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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    No, this isn't the case.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Ok
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Hello there. I'm Back!

    My Pay Plan is a lot lower percentagewise than most.. but then again, I sell Lamborghinis.. so it's a tradeoff.

    Whassup Isell!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Wow! It's been awhile! Stick around, O.K.

    And come visit your friends...
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    "I'm Back!"

    Where you back from brentwood?

    Any good Lamborghinis stories to share? Mines in the shop.

    Whats a "mini" on a Lamborghini go for anyhow...what...about 5k?
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • sbell4sbell4 Member Posts: 446
    i learned a long time ago to not discuss pay plans....nothing good can come from it.

    That being said: 25% of front, a touch of the back, avg between $13k-$15k yearly additional from pull checks from manufacturer, $5000 yearly deposited in a retirement account that is seperate from 401(k)and profit sharing, 125 minis, $30 per car sold paid in lump sum in December, i think it is around $1700 xmas bonus uniform across the board whether it is your first day here or been her 20 yrs and whatever monthly bonus program that may be going on.....no demo.

    the key to any payplan is to take your income at the end of the year and divide it by the number of cars you sold and look at that number...if it was worth it, show up tomorrow, if it wasnt worth it, find another job.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Bill, where the heck have you been?? Welcome back, it's been way too long, and you're needed in the Jag discussions!! ;)

    Seriously - I'm/we're very glad you're back - I think many of us have been quite worried about you.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Now, If I were to leave, there would be a celebration! :P
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    You would be missed.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    No way, Craig. It's nice to have the balance of a salesperson's perspective, and I think it's helped many a shopper understand the process from both sides. Personally, I appreciate the many times you've told consumers that it is NOT in their best interest to trade in a vehicle when they're completely upside-down, or not to expect $1000 off of invoice on an in-demand vehicle - valuable advice, indeed.

    Bill, we're ever so thrilled to have you back! I really missed you. I love our salespeople ;)

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • landdriverlanddriver Member Posts: 607
    Hey kdhspyder -- thanks for the feedback; next time I'll insist on a contract (and maybe even bring you along with me). Was trusting the internet salesmanager -- verbal agreement was I could get my deposit back at any time since there was no contract. If I run into any problems will solicit advice from you guys...
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    Just curious, which Ford did you order?
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Where they hiding you these days?

    Do drop in on old friends. We worry when you're gone. Lord knows what sort of hobby car you are likely to take up at any given moment. Still got the Vauxhall?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ... **This means that in order for the deal not to be a mini the margin has to be at least $1000 ....**

    Did I read that right...? ... it takes $1,000 over to break a mini ..?

    Terry.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Depending on the pay plan yeah.

    We have to be way over 1000 to break out of our 75 mini because our packs are so high.

    Our packs are 2 or 3 percent of the invoice, depending on the vehicle, and our invoices are between just under 40k to just over 80k again depending on the car. So a car I sold that had about 2000 in gross was a Mini for me cause the pack ate up all of the gross on my end.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .... This wasn't directed at a Rover store ... I understand all that part, I've been doing this for almost 22 years ... you have a big nut cuz' of the tall inventory cost of your floorplan, but even $2 large is too much ........ but $1,000 on a Camry...? ..l.o.l...



    Terry :shades:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    correcto..

    $1000 gross..less $600 pac leaves $400 commissionalbe gross @25% =$100.

    Any deal under $1000 gross is a $100 mini and any deal over $1000 generates more than $100 commission so it's paid as a commission sale.

    It's the same formula on every vehicle from Corolla's to Landcrushers. Thus every Toyota under $20K is a mini as is every sale vehicle and every bone and every family deal and every deal where the buyer is knowledgeable and a good negotiator.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I'm back from the depths of hell :)

    Being a sales manager for Lamborghini is a LOT more fun than the regular car business.
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    Is it really that strange to order a car, rather than buy off the lot? I have only bought one car (my first new one in around 1982) off the lot, every other has been ordered. And this includes buying an Olds Cutlass with the heavy duty suspension, base wheels/tires, bigger engine, and no radio, but the prewiring! I remember my dealer pointing out that I was buying an Olds and equipping it like a Chevy/Pontiac... All I wanted was the basic "go fast" stuff. Within a month of delivery I had installed real audio, upgraded the wheels/tires to wider, hi-po stuff, etc etc.

    Even my present main ride was ordered (6 speed, divided, folding rear seat, blk/blk) and it did not appear to be a big deal to anyone.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    brentwood....yes, indeedy....welcome back.

    Lambos? Wow....nice gig.

    I can't imagine you guys get into too many conversations regarding pitting one Lambo dealer against another trying to grind that last $50 over invoice to close a deal.

    What exactly do your customers ask for to make a deal?
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    I have heard several people tell me recently that they have sold their cars to Carmax (instead of trading or selling themselves), and have gotten what appears to be close to KBB Private Party pricing for them (and they have shown me the paperwork to verify their claims).

    My question is if anyone here works for/has worked for Carmax, or knows what guide they use to go by when they appraise a car that they buy from a customer? I am not looking to sell anything personally, I was just curious for future reference.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    It depends what kind of car you are buying.... If it's a Honda, forget about it -- you can't order. If it's a Masarati, then pretty much everybody orders.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yeah, I'll bet...no test drives!

    Oh happy day!
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Welcome home stranger!

    TC tried to say hello a couple times in his own inimitable way, but he got nuked. Not like the good old days when laughter was SOP around here.

    Lambos, eh? Sounds like fun in spades. Now I know where to go for a Gallardo and Civic...

    Go check in with all your old mates, OK? Welcome back again.
  • landdriverlanddriver Member Posts: 607
    Just curious, which Ford did you order?

    Hey allfiredup, I ordered a Ranger (reg cab longbeds are rare to begin with; add a manual transmission and a specific color and you have a vehicle made to order). It's to replace an aging pickup I bought back in '83. Why, are you looking to get a Ranger too?

    Did you get a chance to check-out Confessions? I mention it not because it's "down" on the sales industry -- it's not, as the author actually gained a new appreciation for car salesmen from his experience -- I mention it because it better prepares someone for what they're in for if they decide to take the plunge.

    Notice from your profile you're at least peripherally involved with real estate. Talk about taking plunges, I'm a former software engineer looking to get into flipping properties. (Noticed at least a couple of car sales people I spoke with recently are interested in real estate (one moonlighted as a realtor).) Did my first property earlier this year -- lost 6K, but gained a lot of experience -- looking forward to my next property, but if I loose money again I'll swallow my pride and perhaps get back into software...
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I got a great call tonight... I think you guys will laugh yourselves silly.

    Background: The Gallardo spyder is about to hit the US market. I'm virtually sold out of my 2006 allocation, these cars are hotter than roman candles in hell. We're at MSRP, period. Some dealers are hinting that they will be $20-30k over.

    Here's the jist of the call...

    "This is Bill, can I help you?"

    "Are you the manager?"

    "Yes sir, I am the sales manager"

    "OK, I am looking for a Gallardo Spyder, do you have any yet and I need a firm price"

    "Well, we don't get our demo until February, and our customer cars start to arrive in March. Lamborghini hasn't released US pricing yet."

    "Well, I want one in March and was wondering if you'd be a little flexible. I'm calling from X (2,000 miles away) and I'm paying cash" (As opposed to paying in Frozen Shrimp?)

    "I'd love to sell you one, but we've only got a couple of '06 spots left.. i don't think that I can get you one before the end of the summer, and that's if I get lucky."

    "Well, what are you selling them for?"

    "We're taking orders and selling them at list, not a penny over."

    "Well, There's no way I'm paying sticker. I figure I can get one for $15,000 off, easy. You guys gotta have a $20k margin in the car" (For those of you who are interested, we have about a 10% margin in our cars)

    "Well, I don't think anybody is discounting them seeing as they are virtually sold out before they have even arrived, and even before we have firm pricing on them. Quite a few people are already offering early spots on the list for as much as $50,000 over MSRP. It's a very tough car to get and our policy is that we're not going over list, but that we are holding at list".

    "Well, here's my number. I'll take one in March at $15k off, if you want to move one, then you know how to find me".

    "I appreciate the interest but I'm going to have to pass. I appreciate the offer but I figure it's about $40,000 under what the car will wholesale for."

    There's 26 Lamborghini dealers in America. I figure I was #20 on his list of people to call. :P
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I went on one today. Guy was looking at an aftermarket-priced F430 or maybe a 360 Modena. He didn't want a Gallardo as he thought it was less practical! (It's the opposite!)

    I wrote him as well :)

    Although, being brought in by one of our existing customers helped.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'm gonna wait until the Lamborghini SUV hits the showroom myself.

    Steve, Host
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    I've known several people who've also sold to Carmax. While you'll get more money sticking it out and selling it privately, it is a quick and easy way to unload a car. It also allows you to sell it for more than most dealers would give you, then you don't have one less piece of a new car transaction to deal with.

    Most recently, my boss sold her '98 Lexus ES300 to them. The Lexus dealer where she bought it new and where she was buying her new RX330 only offered her $9000 for it. Carmax paid $10,700 for it. My parents also sold a Grand Cherokee to them a few years back for about $2k than a dealer would pay for it.
  • allfiredupallfiredup Member Posts: 736
    Congrats on the new truck. I actually owned a '90 Ranger with almost 200k miles on it for a few years. I bought it from a friend back in 2000 to take it off his hands (he needed the cash). That thing was bulletproof!

    And yes, I did read the "Confessions" about a year ago or so and went back and read it again when you mentioned it. It is interesting and seems like the guy who wrote it did earn some respect for some salespersons. Proof that there are a few good eggs out there.

    A friend of mine is in the process of buying his first investment property and I've offered to help him with some of the work just for the experience. If his first flip isn't a disaster, I'm seriously thinking about trying it myself. Do you ever watch "Property Ladder" on TLC or "Flip This House" on A&E? There's also one called "Flip That House" on Discovery that I haven't checked out yet. They help fuel the fire, though.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Unbelievable. Either the guy was pulling a prank or he was just stupid. I guess the laws of supply and demand don't apply to him.

    It's a good thing he tried to help you "move one" cause oh boy once all those Gallardos start arriving, the dealerships will be overstocked with them. :P

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • indychick73indychick73 Member Posts: 25
    What's the best way to ensure auto financing won't "fall through" at the last minute?

    My salesperson found a lender willing to give me a loan (my credit is weak and I knew this might be a big problem) on a used low milage vehicle. I put down a large down payment and I signed all the documents. Now I'm worried that something will go wrong during the final stages of financing. Is there any way to verify that the loan is indeed approved before I take possession of the vehicle?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    That sounds like the calls we get about every other day for either SC Range Rovers, SC range Rover Sports or the First edition vesivuius Range Rover sports.

    Customer: "What do you mean I can't buy one for $1,500 over invoice you are part of ford right where are all your rebates and employee pricing?"

    Me: "Well while we might be part of ford we are primarily part of the PAG auto group and neither Jaguar, Aston Martin or most Volvo dealers are offering employee pricing. In addition we have already sold both of our First Vesuvious edition sports there is a wating list 6 deep for SC Range Rovers and we are about to go wating list for SC Range Rover Sports."

    Customer: "Humhhh well I just can't belive you aren't willing to deal I will just call some other dealer and they can have my business."

    Hangs up.

    Its so funny and in addition because of the way land rover has their business builder program, our version of hold back, we can't sell out of our local market or we will not get our business builder money.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    indychick,

    Generally on what we call a "subprime" loan, there are lots of "stips" or stipulations to the approval.

    I would ask the finance manager what the stips for your deal are, ask him what they need for funding. Generally they will need a lot as subprime loans are quite risky for the lender.

    A typical approval might say:

    Proof of Income
    Proof of Residence
    5 References
    Copy of entire phone bill
    Verification of employment
    Verification of address.

    etc.

    Not only do they need paperwork from you, they generally need to verify everything before they will fund the dealer on the deal. Generally these deals get kicked because one of two things happens:

    1) The dealer "spotted" you and hopes to "get the paper hung". This means you really are not approved upfront.

    2) The funding package is incomplete or inconsistent. Put down on the app that you make $75,000 a year and your current Year To Date on your paystub is $57,000, that's an automatic Turn Down, etc....
  • indychick73indychick73 Member Posts: 25
    Thanks for the reply. So, will the lender contact me for this info? And how long can I expect the finalization process to take? I don't want to take possession of the car only to have to turn it back in. I was completely truthful on my credit app., and my salesperson actually spent about 45 min. talking to the lender and getting me approved before telling me the deal was a go.
    Thanks.
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    One other thing.....

    It is possible that you will recieve decline letters in the mail from several lenders, also even the lender who financed you, because it is possible that that lender initially declined you and then the finance manager "re-hashed" which means negotitated with the lender to get you financed. It doesnt mean you are not financed.(I got a letter from Ford saying I was declined after I took delivery of my truck for that exact reason) What kind of car did you buy and what kind of dealer did you buy it from? Who did they say you are financed with? Did you sign a contract yet?
  • indychick73indychick73 Member Posts: 25
    I bought a used Chevy Malibu from a small-town family owned authorized dealer. I did sign a contract with GMAC for financing during the transation. Everything is probably fine, but I tend to be cautious.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    So, will the lender contact me for this info?

    If the lender requires any stips, then they'll put this in their reply to the dealer, and make the dealer collect the stips from the buyer. When the dealer sends over the paperwork to the lender, they also need to send the stips. The lender won't directly contact you for the stips -- the dealer will get all that stuff.
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    99.9% good to go! Why did you not take delivery upon signing? :)
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    Hopefully it'll work out better than the Cheetah.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That one reminds me a bit of the new Urge - must be the lack of something hanging over the rear wheels I guess.

    Steve, Host
  • landdriverlanddriver Member Posts: 607
    Actually no I wasn't aware of any of those shows on flopping properties as I don't get cable, but I may subscribe now just to check them out! Good luck to you and your friend on his first flip -- I'm sure he really appreciates your help as the first flip can be quite an emotional roller-coaster! :)
  • indychick73indychick73 Member Posts: 25
    I waited to take delivery because I had to order a duplicate title for my trade (72 hours).

    I talked to the salesperson and asked him if the loan was approved for certain. He assured me it is, that he'd already sent over the contract to the finance company and I would be receiving my first payment notice within a month. There were no "stips" mentioned, and I was not required to provide any additional information. The salesperson metioned that the lender was sort of doing him a favor, since my credit is so bad. I was even given a decent int. rate, all things considered. I know this is sometimes a ploy, but in my case, my credit REALLY is in bad shape.

    I guess I just have to take a leap of faith, unless there is any way to verify with the lender that I'm approved before I take delivery.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "The salesperson metioned that the lender was sort of doing him a favor"

    I think your salesperson was lying. Lenders make decisions that earn them money. They don't do favors.

    If you take delivery and if your loan is approved, but at a higher rate than you wanted, you may be stuck with the higher rate. On the other hand, you may be allowed to return the new car, get your old car back, and have your down payment returned to you. It may depend on the way your contract is worded.
  • indychick73indychick73 Member Posts: 25
    Is it possible to tell the saleman I want to make sure my loan is approved with the terms we agreed upon before I turn in my trade and take delivery of the new car? I haven't given them my deposit yet as it was set up that I would bring that when I bring my trade. According to GMAC it can take up to three weeks for the contract to be finalized and there is a chance they can change the terms or deny it alltogether.
  • indychick73indychick73 Member Posts: 25
    "deposit" should read "down payment"
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    I think your salesperson was lying. Lenders make decisions that earn them money. They don't do favors.

    Of course lenders are working to earn money.... But they can do favors for a particular dealership.

    If that particular dealer has been sending a TON of business to that lender (which means he's making a TON of money), then he might be a little more lenient on a borderline applicant. He does the dealer a favor so that he continues to send him all that business. ("I'll scratch your back, if you scratch mine.")

    Conversely, If the dealer never uses the lender and calls him out of the blue, it wouldn't be very likely they'd approve it.
  • sbell4sbell4 Member Posts: 446
    bobst, lenders will do dealerships favors from time to time....A dealership can send the paper to whomever they wish and every now and then a lender will have to "step up" and approve a deal to keep the contracts coming to them.
  • indychick73indychick73 Member Posts: 25
    I believe my salesman--he was on the phone for a long time trying to get approval for me. He said that he had to promise to send the lender more business for approving my loan. I wouldn't fault the dealership if the deal didn't go through, but I don't want to drive the car for a month only to have to return it, not to mention the possibility of losing my trade, too. Can I hold off on taking possession until I get my loan confirmation?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    We have a customer here that is kind of a pain. He comes in last week cause his range rover is acting up. The front end is grinding around corners like there is something wrong with the front diff or maybe the transfer case. He comes in all screaming yelling at everyone to fix his car right now blah blah.

    He is screaming at our sales manager and he won't drive anything but a new Range Rover so our sales manager gives him his Demo to use. So he takes the demo our number one a tech gets right to work on his car figures out what it needs orders the parts. Everything comes in a couple of days later and he picks up his car a couple of days after that.

    Brings my managers demo back a broken passenger side rear window. It just blew out he said must have been defective. Nevermind that when we get it into the shop you can see that there is a small dent and scratch at the top edge of the seal around the window where something fell into it. Also all of the glass is inside the car if the window had blown out most of the glass would have fallen outside the car.

    He called again just a little while ago claiming that we put a dent in his hood while we were servicing it and he wants money. If our tech had put a dent in it he would have owned up to it right away. He is a professional with 30 plus years of experience. We would have called out our Dent Dr. guy and popped the dent out and that would have been the end of it.

    Just had to vent for a minute.
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