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Real-World Trade-In Values

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Comments

  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Well,

    Sounds like you're doing well with the new Accord. $300 over seems like a strong deal, and at that point, if you're within a smallish amount of where you want to be, to me, the way that you're treated and the ease of service that you are getting should also be coming into play.

    However, I still think that $8,500 is really a bit high on your trade. If you can get it, grab it and run, but let's look at how cars like yours are actually selling on the market:

    Miles in the 30-40K Range: $10K +/- $500 or so
    Miles in the 40-47K Range: $9K +/- $500 or so
    Miles around 50K or so: Approx $8,500 +/- $500
    Miles around 60K $7,500 or so again, +/- $500

    When you get over 70K, the cars start losing ground very quickly. And there's a reason for this. Once a car is over 50K Miles, it's tough to get secondary finance companies to loan much on it, or to go for a longer term. Bear in mind that many used car customers have credit issues. Once you go over 75K, most Banks simply will not finance the car. We just sent an absolutely gorgeous and immaculate 1998 LS400 to the auction. We could have retailed it for $24,900 or so, made a little bit and it wouild have sold quickly.. However:

    1) No extended warranty was available from us on that car (We only sell Lexus warranties) So that super high-tech car would have been sold totally as-is. Even though we all know how reliable and durable a Lexus is, this scares many customers.

    2) No bank would finance it. So it'd have to be an as-is, cash deal on a $25K car. Most people cant or wont pay cash for a car in that price range.

    Why? Odometer was at almost 89,000. Now, this car was nicer than a lot of 40K LS400s we get in, and 89K true highway miles on one of those is virtually nothing. But it would have been tough to deliver, not to sell.

    Your car is probably a wholesale item for most stores with the miles on it. As clean as it may be, it's still a tough sale for us. And most franchised dealers also want to retail the lower mile cars. Truth is, you can't go by the 5/8/10/15/20c/mile guide. On a lot of high-end cars, they can just get slaughtered by the miles. And some cars dont get hurt as bad as you might think. There's tons of late-model Accords out there, and for some reason, low mileage ones are quite easy to find. So the ones with paintwork or quite high mileage do go begging I'm afraid.

    Bill
  • dsgechodsgecho Posts: 89
    How about this in the Nashville, TN market:
    1996 Plymouth Voyager, 3.0L V-6, AC,ABS,Cruise Roof rack,PS, PB, 57500miles good condition, no wrecks well-maintained, 3-speed trans.- not hte 4-speed poblem tyoe.
    Thanks!
    Don
  • bretfrazbretfraz Posts: 2,021
    Have a friend who's looking at a 1996 Chrysler Sebring LXi coupe and I was wondering what these things are going for at wholesale to give him an idea of retail.

    It's got 42K, auto, V6, dark green with tan leather, all the usual goodies, no paint or bodywork, in Atlanta.

    Thanks for the insight!
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Well,

    I assumed it was an SE. Assuming that it's clean and isn't some horiffic color like Pink or Brown, and is free of paintwork, I'd say that about $7,000-7,500 or so is realistic for it. This, again, assumes a clean van.

    Hope this helps!

    Bill
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Well,

    I'd say that car's probably worth around $8,500 or so wholesale. So I'd say that a good retail deal would be about $10K or so on it. Don't pay $12K, but shoot to be around $10-10,500. Perhaps more if its' obviously been reconditioned extensively (New tires, etc..)

    Remember, we actually make a profit on used cars as a rule! :)

    Bill
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    OK, I've got a few for you...

    1996 Dodge Ram Sport 4x4 (not sure if it has the 5.2L or the 5.9L V8, but it's one of those). Reg cab, short bed. 80k miles, black, automatic. Truck is beat up pretty bad from being used as a work truck but it runs good. I know this one might be tough to put a number on.

    1998 Subaru Outback Rocky Mtn. Edition. Navy blue w/ gray trim on bottom, cloth seats, factory keyless/alarm, CD, heated seats, rear spoiler, 64k miles, 5 speed. Has a couple of dents from door dings, but that's it. Neither car has been in a wreck or had paintwork.

    1998 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4x4. Desert Dune (sandy) color, automatic, running boards, 16" aluminum (factory) rims w/ 31" tires, cloth interior, factory keyless/alarm, roof rack, rear wind deflector, cargo cover, cargo mat, rear heat. 34k miles, in great shape inside and out, only item is approx. 1/2" scratch on driver's door. Never been in an accident, no paintwork.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    OK... Let's see if I can help.

    1) The Dodge. You don't want to know. Even with the high miles, i'd still peg it at around $7K or so if it's clean. Perhaps more. However, if it's beat to death, I'd cautiously say half of that. A rough truck... with high miles... It's a tough sell.

    2) The Subaru. The miles do hurt, but if it's otherwise in decent shape as you say, I'd peg it at around $10,500-11,000 or so. Perhaps you can do a little better in CO, it's worth less down here obviously (More like $9500).

    3) The 4Runner. I assumed it was a 4-Cylinder 4WD, not a V6. That being said, I'd say $15-16K is right there in the range. If I had to put a hard number on it it would be $15,500.

    Hope this helps!

    I assume these are cars that you own and want to trade in?

    Bill
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    Thanks for the help in this topic, Bill. My wife is interested in a 525i Touring which means we have to sell/trade HER ti. Here are the gory details:
    1998 318ti Automatic- Fern(dark metallic)Green, Sand Leatherette
    45,000 miles
    Full BMW Store service history
    LF Fender replaced due to being clipped by inattentive(is there any other kind?) Caravan driver. Excellent work-the DOT sticker is the only clue.
    Options-Active Pack(cruise, OBC, alloys, remote entry/alarm), sunroof, heated seats, and CD changer. The car is very clean; the tires could use replacing and the oil service will be due in about 1,500 miles. I'm guessing around $16K trade $20K retail. In Louisville, of course. Thanks again.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Bailey,

    Ummm....heheh... ummm...

    You sure you wanna know?

    I went and Looked in the Black Book and at the wholesale reports....

    $13-14K trade-in. I think your car ought to pull $14K if its' as nice as you say.

    Good: It's your car. It's been a while but I know how you take care of them.

    Bad: Green, Paintwork, Tis seem to be weak.

    Sorry man :(

    You can always call me if ya wanna discuss. E-mail me at "[email protected]" for my #

    Bill
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Don't forget he mentioned the need for tires. I usually think your right on target but this one, in my humble opinion, is light.

    Rich
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    Thanks- I'll see what happens. It's an advantage when you don't NEED a new car; if they don't play nice you just walk...
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    The 4Runner is a V6.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    It has almost every available option (power everything) except leather, CD and moonroof.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    Here's the car Ann is looking at:
    1995 525i Touring, 64,100 miles, Silver/Black leather, Premium Pkg. and heated seats. It is supposed to have a service history, but I'm sure it needs at least an Oil Service. No paintwork, and the Michelin tires are 1/2-2/3 worn. Haven't test driven it yet, but all the gadgets appear to work. The dealer is asking $18,000. Thanks for your help.
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    Hope I did not miss your announcement. We are getting new kitchen cabinets and also having some remodeling of our home so I have not been able to carefully follow the Town Hall for a few weeks.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Well,

    If the 4RUnner is a 6-cyl then I'd go about $800 or so higher on it. I assumed most everything but Leather.

    Bill
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Umm,

    I may be bit high here. But, Rich, If you ever have seen how Div2 keeps his cars...

    Now, on to the 525iT. $18K doesnt seem bad at all assuming that it's clean, no paintowrk, and has a moonroof/leather. It ought to do close to $15,500 or so wholesale. Obviously, you want to try and buy it as low as possible, but $18K is a decent price for that car.

    Good color combo too.

    Bill
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    Thanks! We'll see what happens...
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    That sounds awfully low for the 4Runner. Here is a link to John Elway Toyota here in Denver. They are a one-price dealer, so the sticker prices are the selling prices. They've got two almost identical to mine listed for over $25k. I expect to get $22-23k for it at a minimum, not $16k...


    http://www.elwayautonation.com/inventory-full.cgi?make=Toyota&model=4RUNNER&state=CO&&extend=53786863&extend=52185393&

  • hkchanhkchan Posts: 420
    Hi brentwoodvolvo, almost two weeks ago, I asked about the trade-in value on a '99 Civic EX 4-dr with a 5-sp and ~75,000 miles. Isellhondas commented that the Civic was a "book" car. You thought it's around $6,500-$7,000. According the Edmunds, it's $9,781 "Clean" or $10,435 "Outstanding". According to KBB, it's $8,445 "Clean" or $9,245 "Excellent". I haven't checked NADA's. Do you have any comments?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    OK..

    Last post I wrote was a total guesstimate. I didnt have any books with me or auction guides and I was on the road.

    So let's do some closer looking here...

    I was Wrong! $22-23 isnt the number, but $20-21K is.

    $20,500 is where I hit it.

    Sorry!

    Bill
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    So for a private sale, I'm still looking at $22-23, right?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Well,

    Your car does have very high mileage, which hurts its' value terribly.

    I can currently buy cars like yours with around 30,000 Miles on them for about $9,900 in clean condition from Honda Financial off lease.

    Now, let's say your car only gets hurt by 10c/mile. That's another 45,000 miles! That's $4,500! If anything, I think that I was being somewhat conservative.

    You have a car that a dealer has a hard time financing because of the very high mileage. To say nothing that it's hard to sell to begin with. It's also a vehicle that few warranty companies will offer a warranty on.

    Now, Let's look at Kelley Blue Book. As I have posted before, the only trade-in that you should classify as "excellent" is a very high-demand car with exceptionally low mileage, in a good color in absolutely perfect, flawless, can't-tell-it-from-new condition. Like a Smoke Silver 1997 Mercedes Benz E320 with 26K miles and a lot of options. Or a Pearl White 1998 Lexus LS400 with 20K miles.

    Those are "excellent" cars.

    A "clean" car is an average mile car in nice shape, showing little wear with lowish mileage.

    A "fair" car has average miles, is in a lousy color (Bronze, Purple, etc) or is a clean or excellent car with some paintwork.

    Your car should be classified, because of the very high miles, at "fair" at the best. Also, the car being a 5-speed doesn't help.

    In Florida, that car "books" at Kelley's Website in "fair" condition at $7,475. Which I still think is somewhat High. The point is, and I hate to sound negative, but you have a car that the dealers do not want. Do we want a Silver or Black or White or Red one with low miles? Oh yes we do! Civics are hot property and sell easily.

    Do I want one with 75K miles? No. I am a dealer and I would wholesale that car. I would call 2-3 wholesalers and whoever gave me the highest bid would get it. That's what I would give you for it. When I first reponded I was sitting with a wholesaler. He said "Heck, I'd give about $3,500 back of rough (rough in Black Book, which is about $6,000) for it but ya might get close to $7K if ya find the right buyer"

    Bear in mind this topic was created to help people with trade valuations because a lot of the internet guides are really not that accurate. And there's nothing in it for me.

    Bill
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Yup!

    I'd say for a Private sale you want to be about halfway between trade-in and dealer retail.

    But if you can get $21K for it from a dealer (Which I think you ought to be able to do in CO), then it's, what, $22,200 with tax advantage?

    With a trade that valuable I'd think twice before selling it myself.

    Bill
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    It's coming off lease this summer and my buyout is around $20k (right now it's at about $21-21.5k). My sister wants to buy it (current owner of the Dodge pickup and Subaru Outback).

    Yeah, my taxes around here are only 3.8%, so it comes to just under $21,800 on $21k (or $800 savings). If my sister doesn't want it, then I might trade it, but I think she'll end up buying it.

    I guess if she doesn't want it, I might try to get $23k for it. If that doesn't fly, I'll probably just trade it. I know that color is good for those models and the car is in great shape with all maintenance records, so I don't think I'd have any trouble selling it myself.
  • hkchanhkchan Posts: 420
    Your professional and unbiased opinion is greatly appreciated. Yes, the price guides obviously can't be always accurate. Some may even claim they're always wrong. Still, I have more more questions. I went back to KBB's site. Their descriptions of the car's condition have no mention of mileage. There's a separate place to enter the mileage independent of the mileage. I punched in 24,000 miles instead of 75,000 miles and "excellent" (am not arguing my car is in such condition) as the condition. It came up with $12,795 instead of $9,245 for 75,000 miles. If I use 75,000 and "Fair" as you suggested, yes it came up with $7,050.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    You ought to do what I have told a lot of my customers to do 60-90 days before their lease end IF (Big "if") their residuals are close to wholesale.

    Make sure that ad's in the autotrader! Put it in there for 50-70% of the markup between KBB retail and actual wholesale (Say like $23-24K)

    It is $3K in yer pocket. And since it's virtually free money, make sure you buy something frivolous with it :)

    Bill
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Well,

    It's based more on my goofing around with their website. Generally, in real terms, Cars with very high mileage tend to get "bottom feeder" bids like I mentioned earlier. So it's better to be prepared ahead of time.

    And, like anything else, it's my opinion. Although I'm the one "in the trenches" buying and selling cars on a wholesale level as well as appraising them. I think the best and fairest way to appraise a car is by basing its' value on what I can sell it for at Auction. This way, I really know what it's worth!

    Bill
  • ddeliseddelise Posts: 355
    Hello -
    Thanks in advance for you help and information. I have about 34500 miles. The color is blue/green (very nice), with the tan leather interior. The car has some paint door dings. Nothing major, but they are there. The interior is perfect. What is the wholesale on this car??

    Also, I am looking to possibly get a 2000 Cadillac DeVille DTS. What does this car wholesale for?

    I am in Sunny FLA - Tampa actually.

    Damon
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    You made a very good point....
    a car is only worth what somebody will pay for it right now...
  • Well,

    Assuming no paintwork on the car (hich would hurt it) and with the way that you describe it I'd peg a dark teal one in pretty good shape with that mileage at about $14,500-15,000.

    Hope this helps! And this is based on Florida data!

    Bill in Orlando.
  • Well,

    You're smart to buy one of these used! Cadillacs suffer massive depreciation as a rule. Right now I can buy regular 2000 DeVilles for around $25K depending on color (More for White and Silver, Less for Green, Burgandy and especially Bronze). These seem to retail for up to $30K, but I'd shoot for Closer to $27K or so.

    As far as the DTSs go, the wholesale pricing on them seems to swing wildly, I am assuming this is due to equipment. But Im seeing wholesale between $37-40K on the few that have sold, only 4 in FL in the past 45 days or so.

    In fact, both of those were white cars with under 7K miles, so I'd hazard a guess that one must have had Navigation, Chrome Wheels, etc to bring that much more. Even the cars with pretty high miles will still do $35K and that was for one in an off color.

    So Shoot for somewhere around $40-43K depending on equipment as a buy price. I'm sure they will sell for more, but I bet you could find one with some careful shopping for that. Unlike a new car, dealers generally sell used cars for a profit ($500 over invoice is often a net break-even for us or very close, especially on a big ticket car) so don't expect to pay $500 over wholesale for one. Although, you could get lucky!

    Still, that's $10K cheaper than a new one!

    But be careful with the color. Make sure you buy one in Pearl White or Silver if possible. These will hold the best residual value whereas a Bronze car is currently worth a few thousand dollars less. On a Caddy, the wrong color can make it a very tough car to move I have found.

    I think with this, you may want to post an exact car so I can help you determine if the price is fair or not.

    Hope this helps!

    Bill
  • What formula does Edmunds apply for high mileage? Is it realistic/fair?

    My '96 Maxima GLE has 110,000 miles -- is the trade value closer to $10,000 (Edmunds) or $6,000 (Galves)?

    How much would a bank loan to a prospective buyer?
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    If the car is "all" there....meaning tires are close to new.... interior looks great, no burns, no color changes (a spoiler will add a little)...no or little sun damage/wear/ leather no-use look.."and" the vehicle doesn't "show" the 110,000 klicks(little on the path of dings and dents )..you can expect $5,500 to $6,200..Real money -(mileage kills it)... on paper a Dealer can "show" you anything......when it comes to loan value-this would be my guess ( with real credit )...approx $8,000 to $9,000....
    Good luck.
  • Thanks, rroyce10 --

    If indeed the car's value is closer to $6,000, why does the Edmunds method result in such a huge disparity?

    Of what use is the Edmunds number in preparing for the trip to the dealer?
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    The Edmunds info is a wonderful....'guidline'
    and I also use them quite a bit..... for the Retail end of it..... They know their products..and they do their job very well--- Now what that means to you is....you have decided to trade it in...at this point in time... The dealer or dealers, that you are going to try to do business with, are going to put in "wholesale money" in your trade..as all dealers do...some dealers are going to be a little fairer than others...."but"...and my thinking is...they will discount the new vehicle......And on paper, they will show you $8,000 or $9,000 ( ? ) for yours ...as long as they use Retail for theirs...no dealer in America
    is going to "put" Retail money in a trade...and
    and discount the new, and make 0 profit
    The best way to look at your potential purchase is like this----Edmunds will give you all the info you need on this "new" car...invoice,incentives,rebates etc. ...find a # that's fair to purchase it with (depends on the vehicle) and,.... there is big dicount's everywhere....when you arrive at that # ---minus the Real Value of your trade (it's going to be a wholesale # )....at that time...you have reached a "Difference Figure" ---theirs minus yours net--(.. plus taxes-fee's-and any pay-offs.. )
    Just remember... the only difference..that makes a difference---- "IS" the difference..... I hope this makes a little more sense -- post back ... I will be interested
  • ddeliseddelise Posts: 355
    Thanks so much for the information.

    When are we going to hear about your new venture??????
  • First,

    Let's look at the Value of the car and then we'll work on Galves vs Edmunds.

    Your car, if clean, and free of paintwork, and assuming it isnt some gross color combo like Purple, Orange or Brown, is worth, dead cash, about $5,500 to $6,000.

    The miles slaughter it.

    Now, as far as Loan goes, Loan Value on that car is about $10K book loan value (Or wholesale for one with 50-60K miles).

    I mean, that's what it is really worth. And I base that on: Black Book and Auction Data. I feel that the auction reports, IF one knows how to read them, are simply the most accurate way to determine a car's value.

    If Edmunds says that a car is worth $27,000 and all of them are selling at the auction for $23-24K, then that's the fair value for it, not $27K. Also in that if those cars are doing $30K at the sale, then $27K isnt fair either.

    Galves is also primarially used in the NYC Metro area, it's written by the Galves Brothers who are wholesalers. I have bought cars from Dan Galves in the past actually! Edmunds is a very valuable resource, however, the data that is super accurate and up to the minute costs money. If you wanted real-time stock quotes before the net, you had to sign up for a very expensive service. If you wanted yesterday's info it was in the 50c newspaper.

    Same thing with pricing. Edmunds can't afford to update all of their pricing weekly or hire hundreds of people to scour the auctions to report on values (How Black Book does it).

    They also dont charge $50 a month to use this site! :)

    Bill
  • Well,

    I almosty bought a dual franchise store but that deal fell apart today. You think buying a car is bad, try dealing with a dealership owner! But I have another lined up. But I will be able to say something within 60-90 days I think...

    Bill
  • Also,

    As far as loans go.. Most Banks will not loan money on a car with mileage that high.

    Some of the local banks here in Orlando simply wouldnt loan a dime on that car, Namely SunTrust, First Union, Bank of America, etc...

    Most credit unions will not either. Also, it's now a 5yr old car. Your best bet may be to tell your buyer to try a "blank check" type of site like peoplefirst.com or something.

    Bill
  • You in the car biz in Orlando too???

    Bill
    Formerly at Lexus of Orlando
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    17 years.....in Florida, Sold out 22 month's ago ( Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep...Buick/ Mitsu..Mazda/Kia..... Boat's are much more fun...!
  • >>auction reports...are simply the most accurate way to determine a car's value. <<

    Thanks, that helps a lot.

    Is the Edmunds representation of the dealer invoice likely to reflect what the dealer paid for a new Maxima?

    Last, (if multiple questions are permitted here) -- would "invoice" (per Edmunds) for a 2001 Max minus a high-range wholesale/auction value for the trade-in represent a good deal for the dealer? -- for the buyer?
  • mgamamgama Posts: 1
    Shopping for a new car and wondering about trade value of my 96 Q45T. 60,100 mi, Color - Cabernet, interior in good condition, exterior in average condition, some dings, nicks and scratches. No accidents or damage. Needs new tires. Tampa, FL.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    Well, the tires don't help...but that's ok.( a little tough in miles )..you are in the start-- of a brand new body style change for Infiniti --on all of the left-over 2000's/01 they have a $5,000 dealer cash incentive...to blow those puppies out....so you are kinda in a "downturn market" ... so to speak.....they are nice cars ..and I love them....but, I would have to guess you are looking at that -in and around- figuere of approx.......$11,000 maybe $12,000 "ish" remember...that's hard $$$ not what a dealer might "show" you.
    Happy hunting....
  • I'm not sure what the going rate is for Maximas. I'd try searching for a Maxima topic. Im sure there's one in the sedans conference.

    As far as the 96 Goes, I'd consider shopping it. A car like that, with high miles, especially in the northeast, may get some pretty low bids to be truthful. Still, it ought to be worth 5500-6K or thereabouts.

    Bill
  • Let's see..

    Based on your description, I'd peg the car closer to about $12,000 or so. This is a car free from paintwork, but with some dings and scratches but still presentable.

    The miles are OK, the color hurts a little. Im in Orlando, you're in Tampa, we're both in FL. In this state, Lighter, conservative colors tend to hold their value the best (Silver, White, etc).

    Hope this helps!

    Bill
  • OK - so my trade-in is worth about $6K in "real money"....

    How much is a new 2001 GLE worth?

    According to Edmunds --
    Invoice = $23,769;
    MSRP = $26,449;
    Destination Charge = $540;
    Dealer Hold Back = 3% of the Total Invoice.

    Dealers seem plenty eager to sell a new GLE at "invoice" --

    Is "invoice-minus-wholesale for the trade-in" the best I can expect, or are there some incentive programs available that might shrink the final number a bit?
  • As far as the deal goes.. on the Maxima I'm not sure if there's trunk money or rebates or anything on them (Trunk money is sort of like a rebate for the dealer) that you can dip into.

    However, If you're getting the car at invoice, and there isnt a rebate, I'd imagine that's pretty good. ALso, at that number, I doubt there is much room to give you an overallowance, so $6,000 is probably about the best you can do giving you a difference of $23,769 less $6,000 or $17,769.

    Bill
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    I'm, a little surprised.....You would hit the "Q" at $7,000...back of rough.
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