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Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.
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Comments
Ed
Same category as Buick owner loyalty cash - Ford Taurus owners aren't eligible, but if you own a Buick and want a new one, there's $750 in it to talk you out of a Honda!
Ed
To clarify my earlier comment, if an auto manufacturer was basing a rebate on race or gender, there would be lawsuits flying all over. As someone who is way past the typical college graduation age, I sort of feel a bit slighted because I'm ineligible for this kind of rebate.
Yes, I realize that the manufacturers are trying to establish a buying pattern in the younger customer, but as I've said, the PC police have bombarded me with their "correctnes" for so long that it's skewed my thinking sometimes.
Car_man
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Ads are expensive ,so they have to pull people into the store.Even when a person is not looking for the base model -that price will determine which stores they shop.A low price on a base model creates "DISCOUNTS ACROSS THE BOARD "images in the buyers mind.
People won't respond to ads like "Car X sold at a fair profit" but "below cost",$1 over invoice,clearance ,etc draws them in.As long as that particular "leader" is available I see nothing wrong with this.
How's that for a run-on sentence??
Been out to buy some furniture lately ...?
The Car Biz is a cake walk compared to those Ad's .. l..o..l..
Terry.
All in all buying a car is pretty above board-excluding the finance guy.
[[So my sweet little old lady next door decided to go car shopping on her own and here's what happened.
I told her what Raybear had said about the $750 dealer cash so she thought she'd be able to handle it on her own and save the $50 Priceline fee.
She went down to our closest dealer and told them she knew everything, the dealer cash, holdback, etc., and wanted to get the best deal they could give her. The Salesman quoted a price several hundred dollars over invoice. She told them that was no good, they'd have to be several hundred UNDER invoice to make a sale. He countered with the low-rate financing, how her money would be better off earning interest at a higher rate than she was paying, etc. That made sense to her, so she gave him a deposit and signed the purchase order.
Now came the tricky part. When she got to the Finance Manager's office he had bad news. She didn't qualify for the low rate. Instead he offered her a much higher rate than she expected. He used bullying tactics, such as insinuating that perhaps not all her bills had been paid on time, making it her fault she didn't qualify. My neighbor took this for what it was, an insult, and told him she'd be paying cash instead. She also refused the extended warranty and every other option the Manager tossed at her. They accepted her personal check and delivered the car to her.
She made it home by the time she realized she'd been had. If her credit was so bad, why did they take a personal check? Even worse, what happened to the $750?
So she showed up in my kitchen asking what to do. I had to tell her the Salesman and Finance Manager had simply done a good job, she has no recourse that I'm aware of. There is no mention of financing on the purchase order or any of the sales records.
Had she used Priceline or just shopped at another dealership I'm sure things would have worked out differently. The tactics used by the dealer were simple, they got her to believe she had bought a car and when the terms changed she still felt that she had bought it and went along for the ride.
Her revenge will only be to never use the dealer for service or buy a car from them again. She has already warned several friends to stay away from them. There's not much else she can do.]]
So, any opinions?
The salesman and the F&I manager shouldn't have, but they made an example out of her about what not to do.
I would have handled it much differently, but if I couldn't have turned her away from the "dark side" I would have walked her to the door and told her to have a nice day.
Ed
It looks to me like everyone lost here.The customer feels "ripped off",the dealership lost finance money,a chance to sell an extended warranty and goodwill.I would be very surprised if they do not try and make it "right".
It sounds like the bottom line was that got into whatever she got into because she wanted to save $50. Rather than taking your advice she chose to ignore it for sake of $50. There's not much you can do with people that will forsake good advice for a couple dollars.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Perhaps your friend thought that the dealer cash and the financing were exclusive. They are not. The special rate is independant of the dealer cash. Her fault for not negotiating a better deal if she feels like she left money on the table she should have either continued negotiating or tried another dealer.
Your friend agreed to a price - because the salesperson convinced her that the rate was a great deal - perhaps he lied to your friend in the negotiation. I don't know. Doesn't sound like it but I wasn't there.
As for the rate...you said -
"She didn't qualify for the low rate. Instead he offered her a much higher rate than she expected. He used bullying tactics, such as insinuating that perhaps not all her bills had been paid on time, making it her fault she didn't qualify. My neighbor took this for what it was, an insult, and told him she'd be paying cash instead."
So the main question I have is if she actually qualified for the special rate or not. I don't know. If she did - then shame on the finance manager for pissing your friend off. If she didn't - was it his way of communicating that upset your friend? I mean if she didn't actually qualify - who's fault is it? Your friends of course.
Just because they took her personal check doesn't mean she had great credit.
Again I'm not sure why your friend is upset. Her fault for being only smart enough to know she left money on the table - not smart enough to get it.
If the person doesn't qualify, they just don't qualify --- even if it's your neighbor.
Your beacon has to be a 700+ and there is some other qualifications. But, the point is .. I wasn't in that office and either were you .. sometimes a persons pride and ego get's hurt very quickly and then they take it as an insult.
There is no reason for the F&I Mgr to negate the deal, they still make $200 on just doing a "special" rate program.
I'm not defending anyone here ... maybe, just maybe, someones feelings got hurt ...? I have seen it a thousand times, whether they make $26,000 or $526,000 a year ....
Just my stupid opinion.
Terry.
My point was that had she not tried to outsmart the dealer she would have been better off. I had encouraged her to use Priceline to lock in the price of the car on a cash sale. She decided she could do it on her own, resenting the fact that Priceline charges for their service. She's such a tightwad it's almost funny.
That's just sick!
My wife has an uncle like that. He's been a "working man" all of his life, saved every nickel he could, invested every spare dime. He doesn't live like a pauper, but does live modestly.
He's in his seventies now, health is starting to go, but by golly, he's worth a ton, and that makes him happy. Sick? No, just a little "off center"!
No wonder she has all her money, sounds like she doesn't pay her bills .. l..o..l..
Terry :-)
l...o...l....
Terry.
Harry
Typically, bait and switch refers to a situation where an item is advertised which doesn't exist - the "bait". The consumer is then "switched" to a more profitable item. This practice is illegal in the jurisdictions that I am aware of, so if this happens to you, call the proper authorities and do your part to stop this behavior - don't just whine about it in chat rooms.
Judging from the posts I've read here and from the words of many customers over the years what happens more often is that the "bait" indeed exists, but the customer is upset that they can't buy the model they really want for the same price. They feel they have been "switched" to a more expensive model. Rather than being illegal, this is the point of virtually all retail advertising - to get customers into a store where they will hopefully buy something more profitable than the advertised item. I have often heard customers say things like, "...I assumed it would be an automatic" or "I thought air was standard." When the salesman says, "No, it's optional. Would you like one with air?", they are not being "switched."
Now, a lot of people seem to get upset that the item advertised is no longer available when they go to buy it. This poses a real quandry for the dealer and the buyer. Based on what I read here, the buyer usually assumes that the item never did exist. At this point it is unlikely that they are being held and "forced" to buy something else. If this is what the buyer really thinks is happening it is time to leave and contact the proper authorities.
For the dealer, the trouble is that an advertisement may have to be produced from 1 to 4 days in advance. A customer may see the ad on Tuesday morning and be at the dealership when it opens only to find that the car was sold on Monday afternoon. Often, the units that are advertised are not the high volume sellers and a replacement may not available; Especially at this time of year - 2002's can no longer be ordered and it will be a few months before 2003's arrive.
It should be remembered that ads are not product catalogs. They are not intended to provide everything a shopper needs to know. They are to get people into a store. With rare exceptions, advertised units are very good deals if they are on the car you want. But the car you want may not be the one advertised.
Terry.
My only observation is that the term bait and switch may not be exactly appropriate for the type of advertising that you are talking about. While it may not be illegal advertising, it is somewhat misleading and leaves a bad taste in the customer's mouth. I agree that the point of the ad is to get people to the dealership. But why advertise a car that you have one of, when you are really trying to sell the one that you have 40 of that the customer really wants? I know this is frustrating to the customer and I cannot see that it helps the dealership. It perpetuates the idea of lying car dealers in the customer's eyes. I have noticed in my area that a lot of dealers are advertising vehicles with plenty of options and saying that they have 20 or 30 in stock. In fact Isellhondas works at the most successful dealership in his area and he says they never advertise prices at all.
Ed
The "bait and switch" excuse is a poor line of thought for folks who want something for nothing and scream foul because they can't have it. I think the dealer would offer a similar discount on the model you DO want, if the base model's not for you.
You can't get something for nothing and make a retail business out to be the bad guy when you can't get it.
Besides if these ads were not trying to be deceptive, why all of the fine print? If you are an honest dealer, print all the ad type the same size, or at least a readable size.
$19,999 is irrelevant - they advertise a base model truck at $20K, but the dolled up one you want costs $32,000. If the dealer applies the same percentage of discount to the gussied up model, isn't that fair? You can't get leather, 200 watt sound, all the other towing and go fast goodies for $19,999, so why do people cry about it?
The ad never said you could get something for nothing.
As for the fine print, compared to buying a $.49 ice cream cone at McDonalds, buying a $30,000 car is a relatively complex undertaking. There is no excuse for the fine print to be unreadable but even if someone found it unreadable wouldn't a phone call usually clear it up? When I visited Phoenix a few years ago I couldn't believe how much ad space was taken up by the government mandated fine print. Ad space is hugely expensive and making the fine print larger (assuming it's already large enough to read) will not help the dealer sell any more cars. It would just force the dealer to spend more money to get his message across. And guess where the dealer will recoup this added cost from?
landru: I also understand what you are saying, but I think the two ends of the spectrum are a little different. Like you said the cost difference is a factor, but also ( and I think this has been said before in TH) no one goes to the car dealer to buy a truck and says " and I 'll take one of those sedans, and throw in an suv." They go for a specific one item.
Lets get real guys. I know this is a car buying site, but how many friends and associates have you heard complain about other types of newspaper advertising? To the best of my knowledge it is mostly about car ads and furniture financing ads. I think we are getting fouled up by the defination of deceptive. So I will say misleading ads.
Why do you think there are govt mandates on car ads? Probably because sometime ago, some dealer placed a deceptive and/or misleading ad. I know I will get beat up on the boards for saying this, but without this govt regulation, business would run amok. Hormel and coal mines with kids in them come to mind.
All I am trying to say is that some dealers still use bait and switch through their ads. Not all dealers. Car dealers may not call it this, but the buying public does and they feel ripped off by it. Just advertise the cars you have and their price, no fine print.
I have heard it on here before. We still have this type of ads, because they work. They bring in people and then they buy the more expensive product. I wish the buying public would wake up and not give these kinds of dealers their business.
What makes you say that someone can't go into a dealership and buy what's advertised? As I said before if the ad item never existed then there are proper avenues to follow. If someone really wants the cheap car advertised they can buy it. A buyer can't be forced to buy something else.
No fine print? Believe me, dealers would love it if this was the case - preparing ad copy is the bane of a sales managers existence. But is the advertised price using the rebate or is it using the low finance rate? Are the payments advertised on a lease or a purchase? Are they with $0 down or with $2000 down? What is the interest rate and what is the total cost of borrowing, etc.. I assume you want to know this kind of stuff and it's going to appear in the fine print. You want the government to mandate that this information is written as large as a headline? Then be prepared to pay more as dealers pass on the cost of increased advertising. Great for newspapers, not so great for car buyers.
Of course if you would propose that dealers only be allowed to advertise certain models and not advertise others then we get into a whole other discussion regarding the freedom of a business to advertise what it wants.
zues: you are on the money. I see those kind of ads in my area and wonder what the dealer is thinking. That is definately both ends of the buying spectrum.
I am not in the car business, but let me give you an example of what I would put for a car ad:
2002 Blahmobile
Auto,leather,ps,pb,cruise
20 to choose from
Buy for $20,000
Seems simple to me. I even saved some ad copy by not having to put down a specific stock number. I know showing lease payments is more complicated and would require more disclosed info. If dealers would get in the habit of just showing what they will sell the car for, and not worry about including rebates, etc. the ad would be simple like above. Rebates and special financing are all the rage now, but they are not usually in the mix for pricing a car. Believe me, if and when car sales improve, the rebates and special financing will magically disappear.
I am not trying to argue wiht anyone here and I know that I am not going to change the way car ads are done. There is just IMHO a simpler and more effective way for dealers to spend their ad dollars.
Town car $xxxxx 7 at this price
Merc marquis $xxxx 9 at this price
and so on ! (ad fees incl.)
Plus tax, tag, doc , NYS inspection !
All in LARGE print too !........Geo
But on the other hand some others
do use the SCREAMER ADs with the
one at this price,plus add fee,etc
in SMALL print !.......LOL
So using your example, 20 people are satisfied and 980 are angry. hmmm.
Fortunately, that's not how it works at all. 1000 people come to a dealership in one day because of an ad? Maybe in a dealer's dreams.
I agree my numbers may be overinflated, I do not know what kind of foot traffic a dealer expects from an ad, but I hope it is more than one customer, for the one car he has advertised at that price. Lets say 20 people come in off the ad. There are still 19 people that cannot buy the ad car because it is sold. What do you tell them? Do you offer to order the ad car for them at the advertised price, or offer them a rain check for when a car just like the ad car comes in? Of course not, you try to sell them what you do have on the lot, which 9 times out of 10 is a more optioned (read more expensive and more profitable) model of the ad car. I am not saying that you personally or your dealership uses screamer ad cars. I am saying that these kinds of ads do exist in the car industry, and to me they are misleading.
If I advertised the Focus with air and automatic that most people want you know what I get? People telling me that ABC Ford has one advertised for $2000 less (of course it has no air and 5 speed).
1) Ban all car dealer radio and TV ads. (Not really in the spirit of the "American Way"; TV and radio won't be happy about it.)
2) Stop the government from requiring that information be in the ads. (You can't make sense of the information now anyway.)
3) Require the information to be read slowly and clearly. (Radio and TV will love this because it will increase the length of ads; of course, the added cost will be passed on to consumers).