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Comments
paid on all remaining 2000 to Dealers last month...$1000 back of invoice plus a few hundred...$3-$500 should get your deal done...
NO $$$ on 4MOTION though...different deal there.
drive home...and are ready to do that...I would
not take this and shop with it...You can feel
comfortable saying that you know that they have
gotten, or are getting this incentive $$$ and this
is your offer on this car, and I want to take it
home now...no locates, etc. Take the time to find
the best one for you and your family first. It will make the experience alot more pleasant for you that way. This is a rock bottom deal...start
at $300 and be happy with $500...they might do $400...see what happens...
I drive a lot and am looking for comfort and handling as well as reliability.
THANKS!!
i assumed costco or aaa pre-arranged ONE set price, but looks like each dealership cuts their own deal with these programs. i don't see how $1000 is considered a savings since most ppl here have gotten it for less, but i suppose that defeats what the programs are set to do, which is to supposedly give one price without negotiations.
By way of analogy: You can get a Canon camera at Costco, or you can get a Canon camera through the internet or through mail order. Each will be a different price, with Costco's being the highest.
My friend got a better price on her new CRV from a dealer than from Costco.
A 4 motion would be ideal, but the front wheel drive is just as responsive.
PS Thanks to (vwguild) for the Programs
Standard equipment as well...AND the 4MO will
romp thru the MN. snow like a reindeer...
Q#1)Invoice on GLX 4MO wagon according to some websites is $29,775 although Edmund's says ( without 4MO ) "Passat
3B55SR Wagon GLX 4-Dr 5-Speed
Invoice: $26,348 " . There seems to be about $1600 difference . Which is correct ?
Q#2) Assuming it's $29,775, is a fair deal for all involved Invoice + $1000 + Destination charge ?
Q#3) The gray leather is a little boring to my taste . Black looks great , but a friend of mine said don't get black cause of the heat absorption if the car is in the sun . Is there really a noticeable temperature difference between black vs gray or biege interior ?
Q#4) On driving the 4MO GLX wagon , I noticed a slight hesitation in connecting when accelerating from a stop getting into 1st gear . Dealer told me this was a characteristic of the 4MO system. Any further thoughts or clarification ? Thanks very much . What is your E-mail address ? Thanks , Richard RD121234@AOL.com
accustomed to my 5Speed.
Yes there is a lub (as in Lub/Dub, like a heartbeat) hesitation both in 1stGear and in Drive
Tiptronic speak...However, if you want it to go away...just floor it; goes away instantly.Awesome!
Now getting back to your purchase...The Port Prep
& Reserve, which has been discussed here at some point, is $117...there in lies some of the variance...Destination is always included in the
invoice price of a VW...it shows as a charge on
both sides (left&right) of the invoice...It should
never be construed as Invoice plus Destination.
I offer a $1000 discount on every GLX 4MO which
would be $31,360 for the wagon...Regardless of color ...However...I have a White/Black
sedan that I would probably be inclined to move a
bit on because no one seems to like that combination...You have to decide what you and your
family want as a #1 Choice vs. #2. And check stock
numbers on the Wagons that you are looking at...
the lower numbers have been there the longest, but
most important try to do this thru their Internet
Sales Manager. She or He will be much more atuned
to where you are coming from and should be able
offer you a FIRM price plus Tax, Title, and Lic.
And once again have you financing taken care of
first...if you were looking at any 5 speed Passat
then there are some great rates from VCI that no
bank can compete with, but you saw them at my sight so you know that...
email here is westerVW@msn.com
Happy Thanksgiving!!!
VWguild, you mentioned that VW dealers were in the process of forming their own internet sales coalition. Where are things at with this and do they intend to be competitive with other internet pricing?
addresses PLEASE....
Will the 2.5s have a price hike/higher value ?And will the 2001s have a lower value and then be blown out at a bigger discount ? If I were to order a GLX4Mo wagon 2.5 today a) when would I realistically receive it and drive it away and b) do dealers let you rent/lease a car for the intervening months while waiting for the 2.5 delivery ? Thanks again for your helpful info !Richard
vwguild right here...
Now as to your questions...I can ONLY speak from
what I know about the West Coast...Our cars, all,
come into the Port of San Diego. The midwest is
served by the Port of Houston.
With the exception of maybe a couple of stragglers...The Passats that I have on the ground today are it until the 3rd or 4th week of
January. A vessel with 1800 cars leaves Emden, Germany on the 2nd of December arriving here 28 Dec. All 2001.5 cars to be divided between the entire western US; 7 states.
Now I have discussed this before, but once again,
the market is going to dictate pricing and availablity on these cars. The European Market gets first crack at everything we build there...if the new facelifted Passat is well received there, as I suspect it will, then our
allocations on these cars will be just as competitive as it has been in the past. The better stores, ie., Sales/Service Satisfaction
best performers will get the pick of the best.
I do not plan to have any 2001 Passats by the 3rd week of January based simply on normal monthly sales volume.
Another component is that there are customers who like the Passat as it is, and will not want the new look...went thru this with the Jetta a couple of years ago...
There is no pricing currently available on the 2001.5. As to discounts...I really do not see that
as a very likely scenario in Q1. and certainly no
on the higher end of the product line. It is all
supply vs. demand. I cannot, for example, see Intel discounting their new Pentium IV chips next
week.
No, we do not provide interim transportation for
customers waiting for ordered cars, but that is
us...check with your local dealer.
VWVORTEX.COM has a great deal of info on the new Passat 2001.5 check them out...
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving...hope this too has been helpful....
What are VW dealers planning to do to meet the challenge of lower prices on the internet?
inventory...and as to your question...I do not
understand what you are asking...
GLX AWD in the northern Fla. area (Gainesville,
Jax or possibly Orlando). Can someone explain
what you are getting for the "tiptronic" option
and is it worth it? Thanks!
All 4-Motions (AWD) come standard with the tiptronic. So, if you want AWD, you must get the tiptronic.
dealer holdback, it is the dealer's
administration fee. You can tell
how often I buy cars!
Then tell him that the only "fees" you will pay are "port prep" and "floorplan interest reserve," which amount to $117, and the $525 destination fee. Tell him that his "administrative " expenses are covered by his profit (the sum of holdback + the $1000 above invoice markup)--that you will not pay any arbitrary "fees." If he doesn't want to conduct a straightforward transaction then walk away.
But, I'm confused by the numbers you mentioned. The quote you have must be referring to a GLX FWD or a GLS AWD, NOT the GLX 4Mo (AWD) that you referred to in your previous posts. The GLX 4Mo has an invoice price of 28,528 + 525 destination + 117 port/floorplan = 29,170 Add on $1000 and you get to $30,170. Hmm....check everything again.
Is it really hard to get a deal on 4Motion Passats or is he just trying to sell me an A6.
I like power, and I like 5-speeds. The only space constraint I have is for my two dogs - a 70lb Lab, and a 60lb Vizsla. They have to ride - 1 per window in the back seat. The prices I have from my dealer are great - at cost. $2900 separate the two (the Jetta has the 17" alloy sport package on top).
I am eager to hear from those who know. I have owned Nissan's for the last 10 years. I have heard good things about German cars. Was going for an Audi until I realized that VW's are also great cars for less money.
Thanks!
I rely on Consumer Reports but they not giving reliability record for every year for 4 cyl. or for 6 cyl. What do you have to say about it.
Does anyone has GLS '99 or '00 that already have something to share.
Thanks
Joeb23, the availability and pricing of a 4Motion just depends. I trust that you have checked with multiple dealers and pitted them against each other and that you are referring to a new 2001 and not last year's 2000 model. This is an ESSENTIAL first step. Moreover, if you live in the sunbelt, 4Mo's WILL be less valuable. And, if the dealer has several on the lot, then demand is not as high as he might want you to believe. In addition, the GLX 4Mo is the top-of-the-line model and, many would claim, perhaps priced too high to begin with for any VW. Once you add in these factors, and mix in a little competition, I think you will find that this dealer will be more willing to give you a better deal--around $30K would be fair.
As for his "helpful suggestion" of stepping up to an Audi--this is a classic up-sell. If you do a bit of research you will discover that an Audi A6 Quattro with the same options (leather, moonroof, seat memory, etc.) is about $8000 more than a Passat GLX 4Mo--not the $4000 he is claiming. Though an Audi does come with a better resale value--along with a much longer 4yr/50Kmile warranty--I am not sure if this is worth $8K or if you actually want to spend this much more. An Audi is a better car, and the actual price reflects this.
I have considered the A6 option as well, but only by comparing a used 1999 A6Q to the GLX 4Mo--only then do you get the prices closer together.
Remember, the 4Mo has some negatives as well--it's heavier, slower, and gets worse gas mileage. Don't get one unless you are sure that you want one--and if you are sure that you are getting a fair price.
If you can't cut through this dealer's BS quickly than don't waste your time with him.
The Passat GLX w/4-motion is a great car, however, all Passats currently have availability problems, especially if your local dealer is a smaller store. This is throwing online Passat sales into chaos. There are several buying services out there that are getting into big trouble by quoting prices and taking orders, and then not being able to actually get a car. So be careful with using these information sources and services. Canvassing dealers is a time-honored way to price check, but it can be quite time consuming. You have to decide what's the best technique for you.
Jason
You basically are saying that neither an online search, nor an effort to try other dealers will yield a better price. Pretty pessimistic, but EXACTLY what I would expect a dealer to suggest--"this is the best price out there--but don't bother to check."
For all those interested in getting a good deal: the "best technique" for negotiation is to introduce competition.
I wouldn't suggest jumping at the first offer, that is just silly. My personal suggestion to anyone looking at a car, for minimum fuss, is to formulate what you think a fair price is, and then call or e-mail dealers one at a time until someone either meets your goal, or if none can do it, revise your offer upward $150-$200 at a time.
That's what I would do.
Jason
In particular, and in fact, you did not characterize the Passat market itself as "chaotic," instead, you claimed that online buying was chaotic, and basically disreputable. If you have a particular example to share about online buying, then please go ahead. But, your attempt to introduce a nasty rumor about some of your chief competitors was laughably hamfisted. Unfortunately, libeling your competition is often effective--and it is entirely appropriate for someone to call you on it. [I invite those who have had a pleasent and successful online buying experience to chime in...]
And now, in your second post, I am having a little trouble reconciling your assertion that the Passat is in scarce supply when you yourself have "6-cylinders coming out of your ears"--the GLX 4Mo that started this discussion IS a 6-cylinder, is it not?
To the degree that you or any other dealer wants to frequent this site in order to provide helpful information regarding either securing or enhancing their auto, then I don't have any quarrel with you. But, if you are here to spread rumors that will create consumer panic--and jack up your profits--then I, for one, will point out the weaknesses in your "sales pitch."
Who do I think I am? Just some guy who has half a brain, and wants other people to have a fair and pleasent car buying experience...
I checked the lot and found six GLX, and plenty of GLS.
I really don't know if this was just a dealer talk, or those are real prices? Can someone explain it to me? It's Chicago area. Steve
My advice to take online buying services and information sources with a grain of salt is based on my experiences as an Internet Sales Manager. I have had to deal with a large number of people who were misinformed or misled by these sources.
And to let you know, I get paid on volume, not on margin, so the only profit I hold is the minimum to get my GSM to take the deal.
Not all dealers are evil, relax.
Jason
P.S. I have had three customers in the past week who had their deposit returned from a direct buying service because no dealers would provide the cars to them.
Online sales of _2001 Passats_ are slowing down a little. BUT WHY?...
Because this is the END of the 2001 model year--there are not very many 2001 Passats left. WHY?...
Because they are being phased out--you guys are trying to unload them like hotcakes because their value is falling. WHY?...
Because the brand spanking new 2001.5s are coming in about two months.
All online buying services are quite clear about this "limited availability of 2001 Passats at this time." If someone decides, nonetheless, to put down a deposit on a 2001 Passat, and the online buyer can't find one in their remote corner of the country, then that customer has NOT been "misinformed" or "mislead." This is contrary to your misinformation.
Just wait until next year, when VW stocks your shelves with the new model. At that point, online buying services will be able to freely acquire Passats--and help to drive down your inflated prices.
Contrary to what you may have heard, Passats are not *that* scarce. Online buying services (like carsdirect.com, greenlight.com, etc.) "hand deliver" buyers to dealers. Such transactions, while not involving obscene profit margins, do yield a fair profit margin, and require little dealer effort.
BTW, this is similar to how online "referral services" (like autobytel.com) work. They hook up savvy shoppers with dealers looking for customers.
Dealers do business with both online buying services and online referral services because this allows them to make a fair profit margin with relatively little effort. If it wasn't profitable for dealers, they would not engage in these transactions.
Hope that helps...
pontificating? This seems to be an unending stream
of 1/2 truths spewed forth with no documentable
authority by a bitter VW owner in search of a new
Nissan; who is as anonymous as John Doe.
Everytime someone is in the automobile industry
tries to pass along any helpful information they
are met with these ramblings...please go back to
post #193 and read on to #253 for a brief example.
This forum, as I understand it, is for the exchange of HELPFUL information regarding the VW
Passat and the Smart Shopper. It is not only intended to be constructive, but enjoyable as well. Opposing OPINIONS are the cornerstone of this type of venue, but what is coming out of this
poster is being set forth as FACTS; not opinions and, like most well constructed lies, are garnished with sprinkles of truth...This is particularly harmful coming from an anonymous source, and certainly takes any enjoyment out of
participating...
but a MAAzda
Ok, I'll gladly bite even if it isn't about Passats. And I have a friend of mine in the market for one here in FL and he's having a heck of a time finding a deal on one.
Generally, Since I work in the business I can get a pretty good deal on one I thought. No dice so far. The trick is even finding a Silver GLX 5-Sp for him.
That being said, would you like some examples?
>If you have a particular example to share about >online buying, then please go ahead. But, your >attempt to introduce a nasty rumor about some of >your chief competitors was laughably hamfisted.
Let's see if you can post responses to this without personal attacks like every other poster in here has been able to do! It's just a chat forum!
Carsdirect.com has recently inundated us with orders for discounted Ultra-Luxury LS430s. (I work for Lexus) promising these vehicles to customers quickly. They have all been either White or Silver (Even if they list colors from the 1998 LS400 on their website).
I have a serious backlog of these cars in light colors. I certainly cannot get you one before January at the very earliest, probably closer to February if you need chrome wheels as all of these ordered cars are coming in with.
"But, we promised the customer the car as a Christmas gift for his wife"
Well, we're going to be getting 1-2 White Ultra Luxurys per month from here on in. We have 7 orders from our customers for white Ultra Luxury LS430s. Our Local customers, of course, will get priority. Not some guy in Miami. Not that we have anything against him, but it's good business sense to take care of your local customers first. Also, selling outside of your territory is frowned upon by Lexus.
They are apparently calling every dealer in the state trying to fill the orders without any luck. I'd imagine they have several angry customers.
They also sell the car for $10,404 over invoice (This is a $70K+ car we're discussing) And expect to pay $2,000 over from us. Not going to happen.
They want to make $8400. Expect us to make $2000.
They are also telling customers that they can get them White LX470s with Navigation while they are very very very hard to get right now and I have a waiting list for them.
They have also sent me the two following requests:
Silver GS300 with Cloth (Special Order only)
Customer was told 2-week delivery timeframe. Will be 8-12 weeks.
Midnight Pine GS430 with Chrome 17" Wheels, Navigation and Premium Sound and Wing. We get 2 GS430s a month and do not order them in this color. We can't afford to! Also, quite likely a special order car. Customer was promised 2 week delivery.
Yes, Online car dealers are out to offer customers fair deals.. Currently they list GSs at above what we sell them for yet expect to buy them for near invoice. I don't buy it. Since the days of oversubsidised deals are over, I have yet to see them be that special pricewise. And, frankly, on many high-line cars, they're not that competitive!
Obviously it may be different on VWs, but I don't see where they are doing customers a favor.
CarOrder would also frequently send us orders for cars that, in reality, did not exist aside from special order and they would also cause nothing but headaches.
Here's an example: A customer I had at Volvo (Before I moved to FL) Wanted a very odd equipment combo. I tried searching for the car but it did not exist. We told the customer that it would be a special order. If I recall it was an S80 T6 without a Moonroof and with Navigation or something crazy like that. No problem, but not a car that we stocked. The customer also wanted an odd color combo.
CarOder was happy to tell them that the car would be no problem. Car Order basically Jerked the customer around with false promises (I did a national search for the car via Volvo's computer system, there were NO Venetian Red/Black T6s with Navigation in the country at ALL at the time, Irrespective of other equipment!)
After several other mess-ups we refused to do business with carorder We got nothing but Irate customers out of it. By the time that we would get involved to deliver or confirm it, the customers were generally quite irate.
It wasn't worth the bad CSI and unhappy customers to us at the time.
My Experiences...
Bill
I have read many of your posts, vwguild, and I, for one, appreciate what you have to offer in the way of facts about the Passat and honest information about how VW dealers work. On occasion, however, you and the other dealers who have popped in have passed along "information" that is really just part of a sales pitch. I don't see how you can claim that your posts of this kind are helpful to the consumer, or, for that matter, particularly accurate.
As I understand it, this site is designed for consumers. I am a consumer. I have not posted my name (or a VW dealer website address) because I am not here to expand my client base. Most of us have not posted our names or other "credentials."
You knew when you joined this forum that you would be welcomed by some as a "friendly dealer," and viewed by others as a "typical car salesman." You took this risk, in part, because you are a VW dealer and "want to better understand your customers."
I haven't been shy with my passionately held opinions, oftentimes to counteract "sales pitches," and I happen to be really enjoying this recent exchange. The fact is, we are both intelligent, opinionated people. I am trying to undercut your arguments, just as you are trying to undercut my arguments--except I haven't run to the forum host and asked for intervention.
I am here because I am looking to buy a Passat and I am "practicing" for my upcoming negotiations. I have learned from the comments of others and I hope that my comments prove helpful to others.
I must say, this forum is turning into a dealers convention.
Oh, and I promise to keep all future posts to 50 words or less
= $27142
Invoice (5spd, incl. dest. fee)
= $26873
% over invoice
= 1% (or $269)
additional fees:
= 3% tax (North Carolina)
= $58 registration
= $117 Port/Floor Fee
= $99 Documentation Fee
Thank you to all the posters in this forum.
I was totally prepared going into negotiations and not surprised by anything.
Oh yeah... the car is Silver with Black Interior. You'll have to ask my wife how it drives.
I haven't gotten the chance, yet.
Regards,
Jason
disc in-dash or Six Disc changer...both are Dealer
installed options.
In Europe, and on the Autobahn speed rules...no time or place to messing with CDs and the European
mentality rules at VW.
You may have noticed a small grid opening by the
map lights...that is for a *mic* for a cell phone;
in Europe it is against the law to drive with a cell phone stuck to the side of your head. It is
also against the law to drink in your car, which
is why ALL of the European cars do not boast 14
cupholders.
As a retired Calif. Paramedic I can tell you that the first thing a medic checks at the scene of an MVA is the airway...coffee stirrers, big hunks of a BIG Mac, you name it they are there, and that is at 65/75...Imagine changing a single CD at 120 MPH...I wouldn't...
50 words or less? Whoohoo!!!
Kidding...{ducks the slings and arrows}
Brentwoodvolvo,
Thanks for the more specific cautions about online buying services. I haven't been doing this very long, so I only have a few examples, mostly secondhand, of this kind of problem.
Doesn't it seem like there's an awful lot of agression in the car-buying process? Strange, when dealers and consumers have basically the same goals! It makes me wonder if the majority of the negotiating process is more ego-related than financial.
Any thoughts?
Jason
Re: online buying/brentwoodvolvo's post:
*CarOrder.com went out of business--perhaps because they weren't very good at it. Other online folks are still in business, perhaps because they are good at it.
*Anyone who agrees to pay $8K over MSRP and order their Lexus LS430 in purple, w/two sunroofs--"like in the Outback": 1)has too much money 2)hasn't done any research on the car they are buying.
On the other hand, smart people have bought online and saved money.