Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

basscadet

Wouldn't you rather pay a bit more to have peace of mind from what you buy? Then again, does Safety really sell in America?

I can tell you from much experience that safety does NOT sell in America.

The customers I have that are shopping for minivans never, ever request features like side air bags or curtain air bags. Customers are much more interested in DVD players or leather. It just shows you the mindset of many of the customers out there.

basscadet

Of course it's a better deal. They're getting a more expensive car with more options for the same payment. That's a car they'll get more money for when they go to trade-in as well.

I'm certain they could have purchased a cheaper car if that is what they wanted.

basscadet

kurtamaxxguy,

Seat comfort and cabin space are very important! I think a dealer would be delighted to have you come check out their car, sit in it, get a feel for it. Even if you're not buying that week (or even that year), they will still appreciate your business as long as you hold onto that business card and remember to ask for him/her.

basscadet

They've been sitting on your Rodeo for 3 months and haven't sold it yet? LOL.

You lucked out there, any normal dealership would have asked you to renew your tags before even considering buying it. Actually, as far as I know, a car must have current registration before a dealer or private party can buy it. Or at least that is the way it is done in my state.

butchbr73

"Of course it's a better deal. They're getting a more expensive car with more options for the same payment. That's a car they'll get more money for when they go to trade-in as well.

I'm certain they could have purchased a cheaper car if that is what they wanted."

.....come on.... you didn't honestly write that with a straight face, did you? a more expensive car for the same payment? they said the new car could be a couple hundred dollards more, $200/300 more... There is a whole lot more to the story and the differences between the 2 scenarios than that price difference.

.... by the way Basscadet, your 'ID' is new to Edmunds... what do you do for a living?

pwrone

Is this a good company to work for? I am in F&I and looking to go to SM and GSM

batmis

I want to buy a Dodge truck that has been used, but the dealership is selling it as new. Can anyone tell me if there is a mileage point at which they have to sell it at a used price instead of the price of a new one? Also, it has a couple of scratches, the tailgate is missing and one of the foglights is missing. Otherwise it seems to be good. Just mainly concerned about the mileage question or if anybody knows where to find the answer.

mikezoomzoom

As long as it has never been tagged, titled, and registered it can still be sold as new. Depending on the manufacturer, if it was assigned into "demo" status you might be able to get the full warranty or it might of been given an inception date. If given an inception date, most likely the time and miles are already in motion in regards to the remainder of factory coverage. If a "demo", the dealership might have been allowed an additional incentive to help them move that unit... NOT ALWAYS THE CASE.

Politely ask if the little quirks could be taken care of, keeping in mind it's your choice if those are deal breakers or not. Sounds to me that they would be extremely aggressive on the truck in question. Keep it fair for both sides and research both pre-owned and new TMVs. At least, look at values to arm yourself with information. Technically it's still new... so the figures they have to work with are the figures they have to work with. Factory rebates and possible finance incentives will help them sell it and you buy it.

basscadet

butch,
I just now saw the part where brak said:

"I will review the paperwork tonight. The Dealer tried to keep the old paperwork but my wife siad I would want to compare the two contracts.
Note: Vehicle A and B are exactly the same."

I had assumed Vehicle B had a few extra options or something on it.

basscadet

My wife would rather pay the extra $1 then have the dealer make a bigger profit.

Why?

I'm guessing there is a new incentive rate on the Vue that wasn't available the first time around (just a guess). Did you guys do the paperwork on the first Vue last month and the paperwork on the second Vue this month?

I am very confused why your wife would hate a Saturn dealership so much she would rather pay more money on interest just to make them lose profit. If she hates them that much, why is she buying a car from them? :confuse:

basscadet

I have friends at Carmax who are very happy and say they would never work at a traditional dealership again.

Note: Carmax typically will not hire SMs or GMs who have traditional car dealer experience, from what I've heard. They get all their managers from non-auto sales management (former Home Depot, Costco, WalMart, etc)

basscadet

batmis,

Go for deep, deep discounts on that truck.

I'm assuming mileage is over 1000 miles?

mttskys

The customers I have that are shopping for minivans never, ever request features like side air bags or curtain air bags. Customers are much more interested in DVD players or leather

I drove 100 miles to pick up my minivan. It was the nearest one I could find (searched inventory for about a dozen dealers) that had the side air bags without leather, dvd, premium group, etc. The last thing I wanted to do was spend another $2k to $6k for the unnecessary crappola.... well, except for those power doors.

I did get the feeling the minivan had been sitting there a long time.... silly safety without the DVD.

user777

this is a silly question - but it would bother me. on some vehicles, VINs are attached to all the doors, hood, trunk, etc so you know if the parts have been replaced due to an accident; so does a tailgate have a VIN on it? if so - and your tailgate is missing, that would be an issue for a potential buyer of the vehicle from you.

sounds like the unit was treated somewhat as a "hanger queen" (like a plane someone would rob parts for to get another one in the air. err - why wouldn't the dealer install a replacement fog and tailgate? why leave it in that condition? i'm curious...only fix it when someone agrees to buy it?

I agree with the deep deep deep discount. this vehicle is apparently a problem for them.

are there any maintenance records on the vehicle in the dealer database? did you ask?

guitar

Hi!

I'll be in LAX region from mid August and am looking to get either an Accord LX or Camry LE.

Just wanted to ask, would the fact that I will be paying in cash give me any negotiating advantage?

Reason I'm paying in cash is because I'm a foreigner and I don't have a credit history in the USA hence it would be impossible to get financing anyway.

thenebean

let me ask you something stanley, what makes you such an expert? perhaps you've worked in the business and seen how it is? or perhaps you've owned a dealership? or perhaps you buy a car every 3 years, and hear horror stories from uncle kenny or cousin rick?

perhaps you should calm down a little bit - not all salespeople/dealerships are here to rip people off. just like YOU, we are a business, and the goal is to make money. you mean to tell me you buy things high and sell them low?

like i mentioned before, the average new car costs $1900 to sell, once you factor in health care benefits for employees, insurance, maintenence costs for the facilities, salaries, finance charges, government fees for registrations/regulations, taxes, etc.

so that $100 profit you think is "fair" for a dealer doesn't quite cut it.

if you don't have facts, or don't have experience, don't spread lies because it only makes things worse for EVERYONE.

-thene

imidazol97

>the average new car costs $1900 to sell,

I'm not arguing about the number. I'm just curious how the data is spread. Has anyone seen a high and low for the cost of selling one car? I would think a smaller volume dealership would have a much high cost per car. A high volume dealership would be much lower per car. I assume the cost includes the physical plant, salaries to workers and amount paid to owners, costs of operation of the plant, all costs except the car itself.

Any thoughts?

thenebean

that number is straight from NADA. i would imagine as well that a smaller dealership would have a higher cost. essentially, its saying that in order to break even, the average car would have to make the dealership around $1900 to cover all the costs associated with the dealer (like i mentioned above)

nothing irks me more than a consumer who likes to think a "fair" profit is $200 :-P

anyways, i understand the other side - if everyone paid the same, there wouldnt be this fear that you left money on the table, or that someone was getting a much better price. because it cant be about the profit amount - a $3000 tv retail only costs the seller (best buy, etc.) $1500 - 100% profit! imagine that on cars! :-P

anyways, happy shopping/motoring!

-thene

imidazol97

Cars ain't furniture purchases, but...
long ago I saw a pricing guide for a quality furniture company which is still in business. It said to double the price, then multiply by 1.4 and add that on. If I got it right a $100 wholesale to store ended up at $200 then multiplied by 1.4 gives $480 for the total cost. But the store paid shipping, touchup, etc. I

emkwells

The dealership is Bob Moore Infiniti in Oklahoma City. Thanks for the response. I'll let you know how it turns out.

rroyce10

... **Go to the carmax web site, search for the model and trim line you want, get their no haggle price and print that page out. Go to your local dealership with that page in your purse or pocket and negotiate your best deal on their vehicle. Do not mention carmax or anything, just negotiate your best deal. After you invest HOURS horsing around with these clowns and you have their best price, pull your printed no haggle price out and see what price is lower. I would bet that the carmax price is lower, many times by a very significant amount**...
=================================

You didn't print that what a straight face, did you ...?

Carmax, like any other large group of stores or family of stores has to keep a close look on all of their inventory and business costs ... on the whole, Carmax isn't much different than the ABC or the XYZ dealership down the street ... their biggest claim to fame is their cost of employee and what they "perceive" is a savings on the wholesale side, some of it real and some of it not .....

The point is, Carmax can't sell (and doesn't) for tons and zillion of dollars less than most standard dealers because of the high cost of doing business .. they have multiple stores, they have multiple costs and they have multiple area's that do better than perhaps the sister store 100 miles away and in a "corporate economy" it gets averaged out .. not much different than the Home Depot in Atlanta paying for the one in Dublin, GA with dollar cost averaging .... are they competitive.? of course .. but so is JC Penny ...........



Terry.

qbrozen

Carmax supposedly has very accurate history reports of cars they sell. It helps avoid the 25% or more of cars involved in accidents (some of which are major, involving frame/structural damage that canot be fully repaired).

I'm surprised nobody else commented on this (unless i missed it).

What, pray tell, does Carmax pick up in their history that, say, Carfax (hey, i just now notice the name similarity) does not? Do they have a super-secret handshake with the president of global DMV that gets them access to those highly classified accident reports? Of course not. Their history report is no more thorough than any other dealer who has a carfax account (which I would think just about every dealer has).

rroyce10

.. ** Do they have a super-secret handshake with the president of global DMV that gets them access to those highly classified accident reports? Of course not** ..

Good point -- I was going to respond to this, but sometimes my little brain waves get short circuited and I forget ...... how do I say this in a nice way.? .. how about the word: rubbage.! .. some of their SM's know what they are doing and are very accomplished, on the other hand I've met a few that didn't know the difference between a cabriolet and convertible (I guess that's a secret also) .. it depends on the store .....

Terry.

mldj98

emkwells,

I cannot believe that a luxury line dealership is coming after you for an expired tag!
Give me a break...like I said before...someone over there overlooked it when the deal was done...the right thing to do is for them to suck it up and move on!!!!
Stand your ground...don't give in...and you have to think if the roles were reversed what would happen...not necessarly with the tag problem...but something else...
You always hear "you drove it off the lot you should have known then"......
I must admit...your situation is the first I have ever heard of...and from a luxury dealer to boot....that's something you expect from Bob's car mart on the corner...
Keep us inform...this should be a good one!!

lemmer

If the average car dealer needs to make $1,900 on average for new car sales, what kind of profit would a Carmax dealer need to make?

151ranch

I have seen a few recent posts about test drving many different cars to determine which car to buy. Going through this myself recently, I will tell you I have a far better experience than I thought I would. I have test driven 2 VWs, a Subaru, a Nissan, a Toyota, an Infiniti, 2 Acuras, and 2 BMWs (basically, every compact 4 door car that comes with a manual except Volvo and Mazda). The only rude salesman was a Nissan, blew me off because they didn't have a stick. The next Nissan dealer was polite, but told me the were no Maximas with a stick in D/FW. Next Nissan dealer (6 miles away) had the car and let me test drive it on a busy Saturday morning.

I tried to go during the week, but even on Saturday morning the salespeople were very accomodating. Everyone ponied up a brochure if I asked, and gave me plenty of time. I visited the BMW, Acura and Infiniti dealers more than once (so DH could drive). No problem.

So, keep trying if a dealer blows you off. There are good ones out there that will give you the time you need.

I do a lot of research before I go, but I still have to test drive to know. I drive my cars into the ground, so I will buy what I want, regardless of the cost. It boggles my mind that people would buy a car without testdriving, but I know it happens a lot.

Here is my problem nothing says "buy me". At least, not like that purple Mini Cooper S I see at the BMW dealer, LOL.

manamal

I have sold 3 cars to carmax. I tracked two of them when they listed them for sale. For Used Cars, carmax seems to price at about 3K over there cost, based on two datapoints.

The cars were a 2000 Accord EXV6, sold Jan 2002 with 31K miles for 16500. The car was in good shape. They probably put new rubber and detailed the car, and listed it for 19,995

The second was a 2002 Camry LE, sold Mar 2005 with *17K* miles for 11,600. The car had some mino body damage, and probably cost about $1400 to prep for sale. The listed at 15,995, and it sold within two days.

So, they are making 3K on used cars. Can't comment on the new cars.

brak

Here is what I noticed on the new contract. The vehicle sales price was $315 higher on the 2nd car. This was quantified with an increased sales tax amount and Gap Insurance amount. We did not get the 1250 personal allowance on the 2nd car.
Overall, I am happy with the deal. Instead of paying $2100 in interest, I am paying $413.
I appreciate all the comments from everyone..............

kurtamaxxguy

Wrt safety not selling - I've seen what head injuries and strokes do to people. It's not pretty.

Wrt sales, I wonder if the Europeans and Orientals care more about safety accessories than we do? And for that matter, whether "woman" buyers are more concerned about it than "men"?

Kirstie_H

Safety - An Increasingly Significant Differentiator

mark156

emkwells, how much money are they asking for?

Mark

kurtamaxxguy

thought safety sales fell into realm of ok things to ask dealers about...sorry if I went off base. Thanks for link, Kirstie.

volvodan1

I don't know if this has been brought up, but something else to keep in mind is if there is a chance you will trade in the next few years. If you might, then the rebates would be the better route. You only get the full finance savings if you keep the car for the term of the loan. Otherwise the money up front is cash in hand.

rroyce10

..... Woman are more concerned than men, and even more so when it's a family combo and the kids make a big change in the decisions ....

Terry.

emkwells

They want a little less than $100.

mldj98

don't do it...it was their mistake...not yours...
Tell them not to buy donuts and starbucks for the staff for one day...that should take care of the $100 bucks...lol )

emkwells

Thanks for the support!

basscadet

Well, the polite term is "Asians" not Orientals, but I'll answer your question regardless. :P

In my experience, the people who care most about safety generally are more educated (or at least come across that way). As far as race and creed goes, I don't think that matters.

If you're guessing that a caucasian soccer mom looking into buying a larger vehicle for her 2 children (and a 3rd on the way) would care more about safety...you'd be wrong. This business continues to surprise me.

basscadet

Carmax's business model does not cater to individuals who are looking for the cheapest-priced car available. Their prices are definitely not the lowest, but they're not the most expensive either. Customers who shop Carmax are looking for premium used cars that will be safe and reliable.

There are definitely cars on their lots that are better bargains than others. Side-by-side, you will see two 2004 Pontiac Grand Ams, one with 20k and the other with 32k and they will sell for the same exact price, same options and everything. It's very weird.

chrisptown

Can a dealer do an exchange or swop with another dealer with this employee -family pricing going on ?? I found a new Ford Taurus Wagon i like onweb but it is 450 miles away from me. My closest dealer of any size is 100 miles away. Can i expect to still get the "employee-family price minus any charge for the dealer to go get the car??

volvodan1

Yes, they should be able to. As you said, the only consideration would be the cost to go get the vehicle.

notyou2

I know exactly how you feel!!!! I can't seem to make my mind up, and that has never happened before. I am looking at something different from you, I do know I don't want a car....and I was blown off by a Nissan dealer too!!!

I had one helpful person on here suggest a couple vehicles to look at, but we have had strong storms every day since that message, so I haven't been able to go. I would go, I don't mind test driving in the rain, but someone on this forum, or another, wrote that when people come shopping in the rain, it means they are desperate, which, I am not....

Best of luck to you, I hope we both find what we need soon.

notyou2

I look at safety, I am a woman, I don't care if there are vanity mirrors, or video, or 6 disc cd, or the color, other than black, too hot for black........

sadcarbuyer1

Thanks so much for your help...glad to know there are such kind people in the world!

ifyoubuildit

Thats the first time i've heard that. Can you explain further? Thanks!!

guss

How does it work when a new car dealer wholesale my trade to Joe's Used Car Lot?

When the dealer calls around to his wholesalers and gives them a description of my trade, I assume he gives him an honest description describing paint work and all. Do dealers now take digital pictures while I am waiting and e-mail them to the wholesalers along with a carfax report?

And how obligated is Joe to buy it once he gives a number and then comes to look at it and he feels it's not worth the number he gave over the phone?

I was just wondering how this all works, I have spent way too much time waiting for the number while the used car manager call around to his wholesalers.

jhs70

With all due respect, why should a customer care about the dealer's $1900 cost? It's essentially none of their business, and falls into the same category as "If I give you this car for this price how can I feed my family?". Please. I'd be willing to bet that no dealer I've ever bought a car from has ever cared that my monthly expenses amount to $6054 (absent any concerns about my ability to pay cash or to finance the vehicle).

No, the buyer's goal is to pay the least; the seller's goal is to extract the most. They land somewhere in between. It's a business deal. Everything else is just a distraction. And in the market I'm in, I don't value the establishment of a "relationship" all that much. I'm buying a car, not trying to make friends. Oh sure, if some kind of relationship develops, fine. It's not a bad thing. I'm a friendly guy. But it's never a goal. I might have a different position if Iived anywhere else, but around here, nawww. And I've never had any issues getting service anywhere I've gone, no matter who I've bought from. It's just too competitive a market for any dealership to play that game around here.

mikefm58

How much should a buyer expect to pay for a low mileage used 2005 vehicle under the price of an identical new one?
.
I'm looking at a 2005 Chevy Colorado with 2600 miles where the GM employee price is $14200 for an identical new one. $14200 includes everything except tax tag & title.
.
What would be a reasonable purchase price?

stanley2

Quoted from a user at Epinions..."We've not lost a sale yet to CarMax" the salesman insisted when I was ready to deal on a new Jeep. I went to a local Jeep dealer armed with a packet of internet research on comparable inventory at different dealers. Prior to our negotiations, the salesman had been extremely helpful, even allowing me to try on the car for 24 hours. I really wanted to give him my business. But CarMax had the best deals published on the internet. All I wanted was for the local dealer to match the CarMax price and give me the same value on my trade as CarMax had appraised it earlier in the week.

I showed the salesman a print out of a comparable vehicle which CarMax was retailing for about $442 BELOW the published invoice price. He insisted it had to be a mistake. so then I showed him print outs of seven comparable vehicles at several CarMax Jeep locations. Every vehicle was priced approximately 1.7% BELOW invoice... clearly not a mistake. He played the old "WIll you buy this car tonight" game. "Absolutely", I said, "as long as you match CarMax's price. Don't come back and tell me you need $100 more".

Before he stepped away I reminded him that in order to match CarMax, he'd have to do something about the local dealer's $399 "dealer" fee. (dealer fee, doc fee, call it what you will. It's offensive industry crap, aggravated by the fact that Jeep window stickers state "price for vehicle, including dealer prep".) He insisted that they had to charge it since it was pre-printed on the contract. (That's a lame reply. I'm an attorney and I can tell you for sure that the dealer and I are free to contract for the sale of a car on any terms we negotiate.) "That's fine", I said. "But CarMax's "processing" fee is only $99. "All I want is for you to match CarMax. So you're going to have to back $300 more out of the price of the car if you insist on leaving the "dealer" fee in the contract.

I knew this deal was squeezing the dealership. I didn't care. But, I wasn't looking to rip them off. I just wanted the same deal CarMax was offering. It took the salesman, his manager, and a band of cohorts some 30 minutes to finally declare that I was going to be the first deal they ever lost to CarMax.

My negotiations with the local dealer concluded at 6:30 pm. By 7:15 I was at CarMax in Norcross where I signed a deal for a new Jeep. I bought the vehicle that was advertised on the CarMax website. I bought it at the price listed on the website. ($442 BELOW published invoice) I received credit for my trade at the same value which Carmax gave me, in writing, 8 days earlier. I got 0.0% Chrysler financing. (a confirmed deal, not a "spot" delivery) To add icing to the cake, my wife was just tickled when CarMax gave us a $100 Target gift card. By 9:00 we were escorted to the service bay where I was handed the keys to my freshly washed and waxed Jeep, given a demonstration of all its features, and I was on my way.

The CarMax salespeople were a pleasure to deal with. These are young professionals who refuse to sell cars in the offensive, archaeic manner to which so many of us are accustomed. I firmly believe that I got a great deal at Carmax and that I was treated properly. So, regardless of how much money CarMax ultimately made on this deal, well, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that never did I feel that CarMax was not being 100% forthright with me. Not once during the entire process at CarMax did I feel my blood pressure rising. What matters is that I feel good about the deal. I will not suffer second thoughts and worry whether somewhere in the process did the dealer pull a fast one on me. Now, I can put my research and all my other papers away, get on with my life and enjoy my new Jeep.

Like that? :P

rroyce10

....... Mike, now don't you start .....

How about: base .... Ecab ... Z85... .... Z71..... LS .... 4x4 .... partridge in a pear tree .........?

Terry.