Subaru Legacy/Outback

kmclean

At Interstate speeds of 75 mph, with A/C running, I typically get around 28 mpg. No A/C adds maybe another 1 mpg, and lower speeds (two-lane highways at maybe 55-60 mph) with no A/C has yielded the best mileage - up to 33 mpg if I recall correctly (I had a trip post around mid-August where I detailed a high-mileage segment).

I've consistently beaten the EPA rating on every vehicle I've had (Caravan, Maxima, Audi), and I attribute it to good basic maintenance and my driving technique. Very briefly, as I've always had manual transmissions, I always get in the highest gear possible (without any "lugging") as soon as possible, and rarely upshift higher than 3K rpm (I do, however, downshift, which in theory would use more gas than simply using the brakes to slow or stop). I'm not averse to winding the engine out to near redline in a 2-lane passing situation - or carrying higher rpms up or down mountain passes - but I seek low rpms whenever possible. I also try to minimize braking (looking ahead in traffic to avoid the stop/start syndrome) - maybe that's why I got 90K miles out of the front pads on my late Caravan (the mechanics couldn't believe it!). It's plan-ahead driving technique to make the most of your kinetic energy - and not waste gas and brakes constantly altering your velocity.

'Nuf said. It works.

Cheers from (amazingly) sunny Seattle (go Hawks!)

Ken M.

ateixeira

Joke's on us, paisan. 5 days no power. Flights cancelled galore. Half my family in in the southwest without me!

Isabel was pretty nasty. Annapolis, MD is under water, Main Street had just been rebuilt. Some parts of Baltimore and Alexandria too.

It's the quantity of rain that's the main problem. Add to that the fallen trees.

-juice

bgabel1260

I'm in the market for a sit-on-top kayak and I'm looking for something that is "compatible" with my OB wagon. With kayaks, more length is generally a good thing but I don't want something that is too long to transport or too heavy to lift to the roof.

I plan on using Yakima accessories (rather than Subaru’s) and they instruct you to tie the ends of the kayak to the front and rear bumpers of the vehicle if the kayak extends over the windshield (which it will). Are there places under the bumper that you can use to secure cords? I'm thinking you can use a bungie cord or something. I'd rather not have to deal with cords but the maximum crossbar spread is 41” and a typical kayak length is 150”...you need multiple securing points.

If anybody uses their OB to transport a kayak, I’d like to hear any stories or advice you could give me. I’ve always transported bikes (no biggie) and hauling a 12’+ boat is new terrority for me.

rob999

I regularly transport my 12' recreational kayak on my Outback using straps around the OEM roof rack, and no fore/aft ropes.

I first put foam pipe insulation on the crossmembers to prevent abrasion, then fasten the kayak down to the longitudinal rails with some high-quality kayak straps. If these are tight enough, the elliptical shape of the kayak bears against the straps and prevents fore/aft movement. I've transported my kayak for 3+ hours at 75mph without problem.

Hint: Twist the straps after mounting to eliminate obnoxious wind noise at highway speeds.

The Yakima mounts would be a 'plus' as they cradle the kayak nicely, but in my experience the factory roof rack has been more than adequate.

c_hunter

I put my sea kayak (about 17.5 ft) on my Outback, with Yakima crossbars (mounted to the factory side rails via Double-Cross towers) and kayak stackers. The stackers allow me to tip the boat on it's side. I put two straps over the boat and snug down to the crossbars. I also put one rope from the front grab handle to the front tow hook, and one from the rear grab handle to the rear tow hook. I consider these ropes to be extra insurance.

Craig

stever

Guys like Rob999 drive me crazy, but it's very common to see yakers not tie their boats down front and/or rear.

I've had friends lose their kayaks at 60 mph going down the highway when the ropes or bungies across the rack fail. Talk about flying projectiles!

I usually haul canoes but I also tie my whitewater kayak down front and rear on my '97 Outback to the toe hooks like Craig (avoiding the muffler side). Only takes a minute and it really is cheap insurance.

Steve, Host

rob999

Aw lighten, up, steve_host.

I'm talking about quality tiedowns, not third-rate bungees or rope and I've transported my kayak numerous times this way. And I'm talking about a 12' kayak, not a 17' sea kayak. I guarantee adding a bungee cord to the bow or stern isn't going to do squat if any main tiedown system fails

Incorrect/incompetent attachment of any system can send a kayak flying

c_hunter

I used to sell canoes and kayaks, and believe me, we saw a lot of careless people. For smaller kayaks, it's probably OK to just tie it to the rack, assuming you have 100% confidence in the rack. Anything larger, though, I would recommend front and rear tie downs. Ideally, you'd want two ropes in front (an upside down "V") and one in the back.

We had one customer whose racks came loose when the rain gutters on his old beater Land Cruiser rusted to the point of failure. He hit the brakes at a light, and the whole shebang came off. The only thing that kept his canoe from launching was the rope he had tied to the back bumper (which was probably also close to rusting off).

Craig

lark6

I own a Forester, not a Legacy/OB, but I'll throw my two cents in on kayaks. If you're looking for a good, affordable sit-on-top, check out the Ocean Kayaks line (www.oceankayaks.com); they have a number of choices in the 11' to 16' range. I've used them a few times in protected and open waters, most recently in the Strait of Juan de Fuca in Washington. Perception's Napali is a decent boat as well.

Your focus seems to be more on how far the boat hangs off either end of your car as opposed to the boat's performance. Accept the likelihood that it will hang off and start honing in on where and how you plan to use the boat.

As for hauling, my approach is very similar to Craig's. I got a very good deal on ebay a couple of years ago on some Yakima crosstops; I bought the crossbars and SKS core locks at REI. My saddles are kind of low-budget, made by South Shore Kayaks on Long Island, NY; not sure they're even in the business anymore.

I carry my boat upside down in the saddles rather than on its side. I secure it across the hull using straps and at each end with either ropes or bungees (okay, sometimes I'm lazy, but they're really STIFF bungees) from the front grab handle to the front tow hook and from the rear grab handle to the rear tow hook. My boat is a Perception Carolina (14'7"), a midsize tourer, not a sit-on-top, FWIW.

Hope this helps.

Ed

stever

I had a cheap rack fail in '74 and have been a bit paranoid since. I also don't use bungies or bike tubes, but ropes.

If my main system fails, my backup ropes should keep my boats near my car, like they did in '74, at 50 mph.

You'll recognize me on the highway - I won't be tailgating you :-)

Steve, Host

rob999

I will agree with you in many respects. There are just too many nincompoops out there who carry stuff on their roofs with no conception of safety. The classic example are folks who carry plywood on the roofs of sedans (with no tiedowns) while reaching out the window and trying to hold on with hands. I've seen these types too many times coming out of the local Home Depot.

c_hunter

A few months ago, I built a porch for my inlaws. It involved trucking over a load of lumber on my Outback's rack (the Yakima setup). Had to take a ferry, drive into the country, and then do some light offroading to get to their riverside cabin (which just got flooded by the way). The whole thing was cool.

Anyways, as I was tying down the lumber outside Lowes, I heard some redneck snicker and make fun of me. I couldn't believe it. I probably have more experience transporting boats and lumber on my roof racks than that guy and all his cousins do with their pickup trucks! It was actually a light load too (far easier than two canoes). I'm not even sure what the idiot was thinking!

Craig

bgabel1260

It looks like a set of Yakima Lowrider towers (which clamp directly on to the Outback's raised rails), 48" crossbars, a pair of Hullyrollers and a pair of Mako Saddles will do the trick. I already have the crossbars, a fairing and a bike mount so I that's why I'm sticking with Yakima. While this may not be the lowest cost option, the setup seems to offer very good usability and security. Yakima also sells a "Bow/Stern Tiedown" accessory that eliminates having to tie knots. Their instructions specifically say to use non-elastic tiedowns every time you transport your boat.

My concern about boat length revolves around several things. A long yak would give me more stress. I live in a townhouse on 0.05 acres so I need to worry about storage. I have no garage so whatever boat I buy will be stored outside on my patio. I don't think I could even fit a 17' model, for instance. Bigger yaks weigh more (unless you buy expensive fiberglass) and this may make the whole activity less desirable. Something that is more livable (shorter length, lighter weight) will likely encourage me to hit the water more often. Of course this is a compromise but life is rarely fair.

c_hunter

The main benefits of length are better tracking and lower drag which impact long-distance trips. Thus, you only really see long kayaks for touring/sea use. Associated downsides are slow turning, heavier boats, and boats that are harder to shuffle around. Believe it or not, people are more likely to injure themselves lifting their sea kayak on and off the car than paddling! So, your concerns make perfect sense to me (I spent about 5 years carrying my sea kayak up/down the stairs to/from a small apartment and wedging it into my living room -- not fun).

For all around recreational use, a 12-14 ft. kayak is great. Depending on the hull design, you can get decent tracking or decent turning, or a compromise. The best boat I had was a 12 ft kayak made in England -- can't remember the brand name. I did light whitewater (up to class III), flatwater, and surfing with that boat, and had a blast. Of course, that was when I lived in CT and all those waters were within a couple hours drive. In coastal VA, my needs changed and a sea kayak was the best bet. Now that I have a garage, it's not so bad to handle anymore.

Craig

stever

lol, the best are the ones moving their mattresses and box springs on the roof hanging on to the ticking with their bare hands.

My personal best was 5 canoes and 4 kayaks on my old Voyager with a Quik n' Easy rack on real rain gutters. It was a short shuttle on the back roads and I assure you it was, ahem, perfectly safe. :-)

C_hunter, I haven't done a lot of sea kayaking but I remember one boat a decade ago that made a big splash but didn't work out because it was too long. Paddlers tended to bridge two wave trains in choppy seas instead of sliding down one face and up the other. Made it tippy and slow. Btw, my Mom got one of those open cockpit Kiwi style boats on her 75th birthday six years ago for tooling around the lakes near her.

The bike connection gets talked about a lot on the Subaru boards, but Subaru also has a canoe page:
 
Subaru Outdoor Life. Guess I need to buy another Dagger since I'm in the Subaru fold now.

Steve, Host

c_hunter

My kayak is a Dagger Seeker! Good boat to go with my Subaru I guess!

I have paddled a Keowee (one of many spellings!), and they are a lot of fun. We must have sold hundreds of them. Really great boats, and easy to get in/out of. You can pretty much tackle all kinds of water too.

Craig

reblack_jr

Looking for Ideas,
I went into by wheel well the other day and was surprised to find about 1/2 to 3/4 inches of water.
Sponged it out and toweled it dry.
I have an 01 OB Ltd wagon. Dealer checked it out no problem found. I have since sealed the two sidewall rubber plugs from the inside and the center one at the bottom from the outside with GE Silicone RTV. The rug above the well cover seamed damp. I did not notice any water on the topside of the rubber pad that covers the rug.
Help!

c_hunter

Are you talking about the spare tire well? I would suspect a leak from somewhere else, probably a window or even a roof rack bolt. Look for signs that it may be dripping down from somewhere else.

Craig

reblack_jr

Craig,
You got it correct it is the "Spare Tire Well". If I had an overhead leak wouldn't I have water on the "top" side of the rubber pad that covers my rug? Also, if it leaked through the bolts wouldn't the headliner be wet? Does anyone know whether the tubes that drain the two "Moon" roof openings fore and aft could have some involvement.
Thanks!

c_hunter

Well, I've seen some odd leaks from all over that end up pooling in the spare tire well. Could be coming from anywhere, and sometimes the source is hard to find. Tail light leaks are also known to cause water to collect in the spare tire well, for instance.

In one roof leak I've seen, water traveled down a structural member in the frame of the car, and then pooled in the spare tire well. Headliner and carpet were dry.

Craig

WMarton

All of this talk about people carrying plywood and mattresses on the top of their cars reminds me of a something that I observed a number of years ago. I was commuting into Washington, DC down North Capitol St. when I noticed a car up ahead that appeared to be dragging something along underneath it. When I got closer I realized that an entire mattress was wedged under the guy's undercarriage and he was just tooling along oblivious (or so it seemed). I was so dumbfounded that I didn't even try to signal to him that something was amiss.

Ok, so help me out here folks: first, how does one run over a mattress in the first place...seems like a pretty damn big thing in the road that someone would try to avoid. And two, how on earth would he not realize he was dragging it along with him. The only thing that I can think of that makes any sense is that the mattress flew off someones car; he couldn't avoid running over it and it got stuck underneath; he pulled over and tried to get it out without any luck; and was therefore driving to a service station to get some help.

Bill

fibber2

The whole back of the wagon has a false floor. In the center you have the cover for the thin cargo tray, then the spare tire. But on both sides of that are a pair of removeable sections about 2" thick that make the whole surface level. Anybody that has installed the trailer wiring has had the 'pleasure' of prying out these pieces. I wouldn't be surprised, as Craig said, it the water doesn't enter around a rear/side window or roof seal, and find its way under the false floor. You probably also have water in the side fender wells as well.

Steve

goosegog

Toss out all the false floors, spare wheel, cubby hole covers and whatever you keep insided them, then get inside and have someone hose the back of the car, including roof, tail lights, windows, and even from underneath for 5 or 10 minutes. I presume the water in your wheel well was reasonably clean, which probably means it is running down from above rather than spraying up from the road.

ateixeira

That mattress story is a good selling point for the extra ground clearance the Outback offers! LOL

-juice

ateixeira

If they replaced the gaskets with new ones, you're good to go there. Did they do one side or both? Or did they change leaky seals?

That's risky, I'd want the block cleaned, and then to verify no oil was leaking after some use.

The steering jerking is a bad sign, that could be the AWD system or bad differentials, perhaps from the previous owner not rotating the tires and keeping pressures even.

Dunno, but that's two red flags, I'd pass.

-juice

kmclean

Robert -

I have a 2K OB Ltd wagon, and the second winter we had it [at least] one of the sunroof gaskets allowed a fair amount of water into the car (our first winter had been unusually dry - especially for Seattle). The leak showed up in the roof liner - aft of the rear sunroof. The dealer replaced both sunroof gasket assemblies under the 3/36 warranty. I've seen water do some pretty strange things, so it's not much of a stretch to imagine it ending up in the spare tire well from the sunroof. Other than that, I'd check the hatch and the two rear side windows. While unlikely, the roof rack is a slim possibility, too. Hosing the car with you inside is a good idea - but if it's the sunroof, be patient - it will probably take a while to show up. The orientation of the car (up/downhill/level) will likely affect the outcome.

On a similar note, I also suffered the "sloshing rocker panel disease" on the driver's side a couple of years ago. The boss noticed it - I thought she was imagining it - but she had it nailed. Turned out to be a clogged drain hole somewhere on the left rocker panel. Hosing it out (full blast) through the inlet (you can find it with your finger) in the front left mud flap finally cured the problem. Parked facing downhill in our drive, the water would drain through a front (unclogged) drain hole. I had to hose the car facing uphill to reproduce the slosh problem. Now I give all the "mud flap slots" a couple-of-seconds shot whenever I wash the car - no further problems.

Good luck - let us know what the source turns out to be.

Cheers!

Ken in Seattle

larryben

In reply to Rob999 (#9041) about how to get good mileage with 5 speed H4 on long trips. I follow the same relaxed driving habits as Ken (#9046), taking advantage of the manual transmission. Ia also use an old-fashioned hand pump to adjust my tires to about 33 psi before long trips and use the cruise control just above the speed limit on the open road (except in traffic, on hills or during bad weather). Mileage may also be better in the summer because of less ethanol. On most days my wife drives the Outback and averages in the low 20s in city driving.

But the wide variances in mileage among Outback owners is puzzling. Perhaps they result from some mechanical inconsistencies among various years and models, local gasoline formulations, and/or aggressiveness of driving styles.

Larry

hypov

reblack_jr Sep 28, 2003 9:56pm

When you were sealing the plugs, did you check behind the tail-lights? I'm only assuming there is a plug on each side on the OB [WRX wagon has them] which you could only see by removing the tail-lights.

You could try power coating the wheel well to decipher what direction is the leak.

-Dave

wheelz4

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/news/aw/gmh030922- 1amg.jpg

Looks like the Outback will have some serious competition in the "Outback" in the form of the Holden Adventura. Like the overall treatment and minimalist cladding.

ateixeira

Eek, what is that on the roof? Looks like 8 square feet of plastic cladding to me. Besides that it looks great.

-juice

rsholland

helps protect the roof in cases where the raised roof ridges or roof rack crossbars won't, such as hauling shrubbery or X-mas trees on your roof (which I've done). I think it's a good idea that makes a lot of sense.

Bob

ateixeira

As much as I use my roof, and as much as I like unpainted cladding, that just looks bizarre.

-juice

rsholland

This is a clear case of form following function. The cladding is there for a reason, and not for styling. Besides, it's on the top of the roof. That's not an area most people look at.

Bob

wheelz4

...I don't think you'd notice it much from a regular viewing angle. In fact, I think they should've extended it up to the rear of the sunroof.......may as well protect the whole roof if you're going to do some anyway. Here's another angle and colour:
http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/news/aw/gmh030922- 1cmg.jpg
Begs the question....if GM Australia (Holden) can put something like this together (although it's 7-8 years after Subaru's original), why couldn't our GM rise to Subaru's challenge as well?

bkaiser1

I was noticing (admiring) an Audi Allroad the other day and noticed that the entire roof is has a matte finish on it which looks very durable. It's not as obvious as the black plastic in that photo, but it's a nice touch. I'm still not sure I'd haul a tree on the roof of my $45K Audi, but it's nice to know you could!

B

rsholland

you will see just about every make of car carrying X-Mas trees on their roofs.

Bob

robr2

Looking at the first picture it reminded me of a Saab. GM should offer that as as the 9-7 as opposed to a rebadged Trailblazer. Would people buy a 5.7L V8 in a Saab?

rsholland

a SaaBlazer...

A Buick Rainier with a Swedish accent??

Bob

robr2

I presume you know that Saab is putting it's touch on the Trailblazer in order to offer it as the 2005 Saab 9-7.

rsholland

Hence my comment.

Bob

gearhead4

I have read that SAAB is using some Subaru technology. GM owns 25% of Subaru, and I think 100% ownwership of Holden and SAAB.
Would GM encourage loss of established Subaru markwet share to bolster the Holden name down under?
I think the products are aimed at slightly different markets.

Jim

ateixeira

That looks like an update of the old Opel Omega platform, though. Actually, so does the Pontiac GTO. I think Holden is still using older GM platforms, from a decade ago or even longer.

Every current Saab is derived from some GM platform, right? They're just borrowing more and more platforms. I hope they can inject some character into the TrailBlazaab.

-juice

vetmats

All the talk about cladding, made me think about a something that I found to protect my bumper. I just bought an '04 Outback, and I didn't want my bumper to get all scraped up (like my '00 Outback did) from carrying 2x4's etc, hanging out the hatch.

I found something called "tread" tape at an autoparts store. It is basically a self-adhesive tape that looks like a black plastic truck-liner material on top.

I was able to even bend it to fit the curve of the bumper. Once it was on, it looked exactly like the stuff that black plastic bed liners are made of. And it felt like it too.

If you wanted to add protection to the inside of the cladding near the wheel wells, you could easily cut some to fit. If you clean the area before you stick it on, it should stick pretty well.

c_hunter

Sounds like a good idea -- how about a picture?

Craig

K9Leader

Vetmats:

You may have answered my question with the info about the "tread" tape.

I had posted on one of these threads about how the black plastic "protector" on the OB rear bumper (I have a 2000 OB Ltd wagon)is really no protection at all -- it is really thin and does not even wrap down around the top edge of the bumper. My 15-year-old son made me realize something better is needed when he heaved up and slammed down on the bumper a freshly-filled 20-lb. propane tank, then twisted it lifting it into the vehicle -- nice circular gouge on the bumper and "protector."

I had noticed, though, that many Legacy wagons had a much better black plastic protector that is thicker and does wrap around the top edge. Alas, the guys at Subaru-Parts.com say it will not fit over the ribbed "protector" on the OB.

What auto parts store carried it? Do you recall the manufacturer and exact product name?

Thanks for the info!

--K9Leader

vetmats

I'll take a picture and look up the auto parts store and part number when I get home tonight.

goosegog

Here is an extract from my post #4607 when there was a discussion about this very issue:

"The OB does not have an add-on rear bumper cover listed and I assume this is because it already has blackstuff there. But as you point out there is one which is much more durable, does a better job of protecting the bumper's edge, and is intended for the Legacy which is sans blackstuff. I eventually got one last fall while passing through Kamloops BC and it has "Legacy" moulded into it. My big Vancouver dealership and the Kamloops one denied knowledge of the item but fortunately I was carrying around a picture of one complete with part number I downloaded from Subaru's website, and this convinced them to dig out the last remaining one in stock. It was covered in dust and the entire parts and sales team came out to marvel at it.

It is thick, tough plastic but not as wide as the blackstuff, which looked difficult to get off so I didn't try. It doesn't look perfect but no-one except those on this list would ever notice. I'll try to remember to take a pic and post it.

Ironically, about two weeks after I stuck it on I saw a late 90's Legacy with one of these on it, but this one had "Outback" moulded into it!"

It sticks on pretty well over the ribbing and has shown no signs of shifting or coming loose in two years. See also post #4616 from fibber2.

HOST: Is there a way to post a picture in here, or must it be a link?

ateixeira

I thought about this last night - the ideal would be a car with NO PAINT, cladding all around. I mean, if you're gonna go as far as the roof, go whole hog. The matte black color is fine with me!

How 'bout it? On a Forester Battle package. ;-)

Tread tape sound interesting. It worked well? The adhesive is putting up with abuse well?

-juice

stever

You are welcome to post a picture in here (please keep it a reasonable size for our friends on dial-up).

You still need a place to host the pic since you can't just upload it to us. Check the Town Hall Help link on the left for the posting code and other details.

Steve, Host

ateixeira

I'll host it for you, e-mail it to me.

-juice