The invoice price of your car is $26,114 (GLX) + 1,073 (Tiptronic) + $340 (CD) + $550 (Destination) which = $28,077. If you paid paid $28,400 + $385 (CD) + $129 (pure profit pinstripping) this would = $28,914. The difference here is $837 which truely represents 3%over invoice, still a GREAT DEAL! The "$546 over invoice" was a low ball since profit was tacked on to your two options. This is better than the 4% over invoice I paid (out the door...no dealer ad ons, no doc or prep fees) in Indy area. I guess we both joined the Passat GLX .5 club today!
Your calcs are about right, but I think its legit to count the $25 port fee and the $92 floor plan fee as part of the invoice. I believe the dealer actually pays those items, but someone correct me if I am wrong.
You mixed up one thing though - the $129 was for after market window tinting (this is South Florida), not for "pure profit pinstriping." I think that's a good price, but more importantly I wanted to use the dealership's tinter based on the assumption that they know how to do the Passat properly, especially the back window.
So, $837 - 117 - 129 = $591. That's a little higher than my estimate because you included the invoice price on the CD-changer.
Also, I don't consider it a lowball - they didn't know I wanted the CD or tinting when they quoted me a price.
Thanks. I agree about the dealer fee - that is built into the sticker price and should not be an extra charge. Of course, it doesn't really matter: the out-the-door or Cash Balance Due is the number to keep your eye on. That's why I didn't care that they switched the dealer prep to the cost of the car - didn't change the bottom line to me.
Of course, I don't see many of the other price related posts including dealer prep info. To compare apples to apples, you need to account for those items. Everyone should be encouraged to include that kind of info. (I think I may have included enough detail to convince certain other posters that I am not full of it)
Also, every dealer bid which I got based on invoice (i.e., invoice + 3%, etc.)included the $117 for port fee and floor plan fee (i.e., invoice on a GLX Tip was $27,854, not $27,737) Everything else on the contract was tax and tag, all-in-all a nice clean deal.
I ordered a 2001.5 GLS one week ago... should arrive from Houston within the next two to four weeks. Paid $500 over dealer invoice (confirmed by Edmunds) plus $117 port fee. The salesman said it was a regional thing and all dealerships are charged this fee by VW. I don't know if that was true but based on the other posts I now assume so. All in all, got a 6% discount off MSRP. I'm happy... but will be happier when I'm driving it off the lot
Dear Fifty five, I am looking to purchase a new 2001.5 GAS wagon. The best I was able to negotiate was bout 700 over invoice on a 2001 model. So anything you could help me with to make a better deal on a 2001.5 would be greatly appreciated. Also I probably will be getting this as a lease for my company so any advice there would help also. Thanks
Does anybody have good, reliable info on when the new 2001.5 4motion wagons will arrive at dealers? I have heard many different dates. Thanks. Oh, how about reviews of the GLX sedan for those new 2001.5 model owners.
We have had no word on the wagons as yet, beyond the "couple of months after the sedans" we were told initially. By looking around in the incoming VWs for my area, it looks like the Jetta Wagons will actually get here before the Passat ones! Probably done on purpose to ensure selling those ones. It seems like they are kind of a risk to bring to the US market, and most of us are pretty leery about their impact.
Thanks for the info re: the port fee($25) and floor plan fee ($92) for $117 total. I never heard of this but would explain the difference in what the sales person quoted me as his invoice and my calculations. I'm even more psyched since reworking my numbers brings me to a 3.6% over invoice sale price. Where did you find these extra fees? Online or dealership printout (which I never did see)?
The only place I saw these fees in writing was on www.cars.com. I think if you design a car to order on-line they are shown near the end of the process. But if you add them on to the other invoice info it seems to add up to what the dealers consider to be invoice price.
Arghhh!!!!! This is killing me! I'm still not sure if I should wait for the .5's or get a great deal on the left over 2001's. I'm figuring it's going to be about a $2000 difference between the two. And to tell you the truth, one of the major things that makes me want to spend the extra $2000 is the new cup holders. Silly I know, but if you're spending this much on a new vehicle, might as well get everything you want, right? Does anyone know of any after market cup holders that would fit somewhere on the 2001's?
Is VW still giving 1000$ to dealers for Passat's with manual? I've got offer for GLS 1.8T with manual, no options for 19900$+397$ dealer fee. How that sounds?
The invoice price on a base GLS manual with no options is $19,519, add $525 for destination charge and that's $20,044. Sounds like they're holding back on some of that $1000.
I went down to the dealer today and checked both the 2001 an 2001.5 out. It came down to $$ and cents and a deal I couldn't refuse. For a 2001 GLS, leather, luxury, and monsoon - $22,150! Almost $1000 under invoice, how could I pass that up? Plus the fact I'd have to wait for the right 2001.5 and my wife actually liked the 2001's styling better. Now, to find a decent cup holder to put in it............
Any one see these charges on invoices in the Northeast(NE). If you look at a Passat invoice in the NE you see $25 Port Prep, $125 Regional Advertising Fee, and $93 Floor Plan Reserve. It is added to the invoice price. I saw it on the invoice. Wowww $242 extra to invoice. Is this true cost to the dealer? I can live with the $25 if they need it and do it. Are we stuck with this advertising fee and do they get this on every car they sell? I haven't seen one ad for the new Passat. The floor plan reserve sounds as though they are amortizing the cost of floorplan financing to all vehicles. If you order a car they should not need to pay it since they come in and go out before they need to incur the cost on an ordered unit. If the practice is to amortize it to all units then everyone pays a piece. I thought I was giving a fair profit at $5-600 over invoice. With these surprise charges the car costs me more than I planned. Not a lot but troubling. Also I don't hear anyone paying these charges on 2001 end of year units. What gives?
A lot of markets have additional advertising fees charged to them by the manufacturers. You mentioned Northeast, that makes sense.
Some markets where advertising costs for the manufacturers are much higher particularly have them, it's part of the cost of doing business there. Much as a House in most any major city in the northeast costs multiples of what it will cost here in Orlando. (I ought to know, Im originally from Tenafly, NJ!). and also how the costs of living here are higher than Pensacola, but lower than Miami.
So these are usually legit charges. However, since the invoice info on the 'net is not direct from the manufacturers, it often doesn't have regional info such as this.
Actually, on the Edmunds and Kelley Blue Book sites, they include a small paragraph about advertising charges. It says that these charges ordinarily range from 1 to 3 % of MSRP. I believe this is also intended, by them, to cover the port prep and floorplan charges.
All kinds of money flows back and forth between the dealers and the manufacturers. By adding these "fees" onto the invoice, the dealers/manufacturers are trying to pass along *additional* costs of doing business directly to the customer. They want more money. Instead of raising the price of the vehicle, and risking people taking their business elsewhere, they are keeping the price "reasonable," and then springing these charges onto consumers after they are more heavily invested in the buying process.
Dealers/manufacturers are hoping that consumers will consider a "measly $25 port prep fee" to be basically "part" of the destination fee. But, what *exactly* is "port prep"--does it have to do with packing or unpacking the cars on the boats?! Why in the world is this separated out from the "destination charge"?!
As for the "floorplan reserve" and "regional advertising" fees--these kinds of expenses are more than covered by the "holdback." But, if these costs are not able to be covered by the "holdback", they SHOULD be covered by either increasing the holdback or offering additional factory-to-dealer incentives...it's a dealer vs. manufacturer issue, or a dealer inefficiency issue, or some kind of issue that isn't my problem!
If you don't want to pay any fees, you can certainly try to negotiate them right out of your deal. The fact that various fees are now appearing in itemized form on the invoice doesn't mean diddily squat--and it makes me feel even more uncomfortable about the reliability of this padded out "invoice." Basically, somebody, somewhere wanted to squeeze out more profit and they figured out a way to "soften the blow" by making up all kinds of official sounding fees.
The "helpful information" provided by the above dealers about these fees is exactly what you would hear from a salesman at the dealership. They are passing along "an explanation." But, just because this explanation "makes sense," doesn't mean that these fees are something that we should be willing to pay.
I guess we have two options--either we can utterly refuse to pay them, or we can complain very loudly and drive an even tougher bargain on the final price.
Oh, I guess there is that third option--we can just pay whatever they want us to and quit our whining...
The above two items are not a part of the Retail Price side of an Invoice and are not a part of the Monroney Label in the window either. These are not fees passed along to the customer; they are an addition to the Dealer's cost for the car.
If a customer is getting a straight discount off of the Retail/MSRP price of the car these fees would never even be seen. However, for the customer who is negotiating a price over the Dealers Invoice then, indeed, these numbers are a part of that Invoice. The same applies to any regional advertising fees...they too are added to the Dealer's cost of the car, and are not a part of the Retail price of the car.
In answer to the question regarding what is Port Prep and why it is not part of the Destination Fee...Destination Fees are the cost of transporting the car from Emden or Hanover to the US and for the Carrier, Wagoneers, to deliver the car to the Dealership. Port Prep involves all the work that is done on the vehicle once it reaches the Port of San Diego, the Port of Houston or Delaware. Every VW goes through a thorough inspection process at each Port...if repairs are required they are done at the Port facility... whether it be mechanical or cosmetic. In lieu of attaching a specific fee for these repairs the Port Prep fee is attached to each car the dealer receives. The reason that it is seperate is because the Ports of San Diego, Houston, and Delaware do not transport vehicles, they process them for delivery to over 600 US Dealers including making sure that about 1000 cars a day, 365 days a year go to the right place and in a timely & efficient manner.
Those people who are willing to overpay for a vehicle (by paying anywhere near MSRP), don't notice fees, and will not notice that they are getting a bad deal. But, for those who insist on getting a good deal, they will run into all kinds of fees that effectively pad out the "invoice." Now that consumers are more aware of the dealer gross profit of holdback, which is *under* invoice, the dealer/manufacturers have responded by initiating a set of fees *over* invoice (or *within* invoice), to insure a steady flow of profit.
Per vwguild, all cars must be inspected after they arrive at the U.S. port AND customers are being asked to pay this fee. Next, we will be asked to pay an "inspection fee" at the port in Germany, to inspect for damage after the journey from the factory to the German port AND an additional inspection fee to check on damage after the journey from the U.S. port to the dealership. What about an inspection at the end of the assembly line? What about U.S. customs fees?
A specific comment on: "In lieu of attaching a specific fee for these repairs the Port Prep fee is attached to each car the dealer receives." Wouldn't insurance cover such inspections and repairs--why is the consumer being asked to pay for the negligence of a sailor who trips and slams his marlin spike right through the hood of a silverstone gray Passat?!
Snurple, I agree with you on some of your points. Auto manufacturers breaking out all of these fees seperately is asinine. Do you know I have to waste hours of my time every day explaining these fees away? I hate them. They are one of the biggest headaches I have currently. But here's the rub: it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if I don't like them, or if you don't like them, or if everyone and their mother doesn't like them. The dealer gets charged seperately for all of these fees, and believe me, when the dealer cuts a check to the manufacturer for the car, they don't have an option of arguing over them. Now you can say you refuse to pay them. People do all of the time. But that doesn't mean they magically disappear. Some dealers may say that you don't have to pay them. And then they're only willing to go down to $600 over, whereas if you accepted invoice with the extra fees, they would go down to $500 over. There is always going to be a point where the dealer is willing to let you leave rather than discount anymore. And whether you're willing to pay these fees or not, its the same exact point in overall dollars.
"You asked a question; I answered it...If you don't like the answers; don't ask the questions." All I can say to this, vwguild, is "WHAT?" I didn't realize that I had to "like" the answers to questions I asked...
ffxvw, while I sympathize with the "dealer's plight" of having to pay these fees, I think that this is really something you need to take up with VWoA--you guys are getting screwed! But, I'll thank you not to pass along the screwing to me and other consumers.
As for the bottom-line at the end of the negotiation remaining the same: for those who blandly accept fees, the bottom-line has, of course, gone up. And those who are knowledgeable about and dispute such additional charges, they, of course, wind up paying a more reasonable price.
If no one agrees to pay these fees, and if people pay only in relation to a stable invoice price, then guess what--those fees actually would "magically disappear." Dealers would not be able to use them to pad out the out-the-door price. Whether or not actual prices would immediately expand out to the fee-filled level, I have no idea. But, as long as people are educated about pricing, shop around, and are willing to walk, they will get the best possible deal.
Snurple know matter what anybody says you continue to blow it of as facts.Every manufacturer does charge a ad fee.Some include it in the invoice , while others itemize them out.I work for Nissan and they itemize it out. I personally don't like it that way and I wish they would include it in the invoice instead.Your advice to refuse to pay those fees can't be done,just like my refusal to pay those fees to the manufacturer. When a client comes in with all the invoice prices I have no problem pulling my invoice.But when my invoice is off by 262.00 I am a ------ liar.I understand your job is to stir things up in here but until you own,work or invest in a dealership all your doing is blowing hot air.
have dozens of arguments up their sleeves to justify an asking price. Consumers can negotiate a better deal if they are well-informed.
Just because something is called a "fee" does not mean that it can't be negotiated around--especially if people can muster a good argument to dispute its legitimacy.
All of this is about negotiation. I know when I walk into a dealership that most salesmen will utilize ten different tactics intended to separate me from more of my money. I am suggesting that "fees" of this nature are a tactic in this catagory--no matter where these fees originate from.
Let's see, in the last dozen posts we have heard from no less than FOUR different dealers. You are right, there IS a lot of hot air blowing around here...
Volkswagens cost too much! When you're sitting down at the desk with the salesman, ask him to get you a cup of coffee. The grab the keys and steal the car! Now you REALLY got a good deal!
WHAT? That real estate Agent said that a small house in Northern New Jersey is $200,000? THATS NUTS! Tell her that you can get one JUST Like it in Pocatello, Idaho for $60K! Be Assertive! DEMAND a Better price!
I did this at Tower Records ALL the time! I go up to the counter and REFUSED to pay the sales tax at their store in NY City because I lived in NJ! I also DEMANDED a Discount because I dont need the CD Jewel case. I keep my CDs in a Book.
I just told the people at the Orange County Florida Tax Collectors office where to go! They wanted $45 or so for a STICKER for my License plate! $45 for a STICKER??? NUTS! I told them $1!
I come home from work , need some entertainment, and I come here to read YOUR posts. Tonight I almost fell out of my chair reading your posts, and now my stomach muscles are sore from the laughter.
Has anyone seen the Ink Blue Passat yet? We haven't gottent any in, and from the number of requests I'm getting for that color, not too many other people have either.
I have an idea for car dealers - why not add an "electricity fee" to each invoice? After all, the dealership actually pays the electric bill each month, and the electric helps light up every car that comes thru the dealership. So why not add a automatic electricity charge to the invoice for $17 per car. Don't forget the water fee for $12. How about a separate salesman commision fee and a sales manager salary fee?
In truth, I think that car dealers are entitled to charge whatever the market will bear. If they want to take normal items of overhead and break them out as separate fees, that's their perogative. Personally, I think it is a lame practice, but I don't run the dealership and apparently they make more money doing it that way. They are in business to make money after all.
The real problem is when the charges are handled deceptively, such as hiding them until the last minute. It part, it depends on how the deal is handled - if the dealer promises a price of MSRP minus 3% and then adds back $350 in "fees" that is deceptive because in reality he would only be offering MSRP minus 2% even though promising something else. If the dealer promises invoice plus 3% and tries to tell you that invoice includes all of these fees, I would consider that a lame business practice, but not necessarily deceptive as long as the information wasn't hidden or misrepresented.
Yeah, its horrible. If all dealers pay them, the manufacturer should really just suck it up and include them in the base price. The main problem is that EVERY auto manufacturer does this. It probably started with just one clever guy, who said, "If I break out my shipping costs as "Destination Fee", my car looks like its cheaper!". Now, to keep their prices as low as possible, all of the manufacturers break out as many fees as possible just to keep up. Hmmm...now if they would just let me run things for a while... }:)
I just have a very enjoyable experience buying my Passat this week. Here are a few of my comments.
1. There is an unadvertised dealer incentive rebate of $1000-$1500 on the 2001 Passats.
2. Once I found the car I wanted, I had a hard time getting any dealer to give a reasonable deal until I came in with other prices from online sources.
3. Find out your credit score before you walk into a dealer. I got a "quick quote" based on my score. I also got the dealer to beat my APR rate from my credit union. Get financed before you go in, you don't have to use it.
4. Eloan is not accepted at most dealers right now. They are not paying all of their checks and 3 dealers said that their managers would not take the checks, 2 of them were polite and said "We would rather not use them, there paperwork is a pain, but when pressed they admitted it was because of their poor financial status.
5. Carsdirect.com found me the car much easier than looking myself. It took 2 days for my representative(Hugh) to get the deal. They will try to finance you and get you a warranty... to beef up their sale, but they got me a great price of the car exactly I wanted. They work with the fleet dealers and I was surprised when the fleet guy said he would expect me to have me service my car at his dealership. I figured that buying online I would have a "car without a dealer" but he explained that VW just considers that I bought the car from him and they will keep track of my customer service through him.
6. Another note on fleet dealers, Once I got talking to this guy I felt that the fleet salesmen are the guys that have paid their dues and are the true professionals of the dealership. They dont have to hustle the floor like they used to and really have the whole experience worked out.
7.I also asked the dealer if I could of got the same price if I walked in the door right now on the Passat 2001.5. He said most dealerships wont want to discount much until about 3 weeks from now. The new TV and radio spots are just starting and he said that unless you have a good source(the fleet dealer owed the broker a favor) then the dealer really dont want to discount the cars until after they see how well they sell the next couple of weeks. He said by early April you could get good discounts on them.
7. Pricing
2001.5 Passat Silverstone Grey, tiptronic, monsoon, cd in trunk, luxury package: $24519 out the door with tax and title $26897, financed with VW and total time spent shopping for car 7 days.
I've seen two of these in my recent search for a 2001.5 in the central NJ area. It's a real desciptive name; it looks just like the blue of a BIC pen; I think BMW has (or recently had) a very similar color. It's pretty sharp, although not what I was looking for. I've been driving my 2001.5 Silverstone Gray for about a week now and love it; can't believe the power on the 1.8 T 4Cyl !!
What rates is VW offering? PBailey--did you get a good rate? What state are you in? Also, I assume since you mentioned that e-loan was not being accepted by most dealers, that you had obtained financing through them and were using it as a negotiation tool. Since it was rejected, where else did you find competing rates? It seems like many of the national banks have ridiculously high rates 10+%--I just assume they don't want to be in the car loand business.
just this week, we test drove both a V6M and 4 turboA Passat. I loved the 4turbo and even though I had my doubts about the triptronic transmission, I must admit, it was fun to drive although the engine is a bit noisy on the 4 compared to the 6. the qoute we got for the above mentioned car was $24,225 w/o tax & license. What do you think? Is this a good price or can we do better? Area is Pittsburgh, PA. We left without the above mentioned car. Know that if they sell it, another will come along sooner or later, but I sure did love that Passat in that color - the graystone? It was loaded although I could honestly do without the heated seats/side mirrors, etc. It didn't have a CD player though. Any info you can supply would be grateful.
Am looking to buy a 2001.5 and have may questions.
What are the market condictions on 2001.5 i.e. is the general consensus that people like them more or less than the older style, what is current production status and how is it affecting supply?
Are there any incentives (dealer or consumer) incentives for this new model, including special interest rates?
Many people have posted here that VW is sending out alot of GLS's with luxury and leather but not as many GLX's--is this still true? What are they producing the most of?
Have also seen posted or suggested here that there is a premium for the silver. True?
What color combinations and model are in the highest demand?
I am interested in the GLS (V6) with leather and luxury but notice that the summation of all options to the GLS is still less than the GLX. What is this price premium on the GLX? There must be features in the GLX that is not available undery any option.
Have read that the 1.8 Turbo is noticeably affected by humidity. Anyone experienced the same?
Also, what can I expect with the additional 20 hp in the V6 vs 1.8? Is there any noticeable difference?
Have also read that because the 1.5's just came out, that dealers will not be coming down from the MSRP or offering incentives until early april. Is this true.
Realizing the 1.5's just came out within the last few weeks, does anyone have any indications on actual sales prices on these yet? What is considered a fair price on these? e.g. +4%, +3%? What is the market demanding?
Everyone on this site and others say you must check out on-line/direct dealers but it seems every site I have checked either 1) is out of business 2) doesn't do business in my state (TX) or 3) takes my information then passes the information to a local dealer(which completely defeats the purpose) or 4) gives me 'invoice pricing' which can be found anywhere. I have tried carsdirect.com, greenlight.com, stoneage.com. I figure pitting 2 or more dealers against another is the best negotiating tool, I don't see how on-line dealers add provide this.
There seem to be plenty of the GLX level trim in my area (DC Metro), and also plenty of the GLS 1.8T. What there probably won't be too many of are the GLS V6 cars, primarily because of the small horsepower/large price difference between the 4 and 6 cylinder Passats. I know that at least in my area, the local dealers all got together and told VWOA that they didn't want the GLS V6 4-motion cars at all. The GLX also has dual power seats with driver side 3-position memory, electronic climate control, self-dimming rear-view mirror, and Homelink system. This is above and beyond the standard features which comprise the GLS luxury, leather, and monsoon audio packages. How much people are willing to negotiate depends entirely on how popular the cars are in your area. I'm sure there are some Texas people on here who can give you good feedback on that area. One thing you can try in your search is to shop CSI as well as price. Ordinarily, the dealers with the best customer service scores go out of their way to make the process as painless as possible for you, even the whole negotiating part of it.
Is it true that you can operate the Passat with 87 octane and not see any performance or long term engine problems? A sales person told me that although premium gas is recommended, I should not have a problem with 87 octane as long as I bought from reputable gas companies.
Comments
You mixed up one thing though - the $129 was for after market window tinting (this is South Florida), not for "pure profit pinstriping." I think that's a good price, but more importantly I wanted to use the dealership's tinter based on the assumption that they know how to do the Passat properly, especially the back window.
So, $837 - 117 - 129 = $591. That's a little higher than my estimate because you included the invoice price on the CD-changer.
Also, I don't consider it a lowball - they didn't know I wanted the CD or tinting when they quoted me a price.
Of course, I don't see many of the other price related posts including dealer prep info. To compare apples to apples, you need to account for those items. Everyone should be encouraged to include that kind of info. (I think I may have included enough detail to convince certain other posters that I am not full of it)
Also, every dealer bid which I got based on invoice (i.e., invoice + 3%, etc.)included the $117 for port fee and floor plan fee (i.e., invoice on a GLX Tip was $27,854, not $27,737) Everything else on the contract was tax and tag, all-in-all a nice clean deal.
I am looking to purchase a new 2001.5 GAS wagon. The best I was able to negotiate was bout 700 over invoice on a 2001 model. So anything you could help me with to make a better deal on a 2001.5 would be greatly appreciated. Also I probably will be getting this as a lease for my company so any advice there would help also. Thanks
Probably done on purpose to ensure selling those ones. It seems like they are kind of a risk to bring to the US market, and most of us are pretty leery about their impact.
Jason
I've got offer for GLS 1.8T with manual, no options for
19900$+397$ dealer fee. How that sounds?
What dealer in the Indy area did you purchase from?
and is $22,800 a good price for the new Passat. before tax, title.....
Jeet Patel
Some markets where advertising costs for the manufacturers are much higher particularly have them, it's part of the cost of doing business there. Much as a House in most any major city in the northeast costs multiples of what it will cost here in Orlando. (I ought to know, Im originally from Tenafly, NJ!). and also how the costs of living here are higher than Pensacola, but lower than Miami.
So these are usually legit charges. However, since the invoice info on the 'net is not direct from the manufacturers, it often doesn't have regional info such as this.
Hope this helps to explain it!
Bill
I believe this is also intended, by them, to cover the port prep and floorplan charges.
Jason
Dealers/manufacturers are hoping that consumers will consider a "measly $25 port prep fee" to be basically "part" of the destination fee. But, what *exactly* is "port prep"--does it have to do with packing or unpacking the cars on the boats?! Why in the world is this separated out from the "destination charge"?!
As for the "floorplan reserve" and "regional advertising" fees--these kinds of expenses are more than covered by the "holdback." But, if these costs are not able to be covered by the "holdback", they SHOULD be covered by either increasing the holdback or offering additional factory-to-dealer incentives...it's a dealer vs. manufacturer issue, or a dealer inefficiency issue, or some kind of issue that isn't my problem!
If you don't want to pay any fees, you can certainly try to negotiate them right out of your deal. The fact that various fees are now appearing in itemized form on the invoice doesn't mean diddily squat--and it makes me feel even more uncomfortable about the reliability of this padded out "invoice." Basically, somebody, somewhere wanted to squeeze out more profit and they figured out a way to "soften the blow" by making up all kinds of official sounding fees.
The "helpful information" provided by the above dealers about these fees is exactly what you would hear from a salesman at the dealership. They are passing along "an explanation." But, just because this explanation "makes sense," doesn't mean that these fees are something that we should be willing to pay.
I guess we have two options--either we can utterly refuse to pay them, or we can complain very loudly and drive an even tougher bargain on the final price.
Oh, I guess there is that third option--we can just pay whatever they want us to and quit our whining...
vwvortex.com
Forums
Passat (B5)
Topic: "recieved counter B5.5 offer"
Also, for those interested in a GLX, check out "Pricing on 2001.5 GLX" in the same forum...
Price side of an Invoice and are not a part of the Monroney Label in the window either. These
are not fees passed along to the customer; they
are an addition to the Dealer's cost for the car.
If a customer is getting a straight discount off
of the Retail/MSRP price of the car these fees
would never even be seen. However, for the customer who is negotiating a price over the Dealers Invoice then, indeed, these numbers are a part of that Invoice. The same applies to any regional advertising fees...they too are added to
the Dealer's cost of the car, and are not a part
of the Retail price of the car.
In answer to the question regarding what is Port
Prep and why it is not part of the Destination Fee...Destination Fees are the cost of transporting the car from Emden or Hanover to the
US and for the Carrier, Wagoneers, to deliver the
car to the Dealership. Port Prep involves all the
work that is done on the vehicle once it reaches
the Port of San Diego, the Port of Houston or
Delaware. Every VW goes through a thorough inspection process at each Port...if repairs are
required they are done at the Port facility...
whether it be mechanical or cosmetic. In lieu of
attaching a specific fee for these repairs the
Port Prep fee is attached to each car the dealer
receives. The reason that it is seperate is because the Ports of San Diego, Houston, and Delaware do not transport vehicles, they process
them for delivery to over 600 US Dealers including
making sure that about 1000 cars a day, 365 days
a year go to the right place and in a timely &
efficient manner.
Per vwguild, all cars must be inspected after they arrive at the U.S. port AND customers are being asked to pay this fee. Next, we will be asked to pay an "inspection fee" at the port in Germany, to inspect for damage after the journey from the factory to the German port AND an additional inspection fee to check on damage after the journey from the U.S. port to the dealership. What about an inspection at the end of the assembly line? What about U.S. customs fees?
A specific comment on: "In lieu of attaching a specific fee for these repairs the Port Prep fee is attached to each car the dealer receives." Wouldn't insurance cover such inspections and repairs--why is the consumer being asked to pay for the negligence of a sailor who trips and slams his marlin spike right through the hood of a silverstone gray Passat?!
You asked a question; I answered it...If you don't
like the answers; don't ask the questions.
But here's the rub: it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if I don't like them, or if you don't like them, or if everyone and their mother doesn't like them. The dealer gets charged seperately for all of these fees, and believe me, when the dealer cuts a check to the manufacturer for the car, they don't have an option of arguing over them.
Now you can say you refuse to pay them. People do all of the time. But that doesn't mean they magically disappear. Some dealers may say that you don't have to pay them. And then they're only willing to go down to $600 over, whereas if you accepted invoice with the extra fees, they would go down to $500 over. There is always going to be a point where the dealer is willing to let you leave rather than discount anymore. And whether you're willing to pay these fees or not, its the same exact point in overall dollars.
Jason
"You asked a question; I answered it...If you don't like the answers; don't ask the questions." All I can say to this, vwguild, is "WHAT?" I didn't realize that I had to "like" the answers to questions I asked...
ffxvw, while I sympathize with the "dealer's plight" of having to pay these fees, I think that this is really something you need to take up with VWoA--you guys are getting screwed! But, I'll thank you not to pass along the screwing to me and other consumers.
As for the bottom-line at the end of the negotiation remaining the same: for those who blandly accept fees, the bottom-line has, of course, gone up. And those who are knowledgeable about and dispute such additional charges, they, of course, wind up paying a more reasonable price.
If no one agrees to pay these fees, and if people pay only in relation to a stable invoice price, then guess what--those fees actually would "magically disappear." Dealers would not be able to use them to pad out the out-the-door price. Whether or not actual prices would immediately expand out to the fee-filled level, I have no idea. But, as long as people are educated about pricing, shop around, and are willing to walk, they will get the best possible deal.
Just because something is called a "fee" does not mean that it can't be negotiated around--especially if people can muster a good argument to dispute its legitimacy.
All of this is about negotiation. I know when I walk into a dealership that most salesmen will utilize ten different tactics intended to separate me from more of my money. I am suggesting that "fees" of this nature are a tactic in this catagory--no matter where these fees originate from.
Let's see, in the last dozen posts we have heard from no less than FOUR different dealers. You are right, there IS a lot of hot air blowing around here...
As consumers we must be assertive!
Volkswagens cost too much! When you're sitting down at the desk with the salesman, ask him to get you a cup of coffee. The grab the keys and steal the car! Now you REALLY got a good deal!
WHAT? That real estate Agent said that a small house in Northern New Jersey is $200,000? THATS NUTS! Tell her that you can get one JUST Like it in Pocatello, Idaho for $60K! Be Assertive! DEMAND a Better price!
I did this at Tower Records ALL the time! I go up to the counter and REFUSED to pay the sales tax at their store in NY City because I lived in NJ! I also DEMANDED a Discount because I dont need the CD Jewel case. I keep my CDs in a Book.
I just told the people at the Orange County Florida Tax Collectors office where to go! They wanted $45 or so for a STICKER for my License plate! $45 for a STICKER??? NUTS! I told them $1!
Bill
I don't sell volkswagons.
I don't own one.
I don't plan on buying one any time soon.
Why do I read this thread??
ITS YOU BROTHER! YOU!!
I come home from work , need some entertainment, and I come here to read YOUR posts. Tonight I almost fell out of my chair reading your posts, and now my stomach muscles are sore from the laughter.
You the man!
I am your number one fan. Keep up the good work.
Thanks
Jason
In truth, I think that car dealers are entitled to charge whatever the market will bear. If they want to take normal items of overhead and break them out as separate fees, that's their perogative. Personally, I think it is a lame practice, but I don't run the dealership and apparently they make more money doing it that way. They are in business to make money after all.
The real problem is when the charges are handled deceptively, such as hiding them until the last minute. It part, it depends on how the deal is handled - if the dealer promises a price of MSRP minus 3% and then adds back $350 in "fees" that is deceptive because in reality he would only be offering MSRP minus 2% even though promising something else. If the dealer promises invoice plus 3% and tries to tell you that invoice includes all of these fees, I would consider that a lame business practice, but not necessarily deceptive as long as the information wasn't hidden or misrepresented.
The main problem is that EVERY auto manufacturer does this. It probably started with just one clever guy, who said, "If I break out my shipping costs as "Destination Fee", my car looks like its cheaper!". Now, to keep their prices as low as possible, all of the manufacturers break out as many fees as possible just to keep up.
Hmmm...now if they would just let me run things for a while... }:)
Jason
1. There is an unadvertised dealer incentive rebate of $1000-$1500 on the 2001 Passats.
2. Once I found the car I wanted, I had a hard time getting any dealer to give a reasonable deal until I came in with other prices from online sources.
3. Find out your credit score before you walk into a dealer. I got a "quick quote" based on my score. I also got the dealer to beat my APR rate from my credit union. Get financed before you go in, you don't have to use it.
4. Eloan is not accepted at most dealers right now. They are not paying all of their checks and 3 dealers said that their managers would not take the checks, 2 of them were polite and said "We would rather not use them, there paperwork is a pain, but when pressed they admitted it was because of their poor financial status.
5. Carsdirect.com found me the car much easier than looking myself. It took 2 days for my representative(Hugh) to get the deal. They will try to finance you and get you a warranty... to beef up their sale, but they got me a great price of the car exactly I wanted. They work with the fleet dealers and I was surprised when the fleet guy said he would expect me to have me service my car at his dealership. I figured that buying online I would have a "car without a dealer" but he explained that VW just considers that I bought the car from him and they will keep track of my customer service through him.
6. Another note on fleet dealers, Once I got talking to this guy I felt that the fleet salesmen are the guys that have paid their dues and are the true professionals of the dealership. They dont have to hustle the floor like they used to and really have the whole experience worked out.
7.I also asked the dealer if I could of got the same price if I walked in the door right now on the Passat 2001.5. He said most dealerships wont want to discount much until about 3 weeks from now. The new TV and radio spots are just starting and he said that unless you have a good source(the fleet dealer owed the broker a favor) then the dealer really dont want to discount the cars until after they see how well they sell the next couple of weeks. He said by early April you could get good discounts on them.
7. Pricing
2001.5 Passat Silverstone Grey, tiptronic, monsoon, cd in trunk, luxury package: $24519 out the door with tax and title $26897, financed with VW and total time spent shopping for car 7 days.
email me and I'll give you an update on your
new car...
Question: Did you get the leather package or go with cloth interior?
Thanks
the qoute we got for the above mentioned car was $24,225 w/o tax & license.
What do you think? Is this a good price or can we do better? Area is Pittsburgh, PA. We left without the above mentioned car. Know that if they sell it, another will come along sooner or later, but I sure did love that Passat in that color - the graystone? It was loaded although I could honestly do without the heated seats/side mirrors, etc. It didn't have a CD player though.
Any info you can supply would be grateful.
What are the market condictions on 2001.5 i.e. is the general consensus that people like them more or less than the older style, what is current production status and how is it affecting supply?
Are there any incentives (dealer or consumer) incentives for this new model, including special interest rates?
Many people have posted here that VW is sending out alot of GLS's with luxury and leather but not as many GLX's--is this still true? What are they producing the most of?
Have also seen posted or suggested here that there is a premium for the silver. True?
What color combinations and model are in the highest demand?
I am interested in the GLS (V6) with leather and luxury but notice that the summation of all options to the GLS is still less than the GLX. What is this price premium on the GLX? There must be features in the GLX that is not available undery any option.
Have read that the 1.8 Turbo is noticeably affected by humidity. Anyone experienced the same?
Also, what can I expect with the additional 20 hp in the V6 vs 1.8? Is there any noticeable difference?
Have also read that because the 1.5's just came out, that dealers will not be coming down from the MSRP or offering incentives until early april. Is this true.
Realizing the 1.5's just came out within the last few weeks, does anyone have any indications on actual sales prices on these yet? What is considered a fair price on these? e.g. +4%, +3%? What is the market demanding?
Everyone on this site and others say you must check out on-line/direct dealers but it seems every site I have checked either 1) is out of business 2) doesn't do business in my state (TX) or 3) takes my information then passes the information to a local dealer(which completely defeats the purpose) or 4) gives me 'invoice pricing' which can be found anywhere. I have tried carsdirect.com, greenlight.com, stoneage.com. I figure pitting 2 or more dealers against another is the best negotiating tool, I don't see how on-line dealers add provide this.
The GLX also has dual power seats with driver side 3-position memory, electronic climate control, self-dimming rear-view mirror, and Homelink system. This is above and beyond the standard features which comprise the GLS luxury, leather, and monsoon audio packages.
How much people are willing to negotiate depends entirely on how popular the cars are in your area. I'm sure there are some Texas people on here who can give you good feedback on that area.
One thing you can try in your search is to shop CSI as well as price. Ordinarily, the dealers with the best customer service scores go out of their way to make the process as painless as possible for you, even the whole negotiating part of it.
Jason
or 93 Octane, whatever is available where you are.
89 is acceptable with all other engines.
I had a hell of a time even finding a Silver GLX Manual here in FL. I had to call around all over the state to even find the car.
Although that was like 3 weeks ago I think...
Bill