I may have said what I wanted to say in a humorous manner, but I was certainly not kidding.
My point being---last month at the Honda dealer, they appraised my trade-in in line with KBB and Edmunds trade in estimates, resulting in a pleasant and fair trade-in experience. As opposed to 2002, where the Dodge dealer used the heretofore unknown, to me and I would bet, most consumers, Black Book, to try to say to me that KBB and Edmunds were useless trade-in tools. Since they did meet the KBB and Edmunds trade-in value, after I started walking out the door, that shows, at least to me, if not others, the legitimacy of KBB and Edmunds.
I would have walked too. I have a computer on my desk and can't tell you how many times I have gone to KBB and built the car infront of the customer who acted like the frame was made of solid gold. It has helped me put more deals together than have them unwind. They are good to give you a ballpark not a etched in stone dollar amount
" Why is information that is paid for somehow more valuable or accurate than that which is not paid for? Give me a break. "
I don't know if it's any better than KBB or Edmunds. But I'm sure I've heard it more from the dealers 'cuz the typical consumer doesn't have it. Maybe they feel it gives them more of an advantage. It would be like negotiating and have no idea what the invoice price is on a new car. . You did the right thing at the Dodge dealer, just walk out if you're not happy with their prices. If your homework is correct, chances are they call you back.
The common theme of all these, KBB on line, black book and NADA is that they are estimates. Appraising used cars is more art than science. Manheim on-line gives the best and most up to date view of the marketplace. Edmunds and KBB on line have built in fudge factors(KBB on line is different from the Blue book that dealers get)
I wouldn't mind if everyone saw the black book or manheim, they generally have the lowest values and so are most dealer friendly. It would solve the problem of the guy w/ the Ford or chevy who thinks his car is worth book.
Finally, different cars have different values. Some cars trade closer to their book values than others and some dealers have better wholesale sources than others. Hondas, Toyotas, Lexus, and certain bimmers trade closest to their book values. Domestics, koreans, Mitsu's,Saabs don't usually come anywhere close th their book values. Everyone else is somewhere in the middle.
I have questions/comments, don't snipe at me, please.
If the black book is so great, why doesn't the dealer show it to the customer when the customer has spent so much time printing out KBB, Edmunds, NADA? I would think that would stop too much harrassment, and make the customer feel better.
Also, why not have that little black book available for any customer to come in to the dealer, and let them look through, thus continuing their research at their own discretion and pace. Seeing IS believing.
I have a retail business, (now in my home and online, no storefront, whew, I don't have to leave home any more)) and I CAN and DO direct any single one of my customer's to my wholesaler's website, they can look at the wholesale price of the item, and then know how much mark-up I am doing to continue in this business. They can even look at the wholesalers' whole catalog, and ask me to order something they want, in person and online!!! They can't order from the website, the website is the same one I order from, and the wholesaler's website actually directs the customer to retailers, even me.
So, for the informed consumer, I am not ever "hiding" pricing, I can tell them where to find the prices, and if they don't want to pay fair retail, then let them open thier own store, etc.... (and pay taxes, and utilities, and accountants.....) I have kept customers for 14 years now, using this practice, and I am still in business, even though I closed my storefront....
...... I've shown Black Book on many occasions and I've show Manheim a ton of times to customers, there lies the problem ....
Most customers will almost always take the higher price from "whatever" the source is and it could be Edmunds, KBB or NADA (or the above) - it happens everyday ..
What most folks forget to take into play is their vehicle might need rubber, they forget about the $2,000 "kiss" that was fixed and repaired in 03 but still shows up like a bad habit .. they also have a tendency to go blind to the high miles or the manual transmission, or the 60k service is due and it has 69,000 miles, or they kinda forget about that interior that looks like a Hershey convention - and lets not forget the region, color, options, condition, time of the year and the type of dealership that is looking at the trade ..
Most (not all) import dealers have a tendency to hit domestic trades a little light, a Bimmer dealer doesn't get much traffic for a Town Car and Honda dealers don't get too many calls for Suburbans .. so they would prefer to call their local wholesaler or run it off to the auction ....
I admire your in-home business, but you can show people all the figures in the world, but they still want to deal and get what they "think" is a better price .. it's not that dealers have all these cards and folks don't get treated right, mostly it ends up being 2 things: 1.) ego .. and 2.) folks don't like bad news and they feel embarrassed they might have made a bad deal .... tell a customer his vehicle is worth $11,000 when his "books" say $14,500 and they get that "dead mullet" look on their face and march out the door ... but after they've been to 2 or 3 stores and every dealer is inside of $200 or $500 of that $11,000 then all of a sudden ~ the light goes on .... sometimes it's better to be the 2nd or the 3rd dealer -- that's cuz' they shoot the Messenger.! .......
Thanks, you just let me know of another tool, Manhiem.. What is that? I need to ask my brother about this too I guess....gee, more to learn....
Maybe I am too practical, because I do realize cars can have problems, but then again,,, I have ground floor, literally, knowledge of cars...now, let me explain.
My first car was a 1966 Dodge Charger....I got it in 1972, and it was "wrecked". It was abandoned along an interstate, we purchased it, and between my father, brother, and every other neighborhood guy, we rebuilt that car from the ground up. I still to this day have the before and after pictures. I, being a *gasp* girl, also got a job in the dealership my brother started working in, at age 17, he was 16. Je is still there....add that up.... I detailed used cars that came in, (got $20.00 per car at that time, no matter how may hours I put into the darn thing) and I learned how to do it from the best, thus, my cars to this day are always detailed to the max, and I still get compliments on how nice my cars always look absolutely great.. I cringe when I walk past cars in a parking lot, and see how junky they are, and some of my friends cars' are so bad, I volunteer to drive...(actually beg).
Most people aren't practical, and can't see they are slobs, and no matter how gently you try to tell them the car has problems, they won't accept it, but, I still say, let them see all the "tools of the trade", and go from there....
Thinking about buying a convertible and have a couple of questions:
The boards talk about "cowl" - what is that?
The car would likely be in a garage or under covered parking 23+ hours a day. In the summer, it could weeks at a time without needing to put up the top. Would this damage or wrinkle the top, or would I need to put it up periodically to avoid that?
...dealers relying on a friendly resource is no different in my mind than banks requesting property appraisals from "friendly" appraisers - those that want the bank to hire them again and again. The question I've not seen clarified is: what does your pre-owned trade actually sell for on that dealer's lot? I'm betting much closer to Edmunds/KBB/NADA (what my bank uses) than the "black book." It's all part of the game...minimize the purchase price while maximizing the selling price. Dealer representatives on some of the posts in this discussion are acting like they don't have a clue what we're (the buyers) aluding to... (p.s. I've bought lots of new cars in the last 10 years or so, and I'm REAL good at it...ha!)
... **The question I've not seen clarified is: what does your pre-owned trade actually sell for on that dealer's lot?** ...
There are 3 prices when you go to sell anything ...
1.) Asking
2.) Liking
3.) Taking
Dealers like consumers will use the NADA, usually because they have the biggest LTV and the lenders use them .... you need to find yourself between the Liking and Taking price ..................
"Also, when you show them Black Book, you point to average. Of course their finger drifts to the left because theirs is extra-clean+."
Right. And then there's the way that Manheim does it... I get to look at this stuff at a buddy's store now and then...
It fooled me the first few times I saw it, but there is actually that little column in the auction report that says "Condition", which can be average/below/above. Cool, I thought, someone's rating the car's condition.
Next time you have a chance to look at that, sort the auction results by price... voila: the middle is "average", and the bottom and top quarters become "below" and "above". Easy :-)
All these books are nice as helpful guides, I'm sure, but I can't help but think there's no substitute for plain old experience when purchasing a vehicle at auction. Get burned a couple of times, make a few good purchases, and you learn along the way about what's realistic and what's not going to fly.
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We signed a purchase agreement for a 2005 330xi about a week ago and put down deposit of $1000. We were supposed to pick up car yesterday. My husband's calls to salesman who sold him car went unreturned all week. The day before we were to go pick up car, the sales manager calls my husband and tells him that "by mistake" the car was sold the day before to someone else. How they can do this when we have a purchase agreement with the VIN # of the car and a deposit on it is beyond me but all the guy says is that mistakes happen. Their stories change with whoever gets on the phone. The biggest problem is that we spent weeks looking for this car, there are NO 2005 330xi's equipped like that in basically the country. ( I did a search with BMW). Major problem, my husband's lease on his Volvo is up in 2 weeks and new 2006s not out until Oct. Angry doesn't even begin to describe how we feel. Oh, by the way the dealership is Wide World of Cars Bmw in Spring Valley New York. What recourse do we have?
Thnx for info. Was _not_ trying to be insulting by using the "O" word - those of you who were offended, my apologies !!!
I suspect there are variations in car sales due to genetics and gender, but apparently that's too inflamatory to discuss here. My apologies.
So on something that is "safe"; here are two customers. Customer A has a ton of cash. Customer B has a ton of credit. Both want to buy a car but are a little fuzzy as to exactly what they want. Which one is your preferred customer?
If a dealer sold my car from under me, and I had previously made a deposit, I'd get my money back immediately. Even if its return was mostly symbolic, I'd still want the check back. Everything else can be renegotiated.
Beyond that, what can you do? The car you ordered is gone, you can't conjure one out of thin air, so keep looking or go to Plan B (if there is one).
Another idea is to contact your leasing company and extend your Volvo lease another month, or however long you need to extend it. At least you'll have a car to drive until another 330xi comes along and you won't be forced into buying something you don't really want.
A local dealer sold a car out from under a neighbor. Someone else was willing to pay more for it. I'd check on the registration after the state has time to update their computers.
.. **Another idea is to contact your leasing company and extend your Volvo lease another month, or however long you need to extend it. At least you'll have a car to drive until another 330xi comes along and you won't be forced into buying something you don't really want** ....
Bingo.! ... once in a great while it happens, I'm sure the dealer feels as bad as you .. so extend the lease and go on ....
Hi everyone. I have been looking to get a new car for a few weeks now and things were just gearing up when I was in a moderate car accident. My 2002 Envoy was hit on the right passenger side. The car is still driveable but it will need a new hood, and some good body work on the front. The engine/tranny/radiator and such are all fine it appears to be mostly body work.
I had it towed to a dealership and they have estimated repairs from 2500-3500 dollars. I will be paying a deductible to get the car fixed and it is much less than that so no problem there. However of course the problem now lies on the value of the car to trade-in. The dealer I was talking to after the wreck said he would not be able to take the car for fair trade-in value but around 1000-1500 or so less than that. My car was in great condition before that. Only 43000 miles and worked perfectly.
I guess my question is can I receive compensation from my insurance company for the diminished value the car now has. Would it be better to try and just sell the vehicle to a private party. I live in Kansas and I think I remember seeing that Kansas, Georgia and another state had ruled on diminished values. Not sure what would be the best course of action. I can't really afford to be w/o a car for too long... but of course I don't want to seem desperate. Any suggestions?
i'm not a lawyer - just married to one. i think i've asked her about something like this sort of thing, and about all you could do would be sue them for damages because they've breached their side of the contract. in this case damages would be the monies you'd be out for extending the lease and perhaps any discounts for purchasing in the window you would have otherwise.
ask another lawyer... would it be worth your time and effort and money to sue them? do i need to answer that question? plus - if you ever want to do business with them again, you've shot yourself in the foot.
ok then - i presume there is another bmw dealership in town. personally, i wouldn't order with the first team again that left you hanging. i don't think they are showing an appropriate response for something that just "happens". if they wanted to make things right, you'd think they'd freely offer to pick up the tab to extend the lease and do their super best to find you another (presuming they have resources you didnt have access to). or they'd put you in a cheap vehicle while you wait for the '06s to come following the termination of your lease.
if you can't extend your lease, here's an idea: why not spend a couple grand on a really old used car. drive it until the '06s are out. then you'll really appreciate the car when you get it.
Let's review here. We have a high line car dealer who should know what they're doing. They've been in business long enough to have a tracking system for each car in stock, as well as orders and shipped cars. They, somehow, had that system fail on them, accidentally. And it's just a mia culpa, we goofed!!!
I'd be talking turkey to them about compensation in a replacement vehicle and paying your lease extension, or a substitute loaner car while the replacement vehicle you want is arriving from Bavaria or wherever.
As far as just accidentally slipped up in their methods and the car was sold... LOL. They know they have you unless your state has some kind of special law about this kind of business "error." It would cost you more to litigate and they know it. But I'd sure talk about a real-world markdown on the car you want. If they're an honest dealer, they will show that they're trying to accomodate you for what they've cost you. Just listen to how they phrase things.
I purchased a 2004 Chevy Tahoe Z71, and I'm leaving for the military in 3 months, and I'm trying to get out of my Smart-buy, Any ideas? I've already paid 12 notes on it and there is 36 remaining? Please advise. I'd even consider letting someone have it with no money down if they get appoved for GMAC financing......
You can sell it outright and satisfy what is owed on the lease, or get someone to take it over.
I have to tell you, it may be an uphill battle with GM selling vehicles for what they are selling them for. It may be cheaper for someone to get into an '05! Call GM and get a pay off amount and then let us know what it is.
It's quite simple, Terry. The guys in the back who value our cars just get onto their wholesale network and see what comparable vehicles have been selling for at the auto auctions in Kansas City and St. Louis. You and I both know that is truly the only way you can value these cars. Blue Book, NADA, Black Book...they're all just guidelines, but guidelines only.
The biggest problem is that we spent weeks looking for this car, there are NO 2005 330xi's equipped like that in basically the country.
Consider your situation a blessing.
As someone who is a BMW fanatic and whose family owns/owned several BMWs I would tell you that you are out of your MIND buying an 330xi.
The AWD system employed in this vehicle is costly, unreliable, and inferior in every way, shape, and form to Audi's Quattro system. Please, please investigate the A4 3.0 Quattro and Subaru Legacy at your earliest convenience.
If you are worried about snow/inclement weather performance, get a new 330i and spend the difference on some Blizzaks, which are some great snow tires. Snow performance is all tire. As somebody who drives an AWD vehicle, I can vouch for the fact that a AWD vehicle is worthless unless it has good tires on it.
A year or so ago, just after I first heard about and started to understand the concept of ' Diminished Value' after an accident, State Farm slipped a short note in all my insurance policies as they renewed telling me they no longer will accept Diminished Value claims.....
I'm in Oklahoma.
You need to read your insurance policy to see if your company will allow you some payment or not. I'm betting 'not'.
Oh....that's exactly what we need.....get an attorney involved. Not like we have too much litigation already going on in this country.
I agree with everyone else. Extend the lease of the Volvo by calling the leasing company. Look around to see if there's something else that will come close to fitting the bill for your use.
I've bought a couple of BMWs. In general, their dealerships will do everything they can to make you happy. This was probably an honest mistake. Ask the dealership to do a search for you to see if they can find a car that you would be satisfied with. Just keep an open mind. If they can't, there's all sorts of AWD cars out there that you might also want to take a look at.....perhaps take a look at the new Acura RLs? Those are supposed to be very nice vehicles from what I've read.
You are in Spring Valley, which is just on the other side of teh Tappen Zee from Westchester County, right?
You have a couple of options....first, do you really need AWD in that area? I would understand it if the answer is yes. If so, you can press hard for the dealer to find something compareable. Or, you could look at other manufactures. Personally, I am partial to the Subaru Legacy GT. The Infinity G35x is nice too.
Mistakes happen. Lawsuits probably are not appropriate as it would be hard to prove damages. Sure, you might lose the incentlive, but the '06 would presumably have a better residual.
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Thank you!!
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Maybe the dealer made an hones mistake. So what? If our honest mistakes hurt someone, we have to pay for them.
If I back out of my driveway and mistakenly go into our neighbor's yard and run over a bike, I think I should pay to replace the bike.
In our case, the dealer had a contract with a car buyer to deliver a specific car, and they failed to do it. This caused the buyer to suffer to some degree. The dealer should be willing to give some money to the buyer to make up for his mistake. If the dealer refuses to do so, I think a lawsuit is appropriate.
I'm still on the concept the dealer and their salesmen are the professionals. They lost track of something as unimportant as a car sale? NOT.
That's as hard to believe as an aging pop singer wanting some attention in the media having a "wardrobe malfunction" by accident during a scene at the super bowl.
Anyone know a Subaru dealer that sells the extended warranty at a discount other than Fitzgerald in Maryland? They sell theirs for 25% off the list price. I just got my wife a new OBS last month and she keeps hers forever so a long (by this I meant at least 7 years/100k) one is what I am looking for.
bobst....what possible harm came from this scenario? Yeah, a deal went south on a car. Using your logic, then the person who signed a contract to buy a car, but coudln't get financing, would be sued by the car dealer.
You can't force blood from a turnip.
I think getting a similar car for the buyer would be a good business decision. IF those cars are no longer available, a more reasonable outcome would be to just give any moneys that changed hands be returned. In the long run, if any lawyer would even think about taking on this case, it's going to cost the buyer way more than what the whole ordeal is worth, IMHO. It will make an irritating situation even worse....with no good outcome for either party. The customer still isn't going to get the car they wanted and it's not a slam dunk that either party would prevail in court.
My guess would be, after stringing this out for a month or two or three, no magistrate is going to say that any harm, which monetary damages could be awarded, would take place.
Mistakes are made. Aside from some aggravation, what pain and suffering was experienced that you could attach monetary values?
Gee, next time I get aggravated at my neighbor for blowing his grass clippings in my yard, I think I'll sue him........ :confuse:
what's with all the litigation anyways?! thats what makes everything so much more difficult down the road, everyone is afraid of lawyers trying to sue them left and right...
mistakes happen (believe it or not) - get your money back, look to see what else is available, (infiniti G35x or M35x are great cars, as are the Audi's, and the Acura RL) and move on. yeah, its screwy that the dealer "forgot" they sold the car to someone else - but things happen...maybe after the deal was written, the salesperson quit/was fired, and things got lost in the shuffle with regards to deals. life is too short to dwell on such a small issue.
I hate to break it to you, but dealerships make honest mistakes like this all the time. Usually it can be blamed on poor communication, documentation.
Such a thing has happened at my dealership before, we offered a refund of the money or offered to track down a similar vehicle to transfer in, at our cost.
What has transpired here is not actionable unless the deposit was not returned in full.
OK, I think we've had just about enough "forum philosopher" legal advice. Let's move on.
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I'm sorry but I don't believe this is an "honest" mistake. The story changed twice from "they sold car after you put down deposit" to "well... the other party gave deposit before you did to a different salesman" (who we know for a fact was off that day!) We are NOT going to sue nor did we have any intention on doing so( too much litigation in this country), we are going to try to work with the dealer on a 2006. Still have problem on Volvo not willing to extend lease but hoping to reach some sort of amicable agrrement. What kind of #'s do you think we can get a 2006 330xi for. How much over invoice should I offer? I think this dealer should at least try to work with us.
they should definitely be willing to work with you on a good price for a 2006 - and be sure to tell them as such. hopefully everything works out for you, and that you are happy in your decision!
sounds to me like they probably got a capable buyer who was ready to take delivery and was probably offering more than you. can you blame the dealership? if you really wanted it you should have bought it instead of putting down a deposit and then continuing to shop. if the situation was reversed, and you would have found something you preferred, or found the same thing cheaper, i'm sure you would have bought it, then asked for your deposit money back. if the dealer would have refused to sell to the other customer, and then you renigged, they would have made the stupid decision. they did the only thing that made business sense. this kind of thing happens often in many places besides a car dealership. sorry about your luck, and i hope you end up with what you want, but dont blame the dealership for trying to make a buck.
Still have problem on Volvo not willing to extend lease but hoping to reach some sort of amicable agreement.
That boggles my mind. I did some work as a consultant for Chrysler's lease company and they would do just about anything to get someone to extend their lease!
we DID buy it. We put down $1000, signed a purchase agreement with the VIN number and arranged outside financing to purchase car. We didn't show up at dealership with $40,000 in cash to put down. We didn't continue to "shop around". The dealership is located an hour and half from where we live. Saturdays were the only day available to get car due to work schedule. They certainly didn't have a problem with us returning in a week to pick up car. Sorry, yes, I do blame the dealership for trying to make a buck by breaking what a thought what I thought was a contract. Why sign things like this anyway then with VIN #'s etc
Comments
My point being---last month at the Honda dealer, they appraised my trade-in in line with KBB and Edmunds trade in estimates, resulting in a pleasant and fair trade-in experience. As opposed to 2002, where the Dodge dealer used the heretofore unknown, to me and I would bet, most consumers, Black Book, to try to say to me that KBB and Edmunds were useless trade-in tools. Since they did meet the KBB and Edmunds trade-in value, after I started walking out the door, that shows, at least to me, if not others, the legitimacy of KBB and Edmunds.
I don't know if it's any better than KBB or Edmunds. But I'm sure I've heard it more from the dealers 'cuz the typical consumer doesn't have it. Maybe they feel it gives them more of an advantage. It would be like negotiating and have no idea what the invoice price is on a new car.
.
You did the right thing at the Dodge dealer, just walk out if you're not happy with their prices. If your homework is correct, chances are they call you back.
Appraising used cars is more art than science.
Manheim on-line gives the best and most up to date view of the marketplace.
Edmunds and KBB on line have built in fudge factors(KBB on line is different from the Blue book that dealers get)
I wouldn't mind if everyone saw the black book or manheim, they generally have the lowest values and so are most dealer friendly. It would solve the problem of the guy w/ the Ford or chevy who thinks his car is worth book.
Finally, different cars have different values. Some cars trade closer to their book values than others and some dealers have better wholesale sources than others.
Hondas, Toyotas, Lexus, and certain bimmers trade closest to their book values.
Domestics, koreans, Mitsu's,Saabs don't usually come anywhere close th their book values.
Everyone else is somewhere in the middle.
If the black book is so great, why doesn't the dealer show it to the customer when the customer has spent so much time printing out KBB, Edmunds, NADA? I would think that would stop too much harrassment, and make the customer feel better.
Also, why not have that little black book available for any customer to come in to the dealer, and let them look through, thus continuing their research at their own discretion and pace. Seeing IS believing.
I have a retail business, (now in my home and online, no storefront, whew, I don't have to leave home any more)) and I CAN and DO direct any single one of my customer's to my wholesaler's website, they can look at the wholesale price of the item, and then know how much mark-up I am doing to continue in this business. They can even look at the wholesalers' whole catalog, and ask me to order something they want, in person and online!!! They can't order from the website, the website is the same one I order from, and the wholesaler's website actually directs the customer to retailers, even me.
So, for the informed consumer, I am not ever "hiding" pricing, I can tell them where to find the prices, and if they don't want to pay fair retail, then let them open thier own store, etc.... (and pay taxes, and utilities, and accountants.....) I have kept customers for 14 years now, using this practice, and I am still in business, even though I closed my storefront....
Just my 2 cents for the day.
Thank you for your insight to this on-going Black Book vs. Blue Book thread!.
Most customers will almost always take the higher price from "whatever" the source is and it could be Edmunds, KBB or NADA (or the above) - it happens everyday ..
What most folks forget to take into play is their vehicle might need rubber, they forget about the $2,000 "kiss" that was fixed and repaired in 03 but still shows up like a bad habit .. they also have a tendency to go blind to the high miles or the manual transmission, or the 60k service is due and it has 69,000 miles, or they kinda forget about that interior that looks like a Hershey convention - and lets not forget the region, color, options, condition, time of the year and the type of dealership that is looking at the trade ..
Most (not all) import dealers have a tendency to hit domestic trades a little light, a Bimmer dealer doesn't get much traffic for a Town Car and Honda dealers don't get too many calls for Suburbans .. so they would prefer to call their local wholesaler or run it off to the auction ....
I admire your in-home business, but you can show people all the figures in the world, but they still want to deal and get what they "think" is a better price .. it's not that dealers have all these cards and folks don't get treated right, mostly it ends up being 2 things: 1.) ego .. and 2.) folks don't like bad news and they feel embarrassed they might have made a bad deal .... tell a customer his vehicle is worth $11,000 when his "books" say $14,500 and they get that "dead mullet" look on their face and march out the door ... but after they've been to 2 or 3 stores and every dealer is inside of $200 or $500 of that $11,000 then all of a sudden ~ the light goes on .... sometimes it's better to be the 2nd or the 3rd dealer -- that's cuz' they shoot the Messenger.! .......
Terry
Thanks, you just let me know of another tool, Manhiem.. What is that? I need to ask my brother about this too I guess....gee, more to learn....
Maybe I am too practical, because I do realize cars can have problems, but then again,,, I have ground floor, literally, knowledge of cars...now, let me explain.
My first car was a 1966 Dodge Charger....I got it in 1972, and it was "wrecked". It was abandoned along an interstate, we purchased it, and between my father, brother, and every other neighborhood guy, we rebuilt that car from the ground up. I still to this day have the before and after pictures. I, being a *gasp* girl, also got a job in the dealership my brother started working in, at age 17, he was 16. Je is still there....add that up.... I detailed used cars that came in, (got $20.00 per car at that time, no matter how may hours I put into the darn thing) and I learned how to do it from the best, thus, my cars to this day are always detailed to the max, and I still get compliments on how nice my cars always look absolutely great.. I cringe when I walk past cars in a parking lot, and see how junky they are, and some of my friends cars' are so bad, I volunteer to drive...(actually beg).
Most people aren't practical, and can't see they are slobs, and no matter how gently you try to tell them the car has problems, they won't accept it, but, I still say, let them see all the "tools of the trade", and go from there....
Another random thought....
The boards talk about "cowl" - what is that?
The car would likely be in a garage or under covered parking 23+ hours a day. In the summer, it could weeks at a time without needing to put up the top. Would this damage or wrinkle the top, or would I need to put it up periodically to avoid that?
There are 3 prices when you go to sell anything ...
1.) Asking
2.) Liking
3.) Taking
Dealers like consumers will use the NADA, usually because they have the biggest LTV and the lenders use them .... you need to find yourself between the Liking and Taking price ..................
Terry.
Right.
And then there's the way that Manheim does it... I get to look at this stuff at a buddy's store now and then...
It fooled me the first few times I saw it, but there is actually that little column in the auction report that says "Condition", which can be average/below/above. Cool, I thought, someone's rating the car's condition.
Next time you have a chance to look at that, sort the auction results by price... voila: the middle is "average", and the bottom and top quarters become "below" and "above". Easy :-)
-Mathias
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I suspect there are variations in car sales due to genetics and gender, but apparently that's too inflamatory to discuss here. My apologies.
So on something that is "safe"; here are two customers. Customer A has a ton of cash. Customer B has a ton of credit. Both want to buy a car but are a little fuzzy as to exactly what they want. Which one is your preferred customer?
Beyond that, what can you do? The car you ordered is gone, you can't conjure one out of thin air, so keep looking or go to Plan B (if there is one).
Another idea is to contact your leasing company and extend your Volvo lease another month, or however long you need to extend it. At least you'll have a car to drive until another 330xi comes along and you won't be forced into buying something you don't really want.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Bingo.! ... once in a great while it happens, I'm sure the dealer feels as bad as you .. so extend the lease and go on ....
Terry.
I had it towed to a dealership and they have estimated repairs from 2500-3500 dollars. I will be paying a deductible to get the car fixed and it is much less than that so no problem there. However of course the problem now lies on the value of the car to trade-in. The dealer I was talking to after the wreck said he would not be able to take the car for fair trade-in value but around 1000-1500 or so less than that. My car was in great condition before that. Only 43000 miles and worked perfectly.
I guess my question is can I receive compensation from my insurance company for the diminished value the car now has. Would it be better to try and just sell the vehicle to a private party. I live in Kansas and I think I remember seeing that Kansas, Georgia and another state had ruled on diminished values. Not sure what would be the best course of action. I can't really afford to be w/o a car for too long... but of course I don't want to seem desperate. Any suggestions?
Thanks!
ask another lawyer... would it be worth your time and effort and money to sue them? do i need to answer that question? plus - if you ever want to do business with them again, you've shot yourself in the foot.
ok then - i presume there is another bmw dealership in town. personally, i wouldn't order with the first team again that left you hanging. i don't think they are showing an appropriate response for something that just "happens". if they wanted to make things right, you'd think they'd freely offer to pick up the tab to extend the lease and do their super best to find you another (presuming they have resources you didnt have access to). or they'd put you in a cheap vehicle while you wait for the '06s to come following the termination of your lease.
if you can't extend your lease, here's an idea: why not spend a couple grand on a really old used car. drive it until the '06s are out. then you'll really appreciate the car when you get it.
I'd be talking turkey to them about compensation in a replacement vehicle and paying your lease extension, or a substitute loaner car while the replacement vehicle you want is arriving from Bavaria or wherever.
As far as just accidentally slipped up in their methods and the car was sold... LOL. They know they have you unless your state has some kind of special law about this kind of business "error." It would cost you more to litigate and they know it. But I'd sure talk about a real-world markdown on the car you want. If they're an honest dealer, they will show that they're trying to accomodate you for what they've cost you. Just listen to how they phrase things.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The '05 330 probably had an incentive of $4200 plus additional mark-downs since the 2006's have been selling since May.
I doubt the dealer would want to match that offer on an '06 model.
A $4200 (minimum) compensation might be worth hiring an attorney.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
A few days ago you were pushing your employer Carmax, tonight your trying to push your attorney ... have your tried any AA meetings lately.?
Terry.
I'd even consider letting someone have it with no money down if they get appoved for GMAC financing......
I have to tell you, it may be an uphill battle with GM selling vehicles for what they are selling them for. It may be cheaper for someone to get into an '05! Call GM and get a pay off amount and then let us know what it is.
For $15,000 I'm sure it was a 2WD.
Consider your situation a blessing.
As someone who is a BMW fanatic and whose family owns/owned several BMWs I would tell you that you are out of your MIND buying an 330xi.
The AWD system employed in this vehicle is costly, unreliable, and inferior in every way, shape, and form to Audi's Quattro system. Please, please investigate the A4 3.0 Quattro and Subaru Legacy at your earliest convenience.
If you are worried about snow/inclement weather performance, get a new 330i and spend the difference on some Blizzaks, which are some great snow tires. Snow performance is all tire. As somebody who drives an AWD vehicle, I can vouch for the fact that a AWD vehicle is worthless unless it has good tires on it.
That's the least they can do for somebody who is going to risk their lives for their country!
Diminished Value claims.....
I'm in Oklahoma.
You need to read your insurance policy to see if your company will allow you some payment or not. I'm betting 'not'.
I agree with everyone else. Extend the lease of the Volvo by calling the leasing company. Look around to see if there's something else that will come close to fitting the bill for your use.
I've bought a couple of BMWs. In general, their dealerships will do everything they can to make you happy. This was probably an honest mistake. Ask the dealership to do a search for you to see if they can find a car that you would be satisfied with. Just keep an open mind. If they can't, there's all sorts of AWD cars out there that you might also want to take a look at.....perhaps take a look at the new Acura RLs? Those are supposed to be very nice vehicles from what I've read.
You are in Spring Valley, which is just on the other side of teh Tappen Zee from Westchester County, right?
You have a couple of options....first, do you really need AWD in that area? I would understand it if the answer is yes. If so, you can press hard for the dealer to find something compareable. Or, you could look at other manufactures. Personally, I am partial to the Subaru Legacy GT. The Infinity G35x is nice too.
Mistakes happen. Lawsuits probably are not appropriate as it would be hard to prove damages. Sure, you might lose the incentlive, but the '06 would presumably have a better residual.
Good Luck.
And Remeber
Thank you!!
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If I back out of my driveway and mistakenly go into our neighbor's yard and run over a bike, I think I should pay to replace the bike.
In our case, the dealer had a contract with a car buyer to deliver a specific car, and they failed to do it. This caused the buyer to suffer to some degree. The dealer should be willing to give some money to the buyer to make up for his mistake. If the dealer refuses to do so, I think a lawsuit is appropriate.
I'm still on the concept the dealer and their salesmen are the professionals. They lost track of something as unimportant as a car sale? NOT.
That's as hard to believe as an aging pop singer wanting some attention in the media having a "wardrobe malfunction" by accident during a scene at the super bowl.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You can't force blood from a turnip.
I think getting a similar car for the buyer would be a good business decision. IF those cars are no longer available, a more reasonable outcome would be to just give any moneys that changed hands be returned. In the long run, if any lawyer would even think about taking on this case, it's going to cost the buyer way more than what the whole ordeal is worth, IMHO. It will make an irritating situation even worse....with no good outcome for either party. The customer still isn't going to get the car they wanted and it's not a slam dunk that either party would prevail in court.
My guess would be, after stringing this out for a month or two or three, no magistrate is going to say that any harm, which monetary damages could be awarded, would take place.
Mistakes are made. Aside from some aggravation, what pain and suffering was experienced that you could attach monetary values?
Gee, next time I get aggravated at my neighbor for blowing his grass clippings in my yard, I think I'll sue him........ :confuse:
what's with all the litigation anyways?! thats what makes everything so much more difficult down the road, everyone is afraid of lawyers trying to sue them left and right...
mistakes happen (believe it or not) - get your money back, look to see what else is available, (infiniti G35x or M35x are great cars, as are the Audi's, and the Acura RL) and move on. yeah, its screwy that the dealer "forgot" they sold the car to someone else - but things happen...maybe after the deal was written, the salesperson quit/was fired, and things got lost in the shuffle with regards to deals. life is too short to dwell on such a small issue.
good luck!
-thene
wow!
I went to McDonald's the other day and got a cheeseburger that didn't have a patty. I was really hunger, i guess I should sue them.
true story.
Such a thing has happened at my dealership before, we offered a refund of the money or offered to track down a similar vehicle to transfer in, at our cost.
What has transpired here is not actionable unless the deposit was not returned in full.
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they should definitely be willing to work with you on a good price for a 2006 - and be sure to tell them as such. hopefully everything works out for you, and that you are happy in your decision!
good luck!
-thene
That boggles my mind. I did some work as a consultant for Chrysler's lease company and they would do just about anything to get someone to extend their lease!