I have a 98 Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe (ETC) in very clean or good shape, 23,000 miles, shale or beige/grey color, clean, no dents/dings. I live in Delaware.
NADA Wholesale is $24,000 without adjusting for miles. KBB Trade-In with Good condition and adjusting for low miles is $24,700. Dealer offers me $22,000. WHY?
If $22,000 for me and what the others are experiencing are real world, why don't the guides reflect that?
The dealers want to quote what that model is selling for at the auction, even though auction cars are is lower condition with high miles. Only our love of new cars is letting the dealers get away with this. Selling ourelves is an option, but you never know how long it will take, epecially considering the current sale is always ready to end soon.
I have a beautiful '97 Subaru Legacy CT wagon. Has 49450 miles,red paint, washed weekly and clean. Has automatic transmission, sunroof, am/am/cassette/cd player, 6speakers,tilt,cruise,well maintained, oil/filter changed every 3,000 miles,all filters recently changed, new wiper blades, Excellent condition. What should I ask to trade on 2001 Toyota Avalon XLS?
I have the prospect of purchasing a vehicle that is only a year old but has been used as a dealer courtesy/shuttle vehicle. The miles on this vehicle are very high - 85,000 miles! It has been driven from a rural community to the airport 75 miles away twice a day.
My problem is that none of the pricing services handle vehicles with this amount of mileage in a fair manner. The NADA site doesn't yet have pricing information for 2000 Chrysler Town & Country vehicles. The Kelly Blue Book site doesn't adjust for mileage beyond 60,000 miles. Edmunds Used Vehicle Appraiser doesn't adjust for mileage after about 35,000 miles.
With the BB and TV services, prices appear to be the same for all mileage over the cutoff. In my case the dealer has priced the vehicle based on BB value as if the vehicle only had 60,000 miles on it - 25,000 less than it has.
I'm looking for some insights as to how the mileage offset is calculated to extrapolate what the real value of the vehicle should be.
I've made calculations on my own by taking the offset for a range of miles and prices that are disclosed on the BB site and determining a fixed offset per mile. This sets the value of the vehicle much more closely to where I think it should be.
Bill, Since you sell Lexus vehicles, I'll bet you are familiar with Toyotas! I want a 2001 Camry V6. I have priced them at four dealers in the area. The best price I have been quoted is $23,500 including a $500 rebate from Gulf States. The car has cloth, sunroof, sunroof wind deflector, color-keyed mudguards, Value Package #3 (JBL sound, keyless, pwr. driver's seat, floor mats), trunk mat, night vision mirror with compass, center console armrest, and Extramile aluminum wheel upgrade. (I'm looking at a picture of the sticker.) They gave me what they said is a copy of the invoice, which shows an invoice price of $23,637. However, two Internet sources I checked show the invoice at just over $23,000. Is their price of $23,500 good or not? Also, they offered me $2100 for my 1993 Dodge Shadow ES with 67,000 miles without even looking at it. Good offer? Thanks for your help!
I have a 1999 silver Grand Prix GTP Sedan with all the options . It has 50,000 miles on it. I have checked a couple places and thought I had a good idea of its worth until I was offered $9995 for it at a dealer in town. This guy was really trying to get to me, or my value is way off. Please tell me your thoughts. My car is in really good condition and has never been wrecked. I am looking to get a 2001 GTP.
thanks for the input on my 98 Monte Carlo. That's about the price range I ws thinking but I guess things are slow right now. Let me ask you another question:
Although the car has NO body or mech. damage now, It was hit lightly on the rear bumper and also left front fender/wheel. About a year ago. Lots of parts were replaced, all genuine GM by a dealer body shop, including the entire rear bumper and front fender/wheel/suspension assembly. Possibly a trained pro could tell that it's not all factory paint, but I never had a problem since. There was no structural/frame/powertrain damage.
1. Does this prior damage have an impact on resale value and why? 2. How would a private buyer who may not be saavy know this? 3. What would happen if I did not disclose this? 4. How much would you downgrade this car with a history like this?
Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions! I have a 1999 Honda Civic EX sedan with automatic and Honda alloy wheels. The car has 50,000 miles and is in excellent condition - no scratches, dents or dings. I wash it once a week (even in the winter) and wax it three times a year. The color is light metallic blue/green. How much is it worth on trade? I've been able to get good trade-ins on my previous Civics, but I've only ever traded for another Honda. For my next car, I'm thinking of a Ford Mustang GT coupe or Camaro Z-28 coupe. Will a Ford or Chevy dealer still view a Honda Civic as a desireable trade-in? Or am I still likely to get a better deal at a Honda dealer? Also, how do three-year-old Mustang GT coupes and Camaro Z-28 coupes fare at trade-in time? Do they depreciate more or less than the average car? Thank you for information.
If I were you I'd pay the mileage. And yes, if you do decide not to pay they can refer you to a collection agency.
Look at it this way: You used more of the car, right? So it is fair for you to pay for that useage. I'd bet that the Bank will accept payments on the overage. That car is worth about $9,000 or so wholesale because of the miles. So, you could comparte this to your car's residual value, maybe it'd be cheaper to try and sell it or trade it if the difference is less, but I highly doubt it.
So, yes, it will show up on a credit report, but the dealer has NO control over this. Its' between you and the leasing company.
Brentwood Volvo was a store I used to work at in St Louis, and I just kept the name If it helps, they are actually one of the best dealerships I've ever seen.
Yeah, the older Volvos could be tricky, but we have an S80 T6 in the family and it's been great tho! The LS430 is an absoltely amazing car, and even though its' not cheap and I doubt any dealers are doing any noticeable discounts on them, the car is a heck of a bargain!
As far as the net guides... well.. you get what you pay for I suppose. Theyre a guide, but they simply canot afford to be as accurate as Black Book or Manheim auction data. It's a cost factor. Edmunds is, however, from what I know, working evry hard to become accurate. as a rule, most common cars are worth reasonably close to KBB "fair" if in decent shape with avg miles.
As far as most of the option "adds" in the guides... In reality they add little to the values of a car. Stuff like Traction, Moonroof, Leather, etc do. But Premium Sound systems, Roof Racks, Pinstripes, etc add very little.
And yes, Hondas have good resale, Most Toyotas do well, and most Chrysler products do poorly.
For the first part: A car is worth what it is worth. And, in my opinion, that is whatever it will roughly sell for at a local auction or to a wholesaler. Regardless of what an independent guide may say. And I don't think its' wholesaling for a profit. The average retail profit on a used car is far far far higher than a wholesale profit. In fact, for most dealers, wholesale profit is more like wholesale loss. Most dealers have a certain amount of wholesale loss on aged inventory, that's why its' very important for us to take cars in at the right number. Too low and we dont make the deal on the new car, too high and whatever we made on the new car is lost on wholesale loss if we don't retail the trade-in.
And I doubt it's to try and convert people to leasing. Even then we have to tell you what your trade is worth!
Here's an example I saw happen: A new car was sold to a customer at $500 over invoice. It had been in stock 75 days so whatever holdback money there was was gone. It was probably a gross profit and a net break even at best. However, the customer traded in a Ford Explorer just before the Firestone scandal hit. It sat and rotted on the lot (Even though it had a new set of Goodyears on it!) and, after 70 days on the lot, the Explorer went to the auction (It was a 99 Eddie Bauer with 20Kish miles if I remember) where the dealer lost $1,500 or so on it. At that point, they were virtually saleproof and the dealer was lucky that's all they lost!
So, it's not that we're trying to steal a trade, but we have to take them in at market. Sometimes I have been able to offer customers a lot more than their car books for simply because that's market at the time.
Now, on to your Caddy. Cadillacs have a problem with resale value. In fact, they frequently trade at auction for less than book or for low book. For a Shale 1998 ETC.. $22K is actually a fair number. That's about what that car would bring at a wholesale auction. I'd peg that as an "average book" car without even opening a Black Book. In fact, Average Book right now on your car in the Florida Book (Where Caddies bring the most money) is $21,900. If it were Pearl White, perhaps a little more, but that is a fair number.
Why isn't really accurate data available on the web? Simple! Money. Black Book data is very very accurate, but here's how they get it:
1) Weekly Books. And it costs $89 a year to subscribe.
2) Here's where their info comes from: Often, when I'm at an auction, I see a bunch of guys in Black Book uniforms writing little slips of paper and stuffing them into boxes. There's your source. The auctions themselves. But this costs a lot of money to collect. And there's no advantage in giving this data away when we have to pay for it. The typical dealer Spends $500 or so a year on Black Books and $600 a year or more for Auction reports. Multiply that by all the dealers out there... it adds up.
And as far as what cars are at the auction, well, here's some of the cars I've personally bought at auction recently:
1998 Jaguar XJ8 Excellent, Silver/Oatmeal Leather. No Paintwork 29K miles 1998 Jaguar XJR Excellent, Black/Black No Paintwork, 33K miles 1999 BMW 540i Sport 6-Speed. Silver/Dove Grey, Perfect, 19K miles
If it's clean and free of paintwork, I'd say that your car ought to be worth about $11,000-11,500 on trade. Shoot for "average book" which is about $11,500-12K and you're getting the right number on it.
Ummm, Don't buy it. You simply cannot buy it cheap enough!
And it will never be worth anything. Even if it was a LOADED Limited, I'd only peg its' retail value at about $14,000 or so. Id say it's wholesale value is half of the average for a Limited (If it even is a Limited) or about $11,000.
Sounds like you actually got a very very good deal.
I'm guessing that this is about $360 over invoice, which you certainly can't complain about.
Your trade's value is also very strong for that car. I think its' a $1,500 car myself.
Their invoice may be higher than what's on the net because of advertising fees. These are assessed on most Toyotas sold in America. If you are looking at the invoice, Look for "TDA". That ought to be about 1.5% or so of Base MSRP or about $300 or so. You may also see a fee called "MAF" and it has to do with the distributor's floorplanning or prep or some garbage like that. It is legit, but I forget exactly what it is. Again, we get our cars from Lexus, not Southeast Toyota (Gulf States Toyota is another independent distributor).
$9,995 is too low. I'd say that the car, even though it has high miles, ought to still bring at least $11,500-12K or so.
The car is worth, on trade, less than low book because of the high miles, but not that low.
Unfortunately, Pontiacs do not have strong resale values as a rule. You'd be better off in Leasing the car for 2 years with a 25K mile a year Lease, especially since GM Generally has very strong lease subsidy programs on these cars.
It would be a lot cheaper for you than buying and trading every 2 years!
>1. Does this prior damage have an impact on resale value and why?
Resale I'm not so sure... Trade is sure would. I'd peg the car about $1,500-1,000 under what I'd otherwise appraise it at because of this. And to answer the why part, well, if you were looking at two cars and one had been wrecked, and one hadn't, which one would YOU want?.........
>2. How would a private buyer who may not be saavy know this?
They may very well not be able to tell. I can, but of course, I do this for a living. I suppose it depends on how much they know.
>3. What would happen if I did not disclose this?
Perhaps you could get sued, it'd depend on your state's laws I suppose.
>4. How much would you downgrade this car with a history like this?
Quite a bit. That's actually substantial damage.
Glad to help as always. And yes, it is just a slow time of year
I'd say that The Honda ought to be worth about $8,500 due to the high miles. Still, Civics are good merchandise and the dealer ought to be interested. But the high miles hurt it quite a bit.
And, as a forwarning.. Mustangs and Camaros do not have such great resale value. Especially if they have high miles (And it looks like you drive a lot). Try and find a low mile 2000 used car. You ought to be able to find one for a LOT less than a 2001.
Thanks for the advice, bill. You seem to be very knowledgeable on pricing/selling.
One of the cars i was considering buying if I ever sell the Monte is an Olds Alero coupe, loaded with V6/sunroof/etc. Now, considering that Olds is phasing out, what do you think this would do to the resale/trade value 5 years out?
I know that a lot of Alero/Grand Ams are sold to Rental Comapanies so they're flooding the market so that probably keeps the value down as well. But would I really lose more money owning an Alero, after Olds stops selling cars?
I was also considering a Chevy Camaro V6. Now, these don't end up in rental lots as much but even this model is being discontinued after 2002.
Both these cars that I've priced are within $300 of each other, so I guess the question is which one will bring me more at the end of my ownership. The used Car guides put the value of a current 3-year old Camaro higher than a 3-year old Alero so I'm thinking the Camaro would be a better investment. What do you think?
By the way, do you sell Olds and/or Chevy at your dealership now?
I am looking to trade a 99 ML320 with 19,000. Its got the M1 package, bose, CD changer, azure blue. Its in great condition. Just needs a bath. In doing internet research, there was a huge discrepancy between Edmunds TMV (around $25,500) and Kellys Blue Book(just under $30,000). What seems reasonable? I plan on trading for a new MB wagon. What a wonderful board you ave going
Bill, If you are still up to helping "helpless" people, I would appreciate your insight.
I have a 1995 MB C280 with every option available including a dealer installed 6 CD changer in the trunk. Car has 113,000 miles - mainly highway. Good shape - no accidents, a couple of minor dings, engine and electronics still excellent. Will be trading in to a dealer. Color is dark green and interior is leather parchment. So, what should I expect?
I have been debating if I should trade my high mileage 2000 toyota avalon(36000 miles)or drive it another year at which time it would have 75 to 80000 miles. I personally would not consider buying a two year old car with 80000 miles except at a bargain basement price. Any thoughts on this?
Listen to what I keep hammering on here! DO NOT BUY MOST AMERICAN CARS NEW! They have TERRIBLE resale! Aleros and Camaros too, but the Camaro will do better.
Find a 2000 Camaro or Alero with low miles and buy that. I'm serious! You ought to be able to buy an Alero that listed at $17,000 for $13,000 as a year-old used car.
A region might help a little, but I think that one with the M1 (Leather, Moonroof, CD right?) Pkg without paintwork in clean condition ought to be worth about $28-29K on trade. That seems to be market on them. Perhaps closer to $28K as Blue is not a very common/popular color (even though I personally like it!)
Well, if your car is clean, and runs well, I'd say that about $9-10K is fair wholesale for it. The miles, as we know, slaughter the car's value. But then, look at it this way, you used twice as much car as someone who does 10K a year, right?
Hope this helps.. Let me know what kind of bids you get!
Buy a Leftover, current model-year car in the laste fall/early winter. I.E. Last month or now.
Then, when you trade it after a year or so, you're then trading a two year old car with an average of 15-20K a year on it. NOT a High Mile one-year old car.
A 1999 with 36K on it is worth more than a 1999 with 70K on it right now. And the 36K or so mile 1999 will be bid a little low, but nor thousands and thousands below "rough book" like a 70K mile 99 would be worth right now.
Thanks for the info on the ML - we are in Atlanta, Georgia if that changes anything. I love the blue myself - and as Atlanta is the home of the taupe suburban, Grand Cherokee etc... it sort of stands out (I'm not sure if thats good or bad!!).
"Listen to what I keep hammering on here! DO NOT BUY MOST AMERICAN CARS NEW! They have TERRIBLE resale!" I would say: "DO NOT BUY JAPANESE CARS USED. The resale is so high you are smarter to buy a new one where no one else could abuse it."
I'd be leery of most used Camrys and Accords. I believe most people who buy them view them as 4-wheeled appliances and treat them as such. I live near the two largest Honda and Toyota dealers in the SE (Gwinnett Place Honda and Atlanta Toyota) so those makes of cars blanket suburban Atlanta. And most of them I see are not well cared for; dirty, dull paint, worn tires, things that show the owners don't care. I know many dealers have great detailers that can transform a car, but that wouldn't make me feel that the car had been cared for from Day One.
I'd buy a car like that new and baby it. Don't trade but sell it yourself as a rolling creampuff complete with full service history.
I just bought a 2001 Accord EXL Coupe and traded-in my 1998 Ford Contour SE Sport. Determining a fair price on a new car is easy, but valuing a trade is difficult at best.
My Contour had 30K and wasn't a stripper: V6, leather, aftermarket CD and speakers, moonroof, alloys, spoiler, fog lamps, newer tires (all matching). But in grand American Car fashion, it was a bit "sloppy". The car featured a variety of squeaks and rattles, body integrity was subpar, the heater fan wouldn't work some times and it had a dent in the front bumper. Ford also recalled the car 7 times for defects (no more Fords for me!). I maintained the car well and kept it clean and attractive, but drove it very hard. It also was a 5-speed manual. This is either the kiss of death for an already unloved domestic sedan, but then again my V6 Contour is recognized as a great driver's car, so the tranny choice is appropriate to the enthusiast.
Using Edmunds and KBB, I determined my car was worth between $7600-$9200 (depending on condition). Having these figures chisseled into my brain, I was surprised to find out how little dealers would offer for my car.
One of the dealers started talking straight with me and I actually believe he wasn't lying to me. He said the guide books on the Internet are immaterial. What matters is how much the car goes for at an auction. They (a Honda dealer) had no use for an unpopular domestic sedan, so they'd have to auction it off. They had some auction book (Garrolls? Garretts?) that listed the going market rates for used cars at auctions over the last two weeks. In this book, my Contour had a base wholesale value of $5500, plus options. With the extra options, the "fair auction price" was around $6800.
I was a little perturbed. I paid $16K for the Contour and that was after $1550 in Citibank rebates and $400 college grad. Where did all the value go? I realize you do get killed on depreciation with a domestic (at least I had 0.9% financing on the Contour).
Hearing this trade-in offer, I got up and said "well, if my car is only worth $6800, then it is in my financial interests to keep the car. It's worth more to me than $6800. I want $8000 for my car. If I can't get that, I might as well wait a few more months to buy a new car because my Contour can't depreciate much more!" I really wanted to unload the Contour, but this seemed like the right move to make. I left the showroom, somewhat disappointed, but thinking that I needed to stick to my guns.
The next day, the dealer called me up at work and offered me $8000 for my Contour. I accepted it and bought the Accord.
I'm certain that they will lose money on the Contour, but then again, I paid $800 over invoice on the Accord and I'm told I probably could have gotten very close to invoice. Plus and minus considered, I think the net effective price was fair overall.
Since my Accord is loaded, impeccably built for this price point and is a desirable Silver/Charcoal leather combination, I'll get a much more enthusiastic dealer response for my trade next time around. I am very motivated to keep my Accord in superlative condition so I can demand - and reasonably expect - top dollar for it. I'm back with the Japanese and I think that's where I am going to stay.
Yup, Not a bad way to go for most of them. Many are very strong such as Toyota SUVs, Lexus, Hondas, etc.. Although some of them (Nissan Pickups, Infinitis, most Mitsubishis, etc) are a bit weak.
So it depends on the car. At one point Tahoes and Suburbans did quite well, now I;m not too sure about em.
That's also true of a lot of German Luxury cars, they hold their value so well (Look at 1yr old Boxsters, market on them is close to original MSRP) that its' silly to buy used.
Actually, from what I am seeing (They were probably looking at Galves and $50 says you're in the northeast.. probably the NYC metro area/NJ) you did buy that Accord at around invoice.
That Contour was simply not worth $8,000. Market on it is $7,000-$7,500. It was low-mile, but even so, those are very weak cars. Carleton and Bret, see my point? I'd guess that they overallowed around $500-$800 on the Honda and that they wholesaled the Contour for about $7K or so.
Again, there's a lot of good info on the net, but like they said, a car is simply worth whatever the market will bear for it. And, unfortunately in the case of the Contours, it's pretty weak..
It's a shame that the Contour has such a weak trade-in value (especially since I just traded in my '98 SE V6 model for about $500 less than I wanted). I bought mine new in November '97 and other than the aforementioned recalls, it was a really good car (no, really!). I never had any warranty work performed in my 3+ years of ownership and incurred no expenses other than routine maintenance. I think the Contour was one of Ford's better offerings of late (good styling IMO, great handling, ample power - overall a fun car to drive) but for some reason never found a niche with the American car-buying public (although the Mondeo seemed ubiquitous while in Germany). I was rather perturbed at what the dealers wanted to give me on trade but felt OK about the outcome with the dealer that I finally ended up doing business with (a Ford dealer - they were willing to give me much more than other makes' dealers and other area Ford dealers as well). But even then it was about $800 - $1000 less than Edmunds trade-in value. I actually would have never traded it off if my wife hadn't gotten new SUV fever (gotta keep her happy)...
Thanks very much in advance for this *great* information...
I've got three vehicles I'd like you to provide values on, if you would: my current car, and the two I'm deciding between buying.
My car: 1992 Acura Integra GSR 105K, manual, AC, CD green ext, gray cloth int Has had past paint work, and shows typical 9-yr old bumps and bruises, but otherwise mechanically solid and reliable.
New Option #1: 1999 BMW 328i Sedan 44K, manual, sport pkg, roof, CD, pwr htd seats Silver ext, black leather int Assume clean history
New Option #2: 2000 Audi S4 Sedan 18K, manual, loaded except nav & phone Also silver w/ black leather and clean history
What should I hope to get for my Integra, selling privately, and what is fair to pay for the BMW and the Audi to private sellers?
Is there one reason that stands out as to why, as a whole, domestics are so low on resale values? Quality? Number of vehicles?
Bill, as you've said and as I can see reading these posts, lots of people are getting hammered on values with their GMs, Fords, and Chryslers. Not all american-built cars compare poorly with their foreign counterparts though. And foreigns are usually more expensive. THere must be something about auto sales in this country that works against the owners.
Looked at a 98 SVT 29.5K on the clock. Considering trading my 99 SE. SVT is silver, blue leather interior, both no-cost options CD and moon roof, (no spoiler thank God), but missing the factory wheels. It has some after market brand wheel instead. (However, certainly not the Borbets I have on my unit.)
My potential trade: 99 DE V6, ATX, DC, foggies, spoiler, keyless entry, factory alloys (not my Borbets), 14K miles, immaculate, and after I procured a new beater/commuter car driven on weekends only.
Car was on website, but a call to the dealer indicates car was sold.
However...
Sales pro tells me of a 99 SE V6 stick, but not much more. Stop by after work and that car is ugly. It is a lease return and you can tell the owner just didn't care.
Anyway, I leave my business card and drive off. Call the wife committee to let her know what I'm doing and that I'm on the way home. Dinner is cooking.
Sales pro calls me back and says he wants to talk numbers on the SVT, buyer hasn't closed in about two weeks (12/27/00). I tell him that I can't come back now as I've just "phoned home," but I'll be back lunchtime Tuesday unless some service call ambushes me.
So, what range of deal should I expect?
My car should require no reconditioning and is still under factory warranty. This is the dealership I purchased the potential trade from, so I'm a repeat buyer. However, my original sales rep has "moved on."
Of course all is contingent on the condition of the SVT. Since it was a sold unit, the saleman with the "sale" is holding the keys so no one else messes up the car. There is a rub mark on the passenger side that may be buffed out. (Why hasn't this already happened?)
I'm really looking for a range of differences since I'd like to trade. We all know the resale is horrible on the car, but since I'm trading like models the depreciation should be about as bad on both units, so that should somewhat wash. I think I have a good case to either beat up the trade offer on my car or beat down the price of the SVT.
The Contour is a cult car. You love it or hate it. There is no in-between. I find this trade arrangement very interesting.
You could basically approach it like this. The dealer needs a profit on the SVT sale and a profit on your trade. The retail value between your Contour and the SVT is not much since the SVT is a year older, double the miles and has little warranty remaining. I'd almost say they should be worth nearly the same (though the dealer won't agree, of course).
You give him $1000 gross for the SVT and $1500 gross for your trade. That's $2500. So if you have a loan, take a new one out with another $2500 on top of it and you've got an SVT. I wouldn't do the typical "SVT is $14,995 and your trade is worth $10000. That's $5000 plus your loan balance" route. Figure how much more a 98 SVT would be worth at retail over a 99 SE (if anything), add some gross revenue to cover the dealer's expenses and fair profit margin.
My figures are slightly hypothetical, so you may need to adjust them, but I like the strategy, considering you are buying a like car.
I have narrowed my search down to t20 cars. Just wondering how your sources peg the prices on each. Both in beautiful NJ
1) 1998 BMW 323ic convertible. Blue/gray leather, 5 speed, 37K, premium package (power top), heated seats, HK stereo. BMW certified (from a dealer), $27,000
2) 1998 BMW 528i. Green/tan leather, premium package, heated seats, roof, 34K, 5 speed. Not a certified car (from a local used car dealer). Clean, no bodywork. $28,500
If I get the convert, I'll probably trade up to a sedan in summer 2002. If I get the 528, I'll keep it for a lot longer, so depreciation /resale is more of an issue for the 323.
Does either of these jump out at you as a particular bargain?
As always, thanks for the service, and I hope you didn't freeze up when it hit 29 the other day in Orlando.
Please tell me what I did wrong today. I have a 97 Honda Prelude with 39000 miles (STD not SH). It is in excellent condition all over and I think I should be able to trade it for 14000. I want to buy a 2001 Accord EX-V6. Here's my math:
They told me "No - 11400 trade and 24100 OTD - 12700 TOTAL!"
We were so far off that I didn't even counter, I thought I made a fair offer. Can you tell me what I should expect to pay for the Accord and get for my Prelude?
About half way thru reading this board, girl friend wants late model economy car, trying for best value, keep 2-4+ years. Any advice? How do I figure what is a fair price? What about using alg residual as rough guide, how much over trade in should I pay? Put on lots of miles and winter is hard on cars here. Considering 98 protege es 5spd no options 64k miles in minnesota, sand color. This car was recently available new 2000 with rebate for about 13400 plus tax and license.
Actually its probably not new to you, but I have not seen this issue discussed.
I am in the market for a Wrangler. For a variety of reasons a 2000 leftover seems to make sense vs. a 2001. I have found a new 2000 on my local dealer's lot that would fit the bill. They have it priced about $500 below invoice.
My question is that since a 2001 can easily be had for $200 over invoice there is only a $700 spread here. How do you value a new leftover. The difference in depreciation has to be more than $700. What is a fair markdown?
The reason I want to go with a 2000 is that I typically drive 18,000 to 20,000 miles a year. Yes, in a Wrangler!
The car buying process will wear you down! Perhaps someone can help. Im looking at 3 types of vehicles. 1997 Escorts, Corollas and Tercels. Using a scale of "average" What would be a fair price to pay to a private seller for each of these? Considering the dealer is going to give them a much lower price, is it worth splitting the difference between trade-in and private sale price? Which of the price guides is the most accurate? Thanks
The ECHO is a very high mileage, comfortable, good performing economy car and based on Toyota reliability, will retain a high percentage of value when sold. Some find the styling not very attractive...where others think it is the most beautiful vehicle now made because of its great synergy of performance, comfort and value. The key to buying an ECHO is to not get carried away with options. The basic ECHO with A/C, AT, PS is a steal but as with many Toyotas, some of the options are on the pricey side.
Comments
I live in Delaware.
NADA Wholesale is $24,000 without adjusting for miles. KBB Trade-In with Good condition and adjusting for low miles is $24,700. Dealer offers me $22,000. WHY?
If $22,000 for me and what the others are experiencing are real world, why don't the guides reflect that?
The dealers want to quote what that model is selling for at the auction, even though auction cars are is lower condition with high miles. Only our love of new cars is letting the dealers get away with this. Selling ourelves is an option, but you never know how long it will take, epecially considering the current sale is always ready to end soon.
I got a little over anxious in buying vehicles last year and now I need some relief. I was wondering what you thought of my vehicles.
2001 Honda Accord EX-V6 Leather, Moonroof 6-Disc CD Changer, White in color with 4,200 miles.
2000 GMC Sierra SLE Z71 Extended Cab, 5.3 Liter, 3.73 Gears, CD, Light Pewter Color, Graphite cloth interior, 1500 miles.
My problem is that none of the pricing services handle vehicles with this amount of mileage in a fair manner. The NADA site doesn't yet have pricing information for 2000 Chrysler Town & Country vehicles. The Kelly Blue Book site doesn't adjust for mileage beyond 60,000 miles. Edmunds Used Vehicle Appraiser doesn't adjust for mileage after about 35,000 miles.
With the BB and TV services, prices appear to be the same for all mileage over the cutoff. In my case the dealer has priced the vehicle based on BB value as if the vehicle only had 60,000 miles on it - 25,000 less than it has.
I'm looking for some insights as to how the mileage offset is calculated to extrapolate what the real value of the vehicle should be.
I've made calculations on my own by taking the offset for a range of miles and prices that are disclosed on the BB site and determining a fixed offset per mile. This sets the value of the vehicle much more closely to where I think it should be.
Any insights you have are appreciated.
Since you sell Lexus vehicles, I'll bet you are familiar with Toyotas! I want a 2001 Camry V6. I have priced them at four dealers in the area. The best price I have been quoted is $23,500 including a $500 rebate from Gulf States. The car has cloth, sunroof, sunroof wind deflector, color-keyed mudguards, Value Package #3 (JBL sound, keyless, pwr. driver's seat, floor mats), trunk mat, night vision mirror with compass, center console armrest, and Extramile aluminum wheel upgrade. (I'm looking at a picture of the sticker.) They gave me what they said is a copy of the invoice, which shows an invoice price of $23,637. However, two Internet sources I checked show the invoice at just over $23,000. Is their price of $23,500 good or not? Also, they offered me $2100 for my 1993 Dodge Shadow ES with 67,000 miles without even looking at it. Good offer?
Thanks for your help!
Joe
thanks for the input on my 98 Monte Carlo. That's about the price range I ws thinking but I guess things are slow right now. Let me ask you another question:
Although the car has NO body or mech. damage now, It was hit lightly on the rear bumper and also left front fender/wheel. About a year ago. Lots of parts were replaced, all genuine GM by a dealer body shop, including the entire rear bumper and front fender/wheel/suspension assembly. Possibly a trained pro could tell that it's not all factory paint, but I never had a problem since. There was no structural/frame/powertrain damage.
1. Does this prior damage have an impact on resale value and why?
2. How would a private buyer who may not be saavy know this?
3. What would happen if I did not disclose this?
4. How much would you downgrade this car with a history like this?
thanks!
Bruce
Umm...
www.donateacar.com or something!
At least its' served you well I hope!
Bill
If I were you I'd pay the mileage. And yes, if you do decide not to pay they can refer you to a collection agency.
Look at it this way: You used more of the car, right? So it is fair for you to pay for that useage. I'd bet that the Bank will accept payments on the overage. That car is worth about $9,000 or so wholesale because of the miles. So, you could comparte this to your car's residual value, maybe it'd be cheaper to try and sell it or trade it if the difference is less, but I highly doubt it.
So, yes, it will show up on a credit report, but the dealer has NO control over this. Its' between you and the leasing company.
Bill
Brentwood Volvo was a store I used to work at in St Louis, and I just kept the name
Yeah, the older Volvos could be tricky, but we have an S80 T6 in the family and it's been great tho! The LS430 is an absoltely amazing car, and even though its' not cheap and I doubt any dealers are doing any noticeable discounts on them, the car is a heck of a bargain!
As far as the net guides... well.. you get what you pay for I suppose. Theyre a guide, but they simply canot afford to be as accurate as Black Book or Manheim auction data. It's a cost factor. Edmunds is, however, from what I know, working evry hard to become accurate. as a rule, most common cars are worth reasonably close to KBB "fair" if in decent shape with avg miles.
As far as most of the option "adds" in the guides... In reality they add little to the values of a car. Stuff like Traction, Moonroof, Leather, etc do. But Premium Sound systems, Roof Racks, Pinstripes, etc add very little.
And yes, Hondas have good resale, Most Toyotas do well, and most Chrysler products do poorly.
Bill
For the first part: A car is worth what it is worth. And, in my opinion, that is whatever it will roughly sell for at a local auction or to a wholesaler. Regardless of what an independent guide may say. And I don't think its' wholesaling for a profit. The average retail profit on a used car is far far far higher than a wholesale profit. In fact, for most dealers, wholesale profit is more like wholesale loss. Most dealers have a certain amount of wholesale loss on aged inventory, that's why its' very important for us to take cars in at the right number. Too low and we dont make the deal on the new car, too high and whatever we made on the new car is lost on wholesale loss if we don't retail the trade-in.
And I doubt it's to try and convert people to leasing. Even then we have to tell you what your trade is worth!
Here's an example I saw happen: A new car was sold to a customer at $500 over invoice. It had been in stock 75 days so whatever holdback money there was was gone. It was probably a gross profit and a net break even at best. However, the customer traded in a Ford Explorer just before the Firestone scandal hit. It sat and rotted on the lot (Even though it had a new set of Goodyears on it!) and, after 70 days on the lot, the Explorer went to the auction (It was a 99 Eddie Bauer with 20Kish miles if I remember) where the dealer lost $1,500 or so on it. At that point, they were virtually saleproof and the dealer was lucky that's all they lost!
So, it's not that we're trying to steal a trade, but we have to take them in at market. Sometimes I have been able to offer customers a lot more than their car books for simply because that's market at the time.
Now, on to your Caddy. Cadillacs have a problem with resale value. In fact, they frequently trade at auction for less than book or for low book. For a Shale 1998 ETC.. $22K is actually a fair number. That's about what that car would bring at a wholesale auction. I'd peg that as an "average book" car without even opening a Black Book. In fact, Average Book right now on your car in the Florida Book (Where Caddies bring the most money) is $21,900. If it were Pearl White, perhaps a little more, but that is a fair number.
Why isn't really accurate data available on the web? Simple! Money. Black Book data is very very accurate, but here's how they get it:
1) Weekly Books. And it costs $89 a year to subscribe.
2) Here's where their info comes from: Often, when I'm at an auction, I see a bunch of guys in Black Book uniforms writing little slips of paper and stuffing them into boxes. There's your source. The auctions themselves. But this costs a lot of money to collect. And there's no advantage in giving this data away when we have to pay for it. The typical dealer Spends $500 or so a year on Black Books and $600 a year or more for Auction reports. Multiply that by all the dealers out there... it adds up.
And as far as what cars are at the auction, well, here's some of the cars I've personally bought at auction recently:
1998 Jaguar XJ8 Excellent, Silver/Oatmeal Leather. No Paintwork 29K miles
1998 Jaguar XJR Excellent, Black/Black No Paintwork, 33K miles
1999 BMW 540i Sport 6-Speed. Silver/Dove Grey, Perfect, 19K miles
etc.....
Hope this helps!
Bill
Sounds to me like you bought a couple of cars with good resale in good colors. Now don't wreck em!
Both the Honda and the Truck ought to hold very strong resale.
Bill
If it's clean and free of paintwork, I'd say that your car ought to be worth about $11,000-11,500 on trade. Shoot for "average book" which is about $11,500-12K and you're getting the right number on it.
Hope this helps!
Bill
85,000 Miles??????? On a 2000? OY!
Ummm, Don't buy it. You simply cannot buy it cheap enough!
And it will never be worth anything. Even if it was a LOADED Limited, I'd only peg its' retail value at about $14,000 or so. Id say it's wholesale value is half of the average for a Limited (If it even is a Limited) or about $11,000.
Run don't walk!
Bill
I'm guessing that this is about $360 over invoice, which you certainly can't complain about.
Your trade's value is also very strong for that car. I think its' a $1,500 car myself.
Their invoice may be higher than what's on the net because of advertising fees. These are assessed on most Toyotas sold in America. If you are looking at the invoice, Look for "TDA". That ought to be about 1.5% or so of Base MSRP or about $300 or so. You may also see a fee called "MAF" and it has to do with the distributor's floorplanning or prep or some garbage like that. It is legit, but I forget exactly what it is. Again, we get our cars from Lexus, not Southeast Toyota (Gulf States Toyota is another independent distributor).
So, from the looks of it, I'd pull the trigger!
Bill
The car is worth, on trade, less than low book because of the high miles, but not that low.
Unfortunately, Pontiacs do not have strong resale values as a rule. You'd be better off in Leasing the car for 2 years with a 25K mile a year Lease, especially since GM Generally has very strong lease subsidy programs on these cars.
It would be a lot cheaper for you than buying and trading every 2 years!
Hope this helps!
Bill
Let's see if I can help.
>1. Does this prior damage have an impact on resale value and why?
Resale I'm not so sure... Trade is sure would. I'd peg the car about $1,500-1,000 under
what I'd otherwise appraise it at because of this. And to answer the why part, well, if
you were looking at two cars and one had been wrecked, and one hadn't, which one
would YOU want?.........
>2. How would a private buyer who may not be saavy know this?
They may very well not be able to tell. I can, but of course, I do this for a living.
I suppose it depends on how much they know.
>3. What would happen if I did not disclose this?
Perhaps you could get sued, it'd depend on your state's laws I suppose.
>4. How much would you downgrade this car with a history like this?
Quite a bit. That's actually substantial damage.
Glad to help as always. And yes, it is just a slow time of year
Bill
I'd say that The Honda ought to be worth about $8,500 due to the high miles. Still, Civics are good merchandise and the dealer ought to be interested. But the high miles hurt it quite a bit.
And, as a forwarning.. Mustangs and Camaros do not have such great resale value. Especially if they have high miles (And it looks like you drive a lot). Try and find a low mile 2000 used car. You ought to be able to find one for a LOT less than a 2001.
Bill
One of the cars i was considering buying if I ever sell the Monte is an Olds Alero coupe, loaded with V6/sunroof/etc. Now, considering that Olds is phasing out, what do you think this would do to the resale/trade value 5 years out?
I know that a lot of Alero/Grand Ams are sold to Rental Comapanies so they're flooding the market so that probably keeps the value down as well. But would I really lose more money owning an Alero, after Olds stops selling cars?
I was also considering a Chevy Camaro V6. Now, these don't end up in rental lots as much but even this model is being discontinued after 2002.
Both these cars that I've priced are within $300 of each other, so I guess the question is which one will bring me more at the end of my ownership.
The used Car guides put the value of a current 3-year old Camaro higher than a 3-year old Alero so I'm thinking the Camaro would be a better investment. What do you think?
By the way, do you sell Olds and/or Chevy at your dealership now?
I have a 1995 MB C280 with every option available including a dealer installed 6 CD changer in the trunk. Car has 113,000 miles - mainly highway. Good shape - no accidents, a couple of minor dings, engine and electronics still excellent. Will be trading in to a dealer. Color is dark green and interior is leather parchment. So, what should I expect?
Listen to what I keep hammering on here! DO NOT BUY MOST AMERICAN CARS NEW! They have TERRIBLE resale! Aleros and Camaros too, but the Camaro will do better.
Find a 2000 Camaro or Alero with low miles and buy that. I'm serious! You ought to be able to buy an Alero that listed at $17,000 for $13,000 as a year-old used car.
Bill
A region might help a little, but I think that one with the M1 (Leather, Moonroof, CD right?) Pkg without paintwork in clean condition ought to be worth about $28-29K on trade. That seems to be market on them. Perhaps closer to $28K as Blue is not a very common/popular color (even though I personally like it!)
Hope this helps and glad ya like the Board!
Bill
I wouldnt say "helpless"
Well, if your car is clean, and runs well, I'd say that about $9-10K is fair wholesale for it. The miles, as we know, slaughter the car's value. But then, look at it this way, you used twice as much car as someone who does 10K a year, right?
Hope this helps.. Let me know what kind of bids you get!
Bill
And, here's how you ought to buy your cars, IMHO.
Buy a Leftover, current model-year car in the laste fall/early winter. I.E. Last month or now.
Then, when you trade it after a year or so, you're then trading a two year old car with an average of 15-20K a year on it. NOT a High Mile one-year old car.
A 1999 with 36K on it is worth more than a 1999 with 70K on it right now. And the 36K or so mile 1999 will be bid a little low, but nor thousands and thousands below "rough book" like a 70K mile 99 would be worth right now.
That's the way ya need to do it!
Bill
I would say:
"DO NOT BUY JAPANESE CARS USED. The resale is so high you are smarter to buy a new one where no one else could abuse it."
I'd buy a car like that new and baby it. Don't trade but sell it yourself as a rolling creampuff complete with full service history.
My Contour had 30K and wasn't a stripper: V6, leather, aftermarket CD and speakers, moonroof, alloys, spoiler, fog lamps, newer tires (all matching). But in grand American Car fashion, it was a bit "sloppy". The car featured a variety of squeaks and rattles, body integrity was subpar, the heater fan wouldn't work some times and it had a dent in the front bumper. Ford also recalled the car 7 times for defects (no more Fords for me!). I maintained the car well and kept it clean and attractive, but drove it very hard. It also was a 5-speed manual. This is either the kiss of death for an already unloved domestic sedan, but then again my V6 Contour is recognized as a great driver's car, so the tranny choice is appropriate to the enthusiast.
Using Edmunds and KBB, I determined my car was worth between $7600-$9200 (depending on condition). Having these figures chisseled into my brain, I was surprised to find out how little dealers would offer for my car.
One of the dealers started talking straight with me and I actually believe he wasn't lying to me. He said the guide books on the Internet are immaterial. What matters is how much the car goes for at an auction. They (a Honda dealer) had no use for an unpopular domestic sedan, so they'd have to auction it off. They had some auction book (Garrolls? Garretts?) that listed the going market rates for used cars at auctions over the last two weeks. In this book, my Contour had a base wholesale value of $5500, plus options. With the extra options, the "fair auction price" was around $6800.
I was a little perturbed. I paid $16K for the Contour and that was after $1550 in Citibank rebates and $400 college grad. Where did all the value go? I realize you do get killed on depreciation with a domestic (at least I had 0.9% financing on the Contour).
Hearing this trade-in offer, I got up and said "well, if my car is only worth $6800, then it is in my financial interests to keep the car. It's worth more to me than $6800. I want $8000 for my car. If I can't get that, I might as well wait a few more months to buy a new car because my Contour can't depreciate much more!" I really wanted to unload the Contour, but this seemed like the right move to make. I left the showroom, somewhat disappointed, but thinking that I needed to stick to my guns.
The next day, the dealer called me up at work and offered me $8000 for my Contour. I accepted it and bought the Accord.
I'm certain that they will lose money on the Contour, but then again, I paid $800 over invoice on the Accord and I'm told I probably could have gotten very close to invoice. Plus and minus considered, I think the net effective price was fair overall.
Since my Accord is loaded, impeccably built for this price point and is a desirable Silver/Charcoal leather combination, I'll get a much more enthusiastic dealer response for my trade next time around. I am very motivated to keep my Accord in superlative condition so I can demand - and reasonably expect - top dollar for it. I'm back with the Japanese and I think that's where I am going to stay.
Atlanta is a decent market for MBs so you ought to be OK. Now, if you were in Twin Falls, ID or something....
And I'm personally sick of seeing Silver and Black ones!
Bill
So it depends on the car. At one point Tahoes and Suburbans did quite well, now I;m not too sure about em.
That's also true of a lot of German Luxury cars, they hold their value so well (Look at 1yr old Boxsters, market on them is close to original MSRP) that its' silly to buy used.
Again, all depends on the car though!
Bill
Actually, from what I am seeing (They were probably looking at Galves and $50 says you're in the northeast.. probably the NYC metro area/NJ) you did buy that Accord at around invoice.
That Contour was simply not worth $8,000. Market on it is $7,000-$7,500. It was low-mile, but even so, those are very weak cars. Carleton and Bret, see my point? I'd guess that they overallowed around $500-$800 on the Honda and that they wholesaled the Contour for about $7K or so.
Again, there's a lot of good info on the net, but like they said, a car is simply worth whatever the market will bear for it. And, unfortunately in the case of the Contours, it's pretty weak..
Bill
Thanks very much in advance for this *great* information...
I've got three vehicles I'd like you to provide values on, if you would: my current car, and the two I'm deciding between buying.
My car:
1992 Acura Integra GSR
105K, manual, AC, CD
green ext, gray cloth int
Has had past paint work, and shows typical 9-yr old bumps and bruises, but otherwise mechanically solid and reliable.
New Option #1:
1999 BMW 328i Sedan
44K, manual, sport pkg, roof, CD, pwr htd seats
Silver ext, black leather int
Assume clean history
New Option #2:
2000 Audi S4 Sedan
18K, manual, loaded except nav & phone
Also silver w/ black leather and clean history
What should I hope to get for my Integra, selling privately, and what is fair to pay for the BMW and the Audi to private sellers?
I'm in Wisconsin...
Dave
Bill, as you've said and as I can see reading these posts, lots of people are getting hammered on values with their GMs, Fords, and Chryslers. Not all american-built cars compare poorly with their foreign counterparts though. And foreigns are usually more expensive. THere must be something about auto sales in this country that works against the owners.
OK, stop laughing.
Looked at a 98 SVT 29.5K on the clock. Considering trading my 99 SE. SVT is silver, blue leather interior, both no-cost options CD and moon roof, (no spoiler thank God), but missing the factory wheels. It has some after market brand wheel instead. (However, certainly not the Borbets I have on my unit.)
My potential trade: 99 DE V6, ATX, DC, foggies, spoiler, keyless entry, factory alloys (not my Borbets), 14K miles, immaculate, and after I procured a new beater/commuter car driven on weekends only.
Car was on website, but a call to the dealer indicates car was sold.
However...
Sales pro tells me of a 99 SE V6 stick, but not much more. Stop by after work and that car is ugly. It is a lease return and you can tell the owner just didn't care.
Anyway, I leave my business card and drive off. Call the wife committee to let her know what I'm doing and that I'm on the way home. Dinner is cooking.
Sales pro calls me back and says he wants to talk numbers on the SVT, buyer hasn't closed in about two weeks (12/27/00). I tell him that I can't come back now as I've just "phoned home," but I'll be back lunchtime Tuesday unless some service call ambushes me.
So, what range of deal should I expect?
My car should require no reconditioning and is still under factory warranty. This is the dealership I purchased the potential trade from, so I'm a repeat buyer. However, my original sales rep has "moved on."
Of course all is contingent on the condition of the SVT. Since it was a sold unit, the saleman with the "sale" is holding the keys so no one else messes up the car. There is a rub mark on the passenger side that may be buffed out. (Why hasn't this already happened?)
I'm really looking for a range of differences since I'd like to trade. We all know the resale is horrible on the car, but since I'm trading like models the depreciation should be about as bad on both units, so that should somewhat wash. I think I have a good case to either beat up the trade offer on my car or beat down the price of the SVT.
Enough of my rambling. Comments?
Cheers,
TB
Bill's the pro, but I'll give you my feelings.
The Contour is a cult car. You love it or hate it. There is no in-between. I find this trade arrangement very interesting.
You could basically approach it like this. The dealer needs a profit on the SVT sale and a profit on your trade. The retail value between your Contour and the SVT is not much since the SVT is a year older, double the miles and has little warranty remaining. I'd almost say they should be worth nearly the same (though the dealer won't agree, of course).
You give him $1000 gross for the SVT and $1500 gross for your trade. That's $2500. So if you have a loan, take a new one out with another $2500 on top of it and you've got an SVT. I wouldn't do the typical "SVT is $14,995 and your trade is worth $10000. That's $5000 plus your loan balance" route. Figure how much more a 98 SVT would be worth at retail over a 99 SE (if anything), add some gross revenue to cover the dealer's expenses and fair profit margin.
My figures are slightly hypothetical, so you may need to adjust them, but I like the strategy, considering you are buying a like car.
1) 1998 BMW 323ic convertible. Blue/gray leather, 5 speed, 37K, premium package (power top), heated seats, HK stereo. BMW certified (from a dealer), $27,000
2) 1998 BMW 528i. Green/tan leather, premium package, heated seats, roof, 34K, 5 speed. Not a certified car (from a local used car dealer). Clean, no bodywork. $28,500
If I get the convert, I'll probably trade up to a sedan in summer 2002. If I get the 528, I'll keep it for a lot longer, so depreciation /resale is more of an issue for the 323.
Does either of these jump out at you as a particular bargain?
As always, thanks for the service, and I hope you didn't freeze up when it hit 29 the other day in Orlando.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Please tell me what I did wrong today. I have a 97 Honda Prelude with 39000 miles (STD not SH). It is in excellent condition all over and I think I should be able to trade it for 14000. I want to buy a 2001 Accord EX-V6. Here's my math:
22335 invoice
223 1% profit
22558 subtotal
677 3% tax
440 destination
-----
23675 offer
- 14000 trade
-----
9675 final price
They told me "No - 11400 trade and 24100 OTD - 12700 TOTAL!"
We were so far off that I didn't even counter, I thought I made a fair offer. Can you tell me what I should expect to pay for the Accord and get for my Prelude?
Thanks a lot,
Gary in Albuquerque, NM
I politely told him to call me when he is done smoking the pipe.
Cheers,
TB
I am in the market for a Wrangler. For a variety of reasons a 2000 leftover seems to make sense vs. a 2001. I have found a new 2000 on my local dealer's lot that would fit the bill. They have it priced about $500 below invoice.
My question is that since a 2001 can easily be had for $200 over invoice there is only a $700 spread here. How do you value a new leftover. The difference in depreciation has to be more than $700. What is a fair markdown?
The reason I want to go with a 2000 is that I typically drive 18,000 to 20,000 miles a year. Yes, in a Wrangler!
Mark
Perhaps someone can help.
Im looking at 3 types of vehicles.
1997 Escorts, Corollas and Tercels. Using a scale of "average"
What would be a fair price to pay to a private seller for each of these? Considering the dealer is going to give them a much lower price, is it worth splitting the difference between trade-in and private sale price? Which of the price guides is the most accurate? Thanks
The key to buying an ECHO is to not get carried away with options. The basic ECHO with A/C, AT, PS is a steal but as with many Toyotas, some of the options are on the pricey side.
2 specifically the above mentioned protege with hi miles
3 same car with normal miles, 30-40k
4 how do i decide which is better value in this category: new vs 1 year, 2 year, 3 year olds
5 price seems to be key, new pricing is pretty simple, late model used pricing seems more difficult, how can i make decision without good pricing info
Bill
It's been a crazy week.
OK... The Acura probably is worth about $3,500 or so retail, and about $1,500 wholesale. It's tough to give an unseen on a car like that.
The BMW Has too many miles. Pass.
The Audi is, from what I have seen of what S4s are doing, worth about $2K Back of Current MSRP.
Hope this helps!
Bill