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Comments
Ad fees, shmad fees - who cares? I would not include them when I compute my "$100 over invoice" price.
I like out the door deals, but for unknown reasons, usually don't negotiate that way. Usually, I'm making an offer of $XXXXXX. Don't care what the invoice is (but certainly know what it is before walking in....as well as the incentives). Doesn't matter what the title fee is. Don't need exteneded warranty, etc.
All I should have to figure out at the point of making the offer, is what I figure tax should be on the purchase. I figure the tax at the same time the F&I guy does. Most time we're in agreement. But sometimes, I'll catch a $500 "mistake" when figuring tax, too.
Well, a couple of years ago, my stepson defied his mother and I and bought an early 80's Chevy van for $1000. Rusted out, straight 6 (I think) that leaked oil. He thought that he and his oh-so-capable friends could restore it. Yeah, right.
Anyway, you would think that this would be the perfect trade-in for a deal like this. Well, I'm here to tell you that, like most promotions, it's quite biased towards the dealer.
-> First, you have to inform them of the trade in before you begin negotiations.
-> Second, the minimum trade in value is only allowed if you buy a used (not new) car from them.
-> Third (and I'm sure you saw this one coming), the price of the used cars are totally over inflated. I think we looked at a year or two old Focus (SE 4 door sedan, auto, 20-30K miles on it) and I think the asking price was something like $14K.
"Out the Door" pricing is the BEST way to negotiate. Otherwise, there is too much "gotcha" involved in the process.
If the dealer won't give you an out the door price, he is probably not one you want to deal with.
This dealership was the second Jeep dealership that I check out. At the first dealer, a nice black women showed me two vehicles (her name was printed on her business card) but when I left, she didn't ask me for my name or phone number but gave me a brochure.
I found it interesting that neither sales person knew that much about the vehicles that they were selling. I'm a car guy, I read about car stuff everyday, I get Automobile, Car and Driver and Motorhome magazines..... and read Edmunds most days. But, if I was working at a dealership, I would know that the 4.7 Jeep engine has 235 hp and that if the sticker says it has power folding mirrors, I would know that the mirrors fold in automatically (the female didn't know). Both sales people didn't know rather simple obvious things that a customer would ask. I just don't understand that.
When I asked the salesman from yesterday what the current rebate was, he said $1,500. That rebate officially ended on Oct. 31st (per the Jeep website) and is currently showing $500. If was I buying yesterday, I would be pretty upset if he came in and said, "opps, the rebate is not $1,500, it's $500".
Seems to me if you are around cars everyday, that you would catch on to certain information that bascially pertain to the motor, basic options, etc. :confuse:
Terry, I'm going to post the particulars in "RealWorldTradeinValues" of my 2002 ML500 early December when it's time to trade or FSBO. :P
Mark
I understand it perfectly. Most consumers want only one thing:the lowest price. This implies miniscule commission for salespeople. If I was getting pittances anyway, I would not like to put in a lot of work.
It is better to go into the dealership and do your bidding.
First it's YOUR money, correctly called customer cash. It's as if a rep from the mfg was standing inside the door handing out $3-4-5000 checks.
You have 3 basic options with YOUR money.
A) Reduce the price of the new vehicle
C) Leave the new vehicle price the same and add the rebate to your trade value
( if your trade is a tow-in junker at $100 then they can give you $3500 for it )
D) Have the manufacturer send you the Rebate in the mail at a later date. ( Not a great idea )
To answer your question above if you do bring in a $100 junker it goes to auction but on the contract it looks as if they gave you $3500 for it. You can't also use the $3500 rebate in that case.
First, if the model you are looking for is in great demand, a lot of dealerships may not respond to an e-mail request. After all, you might be (or probably are) e-mailing every dealership within 200 miles for the "best" price. Why would they want to respond to a message where their chance of closing a deal is < 5% when they can meet with serious buyers in person and close 50% of the time.
I like the OTD pricing requests because it gets everything out from and there are no fees to cloud the issue. However, I don't think a lot of places are going to give you anymore than a general quote over an e-mail.
I always will tell the fees ahead of the selling price (Doc fee 298.50, title fee 16.50) but until I have a little more information I can't give them a true OTD number.
Thanks!
When I pull into the dealership, they don't know if I'm a grinder or not. Personally, I don't think I'm a grinder, but I want a fair price like anyone would including the salesperson if "they" were buying a car.
My niece's husband sells body parts (shoulder sockets, knee joints, hips, etc) to doctors, you bet he better know his product and how it works or he's out on the street. His line of work is very competitive and he's making a good living because he lives and breathes his product. He is even in the operating room when the procedure is being done.
I know a lot of the time I will know more about the product than the salesperson because I am totally focused on just one or two vehicles and I read everything I can about that one car/suv/truck. But simple normal questions shouldn't bring a blank look to the salesperson face. :surprise:
Mark
That's the point. Unlike his line of work, the average consumer is not willing to pay more $$ for a knowledgeable salesperson. Hence the deteriorating quality of salespeople, in general.
Another example is airlines:all people want is a cheap price. Result:non existent customer service.
Nothing personal, all I am saying is that Nordstroms of this world are being replaced by Walmarts. And the consumer is dictating that.
Some people have no interest to learn anything other than the basics.
1) You fail to take into account the role of technology. In the past, you had to rely upon the salesman to get any information on the product. Now you go to the internet.
2) People don't mind paying some for service ... but they better get it. The last time that I went to buy a suit at a large department store - one affiliated with the one that you mentioned - I had to wait 40 minutes to find a salesman and then he screwed up the alterations.
3) People don't mind paying some for service - if the price of the service is reasonable. I am NOT going to pay $40 to have a travel agent book me a plane ticket from Chicago to St. Louis when I can do it in under two minutes. Also, I would rather pay $200 for an airline without a meal than pay $400 and be served a 3 oz chicken breast that my dog wouldn't eat. (Quite honestly, the service on the discounters - Southwest and Jetblue - is so much better - and much friendlier than on United or Ted ...
Funny.
Of course they won't pay 3500.00 for a junkyard car that they will have to pay to get hauled off.
I guess this type of advertising still works!
On the other hand there are very few "car guys" shopping for cars in comparison to the large number of average Joe and Jane Carbuyers who only care if the car has a/c and automatic and "whats the best lease payment you can do". So even if I try and explain all the features technology, safety to the average buyers they get bored cause they don't care.
But I totally agree that every salesperson should know their stuff inside and out.
Personally not only do I know my products (Honda) but I also know most of the competitor's products very well.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Many salesmen swore up and down that no one had a van where the second row windows rolled down. They said it was impossible to make one. OK, so they didn't know the competitors products.
But even at Toyota, looking in the Sienna LE, the salesman told me that no, the windows didn't go down. I said, what's that button for, of course it was the window button.
I still bought from that guy, because I had already learned what each van offered, and that he had the van that most closely matched our needs/wants. And, he treated me very nicely. And, he accepted our OTD price with a low amount of fuss (we only had to start to walk out once.
In the end, it was his attitude and respect that even got me to the table to negotiate. (I had already tried two other Toyota dealerships, and was disgusted by the tactics there.)
When I went shopping with my Dad last year for his 2004 Mercury Grand Marquis GS, he didn't care as long as the car was new and had the usual options for a car like that.
If I was in the "car bidness" I would be like you, I would know my product and the other's as well. But, I still think the salespeople should be a little in tune with what they are selling just in case the "rare" person like me asks a question. :P
Have a good day, Mark
Mr. Salesman: That would be #30953456
CarGuy: No that's for one with the sports option the actual part number for a standard model is #30953451.
Mr. Salesman: Oh I stand corrected. By the way I can get you a great price on that car.
CarGuy: Oh that's OK. I'm just testing you and also showing you how brilliant I am. So what's your price ?
Mr. Salesman: Oh I can probably do around $20k over list plus dealer packs. I can also get you a loan at around 19% APR if your credits good. We can also take your late model ride off your hands if it's paid for and doesn't have too many miles on it.
CarGuy: Great ! Lets write it up.
I'm fine for about an hour or so but after that I lose patience. You can't believe the questions we get asked!
And, I'm not one of those who try to learn everything about every car. I'm a lot more knowledgable than most however.
" What is the difference between an LX and a EX?"
I'll hear that one probably 50 times.
And I can't stand watching people TRASH the cars! They slam doors, try to twist the knobs off the dash etc.
Just part of the fun I suppose...
Considering that each manufacturer has their version of vegetable soup, it is no wonder why people ask that question time after time.
I could tell them that Toyota store is giving away 100.00 Nordstrom certificates with every test drive!
That said ... like some of the others have posted .. most (the majority of the buyers) could care less about the product and all of the finite details ... most are looking for that "brand recognition", comfort, convenience and what appeals to them -- and when they've finally targeted that ~ it becomes price and payments ..
Like you, I'm an avid reader and study products before I buy them .. so let's step back from the car biz for a minute and let me give you a perfect example of an industry that runs a parallel market when it comes to buyers ...
The other night I was invited to the new 06 Nike golf Launch event .. there was probably 300 people there and 5 company reps from Nike that do nothing but play, breath and live golf .. and when they're not at one of these events, they're at the Nationwide and Pro tours ... the "highlight" of the night was the new Nike Sasquatch 460 Driver that's had alot of pre-launch, 2 months of advertising - and of course, it's Tigers choice and it's been all over TV .....
In the meantime .. the golf market has changed by leaps and bounds in the last 2 or 3 years, there has been more changes in product and technology now, than in the last 20 or 30 years .... you would think the 5 Nike reps would have been covered up, at least thats what I (and they) thought .. especially with them being there for 3 hours to answer any and all questions .....
Except for a few nut cases like me getting product knowledge and a few others that wanted to brag about the time they shot a 66 at Sawgrass (yeah right ..l.o.l..) those guys were pretty much alone except for a few buyers that wanted to test the club out and get a swing analysis .. I even felt a little sorry for them, so I ordered them some piazza's --- that said, they did sell a boat load of new clubs to the tune of $300 a whack ... 22 variations of the new club and most just came in and just bought it "as is" .. they don't know if it works or not for their skill level - but they "did" get the Big name ..l.o.l... ... no wonder there's so many used clubs on the market ......... just like the car market.
Consumers .. ya gotta love em' ....
Terry
Yeah! I really hate that. For many years I have attended the NAIAS show. Some years I went on the first weekend, and some years the last weekend. The first weekend the cars are mostly pristine, but by the last weekend, you see knobs missing, etc.
And don't try asking questions of the "product specialist" as they don't work for the manufacturers. Like when will xx car be available? They never know.
Last time I bought a car, I tested the salesperson to see how much he knew about his product. It was refreshing at the time to see that he did know about the fine points of the car I bought.
Could you explain some in detail what this means and give a couple examples? Does it means he's one smooth talker?
We had to rush a tech over to fix it. The next day, I read in these forums how "the power door on the display Odyssey was already broken!!"
Before the night was over, someone had stolen the DIPSTICK!
***sigh***
I loved selling cars, just didn't like where I sold them and the tactics used. Maybe someday I'll go back.........problem is it fuels my CCB habits. I've been on the wagon for nearly a year and am trying to stay there!
Ever respond with, " Ohhh, about 3 g's" :surprise:
or how about,"seven letters of the alphabet". :sick:
Maybe,"Since you had to ask sir, perhaps I could direct you to the nearest _______(fill in the blank of your least favorite manufacturer)show area...as I can't fanthom you being able to afford either"
Does sound like fun though...a lifetime of strange/odd memories for a few hectic,slightly stressful evenings.
Check out Using a Car Broker to Buy Your Next Vehicle.
Steve, Host
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Craig....now you honestly have to laugh at that. Ya never know when you're going to need an extra Honda dipstick...... :confuse:
Along those same lines, a couple of years ago I was at the Detroit Auto Show (must they have that when it's so dang cold?). I had wandered over to the GM booth. There were armed guards around a Corvette and some "young'un" being cuffed. When I asked why, one of them pointed me to the hood of the car. When I looked at the struggling kid, he was wearing the emblem around a chain on his neck. I looked at the 'vette....and sure enough....the emblem was missing. Guess he came back to the scene of the crime to find more "body jewelry" and didn't think anyone would notice.
Some punk must have had to shove it down his pants or something?
I think I'll beg off tomorrow...I lack the patience.
Sometimes the difference is more than a trim detail, like a more powerful engine, etc.
It's just that after the 66th time I've answered it, it get's old!