Real-World Trade-In Values

im_brentwood

LOLOL...

When you coming back to FL?

Speaking of stupidity... I am running a few Camrys with more miles than the Millenium Falcon out at Exit 15 tomorrow night... Ought to be a riot! Last 94 I sold with 203K on it (Clean car but repainted doghouse) did $4,100. What are these exporters smoking???

Bill

karz10

Hey thanks, I think I did ok
As far as that job goes, if the telecom and internet stocks go any further down, I may be lookin for a job, maybe you want to invest in a new shop out in NC/SC area??? Maybe near the beach somewhere???

Karz

lleroi

Do either of you bid on/purchase any of the Korean makes?

im_brentwood

Not unless I have the car presold...

For retail I generally mess with cheaper highline cars and Jags (As well as wacko stuff like Alfa-Romeos)

I'll generally only buy them on order myself...

Bill

steine13

Reminder to self and all the other non-professionals on this board: Whatever Bill and Terry and others say, is what the market values cars at. That's a very narrow point of view, even though it's an important one.

As far as that 9k mile Accord for $1500 less than new: That's just NUTS!!! No matter if they're worth that at auction, why not buy new?

Let's see, I just bought a brand new Accord, here comes my buddy Tony & says, "Hey I have an idea, here's $1500, lemme take your new shiny set of wheels and I'll be back in 8 months or so, when I've put 9,000 miles on it, then you can have it back!"

So I say "Great idea, Tony, that's so generous of you, I can't believe it! Lemme go get the keys, just be sure and be back before Easter!" Right.

C'mon guys, sometimes you gotta see the forest for the trees!

Sheesh.
-Mathias
In Weiterstadt, Germany for the week. IAA starts on Thursday!

sobers

Is it bad to save 1500 bucks on a car which holds value like currency ? Many of my friends are working here on the work permit/h1 visa, so the depreciation after 2/3 years is a n imp (not the sole mind you) issue. Also saving 1500 compared to the new one..what do you think ? is it good or bad ?

sobers

or getting an year old accord with a few miles instead of the new civic !!

cl3823

Hiya folks!

Anyways, I was told that you guys here could give me a realistic,fair value for this vehicle I am probably going to payoff (and thus end the lease).

It is a 1999 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer with 18000 miles and is in great, excellent condition. I really took care of this SUV. Anyways, it has everything including moonroof, CD changer...just all the bells and whistles!

I leased this car, new, from a Ford dealership on a 66 month lease program for $375 a month starting in Feb. 2000.

I like the car and want to keep it so I called for a payoff and the bank told me it would be in the low $23000. I felt that was kinda high, which leads me to this discussion. Anyone know is this is a fair price? And if not, what price is good and fair for me and how do I "negotiate" to that price?

Thanks!

topgun7

Saw on the newspaper in SF Bay area for a 99 gs400 15Kmi White with Nik radio, 17 inches wheels from an individual. The seller is asking for $35k. Another ads has a 00 Deville, 14Kmi for $22k from a used car lot. In general when I shop for used cars that still have manufacturing warrenty on it, do I still need to have a mechnic to check engine etc? Also if I want to check to see if the guy actually own the car and if the car has an accident, is there any web site that I can use? I used to copy down the serial number and go down to dmv to check. But I heard there are some web site that can give you the same info for a fee. Any special shopping tips when getting a used car from the used car lot? Over the years, I bought a few used cars from individuas. All of the used cars are 1 or max 2 years old with manufacturer warrenty still available.And it seem to serve us well. However, I have never shop in a used car lot before. Any help will be greatly appreciated. By the way, what would be a good price for the GS and Deville? Many thanks.

im_brentwood

Umm..

Be that a 2WD or a 4WD? And what color is it?

That being said I rarely see much oif an advantage to paying a lease off early... But $23K sounds pretty scary to me I'm afraid to say...:(

Bill

im_brentwood

Umm,

you found some real good deals there partner!

I'd not be surprised at all if that Lexus would do $35K if it ran across the block at an auction. As a dealer I'd be a player around $33K-33,500 on a push.. but.. well... these cars dont generally need to be sold at fire-sale prices.

If the car is nice and free of paintwork, buy it. IMO that's a deal.

The second one raises some flags here...

A 2000 Cadillac DeVille? 15K miles? $22,000??

What the....???

Uhh... that's well back of actual wholesale. In fact, those puppies, if clean and in a good color sell all day long for like $26-27K all day long... And that's dealer wholesale auctions.

So I'm real suspicious here.

Either:

A) There's a real funny story on this car here. I.E. It's got a rebuilt title, its' TMU (True Miles unknown).. heck.. it could be wrecked or something! In other words, it's nearly $9,000 back of retail market... too cheap. It goes past good deal to "stupid good deal"

I mean,why would the dealer retail it for that when it could wholesale for $4Kmore? Makes no sense. I'd carfax that car (www.carfax.com is what youre thinking of)

Or.. If its nice... and you dont want it, And its' for real... heck I'd pay a $1,000 finder's fee in a heartbeat for a deal like that!

In other words.. be real suspicious!

Bill

steine13

Yeah, I think it's bad to save $1500 by buying a year-old Accord with 9k miles. If I'm going to shell out that kind of money, I'd invest the extra $1.5k and get exactly what I want and start at 0. Not to mention the warranty and other peace-of-mind things, such as not letting the car warm up for 30 minutes when the temperature is near zero degrees. When you drive the car from new, you KNOW how it's been taken care of.

The short time horizon for people with visitor visa changes the picture a little bit; that's always a tough one.

But there's a reason Bill and Terry call it "stupid money". Those first months and miles are precious enough to me that I'd buy them, esp. for a measly $.16 a pop.

Peace.
-Mathias

rroyce10

....... I think you ran across a deal on the GS, it has no miles and it's the right color no matter where you live ... You can always take it to a Lexus store for an eyeball, go check it out ...

The Deville, that's a different story -- Nice, clean, low mileage DeVilles are going way over "AVG book" right now. They are popular and people love the new body style --- Soooo, if it's clean, nice and "All there" .. that's a steal at $22,000, cus' I'm paying over the $27,000 figure for the "in the wrapper types" and like Bill said, $22,000 is WAY UNDER what they can get .. just on a mere phone call -- *Yeppers, flag time*

When you are lookin', try Carfax, I probably use them a hundred times a month, just so I know where the Vehicle has been and some history to go with. I'm not shy with a Clean, low mile Rental or Lease Vehicle, but I do get a little "weak kneed" on a 2 year old vehicle that has been to NY, PA, FL, then back to Ohio on 5 titles ..l...o...l...

You can make some excellent deals on private sales -- Being a Dealer I probably buy 4/5 vehicles a month from private owners ... I have always had good luck, but I always have them checked out ..

I hope this helps...

Terry.

rroyce10

qwalls

Bill/Terry,

I'm posting this for a friend who is considering a 2002 Maxima. She's trading a white '94 Altima GLE, it's in fair to good condition, and has tan leather interior, moonroof, alloys, spoiler, and 112k miles. This is in Columbus, OH. I don't think it's ever been in an accident, and the tires are about a year old, and in good shape. She was offered $2500 a few months ago, and $1800 a few days ago. Have you guys seen any of these go through the auctions?

Thanks,
Quentin

tlaplante

Amen Terry

karz10

topgun, seems reasonable to me, to give you an idea, see my example below:

Which leads me to a Q for the group, as some of you know, I have been shopping for a new car after finally selling mine. I have always liked the GS400, but previously out of my league, even used. I am looking to spend between $28k and $32k on my next ride and drive a lot of miles. Recently dropped by dlr and drove a 98 GS300, was impressed with the short test drive, nice style in/out, sporty, comfortable, more width inside that new cars like TL-S that I've looked at.

I would like to know what to expect to pay for prvt sale or dlr certified 98-2000 GS300 or 98-99 GS400. I am confused by the dealer pricing, compared to edmunds, kbb, nada. It seems that the dlr here prices his cars about $1-2k over kbb/nada online dlr retail, and $5k over edmunds 'dlr certified clean' pricing including up or down mileage adj. I'm sure he would relatively easily come down to kbb level, but $5k down to edmunds, it seems he would be admitting to thievery at that point wouldn't it??

Also, there's only about a dozen GS400's for sale used of any year within 200 mi of me online or in papers, and most of them are higher mile, there are more 300's of course.

Example of a car I was interested in @ the dlr:

1999 GS 300
blk/tan lthr
23k mi
no wing, no gold, no nak, reg wheels w/60-16s
clean
Asking $36,900
kbb dealer perfect-$35,980
edmunds clean dlr certified-$31,721
in Charlotte, NC

1998 GS 300
blk/tan lthr
47k mi
gold, no wing, no nak, reg whls
clean, minor blemish on paint, they'd prob fix
Asking $32,900
kbb dlr perfect- $30,595
Edmunds clean dlr certified- $27,533
(on this one kbb allows 51,000 mi whereas EDmunds is taking a mi deduct, interesting isn't it)

Any ideas on these or generic deals I should look for would be appreciated, I would seriously consider a relatively low mi., GS 3 or 4 if I could get one in my price range.

Thanks,
Karz

rroyce10

.... ..... I see a lot of Altima's at the auctions, these are great vehicles. In my stupid opinion, probably best "Bang for the Buck" Import..

Soooo, this a 94 GLE "all toyed out" with 112,000 Klicks huu... it has the roof, leather and wheels -- "if" it's just kinda average, you are probably looking at $2grand or less. The miles don't scare Import buyers if all the service stuff has been done ..

2 options here, spend $100 or so, and have it cleaned and detailed ( make it look like a *diamond* ), and pick up another $500 from a dealer ..or.. have it cleaned and detailed, through it in the Columbus paper and ask $3995 and you will probably see $3,000+. I sell alot of vehicles in the Columbus area, and right now there is a lot of parents and other consumers looking for clean, reliable and sporty transportation to move all those Buckeyes around ....

I hope this helps...Go OSU

Terry.

sonjaab

Need some figures : Wants to trade:
95 GMC jimmy 4x4 4door 6 cyl auto SLE
41 k miles Original tires (thin) No roof or
leather all power stuff. Super clean in
and out.
Wants to buy: 01 Jimmy 4x4 4 door 6 auto, SLE
23k miles ouch !!!!!! Syracuse ny area
Thanks before she gets hurt...........Geo

qwalls

Thanks for the info on the Altima.

Quentin

rroyce10

......... The GS's are one of my favorites for the overall, and I have driven a bunch ...

I have to figure, that the 99 GS with no miles and in "perfect condition" is worth in and around a hard $28ish ( if it's black and NOT down south ), and by the time the detail is done, service is cleared and the "certified BS" is added, the dealer has in and around $30ish in it -- I'm not sure about all the other #'s, by the other information centers .. GS's are not distressed merchandise ..

If you love the 99, I would negotiate the deal "without" the "certified" stuff ... and tighten up a quality -extended waranty- through another avenue, which will be much less, and keep the overall price down. I don't feel that $31,700 is a realistic number, more towards the $33ish number is more in inline...

The 98 is a little stiff in the miles catergory, So, I'm thinkin' the dealer is doing a $26ish figure when it finally comes to the table ... So, I'm thinkin' a better price would be in and around a $29ish figure ... that's if both of these vehicles are as C L E A N as you may think .. What's your thinkin' Bill ..?

Terry.

rroyce10

..... Ok, we have a low mileage, clean to the bone 4X4 Jimmy with -0- for tires , what's wrong with this picture .. l...o...l..

Hmmmmmm, you know what they say "Clothes make the Man" -- and tires makes the vehicle ..
I'm thinkin' $7,000ish on the push. The 01 Jimmy has a ton off miles and there is a bunch of these at the auctions as we speak .. I'm sure your not paying over $18,000 "if" it's just "poyfect" ..
By the way, my G/F just left this morning for Syracuse NY -- .... Is there something I should know here..?

Terry.

im_brentwood

I'm with you on the Lexi with one exception..

Certification. Before I went back on me own I workd for Jimmy Bryan Lexus..

Cost of a Lexus CPO Warranty is $595. Gives the car 3yrs or up to 100K on the clock. It is NOT Transferrable.

Figure they gotta do a heavy cert program inspection.. we used to avg $900+ per car... Soo..

Take it from there I suppose. OTOH, if the car came in on trade with racing slicks.. we'd obviously deduct for that.

So, if the dealer is only gonna drop the price $500-1K for lack of cert... Can ya get, say, a 3yr/50-60K warranty for that price? hmmm...

Bill

sonjaab

Syracuse is fine...Just a lot of sad people
here.............
This is for one of the girls that work for
me. They wanted 21,900 for 01...5,000 for
the trade OUCH !!!! I don't know why she
wants a newer one.Not a lick wrong with it
Not a scratch...Blue hair owner... I told her
i would give 6k cash. My girl wants to dump
our caddy (NO NO) she wants a little suv....
We will see..Thanks don"t worry
about syracuse,,,Tell your girl to have
lunch at the Dinousar BBQ............Geo

salesperson

I had a customer the other day who was trading a 2001 Chevy truck. The book value was like 14k-15k, but when I took it to a few wholesale lots the best price I could get was 11.5k. Needless to say the customer was upset and thought I was holding back on their trade and there was no way for me to convince her otherwise. She did call back two days later after going to other dealerships. Some offered her a couple of thousand more, but all the did was move numbers from price to trade. I told her that I had not done that out of respect for her intelligence, and once she gets her truck payed down and saves some money for down payment she should come back. She promised she would and I hope my honesty is the reason for that

salesperson

I just wonder how many people would agree to paying MSRP for a new vehicle, before you all laugh out loud consider this. Most customers will get mad and call me a crook if I offer less for than their trade than what the "holiest of holies" the Kelly Blue Book offers, but fully expect me to cut my price thousands of dollars before they consider it. Also Customer say we are just trying to drive up the price if we say there are other buyers for the car they want, In fact I have seen posts on this site that customers refused to buy from dealerships that told them this, but those same customers see no problem with calling me with prices,real or bogus I get both, from other dealerships on the same car in an effort to drive my price down.

topgun7

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on the GS and Deville. The Deville deal really doesn't make any sense. We probably won't pursue it any further. Wifey like the GS very much but worry about the car. We used to own a 98 GS4. It has a problem with the telescoping steering wheel that the dealer could not fix. In a hot day (90 degrees or so), the steering wheel generate a loud grinding noise when you insert the key into the ignition. We sold the car before the warrenty expired. According to the mechanic, some GS4 has this problem while others don't. She loved the car but cannot stand the loud noise and the thoughts that one of these day the steering wheel may fall apart. Anyhow, she decided to at least check this particular one out. In the mean time, she started to warm up on the ody. Will see if Raybear can help us locating one for MSRP in the bay area (me think wishful thinking and we need to continue to shop for a good use car. He He)... If not, I will be back for some more advice. You guys are great. Thanks a buch for your advise.

rroyce10

...... I have no problems with .. "Extended Warranties" -- I'm a HUGE advocate of them for all vehicles.

I'm just not sold on the "Certified" craze -- I have dealt with Jesse James ...eerrr, I mean Jimmy Bryan, and I do understand their profit centers.

I just don't feel it's to a consumers benefit, to pay $1,000/$2,000 for a warranty that cost's the dealer $595, I don't do it in my stores.

If a dealer can't "earn" their profits on the front or back, that's their fault. Because that effects all the dept's, if you know what I mean .. I have had plenty of "ex" JB personnel looking for positions with us because of this type of business practice.

nuff said ...

Terry.

im_brentwood

I totally agree.

When we certified our Jags for select edition, the warranty cost us $895 and we sold it for $1095 if the customer wanted it. I also agree on the warranty overcharging, A lot of guys really like to stick it to people on these "certified" cars. Granted, we all have to make a living.. but when I see Select Edition Jags sell for thousands and thousands over KBB retail.. I mean, I saw a SE 1998 XJ8 with 37K miles.. a Black one at that for $39,995... I mean.. sheesh!

Well said on JB. Since like.. ohh.. March/April or so.. He's lost/fired:

GM of 26 years
GSM (since 94)
Asst GSM (Since 1986)
Asst GSM (had been there since 94)
F&I Mgr (Since 1990)
TO Mgrs: 2, both of whom had years with him...etc...

There's virtually nobody left there...

Point WELL Taken on him! In the meantime I am happily stealing his trades at Ocoee )

Bill
reformed JBer

mmedina1

I'd very much appreciate opinions on what my 1998 BMW 323is coupe is worth on a trade. Details are: white exterior with black leather interior; 58k miles; 5 spd; both sport and premium packages (which include sunroof, leather, alarm, keyless remote entry, fog lights, sport suspension, 16 inch wheels) 6 CD changer, heated front seats and 5 month old Bridgestone Potenza Pole Position S-02s. The car is in great shape, has no body damage or dings and has been dealer serviced and maintained. Thanks! Mark

kgtatum

I have a friend who will sell me his 4runner for $11500. It is charchol w/ cloth int. 140k mi. V6 auto w/OD. pwr win, lok, mirror. Moon roof .tow pkg. off road pkg, brush guard, luggage rack, Pioneer CD, rear heat, running boards, P265/75R16 tires, alum/alloys, clean condition. a/c. driving lights (KC). Tinted windows. Gas shocks. Location is near Tacoma, WA.
He is asking $13,500 if he puts it in the paper. Could you tell me if this is a fair price for both of us?
Thanks for a truly valuable service.
Sincerely,
Greg

rroyce10

....... Well let's see --- it's a coupe, no help there, and it's a handshaker, less help there and the miles are a little stiff ... But --

It's the right color, and it has all the toy's. "IF" -- this little darlin' is super clean, no ballet lessons by a St Bernard on the leather seats and it "Shows new" from top to bottom --- I'm thinkin' in and around the high $15's ....( real money )

I hope this helps....

Terry.

rroyce10

.... It certainly sounds nice.

So it's a SR5 with all the stuff .. V6 and auto, big bonus points there -- and it's nice with the slider and such. But, even though it's a Toyota, it still has 140,000 klicks -- I can't speak for Tacoma, but in the overall market, if it's super clean with every service sheet, and never a drive through a Mcdonalds -- I'm thinkin' it's a $5,000 vehicle ..$5,500 on a super push if it's "Purrrfect" ( ouch, I hate myself sometimes ) ---

Soooo, that leads you into the $7,500/$8,000 retail end or so if you can't live without it (ouch)... you should be able to buy 95's just like it with 55/65 klicks for his price -- but, I don't live in Tacoma ... been there, it's nice ...

Terry.

im_brentwood

I agree.

$11,500 for that is wacky.

The only ones that I see that get wacko are at Denver (Look in MMR online... highest ones are always at Denver AA) and, of course, Imperial (An Auction in Lakeland, FL where Caribbean and South/Central American dealers and exporters pay asinine $$ for old and high-mile Toyotas and Hondas).

Bill

kgtatum

Thanks for the timely info on the 4Runner...does it make a difference that the motor only has 64k on it?...It was replaced w/ a factory new motor under warranty(extended) in '98. Everything replaced due to a forgotten bolt during a servicing.
This must be one of those wacked areas because I looked through the Sun. paper last night and saw 93-95 4Runners from 7500 up to 16k! w/ miles in the high 60's up to 150k. A few '94's w/ 100-110k at dealers for 11995-13995USD.
Your advise is much appreciated.
Greg

im_brentwood

New motor? I hate to sound blunt.. but as a dealer..

So? It still has more miles on it than most Cessnas.

$11-12K is reasonable retail I suppose for a 100K miler.. And as they say, you can ask whatever you want... I mean, I can ask $10,000 for the 1994 SAAB 900S V6 5-speed on my lot, doesnt mean I'll ever sell it for that. Its' been my experience that the most isnane prices I see are for private party cars.

This one was my favorite (Back in May or June in the Orlando AutoTrader):

"1997 Cadillac Sedan DeVille. Pearl White with Neutral Leather, very clean, factory moonroof, leather, 149K hwy miles, one-owner, $17,900"
Hmm... I figure the car to be worth about.. ohh..$5K wholesale..and like $7,500 retail.

A mere $10K over market

The 1997 Z3 with 50K for $25,000 in the same book also got me chuckling!

Bill

zapatista2000

I broached this a few weeks ago, but it's time to actually get rid of my truck so I'm hoping peoples' experiences might help me get rid of my it. It's an 88 Jeep Comanche pickup with 180,000 miles on it and I'm not sure whether to try to sell it, donate it or just salvage it. It's in pretty poor condition--idles rough, tail and dash lights went out last month (electrical, I'm sure), the driver's door only opens from the inside, it leaks about a quart of oil per tank of gas. But it always starts, drives surprisingly smooth and the body, besides the door, is in pretty good shape. I wish I lived in the country because it would be a good farm work truck for a few hundred bucks. It's a pain to try to sell it because I live in Washington DC and it's parked a few miles from my apartment. Any guess what a salvage yard would pay for it? Sorry if this is too far off the topic in here. Just hoping maybe someone has had a similar experience.

bretfraz

DC? That's unfortunate. I know a couple guys looking for a decent Comanche to fix up. But they're in Georgia.

Someone may want it for a project truck or for parts. Jeeps have a wierd following. A scrap yard will prolly pay $100-150 for it. You might get $300-500 from a guy who wants it as a project.

Advertise it in all you local papers and neighborhood classifieds. You never know who wants one.

kgtatum

Thanks so much...if he won't come down on the price, I'll just pass....don't need it...just like it.
Sincerely,
Greg

rroyce10

...... Bill said it all...

Terry.

mmedina1

Thanks for your help. Mark

rroyce10

.....You my friend ..are quite welcome ...

Terry.

zapatista2000

Thanks for the advice. I'll list it and see what happens.

qbrozen

That is something you might want to find a jeep message board for (not necessarily edmund's, but one dedicated to jeeps). I sold my '64 non-running-no-interior-ferns-growing-on-it Land Rover that way for quite a bit of cash.

im_brentwood

Up for some laughs?

So much for lack of consumer confidence....

1) 1994 Jaguar XJ6. Silver/Grey. 89K miles Slicktop (!!), Seat bottoms in front redone nicely in Vinyl, some wood weak, tires fair. Left headlight cloudy. Pretty good paintwork on RF Fender and decklid. Car was running on, perhaps, 4cyls at best. Sputtering and smoking. Coolant level, check engine,etc lights all on.

Did $6,800!

2) 1995 Discovery. Hot air, Air Bag and ABS Lights and Ck Engine lights on. Paint weakish.. buffable though. LF Corner of bumper pushed in 2". No radio (missing), 106K miles. SE, Gold/Beige Leather. Dual Roofs and Jumpseats.

No-Saled at $8,800... seller wanted $9,500.

Am I suddenly nuts or was this insanity? Although $4,500 that a guy wanted for a 91 Camry XLE V6 with 140K on it recently also nearly took the taco...



Bill

isellpotiac

The auctions are holding strong for the time being. If I was a betting man I think the deals will come next week at latest. Too bad I have no room on floorplan or lot to stock some cheap buys. BTW on the star wars colored SUV, this customer was far and away the biggest jackass I have ever dealy with. He wanted $11000 for the purple SUV.

isellhondas

Did you ever see a Discovery or Range Rover that DIDN'T have some kind of warning light on or other electrical problem?

What pieces of junk!

But, just in case you didn't know...for some reason on Rovers, the ABS light stays on until you drive it several yards or more.

rbrenton88

I'm a little confused. Terry, you were. I think, advocating aftermarket warranties instead of 'certified' deals. After all the horror stories about Acme warranty denying claims because the list of 'exclusions' is longer than the inclusions, surely you can't be referring to that kind?
The good factory certified programs cover just about bumper to bumper with no muss, no fuss. What other types offer that kind of protection?

And, if a car is already offered as 'certified', how do you back that out for negotiation purposes? Isn't the money already sunk by the dealer?

Ok, here's one for you...'71 Buick GS 455 Stage 1 (or maybe it's GC or thereabouts), convertible top, runs well but needs a good tuneup. very good body although it appears to be almost a mustard color...white vinyl top with matching interior. not sure how many miles, but not sure how important that is.
Any thoughts on this?

Also...MB E55, any color combo, say 30-40k miles for a 98 or better model year. Decent retail price range?

Thanks!

pjd58

DX 5 speed, AC blows ice chunks:), with 56,000 miles. I would rate the condition between Good and Fair. No dents, some scratchs, noticeable since Dark Blue in color. Runs very well. Appreciate your help.

majorthomecho

I got into a discussion with a guy about the trade in values of a '90 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo. I don't know the mileage, but for sake of argument, let's say low mileage. I don't know his location, but let us say the LA area. Condition is show room new. Oh, car is white.

Most sources I have checked say car is worth around $7k in trade.

Do you think the sources are accurate?