Is this the correct forum to post complaints to, about salespeople and dealerships? I may never buy another car from a dealership again, because of the crap I have been dished out in the last 3 weeks. I have even contacted the BBB in my area, and now a dealer I had problems with, has altered their newspaper ads, which leads me to think I may have a lawsuit.... Please let me know which forum to post to. :mad:
First of all, I have learned that when you sit in a salespersons office, keep your mouth shut, don't talk when he/she leaves, about anything. I have a brother who is a GM employee, and I would like to get a new vehicle because of a handicap I have, and I did my homework on my present vehicle, a '99 Grand Voyager, which yesterday reached 100000 miles. I wanted to trade for another vehicle, because my disability makes it hard for ME to sell privately. My husband and I were jokingly talking about a bet I have with my brother about finally buying a GM vehicle, while the salesman was out looking at our van. He came back in, and said he could not find one single thing wrong with the van, it is in pristine condition, even excellent in his opinion, he wished more could come in that way, on and on, then he offered me $2500.00, because I would be buying a vehicle "wholesale",(per GM's "great" deals now, therefore I could only get "wholesale" for my van. Trade in via KBB on my van, is $4775.00, at my mileage, in GOOD condition. But, what really got me, was when I was waiting for this guy to come back to the office, I went to the bathroom, and on my way past an office full of salespeople, I could hear my husband coughing, over an intercom. The creep had his phone intercom on, and we were listened to, while we were alone.... This is the last straw. When we left, another one of the guys said, well, looks like her brother owes her dinner, she didn't buy, which was the bet I had with my brother, which the salespeople could only have heard from their spying.
I had a bait and switch with a dealer we have dealt with for the past 13 years, but this thing that happened yesterday is what really has ticked us off....I will tell more, about the bait and switch, which I grabbed the paperwork on, if this is the correct forum.
I understand your frustration. Best thing to do is to put it behind you. Go to another dealer and give them your business. Don't bless the dealer you described with your money.
Outside of that, there's really nothing you can do.
mldj....the only person at the dealership who really gave me any negative feeling was the Service Manager. The whole scenario probably could have been resolved in half the time if it wasn't for his pushback I believe he had a vested interest in putting the Tacoma back into my hands (rightfully or wrongfully). I don't know if he's compensated to "fix it once", but if I were in the business, I'd certainly be more willing to fix something rather than take it back.
My only frustration was with him. He and his tech said there was something amiss with the brakes, but couldn't replicate my exact experience. Yet, they were way too willing to let the truck go out of their garage with a potentially deadly saftety issue. I've already let the dealer principal know of my displeasure with their nonchalance.
The rest of the dealership personnel were very accomodating as was the Toyota Region people.
.. ** he offered me $2500.00, because I would be buying a vehicle "wholesale",(per GM's "great" deals now, therefore I could only get "wholesale" for my van. Trade in via KBB on my van, is $4775.00, at my mileage, in GOOD condition** ...
Well .. I can see someone is on a roll this morning ....
1.) This is a simple case of: "I got my feelings hurt" - period ..... books don't buy cars, dealers buy cars and they usually base that on auction reports and the "Black Book" .... I posted over at RWTV that it might "could" be worth the high teens, low $2's .. at $2,500 the dealer is working hard to get your business -- whats he going to do with it, except run it off to the auction.? .. it's not like 25 people a week come looking for a 100,000 mile Voyager, or any 100k van for that matter ..l.o.l.... .. so figure the transport $150, detail $120, auction fee $150 and probably a $50 Rep fee, so figure the dealer will probably have $3 grand in it before it hits the chute .... so what's it worth.?
2.) as far as "Dealer's Walls have ears" .. more and more dealers are using intercoms for "their" protection so folks don't come back 2 days later and say: "the salesman said xxxxxxxxxxxx" ........ not much different than Bank of America or Home Depot can read emails and phone calls at work.
Now in your particular situation, I can't say because I wasn't there ... if you feel uncomfortable, then look for another dealer -- but I have a funny stupid feeling if they would have given you $4,500 for your $2,500 van, we wouldn't be having this discussion ....
This is what they are doing in "real money":
04/27/2005 MINNEAP $ 3,400 109,612 GREEN 6G A X MW 05/11/2005 DALLAS $ 1,200 117,438 PURPLE 6G A SW 05/25/2005 NADE $ 2,350 159,216 GREEN 6G NE
....the only person at the dealership who really gave me any negative feeling was the Service Manager...
yep...I did get that sense from reading some of your posts...
It is kind of funny though...I have been to some dealerships where the service dept. and sales dept. seemed to be at war with each other...I realize they are two different operations in a dealership, but they all work for the same company...in this case Toyota...
Let's put it this way...If I was the owner of that dealership I would make sure everybody got along and worked as a team to complete the goal of selling and maintaining the best vehicles we can...and at some dealerships I feel that is not the case...I guess when it is all said and done it comes down to $$$$... The Service Manager is not going to make any if he keeps meesing around with your truck...
I'm glad it all worked out in the end...but for me when I walk into a dealership my guard automatically goes up...just like radar...force of habit I guess....
> 2.) as far as "Dealer's Walls have ears" .. more and more dealers are using intercoms for "their" protection so folks don't come back 2 days later and say: "the salesman said xxxxxxxxxxxx"
I understand that you are saying it's okay for the conversation in the buyer's location to monitored even when the salesman is NOT present and WITHOUT the knowledge of the buyers that it's being monitored (the salesman knows it's monitored).
I disagree if that's what you meant to say. The buyer has reasonable expectation of privacy for conversation between themselves when the salesman is not present.
From a legal viewpoint (not that I am a Lawyer), the customer does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy. However, it is just tacky to joke about something heard while easedropping. I never assume that my conversations are private at someone elses place of business. Heck, many dealers do not even have offices for the sales staff.
But, if you are not comfortable, you are doing everyone a favor by walking.
I believe this problem of "bugging" the client's location so the salesman could listen to their personal discussion about negotiations and other things had already gone through a court, long ago. Don't remember the result.
But if you leave me in a room or partitioned area alone with my wife and we are not in the presence of others, I certainly expect to not have a "bug" transmitting my conversation. I would certainly pursue the idea that laws have been broken. I was on a jury last week and I suspect everyone on the jury would think the same way about the idea of reasonable belief of privacy having been violated.
I hope rroyce will comment. He certainly knows what has happened in the past with this.
> I don't have private conversations in car dealer offices... Contrary to popular opinion, I'm not an idiot..
I certainly hope you're not saying someone wanting to discuss their next offer or walk decision with their wife should get up and leave the showroom to discuss that choice and if they don't they're an idiot?
ky....there was a "B" grade movie out several years ago with Robin Williams. He worked at a car dealership that was attacked by someone (can't remember the reason why, though).
I'm getting a mental image of you attacking said dealership after being "wiretapped".......
I certainly hope you're not saying someone wanting to discuss their next offer or walk decision with their wife should get up and leave the showroom to discuss that choice and if they don't they're an idiot?
I'd say yes to that. While you are in the office or the cubbie, you have no control. Walk outside, get a breath of fresh air, and think/talk things out there.
Way longer than several years. It was called Cadillac Man. The perpetrator was played by Tim Robbins, and the reason was that Robin Williams was sleeping with Tim Robbins' wife (who also worked at the dealership).
I need a life.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I hate Robin Williams. But that moving was an interesting movie, although a little overdone in spots. Only thing where I could tolerate Robin Williams... Good movie.
He was so great as that Genie guy! Just bugging you. To each his own.
Just to stay on topic, I have a question:
Lately I've heard the term 'late model used car' used for 8, 9, 10 year old cars. I have always thought 'late model' meant 'newer' , like 2 or 3 years old.
Am I wrong, or are other people bonkers? (well I know other people are bonkers, but...)
It must have been a long time ago that I saw the movie (VHS?). I do remember it was funny in parts. Didn't remember Tim Robbins at all, but he must have been real young.
I do remember the dealership getting torn up at the end by the antagonist (Robbins).
I'll have to have a couple of glasses of Woodford and rent it for another viewing (not in that order).
"2.) as far as "Dealer's Walls have ears" .. more and more dealers are using intercoms for "their" protection so folks don't come back 2 days later and say: "the salesman said xxxxxxxxxxxx" ........ not much different than Bank of America or Home Depot can read emails and phone calls at work. "
Cmon, Terry, that's sneaky. To broadcast a conversation when the sales person is out of the room? At least when I call BofA, they tell me the call may be recorded. This is underhanded, and not just covering their tushy, it's to give the dealer an edge up, so they can know what the customer's bottom line is.
When our New Beetle was inspected, the lack of service didn't count against us (at least, in the respect that we would have been charged for it had we not had it done), just was an observation as to the thoroughness of the inspector.
Actually looks like a screaming deal to me. From what I can see it's somewhere around $300-$500 UNDER invoice. Take it and run! Nice job. Processing fee seems a bit high, and maybe that's why they're doing it, but even factoring that in, you're still pretty close to invoice.
For the past hour, I've been reading posts on this forum- i gotta say it's nice to see both sides.
We all agree that consumers are very price concious when it comes to buying cars. and then there are consumers who want "more service" from their dealer. I don't think you can always expect both from a dealer. so why not have 2 kinds of dealers- one we'll call walmart- you go in get your car and get out- but you get nothing other than a cheap price. If you have a problem with the car, you take it up with the manufacturer. maybe these lots will have "popular" cars- but not necesarily lots of variety. just a streamlined operation- go online, pick from a few popular choices, go pick up the car.
Then you can have the more traditional dealers- you can custom order a car, they give your great service, they go to bat for you if anything goes wrong, give you a loaner car, maybe they even kiss your "youknowwhat" to make you feel good. you could still negotiate, but with the understanding that you'd never get the walmart price.
It seems like in an effort to meet the price demands of customers, some dealers are skimping on service. I'd gladly pay a little more to keep the money local and in return get more respect. I'm currently waiting of a highlander hybrid and the salesman I have now is just dismissive because he knows I'm going to buy this car. I used to deal with a great salesman for my other cars, but he quit. I feel like I should just go to another dealer if I'm going to be treated like sh- er I mean poo poo.
one we'll call walmart- you go in get your car and get out- but you get nothing other than a cheap price. If you have a problem with the car, you take it up with the manufacturer.
So you mean call 1-800-GM-BROKEN (leave off the N for never gonna happen) if there's an issue? Then where do they go?
Oh yeah, they go visit the other guy:
Then you can have the more traditional dealers
...the one Mr. Gotta Get It Chaep dismissed just to get the good price. "Oh you need warranty work. Let's see now, we have an opening in 6 weeks but that's subject to automatic bumping by customers who bought from us." "But I can't wait six weeks." "Should've thought of that earlier sir."
Some customers want a lot of service. They want their hand held throughout the transaction and deal with a knowledgeable salesman. They want someone there who can answer every question. However, all that costs money and it is generally reflected in a higher price.
There are some of us who are price oriented. Sure, we want information but realize that we can get information off of the internet, off of Edmunds, off the manufacturer's website and from a variety of other sources. We go into a dealership knowing exactly what we want and what we should pay for it based on our research. We want to unbundle the cost of the product from all of the sales costs related to Customer A.
.. **C'mon, Terry, that's sneaky. To broadcast a conversation when the sales person is out of the room?** ....
I wasn't there (and either were you) so I don't know what the situation was .. if it was a private conversation, then it should remain exactly that - a private conversation .. if it was a sneaky BS thing, then I would be looking for another dealer ...
Does anyone have any information if the 2006 Civic Hybrids will have a moonroof option? Also, will they be continuing those great colors into the regular Civic line?
Dealerships make more money servicing cars than they make selling a new car, usually. The days of "you ddn't buy it here so we're not going to service it here (or we're going to make you wait weeks for service)" are long gone.
I bought my new car out of state. Naturally, dealer required service will be performed locally. They will gladly accept the business. If they balk, all I need to do is complain to the manufacturer. Then the dealer has a problem.
Since I'm living vicariously through others buying cars (I'm banned from the car lots) what's this one worth:
1998 VW Jetta (GL I think?) 2.0L 5-speed, not sure of the miles, so let's say average, I believe its black/tan. Anyway, kid I know wants to buy it. Agreed upon price was $6150, dealer called back 5 mins later and said they had to have $6550 due to ordering headlight lenses for the car. I told him to call the dealer back and offer $6350 with the parts. Not sure what happened.
I really need to get a life or something.........LOL. :P
..... **not sure of the miles, so let's say average, I believe its black/tan.** ...
Average like how many white houses there might be in Alaska.? average as in baseball.? average, as in how much the average 27 year old female should weigh ..?
hmmm, what does average "really" mean .................?
...."They will gladly accept the business. If they balk, all I need to do is complain to the manufacturer. Then the dealer has a problem.
Dealers are independantly owned and run. The manufacturer has much less control over a dealership than most consumers realize....If a dealer doesnt want a customer there is almost nothing the mfg can do about it other than tell the customer to find another dealer.
" I wasn't there (and either were you) so I don't know what the situation was .. if it was a private conversation, then it should remain exactly that - a private conversation .. if it was a sneaky BS thing, then I would be looking for another dealer ... "
I was there in spirit.
I was just going on what was reported. I know that sometimes people come here and have skewed perceptions of what actually went on, and folks willing to give car dealers the benefit of the doubt are about as common as responsible parents who let their kids have a sleepover at Neverland Ranch.
If you record or broadcast someone's conversation and don't tell them you're doing it, for whatever the reason (ensuring there is no comeback, etc), it's sneaky. That's my point. You seemed willing to defend the practice, also not knowing what was going on there, providing a possible reason why someone would do it. I was just saying even given that reason, it was underhanded.
.. **folks willing to give car dealers the benefit of the doubt are about as common as responsible parents who let their kids have a sleep over at Neverland Ranch** ......... ....l..o..l......
Yeah, and what was up with that ...? I wouldn't let my kids sleep over my own Uncles house ... and he's been dead for 5 years ....
We video and record all transactions in the finance office and service drive....We also have big signs stating so.......I think recording private conversations in a sales office is outrageous and sleazy if the folks are not aware..
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Outside of that, there's really nothing you can do.
My only frustration was with him. He and his tech said there was something amiss with the brakes, but couldn't replicate my exact experience. Yet, they were way too willing to let the truck go out of their garage with a potentially deadly saftety issue. I've already let the dealer principal know of my displeasure with their nonchalance.
The rest of the dealership personnel were very accomodating as was the Toyota Region people.
Well .. I can see someone is on a roll this morning ....
1.) This is a simple case of: "I got my feelings hurt" - period ..... books don't buy cars, dealers buy cars and they usually base that on auction reports and the "Black Book" .... I posted over at RWTV that it might "could" be worth the high teens, low $2's .. at $2,500 the dealer is working hard to get your business -- whats he going to do with it, except run it off to the auction.? .. it's not like 25 people a week come looking for a 100,000 mile Voyager, or any 100k van for that matter ..l.o.l.... .. so figure the transport $150, detail $120, auction fee $150 and probably a $50 Rep fee, so figure the dealer will probably have $3 grand in it before it hits the chute .... so what's it worth.?
2.) as far as "Dealer's Walls have ears" .. more and more dealers are using intercoms for "their" protection so folks don't come back 2 days later and say: "the salesman said xxxxxxxxxxxx" ........ not much different than Bank of America or Home Depot can read emails and phone calls at work.
Now in your particular situation, I can't say because I wasn't there ... if you feel uncomfortable, then look for another dealer -- but I have a funny stupid feeling if they would have given you $4,500 for your $2,500 van, we wouldn't be having this discussion ....
This is what they are doing in "real money":
04/27/2005 MINNEAP $ 3,400 109,612 GREEN 6G A X MW
05/11/2005 DALLAS $ 1,200 117,438 PURPLE 6G A SW
05/25/2005 NADE $ 2,350 159,216 GREEN 6G NE
I hope this helps ..........................
Terry.
yep...I did get that sense from reading some of your posts...
It is kind of funny though...I have been to some dealerships where the service dept. and sales dept. seemed to be at war with each other...I realize they are two different operations in a dealership, but they all work for the same company...in this case Toyota...
Let's put it this way...If I was the owner of that dealership I would make sure everybody got along and worked as a team to complete the goal of selling and maintaining the best vehicles we can...and at some dealerships I feel that is not the case...I guess when it is all said and done it comes down to $$$$...
The Service Manager is not going to make any if he keeps meesing around with your truck...
I'm glad it all worked out in the end...but for me when I walk into a dealership my guard automatically goes up...just like radar...force of habit I guess....
Enjoy your 4Runner!
I understand that you are saying it's okay for the conversation in the buyer's location to monitored even when the salesman is NOT present and WITHOUT the knowledge of the buyers that it's being monitored (the salesman knows it's monitored).
I disagree if that's what you meant to say. The buyer has reasonable expectation of privacy for conversation between themselves when the salesman is not present.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But, if you are not comfortable, you are doing everyone a favor by walking.
But if you leave me in a room or partitioned area alone with my wife and we are not in the presence of others, I certainly expect to not have a "bug" transmitting my conversation. I would certainly pursue the idea that laws have been broken. I was on a jury last week and I suspect everyone on the jury would think the same way about the idea of reasonable belief of privacy having been violated.
I hope rroyce will comment. He certainly knows what has happened in the past with this.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Legal or not, mayhem would follow...
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But, if I catch someone doing it.... :mad:
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I certainly hope you're not saying someone wanting to discuss their next offer or walk decision with their wife should get up and leave the showroom to discuss that choice and if they don't they're an idiot?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm getting a mental image of you attacking said dealership after being "wiretapped".......
I understand about being monitored.. I'm at work right now... so...
But, when someone is monitoring my conversation, for the express purpose of enriching themselves at my expense... that crosses the line...
And, to be more direct.. Yes, you should take any "private" conversations outside... I do.. (although, I try to leave the wife at home).
regards,
kyfdx
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I'd say yes to that. While you are in the office or the cubbie, you have no control. Walk outside, get a breath of fresh air, and think/talk things out there.
It was called Cadillac Man. The perpetrator was played by Tim Robbins, and the reason was that Robin Williams was sleeping with Tim Robbins' wife (who also worked at the dealership).
I need a life.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
LOL
Ken
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just bugging you. To each his own.
Just to stay on topic, I have a question:
Lately I've heard the term 'late model used car' used for 8, 9, 10 year old cars. I have always thought 'late model' meant 'newer' , like 2 or 3 years old.
Am I wrong, or are other people bonkers?
(well I know other people are bonkers, but...)
Late model is supposed to mean just a couple of years old.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I do remember the dealership getting torn up at the end by the antagonist (Robbins).
I'll have to have a couple of glasses of Woodford and rent it for another viewing (not in that order).
Cmon, Terry, that's sneaky. To broadcast a conversation when the sales person is out of the room? At least when I call BofA, they tell me the call may be recorded. This is underhanded, and not just covering their tushy, it's to give the dealer an edge up, so they can know what the customer's bottom line is.
base: $13,900
destination: $515
prep fee: $425
financing: 3.9% for 48 months
??
Thanks
Steve
Automatic
Ken
Toyotaken
We all agree that consumers are very price concious when it comes to buying cars. and then there are consumers who want "more service" from their dealer. I don't think you can always expect both from a dealer. so why not have 2 kinds of dealers- one we'll call walmart- you go in get your car and get out- but you get nothing other than a cheap price. If you have a problem with the car, you take it up with the manufacturer. maybe these lots will have "popular" cars- but not necesarily lots of variety. just a streamlined operation- go online, pick from a few popular choices, go pick up the car.
Then you can have the more traditional dealers- you can custom order a car, they give your great service, they go to bat for you if anything goes wrong, give you a loaner car, maybe they even kiss your "youknowwhat" to make you feel good. you could still negotiate, but with the understanding that you'd never get the walmart price.
It seems like in an effort to meet the price demands of customers, some dealers are skimping on service. I'd gladly pay a little more to keep the money local and in return get more respect. I'm currently waiting of a highlander hybrid and the salesman I have now is just dismissive because he knows I'm going to buy this car. I used to deal with a great salesman for my other cars, but he quit. I feel like I should just go to another dealer if I'm going to be treated like sh- er I mean poo poo.
So you mean call 1-800-GM-BROKEN (leave off the N for never gonna happen) if there's an issue? Then where do they go?
Oh yeah, they go visit the other guy:
Then you can have the more traditional dealers
...the one Mr. Gotta Get It Chaep dismissed just to get the good price. "Oh you need warranty work. Let's see now, we have an opening in 6 weeks but that's subject to automatic bumping by customers who bought from us." "But I can't wait six weeks." "Should've thought of that earlier sir."
Nice idea but it's never gonna happen.
Some customers want a lot of service. They want their hand held throughout the transaction and deal with a knowledgeable salesman. They want someone there who can answer every question. However, all that costs money and it is generally reflected in a higher price.
There are some of us who are price oriented. Sure, we want information but realize that we can get information off of the internet, off of Edmunds, off the manufacturer's website and from a variety of other sources. We go into a dealership knowing exactly what we want and what we should pay for it based on our research. We want to unbundle the cost of the product from all of the sales costs related to Customer A.
Terry.
I wasn't there (and either were you) so I don't know what the situation was .. if it was a private conversation, then it should remain exactly that - a private conversation .. if it was a sneaky BS thing, then I would be looking for another dealer ...
Terry.
33,500
thats about 400 under invoice
Good deal?
I also was a bit perplexed at a 2000 consumer rebate that consumer reports says on its website, however, dealers deny it.
Should I wait till the new 06's start coming around and bid on the old 05's?
thanks
yassy
I bought my new car out of state. Naturally, dealer required service will be performed locally. They will gladly accept the business. If they balk, all I need to do is complain to the manufacturer. Then the dealer has a problem.
1998 VW Jetta (GL I think?) 2.0L 5-speed, not sure of the miles, so let's say average, I believe its black/tan. Anyway, kid I know wants to buy it. Agreed upon price was $6150, dealer called back 5 mins later and said they had to have $6550 due to ordering headlight lenses for the car. I told him to call the dealer back and offer $6350 with the parts. Not sure what happened.
I really need to get a life or something.........LOL. :P
Average like how many white houses there might be in Alaska.? average as in baseball.? average, as in how much the average 27 year old female should weigh ..?
hmmm, what does average "really" mean .................?
Terry
Oh... must be that Alaska exchange rate.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm guessing a '98 Jetta would be too expensive to own, if they gave it to you..
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Dealers are independantly owned and run. The manufacturer has much less control over a dealership than most consumers realize....If a dealer doesnt want a customer there is almost nothing the mfg can do about it other than tell the customer to find another dealer.
I was there in spirit.
I was just going on what was reported. I know that sometimes people come here and have skewed perceptions of what actually went on, and folks willing to give car dealers the benefit of the doubt are about as common as responsible parents who let their kids have a sleepover at Neverland Ranch.
If you record or broadcast someone's conversation and don't tell them you're doing it, for whatever the reason (ensuring there is no comeback, etc), it's sneaky. That's my point. You seemed willing to defend the practice, also not knowing what was going on there, providing a possible reason why someone would do it. I was just saying even given that reason, it was underhanded.
Yeah, and what was up with that ...? I wouldn't let my kids sleep over my own Uncles house ... and he's been dead for 5 years ....
Terry.
Why would you think that would be necessary?