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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?



  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ........ Actually that was a BMW thing, not a dealer thing ....

    In this case, he contracted for the vehicle and "I'm sure" he knew it was going to be transported ...l.o.l... ... after the transport company takes possession, it's between him and them .. of course we would know more if the idiot posted back ... somebody just emailed me about a similiar deal, and like I said to him: "I'm not real crazy about those long distance car affairs" ....

    Terry ;)
  • alfoxalfox Posts: 716
    commit to a car he'd never seen or driven in the first place. He'd obviously made a commitment in the eyes of the CU or they'd never have paid. And to complicate things by buying one out of state. Shipped goods belong to the reciever. In most cases you cannot refuse delivery. I'm afraid he owns the car.

    Does sound like a troll post, doesn't it?
  • cadillacmikecadillacmike Posts: 543
    I can see that on a "NEW" car, you can see the color locally, but maybe options wanted not available - or the other way around, but I'd fly in to drive it back, not have it shipped, too much BS on the highways.

    But then again one can always ORDER a car - oh we're talking TOYotas here - oh well, perhaps time to get an American car?
  • scantyscanty Posts: 171
    This was in the local fish wrap today. Dream car turns into court battle
    Here's my take: It's not like the guy just walked in off of the street and is complaining that he is being overcharged. He put a deposit on one back in 2002, before pricing was even set. I can't wait to see how it plays out. What do our dealer friends think?
  • alfoxalfox Posts: 716
    Should be real easy - there had to be paper signed when he paid, and whatever the paper says rules.

    If this guy (an attorney, eh?) signed a sales order with something non-specific on it like "price to be determined on delivery" then he deserves to either pony up the $200+k or lose the car. Just read the paper.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    From the article, it looks as if there was nothing written down when the initial $1K changed hands. So, it becomes a classic case of "he said, he said".

    In the past, with hot cars (original Miata, New Beetle, PT Cruiser, Viper, Prowler, Odyssey, etc.), the money usually is as the dealer says .. 'right of first refusal'. The money puts you on a list for a car, and when a car arrives, you have the choice to buy it or not, at an agreed upon price.
  • alfoxalfox Posts: 716
    but if you are I wouldn't want him handling my divorce. I'd be surprised if a lawyer handed a car dealer $1k with nothing written. I'm betting there's more to this story than we yet know.
  • capitanocapitano Posts: 509
    Say he gets the car at his price. Where does he go for service? His notoriety amongst the dealers is assured. Would any of them want his business? Particularly for warranty work? This car is not a Focus that blends into the sea of other cars.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    .. **A deal is a deal, insists Brennan, 64, who said the deposit he paid on May 24, 2002, included an agreement to pay whatever Ford eventually listed as the manufacturer's suggested retail price** .....

    This is not the first (or the last) this type of thing has happened .... the Miata's when they first came out were getting $4,000 over sticker, the PT's, the T-Birds, the new Benz is getting $6/$10+ over MSRP .... no where in the contract does it say price - "he has first right of refusal" ... dealers are paying $190,000++ at the auctions ... where's he going..?

    06/01/2005 ATLANTA $ 188,000 3 RED 8G 6 SE
    05/19/2005 MANHEIM $ 195,500 4 WHITE 8G 5 X NE
    05/19/2005 MANHEIM $ 195,000 6 RED 8G 6 X NE
    01/11/2005 FAAO $ 211,000 28 Red 8G 6 X SE
    04/20/2005 MANHEIM $ 207,000 42 RED 8G 6 X NE
    04/26/2005 BIG H $ 210,000 54 WHITE 8G 6 SW

    Typical attorney "I'll scare them" .... yah right ...

    Either step up - or step out .... but step.!

  • I really need some advice. I've been reading postings on this board and I know you guys can be brutally honest, but I'm going to be up front and admit that I am stupid - especially when I bought this car. Here's the story:

    I went to a local large volume Chevy dealership in Texas. I was desperate because I was driving a 13 year old mini-van that was about to die and I'm a single mother who almost lost her job because the van kept dying. Anyway, I went in to the used car department and was shown several Chevy Malibu's. I wanted a car that had extremely low miles and was obviously under manufacturer warranty.

    I found a 2005 malibu - pretty well loaded, with 1,700 miles on it. Cost offered to me at the time was $21,064 which seemed reasonable based on my research. I signed a purchase order with this price on it. However, I have really bad credit (1 prior repo and one that shows as a repo that is not) and I knew that even though I drove off the lot with it, I would be back to sign finance paperwork if the dealership could get me financed for that amount. I put down $3K cash and was given $1K for the piece of crap van.

    About 2 weeks later, I was on the dealerships website and found my car (VIN and all) with a selling price of $17,499. I called my salesman to complain. He said he would take care of it and that they had just found financing for me and that when I went to sign the papers that I would be pleasantly surprised at the price. This is where it starts to get sticky. I went to a local place to sign finance this time I am blindsided by the fact that I am not buying the car but leasing it. Once again I was desperate and could not be without a vehicle and quite frankly I loved the car. However, due to the fact that the finance guy focused entirely on the fact that this was a lease and also a lengthy discussion about how crappy my credit is, I did not notice the price (yes,very stupid I know). Signed papers quickly and was told that I could not keep copies of the paperwork and that they would mail them to me.

    3 weeks later, I get the papers and the price of the car had increased to $24,999. I pissed to say the least. I called the sales guy and he never called me back. At this point, I decided to drop the issue knowing that the odds were not in my favor as I had signed this contract with this outrageous price and quite frankly I am stressed enough between school, work and my child.

    Following week, I take the car in to another GM dealership as the "low coolant" light had been on (This other dealership is closer to my house and will shuttle me to work). Car was fixed with no problems. Fast forward to 3 weeks after that. I'm sitting in traffic in 90 degree Texas heat and the a/c cuts off. It does it several times over the course of 2-3 days. I take the car back to the second GM dealership and am told that the repairs are not covered under warranty as the damage is a result of a front end collision.

    Immediately, I go to the dealership I bought it from and they tell me that they ran a carfax report and that nothing came back and that they had their technician look at it and nothing is wrong. I almost lost it, but being in customer service I kept my cool. I argued with the service department for a good hour about the fact that something was really wrong with it. I talked to the Used car manager and he basically called me a liar. Bottom line, they called me a day later and agreed that there was a problem with the fuse in the lower fan and that it had to be replaced. They also advised me that the grill had been replaced but were at a loss to tell me why the grill might have been replaced if it was not in a collision.

    So now Im really upset that Ive been overcharged for a vehicle thats been in a collision. Thats when my salesman tells me that they sold the car to me for $14,999 (yes $10K less than what I am paying). They tell me to talk to the finance company about the price. I call the finance c ompany and they tell me that because my credit is so bad, that I had no choice but to finance with them and thatwhatever deal I had with the dealership is void since the dealership sold them the loan. This infuriates me further as I KNOW for a fact that had the dealership shopped the loan at the $14,999 price with me putting $4K total down, I would have been financed with Drive financial (I know this because before I bought the vehicle another dealership was putting together a deal for me with a car around the same price and they said Drive was going to finance for me. I chose the Chevy because it was a newer nicer car and I was willing to pay extra since it was newer and had significantly less miles). Anyway, dealership tells me theres nothing that they can do. I called the General Manager who never returned my calls.

    So, now Im upset because I'm paying $10,000 more than I should for a car that had been in a front end collision. So, my dad has worked for Mazda for 30 years as a shop foreman in NY and he tells me to call GM customer care. I call them and they call the dealership with me on the phone...they come back and tell me that not only had the grill been replaced, but the radiator, seatbelt, battery, both fans. I tell them that I am upset because there is no guarantee that if there is other damage that I am not aware of as a result of this collision, it will not be covered under warranty - not to mention that I would never have agreed to pay even $21,064 for a car that had been wrecked and that the value of the car is lower.

    So they asked me what I wanted from them. I'm a moron and I don't know, quite frankly I don't know what I'm entitled too. I just dont want to pay $10,000 more for a car that Im quite certain is going to have future problems (this is based on the track record so far and the fact that when I start the car it idles rough and once I thought it was going to die out). Anyone have any suggestions? People at work have told me that I need to ask for a replacement, but I don't know how that would work and what would prompt a dealership to do that?

  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,440
    It comes down to what the actual agreement said. The dealer said he sold the rights of first refusal, if that's the case and if that's what it says on the contract then the buyer is out of luck. But if they signed an agreement that mentions he can buy the car at Ford's MSRP then the buyer is right in this case and he should be able to buy the car at MSRP. So it comes down to whatever was said or written on the contract. If it was just a deposit with a receipt, with no specifics then I guess the courts have to decide on that. Here, verbal agreements can stand up in court too, I don't know about STL, so we'll just have to see what happens.

    boomchek: driven 10,000+ cars, sold 1000+ cars, owned 50+ cars

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 38,103
    First, blow on the keyboard. I think it is overheating!

    Anyway, sounds like quite a mess, and much game playing (at your expense) went on. Of course, buyer beware now what you're signing, and all that too lte good stuff.

    Anyway, if the dealer really is willing to make things right (or the pressure from GM, threat of legal action or bad pub, or whatever is effective), I would simply ask for a replacement Malibu (not previously wrecked), at the reasonable price it should go for, with normal financing. That frankly doesn't seem like an unreasonable request, since it is what you went in for (and they claimed to have given you).

    A replacement is also more likely than just unwinding your deal and giving you money back.

    In any case, good luck, and take more time to read contracts before you sign them in the future.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,440
    Wow I feel for you, that's a tough one. Anyways from what I've read it seems like it's the finance company that screwed you over more than the actual dealer itself. Dealers do sell finance contracts to finance companies, but I haven't heard of finance companies changing the price on the car. I think you should gather up all your paperwork that you have on this transaction and read through it carefully. If you have a contract or bill of sale from the dealership stating the agreed price BEFORE they sent it off to the finance company then you can check if the numbers don't add up. This way you can contact the finance company and show them that you bought the car at this price ($14999) and not $24999, and see if you can get an explanation from them why they changed the price. Then see if you can get the loan re written or changed. If you have sufficient and proper paperwork that you are charged $10k over what you agreed to pay then you may have a case against them. There should be consumer advocacy groups in your area that handle these kinds of things and may be willing to help you out free of charge IF you can somehow prove that that's really what has happened. As for your bad credit don't let that stop you or get you down, because bad credit doesn't mean that you have no rights as a consumer.

    As for the car being in accidents, maybe it's not as bad as it seems. If there's no carfax info on the car then maybe the previous owner had a single vehicle collision and it went unreported and they fixed it themselves by paying cash and not reporting it to insurance. If it would be something major,m like huge front end hit then it's very likely they would use an insurance company to fix the damage and so it would show on carfax. A lot of people choose to pay for repairs themselves to avoid their rates going up, so it is very likely that it could have been bumper and radiator damage and could have cost as little as $1000 to $2000 to fix. It could also have been a "projectile" (bird, rock, whatever) that flew through the grill (before you owned the car obviously) and hit the radiator (therefore the radiator coolant leak, replaced grill) that could have caused some of the problems you're experiencing.

    Either way if that's the case then the car is not really a wreck but has been in a minor incident. I am sure if you keep it for longer time you should not experience all these problems once they've been fixed but I can see you starting to hate the car because you think about all those things every time you get behind the wheel. Anyways I hope this helps a bit, and as for what you should do I can suggest if they have an exchange or money back policy, then go ahead and return the car PROVIDING they refund your full downpayment, etc. There is plenty of places that finance bad credit but make sure you read over the contract. Your other option is if the dealership asked you what they can do for you in this situation is tell them to straighten out the paperwork and rewrite the loan as it should be (if you still love the car), and fix your radiator free of charge, and the rough idling.

    Hope this helps a bit. Let us know how it turns out

    boomchek: driven 10,000+ cars, sold 1000+ cars, owned 50+ cars

  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    We had a guy come in today who had just picked up his brand new car from a different dealer apx 100 miles from us.....he is heading on a trip and the car starts making odd noises. He comes into our shop and we take a look at the car and the techs are a bit thing I know most of the techs are around the car and the top of the engine off... they can't believe what they have found....

    The new car had one piston that was a different size than all the rest....the car had never had any work done to it so it was built that way. How did the engine plant put in ONE wrong piston? It wasnt even close..LOL How did the car manage to drive 100 miles without tremendous damage??

    Prior to this the stangest mis-built car I had seen was a new Explorer that had cloth seats in the front and leather in the back. LOL Try to explain that to a customer.......
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    cloth seats in the front and leather in the back

    Sounds like an ok option for a dog lover actually! What make/model had the wrong piston in it?

    Steve, Host
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 24,842
    Would you share the brand of vehicle with the wrong piston!!!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Well here's the latest update:

    I do have a purcahse agreement that I signed that shows the purchase price is $21,064. I did call the finance company and ask why the price went up. They stated that because of my credit it doesnt matter what deal I made with the dealership because my credit sucks and they can do whatever they want and I didnt have a choice. The dealership showed me the purchase order that they have (that I never signed) with the price of $14,999. I asked them for a copy of it and they will not provide it to me. Do I have any rights to ask for this? I mean it would seem to me that if the dealership legitimately sold the deal to the finance company for $14,999, they would have no problem providing me a copy of that paperwork? I dont know how it works so I feel really inadequate.

    Regarding the damage, I contacted GM customer care and spoke with them and it seems that now everyone agrees that the car was in a front end collision (I have it in writing from the dealership that advised me of the problem). At this point, I have requested a replacement vehicle but am not holding my breath. GM customer care was very nice and stated that they would have to contact the dealership and also the area manager to see what was possible. They are to call me Monday with an update.

    Through my research, I have found that this dealeship has 19 complaints with the BBB in the last year, has had numerous complaints made to the Texas Attorney Generals office, and yet they still remain one of the biggest chevy dealerships in Texas. I wish I would have known this before I signed on the dotted line, but such is life. :cry:
  • capitanocapitano Posts: 509
    Does your area have a local station that does customer help segments? Here in Miami, we have "Help me, Howard." He helps by changing the value equation for the other parties. The threat of bad publicity in one of his segments is often good enough to get them to see the situation in a new light. Suddenly the value of sticking it to you is outweighed by the value of avoiding a bad segment on the news.

    Your situation sounds perfect for that approach. The finance company would not want to go on tape explaining why they have the right to charge you $10k more than you should have paid. Throw in the undisclosed accident and you've got a winner.
  • We have Marvin Zindler (who I swear is older than dirt but he sure has a lot of clout in this city), who everyone here in Houston knows...I emailed him last week and have not heard back. But yes, I agree that the bad publicity would not be something that the finance company or the dealership would want. I told GM that I would not take any further action until I heard back from them on Monday.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138

    steve....I kinda thought there could be a market for the leather/cloth interior...but the customer who ordered the car didnt quite feel the same way.
  • lex_koltlex_kolt Posts: 17

    I'm curious as to what is the relationship between what websites like KBB reports and to what will the dealer accept the car for? For example KBB will report $10,000 trade-in value for a used vehicle. What does that number mean? That I should get at least $10,000 or at most $10000? How much room for negotiation would I have?
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Posts: 1,110
    Those are a couple of good ones.
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,440
    Even though guides such as KBB are good in determining the range for trade in prices a lot if not most dealers go by market value, meaning how many models of that particular cars are on the used car market, if they've been selling well or not, and of course the actual condition of the trade in vehicle. If KBB says your vehicle is worth $10000 but there are tons of those particular models on the used car market, then the value will be less. If there are very few of those models on the market and they sell well then you might get more. But if the vehicle you're trading in needs new tires, timing belt, good tune up, has scratches or dings on it that need to be fixed, or if it has an accident history or high mileage, then obviously you won't get as much for it because the dealer will need to spend some money on reconditioning.

    boomchek: driven 10,000+ cars, sold 1000+ cars, owned 50+ cars

  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ... **at this time I am blind sided by the fact that I am not buying the car but leasing it.**

    I'm sorry to hear about all of your frustration .. I've read you post about 2 or 3 times and a lot of it doesn't make any sense (and it's still early) probably because of little knowledge on the subject - you "should have called Dad first" ... but anyway, there's no such thing as a lease on someone that is "credit challenged", it sounds like a balloon payment ...

    ** that I had no choice but to finance with them and that whatever deal I had with the dealership is void since the dealership sold them the loan**..

    Car dealers sell cars, and finance companies sell finance paper .. that means the lenders can't change the selling price, but they can load up the finance contract and bust you with points ... I didn't say it was nice, I just said what they can do ...

    **they come back and tell me that not only had the grill been replaced, but the radiator, seatbelt, battery, both fans.** ..

    "Sounds" like it might have been a rental with 1,700 miles, I can't say ... but no matter what, you should have been checking the vehicle out and now we have no warranty ....

    **They stated that because of my credit it doesnt matter what deal I made with the dealership because my credit sucks and they can do whatever they want and I didnt have a choice .. .......... No such thing, sounds like an "in house lender" ....

    1.) next time, check with Dad first .. he works at Mazda and you could get on the X plan - meaning, big discounts, big rebates, new car + new warranty ...

    2.) collect all of your paperwork, the contract, the first signings and all of the rest, everything you signed, including the copy of the warranty off the window .. if you don't have them, find them.

    3.) go to a body shop or wherever you were and get copies of the body work that was done .. pull a carfax and see what it says, then go to any GM dealer with the Vin# and pull the history and see what it might say.

    4.) find a "consumer" attorney in your area .. now I didn't say a "divorce" attorney, I said a "consumer" attorney and make an appointment and go over the deal with her/him with all of the paperwork and go from there. -- if nothing else they should get you a replacement, it's called an "exchange of collateral".

    Do I feel a bad for you.? .. yes.! ..... that said, you need to take a little responsibility for your own life - if you don't have time, then find time .. there's reasons and excuses and that's an excuse ...

    Good luck and let us know what happens .....

    Terry :)
  • gogiboygogiboy Posts: 732
    "I found a 2005 malibu - pretty well loaded, with 1,700 miles...About 2 weeks later, I was on the dealerships website and found my car (VIN and all) with a selling price of $17,499."

    Maybe the low miles are of some help, but it still seems like you are being gouged to me. I found the following three '05 Malibus listed in the Tulsa paper:

    '05 Malibu, factory warranty, must see, $13,811. D...Dodge

    '05 Malibu, loaded, save thousands. 13,998

    '05 Malibu, Low Miles, $10,788, Keystone...

    These are, after all, just Malibus and are readily available on the used market. I'm in OK so the pricing shouldn't be that different from Texas. Thus even $17.5K looks a little high. The 97-99s are one of the lowest rated vehicles on and they are not recommended by Consumer Reports as a good used vehicle. Perhaps GM has resolved the issues with the undersized brakes/rotors and faulty head gaskets on the newer model(s).


    Hope you can get this resolved
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Posts: 1,828
    The 2005s have been completely redesigned and are much better vehicles than the 97-99 which are less than impressive. I do not think that reliability of a model 6-8 years ago is an accuate reflection of current models.
  • archmikearchmike Posts: 1
    Please help me decide what to have fixed in two cars I want to trade-in on a new car.

    1991 Honda Accord EX
    - muffler, pipes, hangers,etc (muffler fell off) $320
    - left front axle "bad" (boot torn) $190
    - right front window (power) is "off track" so can't be opened without "falling $?
    - paint "de-laminated"
    - radio/cassette is "lose" (not bolted in completely) but works fine

    1995 GMC Jimmy
    - runs very rough (probably chronic EGR valve needs clean or replace)
    - minor dent in rear bumper
    - two "buttons" on ceiling console broken (garage door opener, sunglass holder compartment)
    - not current with state safety inspection (It should pass -- it just hasn't been on the road for a couple months) or license plate

    In particular, does it even make sense to take a car in for a trade without a muffler
    or without a current license plate?
  • typhon1991typhon1991 Posts: 64
    if you are planning on trading them in to a new car dealer judging by their age, they will probablly be wholesaled and not reconditioned for resale on the lot. If you fix them, you will never get your money back that you spent repairing them. Just take the cost of repair into account when you are told what your trades are worth. As far as the license plate, that dosen't matter if you are trading, just be worried about the legal issues that could arise if you get pulled over. You may want to have someone follow you.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 159,885
    If you are trading them, don't put a dime into them...

    Because.. I'm estimating the total trade value for both vehicles is right around...


    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    I am not trying to bash your cars by any means - but if I were in your shoes, I would go to a scrap yard and get an estimate as to how much they would give you for both cars "as-is" before you go to the car dealer. Then, you would at least have another option for getting rid of the cars instead of just relying on what ever the dealer offers you. If the scrap yard offers you $1000 for both, and the best the dealer will do is $500 for both, then just sell them to the scrap yard, and use that money towards the new car.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 38,103
    If you were going to sell privately, then I would fix the big stuff. Or, disclose everything you know, and hope someone that is mechanically inclined wants them.

    The Jimmy can go as is, but will fetch much more if you get it tuned so it runs decently.

    THe honda, fix the muffler and boots, and try to do something with the window. Even ratty old Hondas can bring some decent money. FOrget about the paint.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 27,778
    I can't believe some folks are saying the accord is worth scrap. Now, granted, that MAY be IF it has an absurd number of miles. But, really, have you SEEN what used (and even overused) Hondas sell for?

    If your miles are not that high, there is NO WAY you should trade that in. LIke stickguy said, fix the major stuff, and I'm pretty sure you are going to get a pretty penny for at least the Accord (although more info would be very helpful).

    As far as the Jimmy, unlike the Honda, high miles will kill it, but if its a 4x4 in the snowbelt, folks will line up to buy it from you.

    '03 F250 7.3, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 52-car history and counting!

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 159,885
    Well.. I don't think it is scrap... But, if you try to trade it, you will get a scrap price for it.. I wouldn't put a penny into it, if trading..

    Sure, if you put $600 into it, you might get $1500 out of it on a private sale.. It doesn't sound like the kind of car that people are getting $2500-$3000 for...

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • lawgradlawgrad Posts: 2
    I have recently graduated from law school & I have about $100K in student loans from undergrad & law school. The loans are not yet in repayment. Are these loans (1) affecting my credit score; and (2) will this affect me getting financed? I owe less that $800 in credit card debt (or any other debt for that matter). I DESPERATELY need a car. Please help. Thanks
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Posts: 1,828
    Yes, they will have some impact on your credit score. After all, a portion of your income each month will need to be earmarked for repayment of the loans and that is money, quite frankly, that cannot be applied to a car note.

    I would strongly recommend that you buy something very reasonably priced under $10k so that you are not financially strained as you start out in practice.

    Whew, 100k. That is a lot.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 38,103
    Doesn't seem so bad if you land a job with a big city firm and make almost that much to start.

    Of course, that still = about minimum hourly wage!

    Sorry, back to the topic...

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Posts: 1,828
    But I am thinking about all of those people who attend the University of Illinois Law School (etc.), rack up 100k in debt, and end up in the Cook County Public Defender's Office making 35k. You are buried for the rest of your natural life.

    But if you start at $130k at a Michigan Ave. law firm, I see your point. Of course, then you live in the city and don't need the car.

    Unfortunately, I know of a handful in each category ...
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    But I am thinking about all of those people who attend the University of Illinois Law School (etc.), rack up 100k in debt, and end up in the Cook County Public Defender's Office making 35k. You are buried for the rest of your natural life.

    I think he means that even if you end up at a top notch law firm, you bill about 75-100 hours per week as an associate. $100K per year at 75 hours a week is about $25/hour.

    The life of an associate is no life at all.
  • bcb1bcb1 Posts: 149
    But I am thinking about all of those people who attend the University of Illinois Law School (etc.), rack up 100k in debt, and end up in the Cook County Public Defender's Office making 35k. You are buried for the rest of your natural life.

    I think he means that even if you end up at a top notch law firm, you bill about 75-100 hours per week as an associate. $100K per year at 75 hours a week is about $25/hour.

    The life of an associate is no life at all.

    You've gotta be kidding me! Why would anyone with even a handful of functioning brain cells take a $35K per year job when they spent $100K in school loans? Holy cow, maybe they should have taken a remedial math course. That just doesn't add up on my cal-que-later :confuse:

    Someone with a law degree, even if its from BF university could always go to work for uncle sugar, start at a GS-9 or GS-11 and within a year or two they'd be a GS-12 or GS-13, making in the 60's or 70's at the least.

    Or, they can slave away in a pubic (ooops, I mean public) defenders office, make 35K, eat bologna sandwiches, live in a 1-room basement apartment and drive a 1982 rusted vw rabbit. Yeah, you betcha.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Posts: 1,828
    ***You've gotta be kidding me! Why would anyone with even a handful of functioning brain cells take a $35K per year job when they spent $100K in school loans?***

    Why do people run up $80k in undergraduate debt and get an art degree? So they can run a McDonalds.(g)

    Hey, the PD office is unionized in Cook County so the numbers are readily available to the public.

    Either way, if you are fresh out of law school with a boat load of debt and working 75-100 hours a week, why not buy something cheap as you will not have the time to enjoy it??

    For the record, half of my attorney friends are living La Vita Dolce and the others are well, scraping by. There seems to be little middle ground.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,098
    Off-topic, folks.


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  • mpassmpass Posts: 17
    I am in the market for a CPO Acura. The current rate from Acura is 3.9/60 mo. which is the best rate out there. I would like to fill out a dealer's online pre-approval form so that I (a) know if I have the good financing and (b) don't spend hours upon hours in the dealership when I go to buy. Is this a good idea? Are there risks to "showing my cards" before I walk in the door since they will know the amount I am qualified for and, perhaps, willing to pay?

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 38,103
    Interesting perspective on why not to do it. Kinda like dressing in old clothes so they don't think you are rich!

    Actually, I'm not even sure the salespeople would know that you had applied unless you tell them. In any case, I don't think they will try to charge you more (or, they will ask for more same as with anyone else, but won't be any more likely to refuse to negotiate) because you have good credit.

    Look at the flip side, If they know you are qualified and can afford the car, they are more likely to work with you, since they sure don't want to let you out the door to go buy elsewhere! Now, if they have no idea if you are a credit rat, they might not be quite as interested in spending time haggling with you.

    Just figure out what you are willing to pay, and make them an offer. be clear that you are preapproved and ready to buy RIGHT NOW, otherwise you are going to Bobst on down to the next dealer, and you should be on the done board real quick.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    ...for a luxury dealership. The margins are so good I'd have to believe that they would have their pick of experienced salespeople.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    I get very leery of a high end franchise that is looking for "green peas" (term for new salespeople).....Tradionally the stores that run these types of ad's turn over alot of help. That is never a good sign. It will be a good experience to go and see what's up....but be cautious.

    If you were buying a $70K car do you want to deal with somebody who has no experience and no knowledge of the products??
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 159,885
    Or.... they use the BMW dealership as the hook.. but after the interview, tell you that you really aren't qualified for that, or all of those positions are filled.... "But, we can put you out front of a Toyota dealership with 10 other greenpeas all wearing our nifty blue polo shirts!!"

    Good luck!

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

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  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ......... My Ex (or is she my ex ex.?) was a "head hunter" for years .... material handling, computer software, transport management, sales, you name it ....

    The real good ones will talk an owner into getting the best qualified for the position (how do you think I met her .l.o.l.) and most of the time they're pushing someone that can't really do the job or they are better qualified for something else ....

    Good managers or a good owner wants to see and talk with the "goods" personally, and make up their own mind, especially a Bimmer dealer .... I doubt it's Toyota, but like someone kinda mentioned, they're usually trying to line you up in a vast market for any type of sales, ya know like copiers or selling pest supplies because there's a big commission involved "somewhere" ... good dealers don't use them, and if they are, you can usually "backdoor" the head hunters if you can find the name ...... but like a said, good stores that are very fair with their employee's don't have a need or a want for them ---- and no, I didn't use her business service either ......... :P

  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    "If you were buying a $70K car do you want to deal with somebody who has no experience and no knowledge of the products??"

    Sure, I am happy to buy any product from an ignorant, inexperienced sales person as long as it is the product I want.
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Posts: 544
    Good points guys, their website does say they handle lots of dealers...

    Anyways, I'm reposting; my original post was deleted because I forgot to X out the phone number, looks like we lost a couple other posts too..

    If anybody else wants to chime in...

    *** "I responded to this ad recently:


    Our vehicles are the Ultimate Driving Machine. What we need from you is to be the Ultimate Selling Machine.

    We do not require previous sales experience. However, excellent verbal skills, a stable employment history and impeccable references are a given. A BMW salesperson should have integrity which is beyond reproach and a track record of success.

    Please call Evelyn in our office to arrange a confidential interview with our sales recuiter. Evelyn can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx."

    I called and she was very nice; she stated she works for a company called DealerSTAFF which does nothing but interview for car dealers. I found their website HERE . She stated they are conducting interviews in my area on Tuesday at 7, and if I am hired they will place me at a client dealership closest to my home (?)

    My question is: have any of you ever had any experience with this process, either on the applicant or employer side? This is the first time I have seen such an application process for a car dealership." ***

    So it sounds like they'll probably offer me a job at an undesireable dealership? Maybe one that has high turnover or more salespeople than customers?
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 12,383
    Bought a brand new '05 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 this past weekend. It had a total of 7 miles on it. I put about 100 miles on it since then.

    Yesterday, I was in the local grocery store parking lot looking for a parking space. Never drove more than about 10 MPH while there. When I finally found a spot, I hit the brakes to pull into a slot. Brake pedal goes to the floor and the truck keeps rolling.

    Long and short of the story, I had two choices. Plow into another parked car, drive through the door of the Krogers, or look for a concrete block "stopper" to (hopefully) bring the truck to a halt with no damage. I was able to find an empty space. Front tires hit and went over the concrete blocks. The rear tires did not and I indeed came to a complete stop. This all happened within seconds. Once I got the truck to a complete stop. I started it back up. Eventually, I was able to "pump" the brake pedal to get pressure, but it was, at best, weak.

    The only damage was to the rear alloy wheel.

    Aside from being pretty scary when you end up with no brakes, any thoughts as to what to do in this scenario? I reported the incident to the Toyota dealership. They towed the Tacoma. Should I push to get another truck since this one has only 100 miles and having no brakes is a safety issue? Is this even feasible? I'm certainly not comfortable considering if this had happened on the highway, or any road, travelling at higher speeds, the results would have been a disaster. My faith is more than a little shaken with this vehicle.

    Right now, I'm a little "gun shy" with the Tacoma....particularly given the fact I bought it under the premise that I wouldn't experience any such issues.
    2019 Kia Stinger GT2
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