religiously rotated every 7500).

    Seems like the consensus on tire pressure is a couple of lbs over the recommended pressure, i.e. ~34 to 36.

    Jon
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    Hmmm, I'm game for an experiment. How do you reset the ECU? Is the procedure to remove the (+) terminal for 30 minutes?
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    I changed my original brake pads at 70k miles. In hindsight, I should have left the fronts which still had about 40% lining remaining. The rears were at the limit and due for the change. Be aware that they may not wear evenly.

    Jim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I want your tires, but with my brakes and gas mileage!

    Ain't it funny? The grass is always greener on the other side. ;-)

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I have not done it myself, but the reported procedure is: Remove a battery terminal for 30-40 minutes & the residual charge will leak down (must have some large capacitors filtering the ECU's power supply). I hear you can speed the process by stepping on the brakes (tail lights bleed it off).

    After it is discharged, reconnect, start and allow to idle till up to temp, then drive away slowly.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yup, just disconnect the negative on the battery.

    -juice
  • ptrekkerptrekker Member Posts: 51
    Doesn't sound that way off. I get about 17mpg in hilly city stop and go and 27 on straight highway.
  • alpaxalpax Member Posts: 5
    17mpg is probably the best result I had (probably there was some highway driving that time). Usually it's 15mpg or even less.
    BTW, my city is plain as a table and the traffic is quite low.
    And I think I never had more than 22mpg even on a highway :(
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I average 24 in mixed driving, and once got 30 on a long trip. Very impressive, considering my previous H4 Outback (5-spd) got about 22-24 in mixed driving, and a max of 28 on a long trip.

    Craig
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Weighing in at 3650lbs and a 230hp/230lbs of torque 3.3l engine H6, I turn in 28mpg on the highway.

    -mike
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    I thought I was doing pretty well, 220Kms in the city to half a tank in my H63.0 Outback.

    Now that I did the conversion, that equates to only about 16 Mpg... I either need to lighten up on the pedal, or something is wrong.
  • ptrekkerptrekker Member Posts: 51
    These things are NOT good on gas compared to regular passenger cars but compared to other 4WD/ AWD SUVS or wagons, they're OK.

    Ideally, the Outback would be a great 3rd car (HA!) Use for the winter or for hauling around junk. Not the ideal commuter car.
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    My wife's 03 H4 wagon averages 22-23 with a 50-50 mix of total stop and go or wide open highway. She drives with a light foot. It's got 8500 miles on it and is very consistent with the mpg numbers. We've gotten upper 20's when she drives on a trip, mid 20's with me (but I get there quicker :<) ).

    Larry
  • amsbearamsbear Member Posts: 147
    .... I'm very happy to be commuting today in my Subaru.

    I think its an excellant commuter car with some extra versatility to pick up some stuff at Home Depot on the way home.

    I think I'm stating a shared and obvious sentiment.

    Alan
    98 OBW Ltd
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It is definitely a slow news week. C'mon folks it's just a little wind and rain, grow up already! Don't believe the media hype!

    -mike
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    If you guys would only use Canadian gallons you'd get a lot better mileage.

    Just back from a 2000 km BC road trip, 350 km on gravel. Haven't worked out the gas consumption yet. It isn't usually great because we tow a trailer, and the gravel won't have helped. Some of it was very deep, some full of potholes, and some very hilly (1st gear stuff). I longed for the dual range Aussie transmission.
  • alpaxalpax Member Posts: 5
    2 ptrekker:
    I agree that Outback H6 is not a Civic, but from the people's comments I can see that mileage numbers provided by the manufacturer (19/26 - city/highway) are quite accurate. That's why I'm concerned about my car's 15mpg :-\
  • alpaxalpax Member Posts: 5
    2 goosegog:
    That's a good idea, but I usually measure it in liters per 100 kilometers...
    Which "liters" should I use in my calculations to get a better fuel consumption? :)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Here's a news link just for you:

    Toronto Sun

    Steve, Host
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I have an 02 4cyl with 44k and was thinking of getting an LLBean for the 6cyl... don't like VDC. However in my test drives, I don't find the additional power of the six to be that impressive and the added weight makes it less nimble than the four. Would like to hear opinions, especially from those of you who have driven both extensively.

    BTW, those of you who are complaining about this not being a commuter car... help me out please... I don't get it. I think it's great as such. In mixed driving I get 21-24mpg. I also have a 530 and just came back from a 360 mile all-highway round trip. Although the latter is a great cruiser on the road, my wife and I both got backaches. It was refreshing to get back into the Outback which I find to be much more comfortable. And in the rain (not to mention snow) this car is great. Does not fishtail where the bimmer does. My only complaint is the windshield wipers and water that drips in from the roof when you open the window.
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    My wife is still thrilled with her Outback wagon for commuting at 9 months and counting. Her previous commuter was an Accord wagon. We both feel that the Subie is far superior, especially in the bad weather. And now that she's hit 8500 miles, the Outback's mileage is as good or better than the Honda's.

    Its comfortable, quiet, more than adequate power for the way she drives, and a really solid performer overall. What's not to like?

    Larry
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    Alpax, I don't have a suggestion for alternate liters, other than litres. I agree your mileage is terrible.

    I convert to mpg as I find it a more meaningful measurement than L/100km. Typically I average 25-26 miles per Canuck gallon on a long (1500 km or more) trip with the trailer attached, over a variety of terrain including mountain passes. I rarely exceed 70 mph/110 kmh except for passing. The A/C is on a fair bit. In town my mileage is about the same, with trips ranging from a few km up to 70 or so. Erfie has 40,000 km on the clock. I try to drive in such a manner as to conserve gas, anticipating traffic conditions, lights, etc, and never roaring away from a stop (drives the SUV drivers and the boy racers behind me nuts). Vancouver is not flat but the weather is never really cold so that might help a bit. The car gets to operating temp (on the guage anyway) very quickly...about 1 km. If you are in a cold climate or your thermostat is faulty that might affect your gas mileage.
  • bgabel1260bgabel1260 Member Posts: 135
    Out of all the cars I've owned (5), my 03 Outback's mileage has come closest to the EPA's estimates (21/27). The lowest mileage I've experienced has been 21.7 mpg while the highest mileage has been 25.1 mpg. I rarely do either 100% straight city or highway driving per tank; it's always some mix. Given that, I'm "satisfied".

    The most disappointing mileage performance came from my 01 Accord 4cyl (26/32). The lifetime mileage on that car was only 24.1 mpg. If the car was driven aggressively you could see 20-21 mpg, which is simply not acceptable for something with a 148hp engine. I think the problem is that Honda's engines have no low-end torque so you are always winding the things out to keep up with traffic. Maybe it's different with the new i-VTEC engines with the broader, flatter torque curves.

    I regularly revved my Accord to 3500-4000rpm under normal acceleration but I can often shift the H4 before 2750rpm on every gear (except for 1st) and still get acceptable acceleration. It's weird that the OB weighs 400 more pounds and has AWD baggage to contend with, yet it takes only a 1.5 mpg hit compared to the Accord.
  • larrybenlarryben Member Posts: 4
    One of the reasons I got our 2001 Outback with an H4 and manual 5 spd was to save gas. (I'm getting too old to care about 0-60, and haven't owned an automatic since 1970.) Based on all the complaints about bad mileage on these pages, this was apparently a good choice. For example, we recently completed a 1600 mile trip from Albuquerque to Colorado (including Interstates, mountain roads, and several days in Denver traffic). Our Outback (28K with its original Wilderness tires) compiled 30.9 mpg.
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    Larry -

    Sounds like my recent 2200 mile loop from Seattle to Yosemite and back. Got around 31 mpg overall with similar driving.

    I attribute these wide swings in reported mileage to two factors (mostly): 1) driving conditions and 2) driver's style. Our worst mileage is invariably associated with very short trips (the one-mile drive to the Park and Ride is an example) in city/suburban conditions. We get in the low 20s in such circumstances (I should mention we have a 2K OB Ltd with H4 and 5-speed manual, now approaching 37K miles). Out on the open roads, often w/o AC here in the Northwest, I can get over 30 easily. A couple of basics I think also contribute are: tire pressure (I've run 35 psi on all my cars' tires for years), clean filters (mostly air, possibly fuel), and regular oil changes. Other than that, lightening up a lead foot is probably the best bet. With local gas prices just now dropping below $2.00 gallon out here, I do what I can to save a buck, pollute less, and screw OPEC.

    Cheers from the [sunny, again] PNW!

    Ken M.
  • oregonajoregonaj Member Posts: 21
    Does anyone know what size and type fuse to use to convert the Outback to FWD?

    Thanks, Jim
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    I've got an H4 w/ 5spd and have never gotten any where near the highway mileage you describe. I am not an agressive leadfoot, either. On most of my roadtrips, the posted highway speed is either 70 or 75 mph, so I am usually cruising at that +5mph. Are you driving closer to 60-65?

    I'm pretty good about keeping my tire psi checked along with a clean air filter (to avoid restriction). Anything else to check? (ECU? - O2 sensor? )
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    The FWD fuse socket is located in the fuse box just under the hood along the driver side.

    Pop the cover off and there are 3 spare fuses (providing you haven't used any of them). You can use any of those 3, the rating does not matter. Keep in mind that this feature is only on the automatic without VTD/VDC, and should only be used for diagnostic purpose, or when using a compact spare.

    That being said, I did place a fuse in mine to see what a difference the AWD made. On simple city streets, I didn't notice much of a difference, but let's just say that when cornering on a hill, or starting out on a hill and turning a corner at the same time, I would not want a FWD Outback.

    I have yet do do that in the rain, need to find a quiet night with nobody around to see my OB's front wheels spinning uncontrolably, pointing and laughing.

    A common complaint about the Outback, even sometimes the H6: Lack of power. Believe me, there is plenty of power, even with the automatic, to spin the tires. You just never notice it with the AWD. I (actually a friend in my car :)^^ ) raced an RSX-S in the rain from a red light on the highway. Let's just say that while the type "S" was trying to overcome gross torque steer and point the car in the right direction, I (*cough* my friend) was hapily cruising along making the sporty thing in my mirror look like a fool...

    Yes, the AWD system might add a little bit of weight and consume power because of the extra friction, but it is not without it's merrits.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I had an H4 Outback (5-spd) and loved it. I made the mistake of test driving an LL Bean, however, and it sucked me right in (plus my parents wanted to buy the H4). I really appreciate the quieter, smoother ride and engine of the Bean. Power was fine on the H4 5-spd, but I feel like the H6 does better with an auto transmission.

    Both cars are great, but the H6 gives you a little more refinement for a couple thousand bucks (or so). I really think the H6 approaches a luxury type market, in fact, it drove better than the Acura MDX and Lexus RX-300 I also test drove back in late 2001.

    By the way, I seem to get equal or better gas mileage with my LL Bean compared to the H4 Outback.

    Craig
  • vetmatsvetmats Member Posts: 71
    I also traded my 5spd H4 Outback for an H6. I get a slightly better gas mileage for both city and highway driving vs. the H4.
  • oregonajoregonaj Member Posts: 21
    Sebastian,

    Thanks for the help on the FWD fuse. Jim
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