my argument still applies. until you take delivery and they have their money, it isnt sold. they got a better offer. simple as that. if you would have found a better opportunity, you would have certainly broke the agreement too. if the particular dealer has offended you this much, buy one from someone else. they made their business decision, now you make yours.
I would like to assume you really didn't mean to suggest you have such a cavalier attitude to "agreements"!!! Without beating the proverbial dead horse, the real issue is what this particular "agreement" said (and we don't have all the fine print); that is, was it really binding on either side to begin with? If it was binding, then the dealer (or the buyer, as the case may be) can't just break it without subjecting itself to possible consequences (not just the return of the deposit).
Sorry, I felt this was a binding contract and would NOT have tried to get out of it even if I saw a better offer. If I sign my name to what I thought of as a legal binding document I assume it to be as such.
...they did. The car is gone and no getting it back. Maybe, possibly, could be that you could get some compensation via the courts, but is it worth the effort? Assuming that there's no way to extend your lease (still can't see why Volvo wouldn't be dying for you to extend it, but whatever), and you absolutely have to have a specifically specced out 330i, this is what I would do:
1. Go to another BMW dealer, because this one is obviously a loser if all they're telling you is "Oh well". 2. Order the car you want. 3. Rent a car in the meantime.
Now, what I would do is: 1. Go to another BMW dealer, because this one is obviously a loser if all they're telling you is "Oh well". 2. Buy a different 330i and drive home that day.
There is no evidence to support your claim this was a screw job, likewise, there is no evidence to support that this was just an honest mistake. What's done is done.
I have no vested interest in lying to you, I do not work for BMW, and I can tell you point-blank that at dealerships, administrative mistakes like this one happen all the time.
The headache that follows deliberately taking a car from one customer and sneaking it into the hands of another is not worth it. There would have to be a tremendous amount of profit reward for even a shady dealership to do such a thing.
Lastly, let me concur that there is something fishy if Volvo is not willing to extend your lease. I have never heard of a manufacturer being less than thrilled to extend a lease for a vehicle, unless it is a rare, in-high-demand vehicle.
Volvo Finance won't extend leases simply because it isn't worth it to them from a paperwork standpoint. Also, by keeping the car on the books they run the risk of losing more money when they can finally sell the car at auction. The extra payments probably wouldn't make up the difference. Now, if you are ordering a new Volvo, sure they will work with you. If you are planning to buy another brand of car, then obviously they have no reason to help you. Bottom line they want to get the car off the books not carry it around for a few more months.
As for your bimmer adventure, I think it was an honest screw up. Maybe they could pay for a rental car for however long it takes to get you a car. Or better yet, give you a loaner to drive. A Benz store I worked for back east once sold the same car to 2 different people. We had to go all the way to Texas to get a duplicate car, lost $$ on that deal but what can you do? As for your contract status, in alot of states the contract isn't final until you have taken physical possesion and the dealer has recieved funds from the lender(or from you). Until both those things happen you as a consumer can terminate the deal, so can the dealer. Sadly, you did nothing wrong. You figured out what you wanted to drive and how much to pay and set things up pretty well. Someone's incompetence has caused all that to go up in smoke. :mad:
Does Kelley Blue Book's trade-in values seem a little inflated? I put my 2005 Jeep Liberty w/11,000 miles on it and with all the options and it is in good condition and it gave me a price of trade-in value at 16,4. I took it into Toyota about 3-4 weeks ago and they offered me only 14,000 for it all total. I don't understand the disparity between Toyota and Kelley Blue Book as far as trade in value goes. On Edmunds, it gave me 15,4 for the car as trade in value.
1. Kelley and Edmunds tend to overinflate trade-in values on most vehicles (not all though). 2. A Toyota or Honda dealer will likely offer less for your domestic-built car than other dealers.
I'd post your car on the Real World Trade-In Values thread and see what Terry says it's worth.
trade in value is not an exact science, and everyone had different criteria as to why a vehicle is worth what it is worth. most dealers will pay attention to auction reports, because that is a good indicator of what the value of certain vehicles are.
depending on the dealer you are trading into, what kind of deal you got on the new car, what season of the year, color, mile, condition, etc can all affect what number you get on your trade.
remember, edmunds, kbb, nada, are all guides, and need to be taken as such.
...and then again, toyota dealers aren't exactly known for making cheap deals. they're certainly holding at least $500 on your trade, if not a bit more.
.....and speeking of kbb trade in values being inflated, reguardless of what kelly says, heres frank rizzo's official list of crappy trade ins, listed from really bad to you're better off filing bankruptcy.....
10. vw new beetle 9. ford taurus 8. chev malibu / maxx / impala 7. jag s-type 6. land rover discovery 5. dodge ram 1500 quad cab with a hemi 4. pontiac aztec / buick rondezvous 3. p/t cruiser 2. jag x-type ......and the number one crappy trade of all time is......
1. anything made by hyundai, kia, isuzu, or mitsubishi.
stanley2: ARE YOU BEING DEPLOYED OVERSEAS???? IF SO, YOU MIGHT WANT TO RESEARCH THE "SOLDIERS AND SAILORS RELIEF ACT". THIS ACT IS A LAW PASSED THRU CONGRESS POST WWII. THE ACT PROVIDES RELIEF FROM DEBT DURING YOUR DEPLOYMENT. HOPE THIS HELPS....
FYI, an article in the current issue of Automotive news talks about the Employee pricing program.
GM likes it some dealers are ambivalent, others hate it. One caddy dealer said his profit was @ $900 less per copy. Most others are making a little less per copy. It adds up to extra sales, but no extra revenue.
Apparently, GM is planning to lower stickers on the 06 models to keep them in line w/ the actual transaction price of their cars. This would mean less rebates in the future. I don't know that this will work on a buying public addicted to rebates.
I have had several problems with my car......i have been to the dealership 11 times for the same issue, it was just resolved. I have a mazda3 gt 2004 with 5000km Everytime i go there they tell me that i am being to sensitive. my problem first started when they put the wrong size winter tires on and cut pieces off my splash guard. i'm really ticked off. I'm scared that when i sell my car nobody is gonna buy it cause of the problem i have had. Is there anything i can do? This is my first car and all i have had is problems
ROTFL....that list is great. It's funny because those vehicles are also the same ones we try to avoid although I don't think the Impalas are bad....there is always a strong demand for Impalas in my area.
As far as Mitsubishi goes, the Eclipses, Galants, and Lancers do alright, especially the Lancer Evolution.
Overall I think Volkswagen Jetta/Golfs and PT Cruisers are repeatedly the cars that get the worst appraisals. I have dealt with two people in the last two week who wanted to trade in 2005 PT Cruisers. Both people told me they really hated the car. LOL
As an employee of a very large national car dealer network, I can share with you my experience with many cars as far as holding trade-in value as well as how well some of these cars last and how well they're built.
Jaguars - stay away from X-Type: small noisy car, terrible resale value
Volvo/Audi/Saab - expensive to maintain, lots of gadgetry that loves to break, average resale value
Honda/Acura/Toyota/Nissan/Mazda/Lexus/Infiniti/Subaru - super reliable, will last long, good resale
Saturn - quality has been going down for years. Vue is trash, despite it's Honda engine
Isuzu - Buy this vehicle if you like to buy lottery tickets
Hyundai - getting better every year, but you should realize you're going to get pennies when you trade it in. If you keep your car for a long time, this is a good value.
Kia - Trash. There is no reason to buy one of these. Resale is perhaps the worst of all cars.
BMW/Mercedes - You'll pay a lot but you should get a lot when you go to trade it in as long as you don't smoke in it or drive 20,000 miles a year. Exception: Z3/Z4/X3
Ford/Chevy - Hit and miss depending on vehicle/truck. Winner: F150/Corvette/Yukon Denali. Loser: Taurus/Cavalier
One thing that I forgot to mention, however, is these are the same vehicles that we like to have on the lot as the "book" value is usually MUCH higher than actual market value. So what makes these vehicles the nighmares when you're working with a customer who's trading them in makes them the best vehicles often to get a customer with trouble credit approved on. It's a catch 22 in alot of cases. We often look for these vehicles at the auction as they're a steal and book out well. At least at a Toyota store, we don't get alot of call for the domestics (impala, etc) but we usually keep a few on hand for those situations.
..**It adds up to extra sales, but no extra revenue** .....
I read the article and Automotive News needs to get back in the car business and out of the drama business ... of course then their editors wouldn't have a job, now would they.?..l.o.l..
I probably talk with 4/5 fellow dealers a day from all over the country and it's waaaaay to early to get any "real" results on this .. but like any other business move on the planet, for those that were prepared - then it won't be a problem .. for the ones that are still waiting for the 2nd shoe to drop, then it might .... me personally, I'm more concerned about the lenders and how they will view this down the road.
I have just recently moved from NY to NJ but have not gotten a NJ drivers license yet. At the same time I need to purchase a car (to get to work) and have been getting better offers from dealers in PA. I am confused as of what to do first. Do I need to secure a NJ drivers license first or can I buy the car in PA using my NY license? If I go ahead and purchase the car in PA would I be allowed to transfer my NY license to a NJ license and register the new car at the same time (I have already established my residence in NJ and I know I have around 30 days to do the license)?
My husband and I are looking at a Chryler Pacificia. They are offering the employee discount and a rebate. Is there any more room to negoatiate the price down after that or is that as good as it gets?
all those depreciate like bricks. as a used vehicle purchase, as long as you're buying them around book, they're not bad. a friend of mine just bought a used 2003 jaguar x-type with 21000 miles in perfect condition for 18500. not a bad purchase, in my opinion. i would definately not buy any of them new though, unless i particularly wanted them and intended to keep them until their wheels rusted off.
well, I'm just giving my opinion and don't have any real facts to back it up, BUT I would think you should have no problem doing it in any order you want. HOWEVER, I would opt to do the license FIRST and then go buy the car just so that all the most up-to-date info is on all the paperwork for the new car. I would think it would just make your life simpler in the end.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
get the license first - a dealer will require a copy of a license, and would register the car in the state where you have a license from. save yourself the aggravation of doing it any other way - license first! :-)
well, typically, an out-of-state dealer isn't going to register the car for you, i don't think. In any case, I still agree with getting the license first.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
i spoke with the GSM here at the store regarding a previous post (dont feel like going back) about complaining to the manufacturer about crummy service at a dealer. if it were on a survey, and you had bought a car and had crummy service, then you could get somewhere - but if you had crummy service, and didnt buy a car from them, just complained - the manufacturer probably wont do anything. the surveys are very important to dealers, and the manufacturer will will base how much inventory and what kind it gives to dealers based on their scores...
and here's the honorable mention list for crappy trade in values. these cars are just shy of what it takes to make the top ten. in the case of the titan, it should have made the top ten, but i forgot about it, so i'll just make it an honorable mention.
nissan titan ford windstar/freestar nissan quest chev/gmc canyon/colorado with an i-5 engine any hummer model any gm j-body car (cavalier, sunfire, cobalt) pontiac vibe / toyota matrix pontiac grand am
special award for projected crappiest trade in value (drumroll) .....*honda ridgeline*
and thats about it.....now i dont think i've left anyone out.
I made the mistake of buying a car instead of a truck and now regret it. My car is a 2002 Infiniti I35 (paid for) worth about $15k and the pick-up I want shouldn't run more than $12k. Is a dealer going to be at all interested in this trade-in, or should I sell somewhere else, then buy? I need the proceeds from the car to pay for it, since I don't want payments and I know the dealer won't actually be able to make any money on the initial deal. What's the best way to go?
depending on the dealer, they should take that trade in. some may give you less if they only plan to wholesale it. what kind of dealer has the truck you are looking for?
Your drivers license is used as identification only. It shouldn't matter what state it is from so long as it is not expired. Your biggest concern should be insurance. As long as you have insurance in the state that you plan on titling in, you should be fine.
PA isn't going to let a dealer do the registration for you. They should provide you with an MSO and a check for the taxes if you are financing, and you register the car when you get to your home state. I'm in PA , but close to WV and OH and do these all the time.
How many of those things have run thru the lanes so far this year? Somone log onto Manheim and clip/paste the Ridgeline sales from somplace like FAAO. There may be dealers blowing out their inventory just to turn units, but I'd find it hard to believe there are so many at auction that values are plummeting already.
05/25/2005 LOUISVLL $ 29,000 9 X GREEN 6G A X MW 05/25/2005 LOUISVLL $ 29,250 13 X RED 6G A X MW 06/08/2005 DENVER $ 28,300 92 X SILVER 6G A X SW 05/27/2005 MANHEIM $ 31,500 105 X BLACK 6G A NE 05/25/2005 MILWAUKE $ 29,000 2,660 X GRAY 6G A X MW 06/02/2005 OMAHA $ 29,100 5,640 X MRN 6G A X SW
... it's kinda hard to put a "feeling" on these right now ... some Honda dealers are doing well and some are sitting on 20 or 30+ in stock and trying to sell their 1st one, but no one is unhooking yet .... but ya never know.
Terry.
PS: the word that Frnkrzzo used was "projected" -- call me back in 15 months .l.o.l...
That's gotta be a record fast reply from Terry. He must be between accordian lessons and having his woods regripped. :shades:
Yeah, I can see how in some places of the country the Ridgeline may not be all that popular. I don't think we'll see alot of them in NASCAR country, for example. Then again, get a red one and put enough #8 decals on it and the Junior Nation will prolly let it slide.
the ridgeline comment is pure speculation on my part. my logic is will a small pickup truck without a frame or a v-8 selling for about $30000 new have any value as a used truck?....i think ultimately, the answer is no. it doesnt have the utility of a pickup truck which is why they have high resale value in the first place. anyhow, i think i'll try to make a list of the best performing trade ins in each market segment. feel free to agree, dispute, or comment......
the ridgeline comment is pure speculation on my part. my logic is will a small pickup truck without a frame or a v-8 selling for about $30000 new have any value as a used truck?....i think ultimately, the answer is no. it doesnt have the utility of a pickup truck which is why they have high resale value in the first place. anyhow, i think i'll try to make a list of the best performing trade ins in each market segment. feel free to agree, dispute, or comment......
Comments
1. Go to another BMW dealer, because this one is obviously a loser if all they're telling you is "Oh well".
2. Order the car you want.
3. Rent a car in the meantime.
Now, what I would do is:
1. Go to another BMW dealer, because this one is obviously a loser if all they're telling you is "Oh well".
2. Buy a different 330i and drive home that day.
But then, I'm not all that picky.
I have no vested interest in lying to you, I do not work for BMW, and I can tell you point-blank that at dealerships, administrative mistakes like this one happen all the time.
The headache that follows deliberately taking a car from one customer and sneaking it into the hands of another is not worth it. There would have to be a tremendous amount of profit reward for even a shady dealership to do such a thing.
Lastly, let me concur that there is something fishy if Volvo is not willing to extend your lease. I have never heard of a manufacturer being less than thrilled to extend a lease for a vehicle, unless it is a rare, in-high-demand vehicle.
If you are planning to buy another brand of car, then obviously they have no reason to help you.
Bottom line they want to get the car off the books not carry it around for a few more months.
As for your bimmer adventure, I think it was an honest screw up. Maybe they could pay for a rental car for however long it takes to get you a car. Or better yet, give you a loaner to drive. A Benz store I worked for back east once sold the same car to 2 different people. We had to go all the way to Texas to get a duplicate car, lost $$ on that deal but what can you do?
As for your contract status, in alot of states the contract isn't final until you have taken physical possesion and the dealer has recieved funds from the lender(or from you). Until both those things happen you as a consumer can terminate the deal, so can the dealer.
Sadly, you did nothing wrong. You figured out what you wanted to drive and how much to pay and set things up pretty well. Someone's incompetence has caused all that to go up in smoke. :mad:
1. Kelley and Edmunds tend to overinflate trade-in values on most vehicles (not all though).
2. A Toyota or Honda dealer will likely offer less for your domestic-built car than other dealers.
I'd post your car on the Real World Trade-In Values thread and see what Terry says it's worth.
depending on the dealer you are trading into, what kind of deal you got on the new car, what season of the year, color, mile, condition, etc can all affect what number you get on your trade.
remember, edmunds, kbb, nada, are all guides, and need to be taken as such.
-thene
10. vw new beetle
9. ford taurus
8. chev malibu / maxx / impala
7. jag s-type
6. land rover discovery
5. dodge ram 1500 quad cab with a hemi
4. pontiac aztec / buick rondezvous
3. p/t cruiser
2. jag x-type
......and the number one crappy trade of all time is......
1. anything made by hyundai, kia, isuzu, or mitsubishi.
a) Ford Windstar (cringe when we see one coming onto the lot)
b) Dodge Neon
c) Ford Focus
Ken
A lot of the vehicles on that list are a lot of car for the money, so long's they're bought used.
Eh?
-Mathias
GM likes it some dealers are ambivalent, others hate it.
One caddy dealer said his profit was @ $900 less per copy.
Most others are making a little less per copy.
It adds up to extra sales, but no extra revenue.
Apparently, GM is planning to lower stickers on the 06 models to keep them in line w/ the actual transaction price of their cars. This would mean less rebates in the future.
I don't know that this will work on a buying public addicted to rebates.
Don't shoot flames at me, I am asking with all seriousness, are you a dealer, and are these really cars you hate to see come through the dealership?
I don't have any of them, (whew), but it is nice to see what I shouldn't buy, too.
What are the predictions for future yuk cars?
Thanks
Everytime i go there they tell me that i am being to sensitive. my problem first started when they put the wrong size winter tires on and cut pieces off my splash guard. i'm really ticked off. I'm scared that when i sell my car nobody is gonna buy it cause of the problem i have had. Is there anything i can do?
This is my first car and all i have had is problems
As far as Mitsubishi goes, the Eclipses, Galants, and Lancers do alright, especially the Lancer Evolution.
Overall I think Volkswagen Jetta/Golfs and PT Cruisers are repeatedly the cars that get the worst appraisals. I have dealt with two people in the last two week who wanted to trade in 2005 PT Cruisers. Both people told me they really hated the car. LOL
Not all the cars are bad on that list, some are just very expensive to recondition for retail sale (Volkswagens).
Jaguars - stay away from X-Type: small noisy car, terrible resale value
Volvo/Audi/Saab - expensive to maintain, lots of gadgetry that loves to break, average resale value
Honda/Acura/Toyota/Nissan/Mazda/Lexus/Infiniti/Subaru - super reliable, will last long, good resale
Saturn - quality has been going down for years. Vue is trash, despite it's Honda engine
Isuzu - Buy this vehicle if you like to buy lottery tickets
Hyundai - getting better every year, but you should realize you're going to get pennies when you trade it in. If you keep your car for a long time, this is a good value.
Kia - Trash. There is no reason to buy one of these. Resale is perhaps the worst of all cars.
BMW/Mercedes - You'll pay a lot but you should get a lot when you go to trade it in as long as you don't smoke in it or drive 20,000 miles a year. Exception: Z3/Z4/X3
Ford/Chevy - Hit and miss depending on vehicle/truck. Winner: F150/Corvette/Yukon Denali. Loser: Taurus/Cavalier
Ken
Thanks All
Thanks for trying to help. It was "obviously" the wrong person.
I wrote an email to the hosts regarding something that is bothering me... maybe it won't bother us much longer.
And please use lower-case characters here and there... easier to read.
-Mathias
I read the article and Automotive News needs to get back in the car business and out of the drama business ... of course then their editors wouldn't have a job, now would they.?..l.o.l..
I probably talk with 4/5 fellow dealers a day from all over the country and it's waaaaay to early to get any "real" results on this .. but like any other business move on the planet, for those that were prepared - then it won't be a problem .. for the ones that are still waiting for the 2nd shoe to drop, then it might .... me personally, I'm more concerned about the lenders and how they will view this down the road.
Terry.
-thene
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
-thene
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
just so you know
-thene
Terry
nissan titan
ford windstar/freestar
nissan quest
chev/gmc canyon/colorado with an i-5 engine
any hummer model
any gm j-body car (cavalier, sunfire, cobalt)
pontiac vibe / toyota matrix
pontiac grand am
special award for projected crappiest trade in value (drumroll) .....*honda ridgeline*
and thats about it.....now i dont think i've left anyone out.
-thene
Way to early in the game to make such a projection I would think.
PA isn't going to let a dealer do the registration for you. They should provide you with an MSO and a check for the taxes if you are financing, and you register the car when you get to your home state. I'm in PA , but close to WV and OH and do these all the time.
05/25/2005 LOUISVLL $ 29,250 13 X RED 6G A X MW
06/08/2005 DENVER $ 28,300 92 X SILVER 6G A X SW
05/27/2005 MANHEIM $ 31,500 105 X BLACK 6G A NE
05/25/2005 MILWAUKE $ 29,000 2,660 X GRAY 6G A X MW
06/02/2005 OMAHA $ 29,100 5,640 X MRN 6G A X SW
... it's kinda hard to put a "feeling" on these right now ... some Honda dealers are doing well and some are sitting on 20 or 30+ in stock and trying to sell their 1st one, but no one is unhooking yet .... but ya never know.
Terry.
PS: the word that Frnkrzzo used was "projected" -- call me back in 15 months .l.o.l...
Yeah, I can see how in some places of the country the Ridgeline may not be all that popular. I don't think we'll see alot of them in NASCAR country, for example. Then again, get a red one and put enough #8 decals on it and the Junior Nation will prolly let it slide.
economy car-
honda civic (honorable mention mazda 3)
midsize car-
honda accord (honorable mention toyota camry)
large car-
chrysler 300 (honorable mention toyota avalon)
luxury midsize car-
lexus es (honorable mention mercedes e-class)
luxury large car-
lexus gc (honorable mention mercedes s-class)
small suv-
ford escape, mercury mariner, mazda tribute. no quetion.
mid-sized suv-
honda pilot / acura mdx
large suv-
3 way tie ford expedition, chev tahoe, toyota sequoia. assuming all are high end
1/2 ton pickup truck-
ford f-150 crew cab. no real competition here.
heavy duty pickup-
ford crew cab 4x4 with a deisel
mini van-
honda odyssey (all others are crap)
* i didnt include small pickups, because none of them are very good.
economy car-
honda civic (honorable mention mazda 3)
midsize car-
honda accord (honorable mention toyota camry)
large car-
chrysler 300 (honorable mention toyota avalon)
luxury midsize car-
lexus es (honorable mention mercedes e-class)
luxury large car-
lexus gc (honorable mention mercedes s-class)
small suv-
ford escape, mercury mariner, mazda tribute. no quetion.
mid-sized suv-
honda pilot / acura mdx
large suv-
3 way tie ford expedition, chev tahoe, toyota sequoia. assuming all are high end
1/2 ton pickup truck-
ford f-150 crew cab. no real competition here.
heavy duty pickup-
ford crew cab 4x4 with a deisel
mini van-
honda odyssey (all others are crap)
sports car-
05 or newer ford mustang gt
* i didnt include small pickups, because none of them are very good.
I wonder if Chrysler 300 resale value will last longer than that of the PT Cruiser that once was so hot.
Ford Escape resale is probably well below a CRV or RAV4.
Toyota minivans do fine with resale.
Little Toyota pickups are the kings of resale, I think.
Come to think of it, you can plug in Honda (Acura), Toyota (Lexus), BMW, and Mercedes almost anywhere they have an entry.
They registered the car for me and transfered my tag with no hassles at all.
Sounds like a dealer should be able to do the same for you.
Damon
assembly issues, water leaks, etc......................
Another different ridge exclusive site also has many of
the same problems posted.
Not good for only 11k units sold so far.....................