Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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As for 135k miles. Yes, I admit things will happen. However, my wife commuted 40 miles a day for 6 years on a flat highway and has babied this thing since we owned it. 3000 mile oil changes. Never towed with it. Never drove it hard. We have replaced the alternator, two water pumps, half of the dashboard lights don't work anymore. Passenger Seat Heater broke. Both back windows no longer automatically go up. The list goes on. And now, a head gasket! It just seems too much. Maybe we got a lemon. Who knows.
And finally, the real reason we are not getting another Subaru, my wife "needs" a 3rd row seat and I don't think Subaru has one to offer. So, Honda Pilot, here we come.
Sorry for the long post, I'm sure that's more info than anyone wanted, but it sure beats doing work.
I didn't argue or try to discuss because I didn't have the paperwork in front of me at the time.
The only reference that the dealer has to the original "agreed upon price" is of a hand-written peice of paper that they pull out when they tell you how much they'll give you for your trade-in (no signatures... it was roughly a paper I saw for a brief 30 seconds when they were writing down how much they'd give me for my tradein). I haggled with them on the trade-in for about an hour and they wouldn't give any more than they first decided. So I just gave in.
I'm betting what you paid was their break even point number. They would have made 3k on the sale if they hadn't screwed up.
The jipster has reread your posts and is going to do a slight about face. :surprise: Legally you still owe them squat. Morally you do owe them 3 grand.
After reading you latest post...if the dealership has documentation with your signature on it stating you agree to a 3k price on your trade in, then can show where it deducted twice that amount...well, you may be up the creek.
Without having signed anything verifying the extra 3 grand, the dealership has no claim over the money. It is their mistake, and legally, I don't think they have a leg to stand on.
However, morally speaking, you did agree to the higher number and you even acknowledge this fact. Therefore, in my opinion, you should pay it.
I can also tell you with almost 100% certainty that the dealership will be losing big money on the deal without the $3000. Car dealers don't have that kind of profit margin on new cars. I highly doubt that the $3000 was the "break even point".
> and 60 minutes finding one store doing underhanded things and
> then making it sound like all dealers exercise the same
> tactics.
No, the reason the opinion polls are so bad is because the vast majority of car buyers have experienced at least one very sour transaction with a dealer.
I'll be the first to say that not all dealers are crummy and bad, but out of the last three new-car buying experiences I have had, two have been with dealers or salesmen who tried to pull some pretty sleazy stuf, and that's just when I was actually ready to sign.
Let's say only one out of three dealership actually does the high-pressure sleazy stuff. What that means that pretty much every time I look for a car I'm likely to have a bad experience with somebody.
That is why the reputation is so poor. Not because all dealers are sleazy, but because enough are that one always has to be on one's guard.
I've seen customers complain to the manufacturer because they didn't feel they where given enough for their trade; or their interest rate was too high; or service prices where too high; or that the rebate changed (not the dealer's fault btw); or that somebody had the audacity to mention the fact that an extended warranty was available.
My point is that some people are just looking for reasons to hate car dealers. These are the people who seem to think that some "sleazy" stuff has been pulled on them.
Also, the reputation of car dealers is largely dependent on 60 minutes, 20/20, and web sites such as Edmunds. We are painted in a very bad light by the media. When one bad dealer is found, it is commonplace to imply that all dealers use the same tactics.
MSRP is way too much money for G35. This time of the year it generally sells close to invoice. The reason why they didn’t catch the mistake is because the price you ended up with is not out of ordinary.
OK, let me have it.
high-end car dealership are good in general. such as BMW, MB, porsche.
other dealerships, such as GM/Ford, honda/toyota. 2/3 of them playing games. and if the saleperson in those dealership found out the buyer is not very knowledgeful, man, it because brutal.
BTW, a contract is a contract. there's no such thing as good well.
> some in "looking" for potential problems?
You are trying to make this personal, but the point is that everyone, everyone, everyone, has stories to tell about some trick some dealer either succesfully pulled or tried to pull. Are we all just looking for trouble? Somehow, I don't think so.
There are great dealers out there. But the percentage of dealers that are sleazy is quite high--and even if it's only 1/3, that's enough to give everyone a pretty bad reputation, unfortunately.
would you consider that you are looking for personal attacks in posts that are not there? (just kidding)
Have a happy holiday season
This probably isn't the place to get into a discussion about this, but I think a lot of folks disagree with that statement. Whether you're religious and believe in divine retribution or simply believe in karma, most of of us live by a code of ethics because we feel it's the appropriate thing to do.
Anyway, my grandmother's advice is very fitting here, "Two wrongs don't make a right!"
Acura was the biggest joke yet! The dealer told me that they didnt let people test drive RSXs and acted like the car was an NSX not an RSX.
They also have the right to restrict test driving of cars that attract joyriders like an RSX.
"Morally you owe them 3 grand"
Exactly!
I'd guess isell.. and others can confirm it's a common occurance
1. The poor opinion of car salesmen is not a myth. Most are amazingly uneducated about their product, annoying in their tactics, and some are even dishonest.
2. Not all salesmen are bad. There are a few smart ones working for smart dealers who are no-nonsense, or at least smart enough to recognize an educated, experienced buyer and knock off the BS before it ruins an easy sale.
3. Some salesmen are so pathetic you actually feel sorry for them. You're two steps ahead of their games the whole way. But unfortunately they often ruin what would be an easy sale for the dealer when they turn off buyers.
4. Service writers often turn off repeat business, they act too busy to actually slow down and communicate. Not good when you're talking about hundreds of dollars of work and they make $200/day. Surely they can slow down enough to get the facts straight and avoid problems later. If sales managers knew how many potential future buyers are turned off to the brand by their service department screwups they'd run over there and shoot them themselves.
Suggestion: Hire salaried knowledgeable car guys to demonstrate and inform the customer. No sales BS. They will stick around longer than commissioned guys and you'll annoy fewer folks. Then turn them over to the snakes once they're ready to buy.
Give the customer who knows what he wants and just wants a price the option of skipping the whole salesman stuff. Many do this through their internet/fleet managers, but that's not always the case there.
I was dead set on buying an '06 VW Jetta until I actually met the salesmen at their dealerships. One kid there didn't know Audi was the same company. Another couldn't speak English well enough to give directions back to the lot. Pathetic. Either hire grownups or don't use them at all.
So after all of the advice, what are you going to do?
In my opinion, it's a done deal. You got the car for $3K less than you thought you would have to pay. You got lucky. Good for you.
Myob, how would these things have kept you from enjoying the car once you owned it?
I actually had a finance manager ruin a sale for the salesperson because he said he wouldnt give me the Mazda's S-plan price (which I qualified for) until they ran my credit. I told him that the discounted selling price of the car had nothing to do with my credit whether it was 720 or 480. After arguing with him for 15 mins I requested to speak to the general manager and they finally agreed to show me the price. I told the salesmen, who was very friendly, when I walked out, that I apologize but if I buy this car I will not be returning to purchase it from this dealership because of the dealer's practices.
Funny thing is that just a couple years earlier my brother had been looking to purchase a Jetta from this same dealer. He test drove the vehicle parked it next to the building and went in to negotiate a price. This was a 100% buying situation that day with him if they could work out a reasonable price. He sat down to talk to the salesman and while he was doing that another salesman let someone take the car for a test drive came back and said it was sold not even giving him 45mins to work something out. Do you feel this is correct practice.
Yeah, it sounds corect to me, Gmecca. It should not have taken your brother 45 minutes to say, "I'll take it".
You snooze, you lose.
Prius buyers are some of the most self-confident, assured, relaxed and pleasant buyers as there are in the whole market. In additon, they invariable enjoy the experience, continue to come back for service and give the store the highest marks on the SCI surveys.
Every store has these buyers but one single group to me is remarkable.
So after all of the advice, what are you going to do?
I still have not decided. I would like to talk to him again first (as much as I'm looking forward to that!! :P ) and simply tell him I don't see the "addition and subtraction" mistake on the contract he referred to, and that as far as I see it, he's got the check for the total amount on the contract he signed. Depending on what he says and how he goes about it will probably determine what happens next. I'm sure he'll tell me something like "but we agreed on this price, remember??"
Ill just ask him if he perhaps has a piece of paper to prove it and fax it to me, because I don't have anything like that. I'm willing to negotiate on what happens next. I'm sure he knows that I know by now, and I'm hoping he still doesn't treat me like an idiot. But... I'm willing to negotiate... perhaps giving me more for my trade-in... like to the amount the sales manager at the dealer I took my trade-in car to told me to take (I personally called and asked him). That right there was a $1500 difference than what they gave me. I'm not trying to rip them off with my trade-in. I honestly believe I deserved more for that car anyway, they could see I was desperate to get rid of it. From all the research I've done, they could easily sell my car for $6000+. But, according to them, they don't sell used cars that are more than a year or two old... they claim to "sell it directly to a dealer of that type of manufacture for the same price that they paid me for it".
A few people in each store
a. know the product,
b. know how to interact with the public,
c. know how to listen to what the client wants,
d. know how to do the negotiation properly,
e. do all of this, work hard and make a good living.
If it was me on the other side, I'd ask for the Sales Mgr, tell him I am a serious buyer at his store today and I want his most knowledgable sales person.
If you have done your homework..
know what vehicle you want, the real market value of it, know the value of your trade ( tradein value not retail ), know your credit standing or have alternate sources for financing..
the experienced sales person will recognize this and things will go smoothly. If you get a newbie and who is stuck at every step you both will get frustrated and things may get messy.
A general rule is first signed buyers order with deposit gets the vehicle. It happens a few times a year. Big stores have enough inventory that there are usually several of that model/color in stock.
From their point of view .. If someone wants this vehicle now and you are still 'thinking it over' who should get it?
Anyone else have the barrage of calls begging for good ratings once you purchase a car?
Dealers: If that much energy was put into the actual sales process, I might give you a 6 out of 5.
You may work for an honest dealership, but that doesn't mean the vast majority of dealers are honest. I've been in 12-15 dealerships in the last month while I've been car shopping. Out of five dealerships I've made offers to, all five have tried to do something dishonest. From slipping a warranty into the finance rate without telling me to quoting one price then quoting my payment on another amount.
Car dealers have one of the worst reputations of any profession. There is a reason for that. Unfortunately, it makes it harder for honest guys in the business to get much respect.
Customers have to be skeptical or they will be taken advantage of. Most dealers seize every opportunity they can to get another dollar by any means and they prey on ignorance.
Actually, the Infiniti G35x has a base MSRP of $33,750, invoice of $31,092. That's $2,658 plus 1% dealer holdback, so there is actually $2,995 between MSRP and "break even". Depending on what options the car has, it would be over $3,000.
Here's my question- I went to two different Mazda dealers. While trying to deal with the first one, they said 19% interest was the best they could offer me and barely discounted the car. I told them I wasn't buying at the price/interest rate.
The second dealer quoted me a price of $1200 off sticker and, after pulling my credit, gave me an 11.99% interest rate. Here's the clincher- the financing is through Mazda Credit.
Why didn't the first dealer even attempt to get me financed thru Mazda? It seems to me that they had absolutely interest in getting me lower than 19% or they would have went thru their own brand's financing company?
At least dealer number two got me a great rate. They did try to force me into buying an extended warranty, but when I threatened to get my dad to cosign elsewhere that requirement suddenly went away.
Can anyone comment on financing practices for those with less than good/average credit?
So he wins the auction - pretty cheaply - and goes to drive the thing home. The engine and airbag lights are both on, and the tranny is obviously shot. He didn't even make it home, just called Suzuki roadside assistance and had it towed to the dealer. Based on the Carfax in service date it still has 4 months and 35,478(?!?) miles left on the 3/36 bumper to bumper, and most of the 7/100 powertrain. The dealer hooked up the computer and said there was an "accident code" that was causing the airbag light, and that he would have to have the Suzuki factory rep make the call on whether or not it would be covered.
So my question is, when can the manuf. void the warranty? Is it only when there has been a salvage / rebuilt / buyback title issued, or any time there has been a major accident?
Thanks,
Jason
Especially if you're going to go back to the dealer to service your Pilot that you are planning to buy.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Did you test drive the car you want to buy yet?
If no then go and test drive it and see if it fits you.
If yes then go back to the salesperson that showed you the car you want to buy (if you had a good experience) and give them a chance to earn your business.
The price depends on what incentives there oare out there, and/or if the car is a hot seller.
If you need a car within a couple of days then tell your salesperon that and see if it's possible to get one. If they can't get one within your time frame then call other dealers and see who has one.
If you find another dealer that can give you a lower price (in person not over the phone), then give the original dealer one more chance to beat it.
The key in my opinion is go where you received the best service, and be upfront about your intentions, and what you're willing to pay, and i'm sure you'll not only get a great but also good treatment from your salesperson.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
If a vehicle is rebuilt, it is usually done with parts from other wrecks, or with recycled parts, unless specified.
Many body shops will buy wrecks at auctions, rebuild them with parts from other wrecks, and sell the car.
A manufacturer can only warranty the original parts on the car, not parts that have unknown origins, or mileage.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
LOL. I'm glad I didn't disappoint you. Does this mean I'm back on your Christmas list? :shades:
Why negotiate?. That's like admitting to the dealership that you were wrong about the price. You should either give it all back...or nothing. If you wanted to negotiate a better price for your trade-in , the time for that was at the dealership before you signed the contract, not after.
Three thousand bucks will buy a lot of Christmas turkeys and eggnog. What would the rest of you guys do if you were in veekayes shoes?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Salesperson (SP): Do you like the car? Are you ready to take it home?
You: Yes, I'm buying if we can come to terms on a price.
SP: What price do you have in mind?
You: $XX,XXX!
SP: We can/can't work with that price. Or....Let me take it to my manager. Or, we're about $XXX apart, let's get into the ballpark and let you take this car home.
You: Yes or No.
End of discussion. Takes maybe 5-10 minutes.
BTW, "S plan" is totally a voluntary price the dealer can offer. The dealer isn't obligated to offer it to you, regardless of whether you qualify for it or not. You are right about one thing, if the dealership decides to offer you the "S-plan" price is totally divorced from your credit score, although that's probably a sign that they wanted to make sure they could get you financed before going through all of the paperwork. Personally, it never bothers me when they want to do a credit check. I usually have a letter from my credit union for financing or my checkbook to pay for the vehicle. They usually don't bother since one of the buying tactics I use is to bring 10 or 20-$100 bills that I put on the table when they ask me if I'm willing to buy today. I find the shortcuts a lot of bantering about whether I'm a buyer or not.
Most times they will want to know the model and color you want before negotiating. They will look and see if they have or can get what you want before they try to nail you down on a price. Just makes sense that way.
Now, I have had a couple of instances where the first couple of dealers just weren't meeting my price, and I grew tired of driving around, so then I went home and started emailing/calling dealers. Give them the exact model, color, options, and the price you want to pay. Give them your name and phone number. If someone is willing to accept your offer, they will contact you.
And, for the love of god, if you give them your price and they agree to it, BUY THE CAR! At that point, taking that price elsewhere to try to beat it is just sleazy, IMHO.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S