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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?
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Another reason why I hate the whole text messaging thing - my kid's phone doesn't have that service!
What is your opinion, MSRP $48500.00, Selling price is $43833.00, Invoice is $43336.00
Thanks
JDINNJ
Let me explain...
Four days ago I contacted four Honda dealerships. I was helping a girl I know buy a new 2004 Accord. Anyways, I told each internet salesmen (not a traditional car salesman who sits on the floor waiting to maximize their profit) that I plan on shopping for the next three days. Once those 3 days are up I told them I plan on closing on the deal. Did they have proof I would would buy? No! They had to take my word for it just like they would have to using our reverse auction website or any other situation. We plan on installing a feature on the website where a buyer can tell a dealer a time frame they are going to buy in. I asked them if I get a quote lower than theirs would they like to be contacted to counter offer it. They agreed as long as the current quote was exceptable to them and as long as I didn't contact them every five mins with a new quote. So I made it a point to only contact these dealers twice a day at the most.
Now I also told them she had a trade and we would only negotiate the trade after we have negotiated the price on the new car. They also agreed to that as well. So now I just put the ball into their court for the trade just like we would do on the reverse auction. The buyer will be informed that our reverse auction system is providing them with the lowest possible selling price. We will also inform them not to expect guide book prices for their trade due to this fact. I told my girl how it worked and she was content with it.
Well now your seeing where I am going with this. I never released to the dealers who is providing me these quotes. Bottom line is they participated and my girl bought her car at a fair market price.
Here is the kicker the dealer we bought from even paid me a $100 bird dog fee. On initial contact all three dealers agreed to a $100 bird dog as long as a sale was made.
Now tell me car pros what's the differnce between what I just done and my reverse auction theory. No political answers please. Give it to me straight.
"I told my girl how it worked and she was content with it."
So, we have an uneducated consumer being helped my someone equally as uneducated in the car deal business.
"your girl" got what kind of price on the new car, and since you weren't expectig guide book prices, how much did they lay away her trade?
How many hundreds and thousands did you cost this person in order to make YOUR $100??
Here, I'll give it to you straight, with a question...
What did trusting you cost her?
(2) Whatever he posts, because he doesn't understand the whole process, the price will be higher than a Honda dealer here on the boards could do.
I got $4999 under invoice on that same Accord and $3599 more for my trade than Blue Book retail. So there!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Let me explain...
Four days ago I contacted four Honda dealerships. I was helping a girl I know buy a new 2004 Accord. Anyways, I told each internet salesmen (not a traditional car salesman who sits on the floor waiting to maximize their profit) that I plan on shopping for the next three days. Once those 3 days are up I told them I plan on closing on the deal. Did they have proof I would would buy? No! They had to take my word for it just like they would have to using our reverse auction website or any other situation. We plan on installing a feature on the website where a buyer can tell a dealer a time frame they are going to buy in. I asked them if I get a quote lower than theirs would they like to be contacted to counter offer it. They agreed as long as the current quote was exceptable to them and as long as I didn't contact them every five mins with a new quote. So I made it a point to only contact these dealers twice a day at the most.
Now I also told them she had a trade and we would only negotiate the trade after we have negotiated the price on the new car. They also agreed to that as well. So now I just put the ball into their court for the trade just like we would do on the reverse auction. The buyer will be informed that our reverse auction system is providing them with the lowest possible selling price. We will also inform them not to expect guide book prices for their trade due to this fact. I told my girl how it worked and she was content with it.
Well now your seeing where I am going with this. I never released to the dealers who is providing me these quotes. Bottom line is they participated and my girl bought her car at a fair market price.
Here is the kicker the dealer we bought from even paid me a $100 bird dog fee. On initial contact all three dealers agreed to a $100 bird dog as long as a sale was made.
Now tell me car pros what's the differnce between what I just done and my reverse auction theory. No political answers please. Give it to me straight.
But I do congragulate you on helping your "girl" out. Now replicate that 100x a month in your metro area w/ strangers.... come back and see us in a year and let us know how you're doing.
Let's turn the page to the next chapter.
no one is going to budge, so why continue?
let bill do his thing and he can report back in a year or so with his success or failure (although i think he'll be reporting back a lot sooner).
This could easily happen with your proposed site. I get 5 dealers down to (cost + your fee + a little profit) via your website. I take the final quote to a nonparticipating dealer, they sell me the car for (cost + a little profit) and don't have to pay your fee. I win, they win, you make nothing from the deal.
As far as your, "doesn't anyone have any questions for a car dealer?" question, I would refer you to my previous post #7942.
I think it's a very fair question and the people who car answer it openly and honestly are the great frequent posters here in this forum.
Still waiting for enlightenment.....
As far as your, "doesn't anyone have any questions for a car dealer?" question, I would refer you to my previous post #7942.
I think it's a very fair question and the people who car answer it openly and honestly are the great frequent posters here in this forum.
Still waiting for enlightenment.....
Just my .02
Duncan
So, as a buyer, I get the same internet price regardless of how I get there, which in theory is pretty much "cut to the bone", so the auction doesn't really help me. If anything, I do worse, becasue the dealer probably takes the "internet price" and adds the auction fee to get the "bid price".
Anyway, as a conceptual model, the dealer can't lose, since there is no cost, unless you participate in an auction, except for whatever time the internet department has to spend monitoring the auction site. They only have to bid when they feel it is in their best interest, down to whatever price they want. Again, this is probably the price they would otherwise quote, + auction fee.
As a consumer, at best this simplifies the quote gathering process, but if I'm net-savvy enough to use it, I can do as well (or better) with existing sources. I suppose dealers might make a few more sales, but this can be said of any advertising or lead generation tool.
Trade in and credit issues will happen in any deal, regardless of where the buyer originated.
So, this is not really an auction model (like Ebay), since there is no commitment to buy in the end. Just a convoluted lead generating tool, and a simple way for a buyer to get prices to shop.
Screw the auction fee, and make your money from advertising, a true '90s model.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
after you own the car for a few years, the difference in resale value diminishes between two cars a year apart. if you trade every year or two, then you'll probably lose what you saved when you trade.
just a layman's opinion.
Duncan --
Yeah, this drop is about $1500 to $2000. In my opinion negligible on a $40,000+ car. Let's say I don't buy the 2003. Everyone who can wait until fall (unfortunately, I can't) to buy will wait for the new model. The other folks will likely pay the extra $1500 for the remaining 2004s (and there are a lot) as well. So if the dealer persists with this ridiculous minute price difference, the 2005s will be sitting on his lot this fall, and he'll still have a 2003 in the warehouse. Once winter starts, people don't buy convertibles here in Chicago, so now the dealer has a 2003 in his warehouse in March/April 2005, nearing the end of the 2005 model year.
What ends up happening to this 2003? The longer the dealer waits, the more likely it is that he'll take a HUGE loss, rather than a small one now. A year from now, does this 2.5-year-old "new car" go to a used lot? To auction? eBay?
I guess this is what I'd like to know. What is the dealer holding out for? Selling the car online 6-12 months from now for $35,000? Or probably less?
People go to the dealer expecting them to give away the 2003 because the '04's are out and the '05 is redesigned. Big deal! If those are important factors you shouldn't look at the '03 at all.
'03 buyer: Doesn't have to have the latest greatest. Doesn't trade cars every 2-3 years. Will keep the car long enough to be financially ahead when disposed of through a combination of the lower purchase cost and time/miles used.
'04 buyer: Doesn't have to have the latest greatest. Has to trade cars sooner than he/she should. Will need the year newer model to lessen the loss he/she will take when trading in 2-3 years.
'05 buyer: Has to have the latest greatest. May or may not foolishly dispose of it too soon.
A 2004 w/20K? sorta steep miles
A 2003 w/20K? add in for low miles
Anyway, if the cars are otherwise identical, figure out what the model year means to you, and offer that. If they won't do it, buy the newer model.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Still no one has answered me. Come on guys quit beating around the bush. What is the difference?
mitzij - Go ahead and do it. The low bidding dealer and I just split the buyers deposit. They won't get it back.
Car Pros...
You don't want savvy car buyers to come in to this forum and see a honest car dealer dodging a simple question do you? Can anyone explain why the two would be any different from one another?
I really think you should retire your game here - we're actually very serious about helping consumers and other car people, and frankly, you're getting on my nerves, I know. Others have expressed the same feelings.
Please take your dog and pony show somewhere else - take the hint, please.
Springing a trade after the deal is done accomplishes nothing. It's worth the same either way. In response to the smugness in concealing it, they may even offer less or be less aggressive in seeking the highest bid if it's something they have no use for.
But, what do I know? I'm just a "traditional car salesman". Internet salespeople aren't anything special, you know. they are (gasp) simply salespeople who sit behind a computer.
LX 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 5A)
Satin Silver Metallic
$18,850 + $50 (Doc Fee)
TTL is not included in this price.
According to Edmunds invoice was $18,583
National TMV average was $19,101
And yes I was still paid a $100 bird dog. Although I am sure the bird dog was charged to her account some way or another. I agree with you guys on that.
As for the trade she was offered almost 1800 under guide book trade in values. So another words dealer auction market value. The trade was in good shape and demand is pretty good also in our local area. I tried to get her to sell it herself but she insisted on letting the dealer steal it.
Bill
Bill, I'm not a dealer or salesperson. But, I do "know" the dealers and salespeople that have responded to you at length throughout this discussion. I don't feel like they have "dodged" any questions. They've made it clear that they don't feel like the system you described is cost-effective (or effective, at all, for that matter).
Perhaps, though, I can speculate as to the difference. Let's say I am referred to drift by my best friend. My friend had a great relationship with drift and my friend trusts him. Drift knows that if I tell him my friend referred me, he's going to have a simple, friendly transaction that will give me a good deal on a car and a decent sale for him. He also knows he may turn me into someone like my friend, that if treated well, will refer others to him. That alone is well worth the $100 to my friend.
Let's say he's gets a lead from your service. Such a person using this service may solely be interested in getting the absolute lowest price, no matter how it's done. Drift places his bid and perhaps rebids a couple times, simply to move a unit and hit a sales goal. The buyer, not seeing value in the salesperson, has no reason to visit this salesperson, dealership, or brand again. This person views buying a car like buying a gallon of milk. No big deal, that's what he wants. But, this client, other than taking a unit off drift's hands, at what is likely the lowest price he'd ever want to sell this car, provides no long-term benefit. He will not refer friends, probably will not service his car at the dealership and probably will buy his next car elsewhere.
Viewing these scenarios, is the $100 to my friend not better spent than $125 to your service?
or, maybe better yet, we'll all end this chapter. Congrats on helping your "girl"
Bill
LOL! This is precisely the adversarial attitude I had anticipated. If I replied to my patients like that.....
In any case, as I stated before, I'm not looking for anyone to give away anything. No interest in "beating up" on the sales pro or dealer. For my own pricing concerns, it just seems to me that the difference between a nearly year-old new car and a nearly two-year-old new car would reasonably be more than $1500 (considering a ~$44,000 vehicle). That's it. Nothing more.
The comment about the redesign had nothing to do with my own financial decision. It dealt with a secondary question of how dealers are going to escape losing even MORE money on the 2003 once the new design is out rather than take a smaller hit now. I really am curious about what happens to a brand new car two model years old and thought that the pros on here might be able to shed some light on that.
It doesn't factor into my buying decision at all. And not all buyers are trying to screw the salesperson out of every $50 here and there. So take a nice deep breath....
Doesn't matter to a dealer where the sale comes from friend, website, stranger pointing a customer to your dealership off the street. What matters is how YOU THE DEALER treats that customer once they come in to close the deal with you.
Just because a buyer uses my website to save money does not mean they won't use a dealers services in the long run. The dealer must impress the buyer during the sale so they will be willing to come back for the top quality service they recieved while making the purchase.
Now please can someone tell me the difference?
Funny, in spite of your tutoring, they underpaid her, what, 1800.00 for her trade?
Are you ever going to tell us what the trade was?
Oh, nevermind...I've had enough too.
Arrgh! Just stop that! Please! 3rd graders use correct form, can't you?
"Doesn't matter to a dealer where the sale comes from friend, website, stranger pointing a customer to your dealership off the street. What matters is how YOU THE DEALER treats that customer once they come in to close the deal with you."
Now, who's assuming? Bill, I guarantee you that while I have not been around here long, I know what drift, bowke, isell, terry and others have repeatedly said better than you. Some of the most successful salespeople are those that only deal with referrals. I'm telling you they would prefer paying the $100 bird dog over the $125 web service fee because no matter how well they treat the web buyer, the person who was referred, more often than not, will provide a better, long-term benefit. It's a time-tested process and it's preferred because it's been proven to work.
Let me ask your question of the dealers/salespeople myself: Guys, is what I said in post #8010 more or less accurate, or not?
Bill, if I what I said is indeed accurate, then that is your answer to what the difference is between paying $100 bird dog and a $125 web referral fee. If I'm way off base, I'll apologize and accept that. I'm betting I'm more or less on base.
Ok send me your email address as promised I will send some business to you. Are you in the US? And by the way how much would you of sold this car to her for? Be honest now.
Maybe past experience does show trends like that. But with more and more people using the internet to buy personally if I was a dealer ALL my customers would be treated the same no matter what. Because again none of us has a crystal ball to really know if they will come back and use the service department or any other department for that matter. But I can improve my chances by treating them fairly the first time regardless of how I PAID to earn the buyers business.
Can I cancel the deal if they won't pay me what I feel my trade is worth. It's a 91 Chevy lumina, a collector's item with only 130k miles. It's in excellent shape (well, a few dings. oh, and that time I knocked my front license plate bracket off and scratched up the front bumper and by brother in law used REDDEVIL paint to touch it up) But, it's worth a ton of money!
I believe tornado has it right about birdies.
You've been busted - cowboy up.
And I agree!
That is why you have a house mouse or who ever else pick up all the extra business.
With your theory your saying sell to buyer A but leave out buyer B just because they didn't come from a referral who bought previously from you? hmmm Now that would be great for business!
Bill
I think you cost your friend at least $500. No wonder you got a birddog.
regards,
kyfdx
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