Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Unless the headlights are sagging, you don't need a bra.
Hello. I didn't think I was preaching, just saying what I thought you should do...since you asked. But, if we are talking ethics here, I may have just discovered a loophole for you to escape this "episode" with a fairly unblemished soul. If they made the inital offer to compensate you $750 in merchandise for your time and their mistake...you are now free to negotiate any way you see fit. It is up to you to decide what is fair compensation.i.e Tell the finance manager he can keep his $700 bra and $50 oil change...and you will deduct that amount from the 3 grand they say you owe. Or, however you want to work it. Good luck.
FWIW-the only bra that I ever heard of that cost $700 came off of Dolly Parton.
Our sales "menu" shows the totals, taxes, discounts, and gives finance and lease options.
great product + no hidden numbers= happy customers
Put on your iron underwear and don't lose your temper!
As I stated, there is a big difference between somebody trying to renogotiate and an error being made. I would not renogotiate a deal after it's consmated.
Of course, I'm sure if you were selling a car privately, and you and a buyer agreed on a price of $15000 that you would renogotiate if he called you 3 days later and said he meant to only give you $12000. You'd cut him a check for $3000, right?
Of course, this is a rhetorical question. Everyone reading this board knows that you wouldn't do that. But, somehow it seems that you feel a car dealer should.
That's interesting...
The only glitch is that the dealership might have a policy against them receiving gifts. If anything, slip it in an envelope and give it to him.
I was looking at one, but nobody could find me an LX 4-door manual in the color I wanted.
My credit is marginal (screwed it up in my early 20's and still rebuilding it in my early 30's). Credit score in the low 600's.
I'm in the process of buying a Mazda3 now. I say process because I've negotiated a deal, signed off via fax and put a deposit on my car. It's in Knoxville, TN and I'm in Atlanta and going to pick it up tomorrow night.
Anyway, the first Mazda dealer I went to said the best interest rate they could get was 19.9%! The payment was going to be $423 per month for 72 months! I walked out. I finally found the color/options I wanted at this Knoxville, TN dealer and they offered a great price on it (well below Edmunds TMV). They also got me an 11.99% interest rate which is great in my situation.
Here's the problem- when they quoted the rate they also quoted a payment of $332 per month. Sounded good to me, but I ran the numbers thru a payment calculator online and it showed my payment should be $303. I emailed the salesman and he called a few hours later telling me that the payment included a 6yr/100k mile extended warranty. He claimed it's easier to get a good rate for someone with my credit score with a warranty.
I protested and told him I wouldn't take it. He said the next best lender was 15.07% without the warranty. When I threatened to get a loan with my dad cosigning elsewhere, suddenly the finance manager "called in a favor" and got the warranty requirement dropped.
I'm very happy with my deal and my $303 payment and I just write off this "forced warranty" tactic as something many salesmen probably try. I just wonder when/if I'd have been told about it or realized it had I not crunched the numbers for myself.
Car salesmen/dealers, are there any situations where a finance company or bank REQUIRES an extended warranty to write a loan or give a lower rate??? My gut feeling is no, although the logic they were using surely has convinced many buyers with less than perfect credit.
The short answer is that no bank will require and extended warranty. It is also illegal for a dealer to tell you that you have to have one in order to get financing.
Here's where it gets tricky though. The inclusion of a warranty can have an impact on your rate, especially if you have bad credit.
Sub-prime lenders base their rates on a number of criteria. One of which is loan to value (ltv). The lower the ltv, the better the rate. When a lender looks at ltv, the number will exclude soft-adds (extended warranties, credit insurance, gap). There are many instances when a dealer will figure a lower price to get a lower rate for the customer (sometimes even losing money). Then, to pick back up the profit that was lost, they will tack on the warranty (since the bank doesn't include the warranty in the ltv calculation).
Based on what you've written, I don't think this is what happened in your scenario. I think the dealer was just trying to get you to say yes to the payment and then try to get you to keep the warranty when you went to pick up the car.
Of course, the vast majority of people choose the convenience of trading in a car to dealing with selling it. Another idea that is a good compromise is trying to sell it to a superstore like Carmax. If you have one near you, I'd at least get an estimate.
I can see how a lender dealing with higher risk loans could see it as an insurance policy. Who knows where the breaking point is for some people to let a car get repossessed? It could be a costly breakdown after the regular warranty expires. I guess it would also ensure that the car is in good mechanical condition if it ever is repossessed with higher than normal mileage.
I worked in credit for several years and we financed the credit card for a major electronics retailer. We'd always allow extended service plans to be authorized over the customer's limit because they were pure profit. Obviously, the loan business is similar.
Perhaps the reason they were willing to drop it for me was because they weren't losing money on the sale alone. They weren't making too much either, but it was a fair deal for both sides. Perhaps the fact that I am only financing $15,000 on a car with a sticker of $18,400 helped me get the good rate (for my credit). I wasn't aware of LTV having an effect on interest rate. That's very good to know.
Thanks.
The Civic Si is pre-sold out until spring, and we are now taking orders for the lower models for March delivery, as our February allocation of most of the Civics has sold out.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
The other fact is that finance companies want their customers to have warranties on their cars. The number one reason that people become delinquent on car loans is because the car breaks and the individual doesn't have the money to fix it and make their payment.
as far as dealer willing to refunds. the FACT is, i never heard of it. the ONLY thing i heard from friends/relatives were fin. manager always bumped up the number and playing tricks.
yes, there are good dealers out there. i personally know them and buying/will buy cars from them. and i respect them. if you are one of them, i respect you as well.
No, you should not.
First, decide what kind of new car you want.
Then determine:
A = what you think the new car is worth.
B = what you think your trade is worth.
Compute C = A - B
Go to the dealer and say, "I will give you my old clunker plus $C for that new Kia over yonder".
If they say Yes, buy the Kia.
If they say No, come back here for more advice.
yes, as i said before, i do know good dealer/salepeason, and respect them. you seem to be one of them.
now be frank, are u working for lux. car dealership? :P
You agreed on a price, right? But you haven't paid that price. Do you feel comfortable with that? Some folks would call that stealing. Lemme put it this way, if you are at the convenience store and run up a $9.98 tab ... you hand the clerk a $10 bill. He gives you $10.02 back (obviously thinking you gave him a $20). Are you the type that pockets the money and gets out of there quick? Or are you the type that recognizes an honest mistake and gives it back?
Seriously, the guy admitted his mistake and didn't even try to be a jerk about it. He said you could take it and run. So why be a jerk in return for his sincerity?
original message:
I've come clean w/ the dealer. They know I know, etc. about the mistake. I had a pretty and EXTREMELY open conversation with the guy who made the mistake and he said honestly if I wanted to tell him to screw himself I could get away with it, that it's more of an "ethics" thing (which I already understand this).
He still, obviously, wants the 3K. and if I pay he's willing to give me a free oil change and a clear bra. (worth about $750 supposedly).
Give it to me... what would you do. Now that it's out in the open
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think someone already said this above, but it's primarily because down the road the buyer won't have the unexpected expenses that can put them out... and not make their car payments. Ever wonder why finance companies either don't finance older cars at all or only for short terms?
First, I sold new Toyotas for 1 1/2 years.
Second, I sold new and used cars at a Ford, Lincoln, Mercury store. I sold there for 2 1/2 years and then went into management. I was a manager at that store for almost 8 years.
Now, I just recently took an F&I job at a Dodge and Honda store.
Never have worked in the luxury end, there just aren't a lot of luxury stores in my area (rural Ohio/Indiana state line).
I suppose, like others have said, it depends on what kind of person you are. I would ask myself a question at this juncture. That is, "if I tell my friends and neighbors about the $3K mistake, would I be proud of myself, or feel a twinge of concience?"
Clearly, since you're still debating this here, you've got a hint of concience lurking.
I've never done business with any dealer, that once an error of that magnitude is discovered, in their favor, they wouldn't return the amount in question. Many years ago, I had bought a car in which there was a $900 error in the dealership's favor. While I'll admit, the salesperson was of little help in getting it returned, the GM, once contacted, immediately sent me a check for the error.
Take this out of the salesperson's/salesmanager's hands. Contact the GM, or better yet, the owner, and tell him/her of the error. Ask the dealer principal what they want to do. An error is an error. In this instance it's sizeable and you want to come to a pallatable resolution for both parties. The oil change and the bra aren't agreeable to you. That way, you can sleep soundly and not continue to agonize any more over this.
I'm forthright when I'm working with the dealership. I expect the same in return. So far, save a couple of instances when I was young and green, I haven't been disappointed.
i am a simple guy, my ph. about buying cars, or any business engagment is: u don't waste my time, i don't waste yours.
i always a cash-buyer, always do my research before test drive, always check price on edmunds, always check dealer invetory before heading down to the dealer.
i know enough about how to self-definse, and if the dealer is starting playing games, i leave quickly.
to give everybody a summery of my latest car buying exp.
i found the car in the dealer inventory, the color i like, the option i like. figured out a rough number i want to pay. head down to the dealer, test-drive it. the manager came to me(not the sales man go to the manager room. lol:) with a good price, then a deal. i gave my sales guy $100 tip at the end of the tranaction.
Well, come Monday this person got a call from the F&I manager telling them that the bank that he booked the loan with called, and said they actually could offer a lower interest rate than the original 5.9%. This person was told to stop back by the dealership to sign new paperwork reflecting the lower interest rate, and lower monthly payment (and yes, it was still for the same 48 months that was originally agreed upon).
My point is that there are honest dealers out there.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Just wondering what your take is- with 2 weeks left until the end of the year, is this really a good time to press for a low purchase price, or is that a myth? Or will the manufacturers offer new short term incentives?
I disagree with that.
You have basically 2 categories of people who pay decent profit.
1 Those who understand that car dealers need to make money too. These are people who will pay extra for good service and look to establish a long term relationship.
2 Those who are buying a hot car. These early adopters must have the latest and don't mind paying extra for the status. these people are usually entrepeneurs and businesspeople and are profit driven themselves.
is the week between Xmas and new year is the best time to get a low price?
It occurs at least once a week. But we see 50-150 transactions per week and often here you hear about an occasional one, whether good or bad.
The vast majority of big franchises cannot have bad word of mouth circulating in the community. The asset of the franchise is way too valuable to have dissatisfied customers circulating throughout their family, friends and coworkers gratuitously creating a bad impression of the store.
As I mentioned in an earlier post we attempt to discourage unhappy buyers from doing business with us. Why do business where you are dissatisfied. There are 6 other stores in our locale.
The flip side to this is, as isell... mentioned, there are certain customers who can never be satisfied. We have no hesitancy at all directing them to our competition, this also serves a purpose. Harsh but true.
This one in my backyard is a bit unreal:
Car dealer sued over 'unconscionable' deal with elderly man (OregonLive.com)
While you're negotiating year end deals, remember that some manufacturers end their year sometime in January for reporting and bonus purposes. I got my minivan on New Year's Eve and still left plenty of money on the table.
Steve, Host
again, i know there are lots of good, honest dealer out there, some of them are my personal friends, and i respect their profession too. but it's sad to see there are even more bad guys. guys who want to cheat on every step of the process, from int. rate to money factor, warrenty, and so on.
BTW, a friend was in the market looking for a used porsche, we had so much fun shopping around
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
So if I understand your statement correctly there are a few honorable salespeople in the busines but '..there are even more bad guys.'
If I may suggest that the other big store, about 6 mi away, has the same variety and selection as we do. Possibly they might make you more satisfied.
Car dealer sued over 'unconscionable' deal with elderly man (OregonLive.com)
There's a big discussion about this story over on the "Dealers tricks...." forum.
in April this year, i was in the market for a van. dealt with 5/6 toyota dealers. 2 of them are good, the rest are bad. i listed the names yesterday.
yes i will flee to other place before the saleman talked to the manager behind high counter for 3 times.
i want to be treated right, meaning nobody waste my time. but unfortunately, i had to go to a few places to find the service i deserve.
BTW, i am in the market for a G35X, which is why i ended up here, i was checking out the "G35-buying exp. forum", and followed the guy's story here.
i visited one dealer, talked to two guys over the phone, they all seem to be good. we will see what happen when i pull the triggle in year-end week.
Steve, Host
Sure, the dealer can look the car over in a sort of generic way but some problems are only noticable under certain circumstances; so what can be DONE to the person trading in a defective car?!
This question is directed mostly to California law.
The dealer is telling me that I am wrong about the invoice price and that "if you are getting your information from the internet, that it is often wrong by $3K"
??? How do you negotiate if you can't even agree on what the invoice is??? This is a very different process than when I helped my mother in law buy a Subaru. We agreed on what the ivoice was and then agreed on what the additional amount should be.
You can't do it. Negotiating would be a waste of time.
Determine a price you are willing to pay. The 'Prices Paid' forum might help. Then offer that price and see if they will accept.
Could it be any simpler?
Customer's technique would be "show me your invoice for the car then if the prices are off as much as $3000." Or make the assumption that the internet prices are $3000 too high and offer based on $3000 under internet invoice pricing.
I'd find another dealer and talk your price at both.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
$828 Advertising fee ("this is charged on ALL cars")
$10 Fuel charge
not to mention the $199 dealer handling fee.
Those are all junk, right? Should I just name a price?
remember when buying a car, (too keep it simple, let's not to talk about leasing). you pay 2 parties:
1. Dealer
2. Govement (Tax, title & Reg. fee)
item 2, i don't think you can neg.
so just focus on item 1. do your research, and setup a hard number. no matter what it is. doc. fee. ad. charge, whatever, that hard number is what u want to pay the dealer in total.
this way, your neg. process will be a lot easier. don't even waste time to discuss invoice price, hold back, etc.
happy shopping