Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

hiwaysanity

Here in our "Big Dig" construction job in Boston a motorist drove through a construction opening where a barrier was unfortunately missing, and plumeted about 75 feet straight down. The inattentive "great mind" behind him followed! They both died.

So much for great minds. But your's seem OK to follow so far . . .

/;^)

KCRam

Some recent off topic posts have been removed. Please keep conversation to automotive topics ONLY. Further violations of this type will be reported and forwarded fro review.

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and FWI Message Boards

ltang

Has anyone heard of similar case like the one I'm going through?

I purchased a new 2001 Toyota Sienna from Claremont Toyota in LA area in June 2001. Later I found out that the car had been registered with 3rd party previously on 9-8-2000. The dealership waited till that registration expired and then went to DMV to re-register the car, on 9-24-2001, and got new plates for it. That was what I received on 9-26-2001 via FedEx from the dealership. What caught my attention was the registration form indicated the car was first sold in 2000, and there was a prior registration expiration.

The dealer claimed the car was previously reported to DMV as sold by mistake and therefore it was still "new" when I purchased it. They did not disclose that information to me and presented the purchase as buying a new car. The car had 78 miles on it and the sales person claimed it was delivery miles. It had new car window sticker and the sales contract said new car.

What's my option at this point? Appreciate any help.

Thanks,
Larry

cupholder1

Sounds like it was a car that was returned after the financing fell through. That seems to be a common dealership tactic... just get someone in the car, even if their finances are shaky. When the bank rejects the loan, the dealer then says to pay 20% interest or return the car. This person must have returned the car.

As far as options, you will need to speak to an attorney. It would seem that the most that can be done is that the dealership be forced to take back the car and give you all of your money back. Is that what you want? You could also report the dealership to the State Attorney General's office or Local D.A.

im_brentwood

1) If the financing fell through, It happened real quick! And, if it did, I can darn near assure you that it would not have been titled. Hell, who would they have liened it to?

2) Maybe they did make a paperwork mistake back in 9-00?

Bill

zueslewis

If it was actually put into service, your warranty start date would also read 9/8/00 - sorry to bear bad news.

The warranty history is available through any Toyota dealer and can shed some light on the registration question.

hiwaysanity

If the car has 78 miles on it, it's a new car. The only issue is the warranty period. If they represented thew car as new, you are entitled to the entire warranty period. If the warranty start date, in Toyota's books, is the date you bought it, there's really no problem.

suzzann

My local Toyota dealer is running radio ads claiming to be helping the economy along by offering 0% financing and up to 50% off on some used cars (not 0% on used cars).

One of the cars mentioned is a 1998 Corolla. The original asking price, they claim, is $14,000! A friend went to look at the car since they were advertising it for 50% off, $7,000. She asked to see the original price and the salesman told her it was $14,000 when it was new. She accused him of being a bit sleazy and he told her to buy the car or get out of the store!

suvshopper4

ltang: Other than the warranty start-date issue others have previously addressed, the only problem I see when you go to sell or trade the van is you may not be able to call it a "one-owner" vehicle.

I see that as pretty minor, though. Sounds like you got a new van in reality, if not technically.

And if the deal was right and I liked the vehicle, I'd probably keep it. The dealer may be willing to throw in an extra now (free maint service, etc), to keep you happy.

zueslewis

if the car has been titled, it is not a new car and shouldn't have been sold as one. I've seen three-owner cars with less than 100 miles; the warranty was started 8 months before, the dealer didn't update the warranty start date BECAUSE they couldn't - warranty claims had already been paid! What a mess!

armtdm

It may be available only on MSRP not on the negotiated price. If so you are better off negotiating a pirce and getting a 6% loan at a bank, much cheaper.

Keep the economy rolling as the ads say, hmmmm, at who's expense. What ever happened to truth in adversting

[Deleted User]

Returning the car for 100% refund is one option. The other option, in my mind (scary), is to check the book value (black, blue, nada, tmv )of a used one with 78 miles on it. Subtract that amount from the amount you paid, and get the difference refunded to you.
Of course, I don't think the dealer will voluntarily go for any of this, so you should probably contact your state Attorney General or Consumer Protection Dept, Toyota Corporate, and possibly a private attorney.
Or, you can forget about the whole thing and keep the vehicle as is.

hiwaysanity

Consumers faced with that should just change dealers.

raybear

I know dealers who give good prices and 0%. Switch dealers.

mackabee

another thing that happens is an overzealous salesman thought he had the van sold and the dealership reported it sold. Customer backs out of the deal, the vehicle has to be "rolled back" re-stocked in inventory and put back on the lot until it's sold again. They re-report it as sold to the distributor under the new customer's name and address. This happens a lot. It's no big deal as you get the full factory warranty, the "previous customer" never took delivery and the 78 miles are probably from customers taking a test drive on the vehicle.

: )
Mackabee

mackabee

Something like this happened to me last December. I had a customer come in and grind down the price of a 2001 Camry LE, he left me a 200 dollar deposit and was to pick up the vehicle the next day. I had the car prepped and ready to go and next day he shows up and tells me "On the way home last night we "happened" to stop by yxz Toyota and they had the same car on the lot. They beat your price by $100.00 so we bought it from them. Sorry, you were very courteous and professional but 100 dollars is 100 dollars." so I gave him the deposit back. When he left I pulled up the vehicle he had "bought" at my competitor only to find out that it didn't have side airbags, a $250.00 option. He just happened to outsmart himself and got a car with less options for $100.00 less. 6 months later I see him at the store with another salesman. He comes up to me and says he's looking at a Tacoma 2wd, I tell him to go right ahead and have the other salesman help him. "I'm sorry, I would have rather you help me but I didn't see you outside." he says. It's not like I hang out outside the whole day, I do have an office. "Hey, no problem. Chris will take care of you." So off he goes and works Chris down to the last penny on the deal and leaves. I tell Chris about my last experience with the guy and we figure we will see him again when he is in the market for another vehicle.

: )

Mackabee

armtdm

He obviously either did not care about the airbags as an option and/ or did not do his homework and know that he was comparing apples or oranges. Also, every salesman should leave a customer that is shopping around with the if you go elsewhere please come back let me be the last stop before you buy statement.

So this customer did get less of a car so to speak but then again, if the airbags were meaningless to him he did save $100 even though he did not get as good a deal.

That's the problem with all cars on lots, one cannot compare apples to apples, only how much over invoice.

zueslewis

why can't you compare apples to apples on any particular model? Look at the sticker, write everything down or take a digital picture - then when you look at another car, pull out your notes or your camera and you're done.

I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, but all new cars have stickers and they all read the same. The guy with the Camry was in too much of a hurry to save the $100 and waste Mack's time - he failed to compare the cars - it's a no-brainer, that one.

isellhondas

Listen to armtdm! You must have done something wrong to lose that sale!

After all...your customer "saved" a whopping 100.00!!

afk_x

Who cares about safety?

[Deleted User]

Who needs flabby side airbags, anyway? They're for girlie-men.

im_brentwood

If they Yank out the front Airbags, could I save $200???

[Deleted User]

Lose the seatbelts, and you'll save even more. The bumpers add a lot of weight, too.

cupholder1

when he needs to pay his medical insurance deductible for brain surgery... after he smashes his head from not having side airbags.

[Deleted User]

Regardless if he knew whether he was getting side airbags or not, he should have given Mack the opportunity to sell him the vehicle. It's the "considerate" thing to do. I'll bet he would have saved the $100 AND gotten airbags. It's jerks like that who give buyers a bad rep.

sonjaab

If you get t boned in a camry NO side
airbag will save you ! Especially if
you get nailed by a pickup truck......
Some poor lady got t boned near me
yesterday and sadly didn't survive
with side air bags in her camry......

isellhondas

Of course, if the impact is hard enough nothing will save you. Still a person is probably better off with the side bags than without.

Don't blame it on the car. She probably would have met the same fate in anything else.

mackabee

The thing is EVEN after I told him about the side airbags, and that he really wasn't saving money on the car he still went ahead and bought the other Camry. Anyway, the point of my story which I failed to relate was that I ended up selling the car a month later and we had to roll back the deal and re-report it sold to the new customer, who by the way, was a repeat buyer and was delighted to have the side bags on the new car!

: )

Mackbee

mtndewrob

I just bought a Mazda B3000 pick up new. I knew my credit was crappy (bankruptcy) and knew I would be paying a higher interest rate. So I got financing on the Internet. When I went to look and negotiate, I told them I already had financing. They ran a credit check, said they could get me financing at the same interest rate I got from the Internet. The only problem I had, “the finance company requires you to purchase an extended warranty because of your credit rating”. The warranty cost was $1350, this was,” a great deal because it usually cost $1700”! I have bought extended warranties before and was planning to buy another one but this price was too high even at the “cut rate” price they were selling me.

When the finance company called me a few days after my purchase to get more information, I asked about the requirement to purchase an extended warranty to get financing through them. They told me their company doesn’t require an extended warranty and doesn’t condone a dealership telling the customer there is a requirement!

I went straight to the dealer told them what the finance company told me, demanded this warranty be removed, and informed the sales manager and salesman I did not appreciated being lied to! The loan had already been funded, so they will send the finance company a check to be applied to the principle of the loan.

The problem I have with this is I will be paying interest on $1350, for five years; also, I paid sales tax on the $1350. I want to know who I report unethical practices such as this, and if I should demand a meeting with the owner of the dealership himself. Or am I just wasting my time with the owner, who may or may not know these kinds of practices are taking place?

landru2

Were you swearing a lot when you wrote that post or is it a bug in the message board software?

%$#@ :^)

artwis

If the dealer sends the $1350 to the finance co. and it's taken off the principal you won't be paying interest on it. As far as the sales tax I would try to get the dealer to refund it but that may be a lost cause. At least with $1350 coming off the principal up front you will have the loan paid off quicker.
Art

rayfbaird

It's easy to do. Write your response in a third party word processor. Cut and paste in to edmunds. Any apostrphy like in can't or don't shows up with thos symbols. By the way, the only application I now of that does it.

Edmunds are you listening.

alexkidd

Here's my situation:

I found the suv I wanted but it was missing leather seats. The salesmen claims to be able to put them in for a certain price, a little over standard retail.

I tell him that I don't want to pay more then 4 % over invoice. He comes back and agrees to 4 % over invoice then adding the leather at the price agreed upon.

He does the calculations and I agree to his price, putting a deposit down with a credit card. When I do the math at home later, I realize he somehow miscalculated (added a few hundred), on purpose or not. I saw the invoice price and I guess I didn't verify his numbers at the time, trusting that he would not try to pull this type of stunt.

Since I agreed to the price, but under the assumption that it was in line with our deal, do I have any recourse to go back to him under the threat that I will refuse the credit card charges unless this situation is fixed?

I'm not trying to get something for free - I just feel that he took advantage of me, even though I was offering a reasonable and fair price.

im_brentwood

I'd call and ask first.

Its' possible that the car you're looking at has a regional adveretising charge levied on it (Isit a Toyota?)

Bill

armtdm

Sounds like the buyer did come back to original dealer and look into the price and that the $100 was more important then the airbags and that the dealer would not come down $100 so he purchased the car elsewhere. This sounds like basically honest negotiation to me, both parties had the opportunity to haggle and the $100 was more important then the bags and the origianl delaer could not offer what the buyer wanted in price or a car without the side airbags.

[Deleted User]

Your sales tax (on the $1350) should be refunded, either to you or to the principal of your loan. That's all there is to it.
Also, make damn sure that original refund check makes it to your finance company, and that they apply it wholly to the principal.

bretfraz

I had the exact same thing happen to me 8 years ago. I was in a very similar situation as you are in. Dealer told me to get the lower interest rate I'd have to buy the warranty for $1100. So I did.

I then went back to the dealer after all the paperwork was done and spoke to the GM. I explained everything.

GM ultimately cut me a check for $1100. Not to my finance co... ME.

I calculated the interest on the $1100 would have cost me $24. Tax was even less. I considered myself lucky to have got the end result I wanted and chalked it up.

I sold the car 18 months later. Total interest and tax paid on the amortized $1100 - $7.44.

bolivar

Noone writes in Fortran any more.

 

Oh, wait, you work for the government don't you.

alexkidd

But can I refuse to take the car if I already put down a deposit? Is this going to be something that will be a huge struggle or not?

The other thing that I noticed is that he didn't put the MSRP sticker on the desk during the discussion. He then put a supposedly full MSRP price, nothing else, in front of me that included the leather. I jotted down the number and later I realized that this price was over by $1000 from the MSRP + leather. So when he later showed me what I thought was the agreed upon discount price, it looked like I was saving more then I was. In my head, I was doing the calculations by subtraction instead of addition from the invoice.

It is partly my fault for not keping better track, but I guess I never dealt with anyone that pulled something like this - usually you have to worry about the minor charges being added later on or the financing or options, etc.

[Deleted User]

Check the invoice price, add 4%, then add the seat price. Take the total to the salesman, and point out his "honest" mistake.
If he hems and haws and starts shoveling the BS, tell him you do not want the vehicle at the erroneous price, and will only take it at the price based upon the formula you had agreed upon, not his creative math.
You should be polite but firm. If he doesn't play ball, walk out, and call the credit card company and cancel the charge. Better yet, use your cell phone to cancel the charge in front of him!
That's just my opinion.

[Deleted User]

You didn't actually take delivery of the vehicle did you? I was under the impression from your post that you were only in the order stage.

cupholder1

A deal isn't done until the F&I guy suckers you into a bunch of useless crap and then shoves the new heap of junk off the lot as your salesman laughs and high fives the other salesmen for having tricked you.

I'd suggest that you just cancel the credit card charge and find a new dealership. If you're not good at haggling, just use Autoweb or something similar.

suzzann

Here in Connecticut a deposit IS a deal, so long as a purchase order is signed by both parties. My salesman explained that to me before I gave him the deposit on my Forester (which I arranged for online).

tincup47

Until you take possesion of the vehicle and sign the final papers, you can stop the sales process and get your deposit back. I would not take a salesman's word on the purchase order being a binding agreement.

suzzann

I was more concerned with the dealer backing out than my doing so.

tincup47

Sorry about the misunderstanding

frankrichards

cupholder1-- wow, that's hard ball. What if the dealer said "yea, my guy made a mistake, I see it here, I'll take care of it"? Do knowing these steps help you out at all?

Dealer's View:

1-Meet and greet 2-Warm up 3-Qualify 4-Land in stock 5-Feature presentation 6-Demo ride 7-Re-cap deal 8-Appraise trade 9-Close the sale 10-Ask for help.

Buyer's View:

1. Meet and greet - "Hi, I'm Fred. Nice selection of cars."
2. Warm up - "Nice day isn't it?" "How about those Yankees?"
3. Qualify - "I shopping best price, financing terms and conditions."
4. Land in stock - put your hand on the car you want.
5. Feature presentation - "show me those bells and whistles baby!"
6. Demo ride - "where's your helmet? Buckle up that safety belt!"
7. Re-cap deal - the excitement swells, "here's the way I see a deal."
8. Appraise trade - "it's gotta be worth more than $1500!"
9. Close the sale - "take off another $500 and I'll take it. Go try!"
10. Ask for help - "call the fire department, need water!"

hiwaysanity

Your editer's stuck!

frankrichards

writer's block or is it that hard to work with? I know the feeling :-)

isellhondas

Does the old term "broken record" come to mind?