Thanks for the reply... So am I to assume that the invoice price that is listed on websites like KBB, Cars Direct, Edmunds, NADA, etc...doesn't include this admin fee? Would the simple math be....look up the car you like....select the options...get the invoice and msrp price and then add the $585 admin fee to the invoice price and that would be a fairly close and accurate invoice price? My point to all of this would be for me to offer a fair price on a car based on the best info I can find....that way I don't insult the dealer with a very low price and I offer what I think is a fair price.... Does that sound about right?
... **It just looks that those guys have a buying/selling system that puts almost inevitable escalating hostility between customers and salesmen .....**
I think the only person with hostility, is you ....... cost is cost, you can't blame dealers because they're charged an extra $50 or an extra $150 for a vehicle .... when I go to the auctions I don't walk away from a nice clean vehicle because the bidding has gone up $50/$200 ...... $500/$600..? .. depending on the vehicle, that could make the difference ....
Well, I see I struck some nerve here. I am actually quite friendly and gregarious person, when I buy my car and rarely anything can set me off. And I agree, cost is a cost - no doubt about it.
HOWEVER consider this: If the local newspaper ad screams $19K with fine print mentioning fees and taxes to be added. With basic math skills and some reasonable adjustments in any other brand it would mean about $21K+ out of pocket. But in Southeast Toyota after adding (not mentioned anywhere) extra fees and worthless Toyo junk it becomes over $23K. Suddenly we are $1500-$2000 apart, depending if delivery is included in the ad or not. There is basically no way this can be resolved in a non-confrontational manner. But blame it on the customer - they should know that $19K means really $23-$24K, shouldn't they? Just smile and fork it over, bubba. Your friendly Southestearn Toyota dealer is here to help you You don't like it? Oh, you are so hostile!
My problem is not the cost itself (it is what it is), just the untruthful advertising on all levels, including Toyota MSRP ads (they don't include that fee either, do they?). Using same logic we may start advertising Camry for say $10K and when the customer comes, start adding non-negotiable "plant assembly fee", "engineering fee", "supplier delivery fee", "upper management fee", "mid-management fee", etc. Why not, cost is a cost, nothing can be done about that. Ooops, perhpas I should not say that, somebody is just getting an idea...
The idea behind all these crazy fees, and add ons is to confuse the customer. It's much easier for a dealership to squeese out a higher profit if customes can't compare prices on vehilces due to the multitude of unpublished variables.
The "expect nothing"motto is wonderful if one is searching for inner peace. But, if one is running a business, in a management position, or looking for competent service while searching for a vehilce....that motto may get you just that....nothing!
The reason some of us post accurate information is to help those who are finding it difficult to find the information on their own. I am not here to change your mind or debate something that is moot.
Obviously Dino has come across a dealer that had a "screamer ad" and it didnt work out as he had hoped. I understand your frustration but your frustration should be toward the dealer that ran the ad.
mjdj98: you are welcome.....KBB lists the admin fee and additional freight charge on their site and it explains that it is mandatory.
Of course OTD is the best defence. The point is that we should not have to go through such an obstacle course at the first place. At local SEARS I can predict to a penny how much I will pay long before I enter the door. No local "franchise fee", "storage fee" "warehouse to store delivery fee", "fuel surcharge" etc. None of it, just plain price plus tax and perhaps home delivery, if desired. $999+tax means exactly that, not say $999+$25+$50+$33+tax.
Don't tell me cars cannot be sold same manner or that current system is for customer's good. It is in place for one reason and one reason only: to obscure real final cost before the customer comes in. Otherwise, who knows, they might never show up figuring they really can't afford the car, or they may choose to buy a Chevy (or Honda, or else). As long as this system prevails, the relationship will be filled with initial suspicion, lack of trust, and little respect. And things can (and will) get sour very fast and totally unnecessarily, considering that the setup could be much more transparent, if the major participants (i.e. manufacturers and the dealers) chose so. Will they? Don't think so....
Of course, and I really appreciate all the help we are getting here. It is aboslutely invaluable. I learned a lot last year or so, but what kind of bothers me a bit is that the more I learn, the less I like it.
I tend to drill a subject more than necessary, so let me say I am done complaining (for now ).
... **Obviously Dino has come across a dealer that had a "screamer ad" and it didn't work out as he had hoped. I understand your frustration but your frustration should be toward the dealer that ran the ad.......... **
Bingo ..................................!
It's been explained seven different ways from silly for Dino .... but he would rather kick his feet and rant ..... hmm, I think I have a 9 year old nephew like him ..l.o.l.... ............."No soup for you.!" ................. (Seinfeld)
Below is a cut and paste I took off of KBB webpage for a truck that I was researching...the additional freight charge is listed with a price but the Admin charge is what I have listed below and there is no price....
Invoice MSRP Southeast Toyota Administration Charge N/A N/C (Req'd in AL, FL, GA, NC & SC) (Cost Will Be Automatically Included in Dealer Invoice Model Price) .....
but I could have swore at one time when I first brought up the webpage it said $545 but then quickley went to N/A.....
Don't know why...it's almost like it's a hidden charge that they don't want you to see...
I seen your post concerning paying MSRP and then you could figure your total cost and I agree with you up to a point....And I think I would accept that price IF the dealer would give you what KBB and other have listed for the value of your trade in... So it's either take money off the MSRP and give you low trade in value...or pay MSRP and give you a high trade in value....in the end it all washes... I just think some of the confrontations can be reduced by each party having access to correct information...I realize dealerships are in the business of making money just like any other business and I agree with that...up to a point...To bad back when dealerships first started many years ago they didn't have just the one price concept....I know Saturn and some other dealers do that but the old fashion haggle way is just way to strong and so that brings up to modern times.... I am very impressed by this webpage and all who come here to help each other out...it is a very valuable tool... Thanks to all!
Oh goodness! All of us customers have to pay for options, destination fees, admin fees, tax, and tags. Imagine that.... This is stuff everyone has to pay, and there is a clear disclaimer in the ads. It's not like they're falsely advertising. Geez, tax and tags are charged by your state; don't blame the dealer for that. Destination fees and the SET (for Toyota only) are charged by the manufacturer, so don't blame the dealer for that, either. It's really easy to just point the finger at your local dealer for these charges, but these charges are out of their control.
With regards to advertising..... If you were head of advertising for any product, would you really include tax and fees in your advertised price? Your ad price would be higher than everyone else's! Imagine both your store and Walmart selling a stereo for $300, but Walmart doesn't advertise including tax and you do. At, say, 7% tax, that's an advertised price of $321 for you. So if a customer is comparing ads, which one would you choose?
There is a difference between add on fees and sales tax. Sales tax is the same for each dealer (within a county, municipality, or possibly state). Other add on fees are the gotch.
If you go to Walmart, do they add on a warehousing fee? a transfer fee? a shelving fee? a Walmart area franchise fee?
The only reason I mentioned tax and tags is because the original poster included those during his rant.
So if you go to Walmart, they don't charge a warehousing fee, a transfer fee, a shelving fee, nor a Walmart area franchise fee......... But do you get to haggle with a sales associate to get a cheaper price?
I understand my English is not perfect, but I thought I was quite clear - I was NOT talking about disclosed taxes/fees. Not that I like them so much, but any reasonable person with 3 classes of school can find them out. But many fees and add-ons ARE NOT disclosed in newspapers, yet they padd it on every vehicle, thus effectively the actual price is higher than that advertised. Sometimes those things are named (but often are not), but their amounts are hardly ever spelled out.
Charge whatever you like or wish. If you think $1000 dealer's fee is fair and every car in your store needs to have $599 Toyoguard - OK with me, just tell me about it before I show up at your store, not after. Oh, I may not show up at all... That's why you need to "forget" to mention this in your printed ads, isn't it :P
>add-ons ARE NOT disclosed in newspapers, yet they padd it on every vehicle, thus effectively the actual price is higher than that advertised.
And the people put up with it rather than walking out.
The dealer's profit should be in the negotiated price. What they do is negotiate a price with a profit and then add on an automatic profit in mop and glow and fixed fees and so on.
Since you guys are talking about this, I have a few questions.
1. On a certified used car, does the dealer have to pay the manufacturer to certify the car? If so I suppose this would be an add fee not normally presented in the sale price. If I carry a car in to the dealer for warranty work, doesn't the dealer get reimbursed by the manufacturer for the parts and labor?
2. What other fees can I expect when buying a used car?
3. Do the retail prices on Edmunds, KBB, cars.com, etc. include a certified warranty? If not, how much should I add to their prices to get in the "ball park"?
I have done some internet shopping and it is not uncommon to find dealer prices to be several thousand dollars about the internet suggested retail and I don't understand why. If the internet site I mentioned are close some of these dealers are trying to make over 5K on a used car. That just seems kinda steep.
I understand that the dealership has to make money and I have no problem with that. I just don't to get ripped off.
Yes, dealers have to pay a fee to the manufacturer to certify a car. In my experience, dealers list a price that already takes this fee into account in addition to any service or maintenance work that needs to be done in order to pass the Certification. Many warranty-type things would be covered under the manufacturer warranty, but other maintenance-type things would not. (Tires is the most common and usually most expensive maintenance item.) The dealer then also has to pay for any reconditioning work and detail in order to make it presentable on his lot.
Edmunds sometimes has the Certified retail price.... if it's there, it's located right under the retail price.
You have to be careful taking internet prices too seriously on used cars.
Used car prices can vary by market. The internet price is a national average. Also, certified cars can cost considerably more, because the motor co's have pretty stringent standards.
In general, when you buy a car, there are two places the money goes...
1) The dealer... He gets everything that doesn't go to the second place... which is...
2) The government... They get sales tax, sometimes a tire fee.. title fees, temporary tag fees, license fees..
Everything that the dealer gets... no matter how he breaks it down, or how much he paid for the car, or whatever else happens with the money.... is usually taxable..
So, he can list it as...
$15K sale price $500 destination $500 SET fee $495 document fee $300 conveyance fee $200 dealer prep fee..
Etc, etc, etc...
All of that is taxable, because it all goes to the dealer... If it doesn't go to the government, it is taxable... Otherwise, they would sell the car for $1000 with $17,000 in fees, just to save on sales tax...
Some goes to the financing company sometimes. And sometimes some of that financing gets bumped up to benefit the dealer aka "dealer reserve". And sometimes that irritates consumers - Buyer sues dealer over finance charges (Anchorage Daily News - registration may be required).
Weird story.... starts out talking about how she bought a "previously wrecked" vehicle, without it being disclosed... then morphs into a story on finance kickbacks....
My only problem with kickbacks, is that when you get in the finance office, they don't tell you "This is the best rate we'll give you"... They usually say, "This is the best rate you qualify for". Many times, that is patently untrue..
There is a lot of money to be made or lost in the finance office...
.. **The loan came from Denali Alaskan Federal Credit Union. But 5.95 percent wasn't the lowest interest rate that Denali said Hobson qualified for. Denali quoted to Lithia a rate of 4.5 percent, according to court filings. "At no time did Lithia advise plaintiff that Denali had offered a 4.5 percent interest rate on the loan, or that Lithia was going to or did increase the loan interest rate an additional 1.45 percent in order to earn a 'dealer reserve' payment from Denali,"**
12 - 18%, I could see the rumble .... 4.5/5.95% ..? ...... we need to get all the facts here .. she might have been conditioned, it might have been a shorter term, maybe the other lender wanted more $$ down - who knows.? .. there's always more to these stories than one side .....
Besides, these cases have been battled before and nothing has ever come out of it because "reserve" is a legal and binding contract between the dealer and the lender .... but the biggest reason is, mortgage companies do it every second of everyday and we're talking thousand upon thousands of mortgage loans that are done with a dealer/broker loan affiliate ....
I wouldn't be worrying about the extra point, I would worrying about the damage of the vehicle ..l.o.l.... she must be blonde ......
I'm NOT getting a new truck, I gave up, too expensive to buy used and WAY too expensive to buy new. I'll keep what I have and turn in my CCBA membership card if needed. :P
Akangl, how much longer do you have for the lease on the Titan? I think I read on the CCBA post that you are at least $7,000 upside down?
If so, I agree with you that it is WAY to expensive to trade and lose that much money. Time goes by so fast that before you know it, it will be time to give back the Titan and you can buy/lease that big dually diesel crew cab that you have been craving.
Your membership card cannot be revoked, you are a Platinum Lifetime Member!
Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
You guys are too funny. I'm still considering the pony (and yes, I've been there done that and have a lifetime membership to the CPBA), however, hubby and I stopped by the Ford dealer tonight (big mistake) and found a nice truck that we are seriously considering.
Have to have the Titan appraised tomorrow..........this is the last time I even mess with this, so if this truck doesn't work out then I'm done and the Titan will stay.
I have 3 years left on the Titan's lease and already have 2 years worth of miles on it!
I am moving from a big city (Washington DC) to a small town (Traverse City MI). We need to buy a new car. Do you get a better price in the big city or the small town? I was assuming that DC would be better prices, but then I'd have to drive it to MI, and I'd have no relationship with the dealer in MI.
Any advice on the pros and cons of either option would be appreciated - or just opinions on which way to go. (If it matters, we are probably buying an SUV/4WD of some type).
I am in the same situation as you...although I won't be moving until next spring.... Florida to South Dakota.....and IMO you would think buying in a big city would be the thing to do since there is more competition....but what I would do is maybe contact the dealer in the city where you are going....hopefully through the internet and see what kind of prices they give you....it may turn out that the smaller dealership may or may not need a big profit margin....if I was a bettin' man I would say the big city is where you will need to buy.....just by the sure volume of sales in the big city would equal a lower price...(you would think)...these are just my opinions of course...good luck...
Don't forget the state tax implications. For example, here in NC they charge a large one time tax whenever you register a car for the first time, even if you already owned it. If both the states you are moving from and to do the same, you could be paying twice in a short time.
You might want to post the states involved as see if the dealers here can tell you what those states charge.
It can depend on a bunch of things, location may be one, demand for the vehicle you're looking at is another, and how aggressive you are is another. But, let me relate MY experience: quote #1 was from a very high volume seller in a suburb of a big city about 45 miles away. They offered a great price, no haggle. On the face of it it sure seemed like the deal to beat. In fact, I spent a lot of time beating it. quote #2 was from a dealer in a much smaller town which wouldn't even be considered one of our suburbs. When I related my quote from #1, the INSISTED something was left out of the quote. They INSISTED that it was too good to be true, that NO DEALER could EVER offer that price. It was a trick. BYE BYE!!! quote #3 was from another dealer in another large town south of here. They got close to quote #1 but absolutely wouldn't match it and wouldn't budge an inch. They were polite tho. quote #4, where I bought, was from a dealer right here in town (a very large town). Their price was so good I still can't figure it out. It was WAY less than quote #1 even. How did they do that?????
So what does this tell you? Good question. I have a hunch it may not matter whether you buy in a big city or a smaller one. I think it has everything to do with doing your homework, knowing what's realistic, and then being extremely aggressive with your numbers and your negotiating style. That seemed to work for me anyway.
...in Traverse City. It's a big enough town that the prices should be somewhat competitive, and then you don't have to worry about registering the car twice.
Plus, half the people in Michigan works for car companies so a coworker or neighbor might be able to get you a discount plan. ;-)
I am moving from a big city (Washington DC) to a small town (Traverse City MI). We need to buy a new car. Do you get a better price in the big city or the small town? I was assuming that DC would be better prices, but then I'd have to drive it to MI, and I'd have no relationship with the dealer in MI.
Any advice on the pros and cons of either option would be appreciated - or just opinions on which way to go. (If it matters, we are probably buying an SUV/4WD of some type).
Hey, welcome to the Great Lakes State! You will be blown away by how much you'll love TC compared to DC. I'm envious, I'd love to move to TC (I'm in Grand Rapids). You don't really need a 4WD/SUV type vehicle, but you DO need at least FWD. Nothing with low-profile tires, either.
That said, you will probably find TC-area dealers to be a very, very laid-back and honest lot. My brother did an internship with the NWS in DC, and couldn't wait to get back to Michigan. You'll love it here, it's like being on vacation 24/7/365. It's why my parents moved up here from Chicago when I was a baby.
One other thing - if you're used to "big city" DC driving, you will want something with good gas mileage. In Michigan everything is WAAAAY spread out; you will find yourself putting a whole lot more miles on your vehicles than you used to.
The most interesting stories wind up in the Anchorage paper:
"An Anchorage used-car salesman, who uses ethics and religion as a marketing strategy, said he has become the subject of arson threats because of radio ads he is running."
Regarding your 'quote #4'. Is it possible the last quote came after some kind of rebate (or increased rebate amount) started? A rebate that the previous 3 quotes, from a probably earlier time period, did not include.
How does a dealership check out a person that wants to but a vehicle in the business name? I know for an individual, you can get a FICO score or whatever, but what about a persons business?
Comments
Thanks for the reply...
So am I to assume that the invoice price that is listed on websites like KBB, Cars Direct, Edmunds, NADA, etc...doesn't include this admin fee?
Would the simple math be....look up the car you like....select the options...get the invoice and msrp price and then add the $585 admin fee to the invoice price and that would be a fairly close and accurate invoice price?
My point to all of this would be for me to offer a fair price on a car based on the best info I can find....that way I don't insult the dealer with a very low price and I offer what I think is a fair price....
Does that sound about right?
I think the only person with hostility, is you ....... cost is cost, you can't blame dealers because they're charged an extra $50 or an extra $150 for a vehicle .... when I go to the auctions I don't walk away from a nice clean vehicle because the bidding has gone up $50/$200 ...... $500/$600..? .. depending on the vehicle, that could make the difference ....
Terry
HOWEVER consider this:
If the local newspaper ad screams $19K with fine print mentioning fees and taxes to be added. With basic math skills and some reasonable adjustments in any other brand it would mean about $21K+ out of pocket. But in Southeast Toyota after adding (not mentioned anywhere) extra fees and worthless Toyo junk it becomes over $23K. Suddenly we are $1500-$2000 apart, depending if delivery is included in the ad or not. There is basically no way this can be resolved in a non-confrontational manner. But blame it on the customer - they should know that $19K means really $23-$24K, shouldn't they? Just smile and fork it over, bubba. Your friendly Southestearn Toyota dealer is here to help you
My problem is not the cost itself (it is what it is), just the untruthful advertising on all levels, including Toyota MSRP ads (they don't include that fee either, do they?). Using same logic we may start advertising Camry for say $10K and when the customer comes, start adding non-negotiable "plant assembly fee", "engineering fee", "supplier delivery fee", "upper management fee", "mid-management fee", etc. Why not, cost is a cost, nothing can be done about that. Ooops, perhpas I should not say that, somebody is just getting an idea...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The idea behind all these crazy fees, and add ons is to confuse the customer. It's much easier for a dealership to squeese out a higher profit if customes can't compare prices on vehilces due to the multitude of unpublished variables.
The "expect nothing"motto is wonderful if one is searching for inner peace. But, if one is running a business, in a management position, or looking for competent service while searching for a vehilce....that motto may get you just that....nothing!
Is there anything more important to search for?
Obviously Dino has come across a dealer that had a "screamer ad" and it didnt work out as he had hoped. I understand your frustration but your frustration should be toward the dealer that ran the ad.
mjdj98:
you are welcome.....KBB lists the admin fee and additional freight charge on their site and it explains that it is mandatory.
Don't tell me cars cannot be sold same manner or that current system is for customer's good. It is in place for one reason and one reason only: to obscure real final cost before the customer comes in. Otherwise, who knows, they might never show up figuring they really can't afford the car, or they may choose to buy a Chevy (or Honda, or else). As long as this system prevails, the relationship will be filled with initial suspicion, lack of trust, and little respect. And things can (and will) get sour very fast and totally unnecessarily, considering that the setup could be much more transparent, if the major participants (i.e. manufacturers and the dealers) chose so. Will they? Don't think so....
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I tend to drill a subject more than necessary, so let me say I am done complaining (for now
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Bingo ..................................!
It's been explained seven different ways from silly for Dino .... but he would rather kick his feet and rant ..... hmm, I think I have a 9 year old nephew like him ..l.o.l.... ............."No soup for you.!" ................. (Seinfeld)
Terry :P
Unless you buy tires from them ....
Or appliances ...
Or buy a men's suit from them ....
Below is a cut and paste I took off of KBB webpage for a truck that I was researching...the additional freight charge is listed with a price but the Admin charge is what I have listed below and there is no price....
Invoice MSRP
Southeast Toyota Administration Charge N/A N/C
(Req'd in AL, FL, GA, NC & SC) (Cost Will Be Automatically Included in Dealer Invoice Model Price) .....
but I could have swore at one time when I first brought up the webpage it said $545 but then quickley went to N/A.....
Don't know why...it's almost like it's a hidden charge that they don't want you to see...
I seen your post concerning paying MSRP and then you could figure your total cost and I agree with you up to a point....And I think I would accept that price IF the dealer would give you what KBB and other have listed for the value of your trade in...
So it's either take money off the MSRP and give you low trade in value...or pay MSRP and give you a high trade in value....in the end it all washes...
I just think some of the confrontations can be reduced by each party having access to correct information...I realize dealerships are in the business of making money just like any other business and I agree with that...up to a point...To bad back when dealerships first started many years ago they didn't have just the one price concept....I know Saturn and some other dealers do that but the old fashion haggle way is just way to strong and so that brings up to modern times....
I am very impressed by this webpage and all who come here to help each other out...it is a very valuable tool...
Thanks to all!
With regards to advertising..... If you were head of advertising for any product, would you really include tax and fees in your advertised price? Your ad price would be higher than everyone else's! Imagine both your store and Walmart selling a stereo for $300, but Walmart doesn't advertise including tax and you do. At, say, 7% tax, that's an advertised price of $321 for you. So if a customer is comparing ads, which one would you choose?
If you go to Walmart, do they add on a warehousing fee? a transfer fee? a shelving fee? a Walmart area franchise fee?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So if you go to Walmart, they don't charge a warehousing fee, a transfer fee, a shelving fee, nor a Walmart area franchise fee......... But do you get to haggle with a sales associate to get a cheaper price?
(sorry, couldn't resist that one!)
Charge whatever you like or wish. If you think $1000 dealer's fee is fair and every car in your store needs to have $599 Toyoguard - OK with me, just tell me about it before I show up at your store, not after. Oh, I may not show up at all... That's why you need to "forget" to mention this in your printed ads, isn't it :P
2018 430i Gran Coupe
And the people put up with it rather than walking out.
The dealer's profit should be in the negotiated price. What they do is negotiate a price with a profit and then add on an automatic profit in mop and glow and fixed fees and so on.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
1. On a certified used car, does the dealer have to pay the manufacturer to certify the car? If so I suppose this would be an add fee not normally presented in the sale price. If I carry a car in to the dealer for warranty work, doesn't the dealer get reimbursed by the manufacturer for the parts and labor?
2. What other fees can I expect when buying a used car?
3. Do the retail prices on Edmunds, KBB, cars.com, etc. include a certified warranty? If not, how much should I add to their prices to get in the "ball park"?
I have done some internet shopping and it is not uncommon to find dealer prices to be several thousand dollars about the internet suggested retail and I don't understand why. If the internet site I mentioned are close some of these dealers are trying to make over 5K on a used car. That just seems kinda steep.
I understand that the dealership has to make money and I have no problem with that. I just don't to get ripped off.
Thanks in advance for your help guys!
Edmunds sometimes has the Certified retail price.... if it's there, it's located right under the retail price.
Used car prices can vary by market. The internet price is a national average.
Also, certified cars can cost considerably more, because the motor co's have pretty stringent standards.
Everthing can be ridiculed. I know you guys get it and I get it, too - better to simply pretend something else was said and than beat on it.
I'm tired of trying. We obviously aren't getting anywhere, so lets move on.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
1) The dealer... He gets everything that doesn't go to the second place... which is...
2) The government... They get sales tax, sometimes a tire fee.. title fees, temporary tag fees, license fees..
Everything that the dealer gets... no matter how he breaks it down, or how much he paid for the car, or whatever else happens with the money.... is usually taxable..
So, he can list it as...
$15K sale price
$500 destination
$500 SET fee
$495 document fee
$300 conveyance fee
$200 dealer prep fee..
Etc, etc, etc...
All of that is taxable, because it all goes to the dealer... If it doesn't go to the government, it is taxable... Otherwise, they would sell the car for $1000 with $17,000 in fees, just to save on sales tax...
Hope this helps,
kyfdx
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My only problem with kickbacks, is that when you get in the finance office, they don't tell you "This is the best rate we'll give you"... They usually say, "This is the best rate you qualify for". Many times, that is patently untrue..
There is a lot of money to be made or lost in the finance office...
regards,
kyfdx
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But 5.95 percent wasn't the lowest interest rate that Denali said Hobson qualified for. Denali quoted to Lithia a rate of 4.5 percent, according to court filings.
"At no time did Lithia advise plaintiff that Denali had offered a 4.5 percent interest rate on the loan, or that Lithia was going to or did increase the loan interest rate an additional 1.45 percent in order to earn a 'dealer reserve' payment from Denali,"**
12 - 18%, I could see the rumble .... 4.5/5.95% ..? ...... we need to get all the facts here .. she might have been conditioned, it might have been a shorter term, maybe the other lender wanted more $$ down - who knows.? .. there's always more to these stories than one side .....
Besides, these cases have been battled before and nothing has ever come out of it because "reserve" is a legal and binding contract between the dealer and the lender .... but the biggest reason is, mortgage companies do it every second of everyday and we're talking thousand upon thousands of mortgage loans that are done with a dealer/broker loan affiliate ....
I wouldn't be worrying about the extra point, I would worrying about the damage of the vehicle ..l.o.l.... she must be blonde ......
Terry
Steve, Host
Here's another short version of the story: KTVA
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Chronic Pony Buyers Anonymous
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Hasn't Jolie been there and done that??
I think I read on the CCBA post that you are at least $7,000 upside down?
If so, I agree with you that it is WAY to expensive to trade and lose that much money. Time goes by so fast that before you know it, it will be time to give back the Titan and you can buy/lease that big dually diesel crew cab that you have been craving.
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Mark
Have to have the Titan appraised tomorrow..........this is the last time I even mess with this, so if this truck doesn't work out then I'm done and the Titan will stay.
I have 3 years left on the Titan's lease and already have 2 years worth of miles on it!
Any advice on the pros and cons of either option would be appreciated - or just opinions on which way to go. (If it matters, we are probably buying an SUV/4WD of some type).
Thanks!
Florida to South Dakota.....and IMO you would think buying in a big city would be the thing to do since there is more competition....but what I would do is maybe contact the dealer in the city where you are going....hopefully through the internet and see what kind of prices they give you....it may turn out that the smaller dealership may or may not need a big profit margin....if I was a bettin' man I would say the big city is where you will need to buy.....just by the sure volume of sales in the big city would equal a lower price...(you would think)...these are just my opinions of course...good luck...
You might want to post the states involved as see if the dealers here can tell you what those states charge.
quote #1 was from a very high volume seller in a suburb of a big city about 45 miles away. They offered a great price, no haggle. On the face of it it sure seemed like the deal to beat. In fact, I spent a lot of time beating it.
quote #2 was from a dealer in a much smaller town which wouldn't even be considered one of our suburbs. When I related my quote from #1, the INSISTED something was left out of the quote. They INSISTED that it was too good to be true, that NO DEALER could EVER offer that price. It was a trick. BYE BYE!!!
quote #3 was from another dealer in another large town south of here. They got close to quote #1 but absolutely wouldn't match it and wouldn't budge an inch. They were polite tho.
quote #4, where I bought, was from a dealer right here in town (a very large town). Their price was so good I still can't figure it out. It was WAY less than quote #1 even. How did they do that?????
So what does this tell you? Good question. I have a hunch it may not matter whether you buy in a big city or a smaller one. I think it has everything to do with doing your homework, knowing what's realistic, and then being extremely aggressive with your numbers and your negotiating style. That seemed to work for me anyway.
Plus, half the people in Michigan works for car companies so a coworker or neighbor might be able to get you a discount plan. ;-)
Any advice on the pros and cons of either option would be appreciated - or just opinions on which way to go. (If it matters, we are probably buying an SUV/4WD of some type).
Hey, welcome to the Great Lakes State! You will be blown away by how much you'll love TC compared to DC. I'm envious, I'd love to move to TC (I'm in Grand Rapids). You don't really need a 4WD/SUV type vehicle, but you DO need at least FWD. Nothing with low-profile tires, either.
That said, you will probably find TC-area dealers to be a very, very laid-back and honest lot. My brother did an internship with the NWS in DC, and couldn't wait to get back to Michigan. You'll love it here, it's like being on vacation 24/7/365. It's why my parents moved up here from Chicago when I was a baby.
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