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Comments
When I first started driving my new 2001 GA/GT I noticed my mileage was in the low 20's, around 21mpg. This was a real surprise as I expected something in the mid 20's. I drive 40 miles a day to work and back, about half of that is at non stop highway speeds of 60-65 mph. I called the service manager at the Pontiac dealer and questioned the lower than expected gas mileage. He assured me that the mileage would improve the more I drove it. Somewhere around 5000k you'll be in the mid 20's, he told me.
Well, he was right. I'm now averaging 25mpg without a/c and about 23 with the air on. I'm approaching 9000 miles on the odometer.
ALSO.....for a while I tried using 89 octane instead of 87 and had no better performance and no greater gas mileage. My car seems to like Gulf regular which goes for around 1.38/gallon here in central NJ
I didn't realize that mileage would vary between the SE's without RamAir and the GT's with that feature. It seems from reading the other responses that the GT's get slightly lower mileage.
At about 12k I noticed we hit the mid 20's, just like you said. But when folks here start mentioning low 30's, I just start thinking something is wrong. Again, I'm a lead foot, I do about 70 -75 MPH when I'm on the GSP. Then it's heavy stop-and-go when I hit the Belt.
I have several mods lined up (thanks to folks here and over at the GA club web site) for my GA that should help with handling and performance/MPG:
1. Strut tower braces. I'll start with the fronts and then do the backs if I notice the difference.
2. Plugs and wires as outlined by the_art_guy.
3. I might go for the RamAir retrofit. A lot of folks don't realize that you can do the RamAir to your SE to get the few extra HP equivalent to the GT model.
4. If I do #3, then I might have to do a cat-back in order to exhaust out the extra HP and see the difference.
Let's not talk about the new stereo system I'm designing... (which will actually utilize the steering wheel controls).
I had a list of things fixed under warranty this week.
#1. Drivers seat back spring - replaced
#2. Squeaky rear windows - they told me they were just dirty!
#3. Passenger doors were hard to unlatch - needed adjustments
#4. The clunk in the front suspension - This was a loose nut somewhere on the lower support, I can give the specifics at a later date if requested.
I have 33K miles now and am about out of warranty. Hope everything holds up now. Someone mentioned this before an I have found this to be true as well...all my problems with this car are small inconviences, never anything with the drivetrain. Thats a big plus for the GA.
My 00 SE V6 gets on average 28 MPG with 90% highway driving at 65-70mph. The best MPG I have calculated was 31, but that was an all day drive on the highway.
Happy Motoring! Have a good holiday.
Let me know, when you get a chance, about the front suspension clunk. I don't think that's my problem, but, anything is possible. I'm hoping to take mine in within the next few weeks to have mine "de-clunked" !
Thanks !
My impressions with the braces are that they don't make a major difference, but they do give a more solid feel that is noticeable. I would think the braces are designed to work with other performance additions, such as a more competive rear sway bar. I intend to get that. I think with the braces, Michelins, and improved sway bar, that my SE will handle nearly as good as the GT.
Well, he was right. <<
This was recently discussed at grandamgt.com and others had the same experience.
>> I tried using 89 octane instead of 87 and had no better performance and no greater gas mileage. <<
The 3400 in the GAGT is a low-compression engine. Unless you experience knocking (which you shouldn't) there's no reason to use higher-octane gas in this engine. As you've seen, you don't get more power or better mileage. Some people do feel a difference, but that's a psychological effect (I paid for "better" gas so my car must run better, etc.)
Thanks to those of you who took the time to write out your opinions and experiences. It was extremely helpful to get both the pros and the cons.
I have a question - the sales person said that there was no 'broken in' period that I needed to worry about. Is this correct?
Rose
Practically, during the break-in period, I did not use cruise control, and drove in different environments: city traffic to work, on the rural roads, and highways. 0-40 mph, 30-50, and 60-75.
The winding rural roads in hilly CT automatically provides for variable speed, as well as the traffic lights in city; only on highway I had to think about changing speed. Just changed lanes time to time: the left is fast, right is slow.
There is a lot of part to break-up, other than engine and transmission. What about axles...
I sorta kinda differ on this. Attended a consumer engine factory tour about five years ago and there was a giant narrow hallway with rack-mounted motors, on robot (???) type racks that were said to run for 48 hours.
This was for a Mazda tour. Didn't see a single human in the hall.
Beyond this statement, I know nutzing....
However, the days of not driving past 45 MPH for the first 100 miles, not over 60 for the next 500, and not over 70 for the first 1000 are gone.
And, I can remember back in the good old days, when I had my brand new Dodge Challenger with its 383 Magnum with 440 heads (those were wonderful days), that the manual said extended breakins were not necessary, however, do not drive at a steady speed for the first 2000 miles, and FULL THROTTLE ACCLERATION WAS BENEFICIAL.
Well, "somebody has gotta do it...". I sure didn't argue with the manual.
Regarding the break-in period, your sales person was wrong. The manual says that for the first 500 miles you shouldn't drive for long periods at the same speed. If you're on the freeway, drive at faster speeds for a little bit and then move over and drive in a slower lane for a few minutes. I don't think the manual says this, but most people also will tell you to not go above 4000 RPM during the break-in period. In other words, don't punch it. I took it really easy until I got to 800 or 900 miles, then started to drive a bit more aggressively and I really didn't floor it until I got up to about 1200 miles.
Also, the manual says for the first 200 miles not to step on the brakes very hard. Break earlier and more gently than you normally would. I took it pretty easy for the first 400 or 500 miles.
With regards to breakin, it's not a speed issue, but a RPM issue. The manual will tell you to vary the rpm's, which means don't use cruise control on the highway. My own personal rule is not exceed 50 - 60% of the engine's RPM range, which means no hard accelaration. And the part about no hard braking is an ABSOLUTE MUST on GAs because of GM's bad choice in brakes. I'm not saying you will have a problem, but you'll increase your chances of not warping (over-heating) them if you take it easy.
I followed the above guidelines on my engine, after the first major service (7500 miles) I let loose, the MPG went up at about this time and the accelaration was smooth. One thing that is overkill but I recommend is changing the oil between 500 - 1000 miles, you wouldn't believe all the metal that accumulates from wearing in a new engine. Most folks will argue that the oil filter will trap this stuff. I beg to differ, I've seen the drain pan from some new cars, it's amazing at the amount of silvery stuff you'll see.
I didn't take it easy on the brakes and noticed the warpage and bad braking at about 12k miles and had them replaced under warranty at about 15k. Then again, GM has acknowledged that this is a design flaw of under-sized brakes. I don't know whether they've improved since the '99 models.
Enjoy the miles!
It only takes about an hour or so, and most likely, you will learn a few things about your car that you didn't know. For example, I found out that you can cancel the cruise control by pressing both the 'coast' and 'accel' buttons at the same time. This way you don't have to step on the brakes or turn off and on the cruise control if you just want to disengage the cruise control. I love this feature and didn't even know about it until I read it in the manual. I'm one of those people who coast up to a light if I see that it is red, so I use this cruise control cancel feature all the time. After all, there's no need to keep accelerating up to a red light that you are going to have to stop at anyway. I have a 2000 Grand Am SE V6, so this will work on the 99+ Grand Am's.
Hope this feature helps those of you that use your cruise control regularly. Drive safe and read those manuals!!
BTW, anyone else found out any 'features' from reading your owners manual that you didn't know about?
I did not have any control over my break in period. My car had 330 miles on it when I bought it. It had been paraded around the track in Dover, Delaware at a NASCAR race and then driven up to my dealer up here in NJ. Who knows how it was driven during those 300+ miles!
There were a lot of radio features I would not have figured out without the manual. Like, I was going to set the clock to the correct time, and I found out that if you set the radio to an RDS station (one where the station's call-letters appear in the display) and then press the hours and minutes buttons at the same time, the radio gets the correct time from the radio signal. This is pretty neat. I also had no idea you could specify different EQ settings for each of the presets.
Thoughts?
Well, a glaring misprint. Can't recall the oil filter number, but for the '99, the manual indicates the wrong oil filter, like a PF 44 instead of a PF 47, or maybe the other way around. Can't recall while here at the 'puter. Did cause the parts guys at NAPA and other places to look at me funny since the misprinted number didn't have a corresponding filter.
Secondly, the instructions for the RESET button for items such as changing the oil filter were confusing in the '99 manual. Seems it conflicted with itself in about three of the instruction sets. It is obvious that that particular manual was written independently by different authors as it developed.
This manual was probably printed in late Spring of '98.
Also, don't like the "drivers ed" section at the beginning of the manual, but with the law-suit hungry public, I'm sure Pontiac and other makers don't have a choice.
Other than those little gotchas.... this manual is "required" reading.
Case in point: We all know that the Chevy Malibu is built on the same platform as the Grand Am, thus sharing many parts. Before my Grand Am, I owned a 99 Malibu. My rotors were warped and there was a service bulliten out on them. I took my car to my local Chevy dealer and they said there was no way they were going to fix them under warranty because it is " a wear item". Needless to say, I ended up paying more than I should have and was very disappointed. Fast forward to now...
I have my 00 Grand Am and there is also a TSB out on the rotors. I took my car to my local Pontiac shop and I asked them to check the brakes, I didn't even know for sure if the rotors were warped. 30 minutes later I get my car back and notice nice new, shiny rotors. I asked them if they replaced the rotors and they said they did because they were warped. I was happy, didn't have to pay a dime and drove off.
In both instances I was told that the new rotors were in fact made from a different mix of metals and are supposed to be much more durable than the stock rotors.
Back to the mirrors...I did get my Pontiac shop (the same one that did the rotors) to paint my mirrors, instead of just replacing them. One of the service techs there said that they were aware of the TSB and would replace the mirrors with new black plastic ones. I went to the service manager and asked him if they would paint them silver, to match my car (as they are on the GT models) he said sure and so they just painted right over the faded plack ones.
I think this kind of stuff varies from dealer to dealer. I have experienced both good ones and bad ones, so I think my statement is valid. If you have a good shop then they should cover the TSB's under warranty, if you don't then they probably won't.
Good luck and safe driving!
I wonder what the cost comparison would be between a base SE Grand Am 4 cylinder and a loaded Cavalier. The GA probably wouldn't be that much more in price and IMHO you get so much more in value with the GA.
I liked the Grand Am when I got my car a couple months ago, but didn't get one because I was scared of the GM reliability. I got a Mazda Protege instead. I now have 15K in 7 months, and have been back to the shop like 4 times for stupid stuff (alignment, warped rotors, etc), so buying Japanese doesn't necessarily mean you are going to get a better car.
With the nice rebates now, I might just see what kinda trade-in deal I can wing on the Grand Am vs. the Protege...
I remember a review by one of the magazines on the 2.4 motor. Several vehicles of the GrandAm size were being measured for 0-60 ratings. Both GrandAms were compared, the V-6, then the 4. The magazine said after the 6 was rated, that the testers in the completed lane heard this loud roar and saw this red streak about 1/2 second later just cross the line. It was the 2.4. "What the heck was that??? Was that that 4 cylinder GrandAm?" They were amazed.
Obviously, that made me really feel good since it had been YEARS since I had a 4 banger. And this was no mere 4 banger. This 2.4 cycliner motor is a very nice box.
When I finally traded in the '96 for the '99, I was equally amazed by the V-6. Definitely could feel a better balanced pull in the point-and-shoot department. Lots of wonderful "sweet spots" in the acceleration. It will surprise. And, it yawns at high speeds when the cruise is on. REally hard to push this motor.
So, which is better? NEITHER. Both are marvelous. Depends on your wants and wallet.
Make no mistakes folks, this is not a light econo-box car. Get the V6. You'll be happy.
Interestingly, when they reviewed the Accord and Camry, guess what engine they drove? The 6 cylinder of course. I was so mad at their lack of objectivity I cancelled my subscription.
BTW - I've heard from many people how good the 4 cylinder is. If I had to get a car for my teenage kid I'd definitely consider the 4-cylinder. As for me - just call me the rocketman, and I'm really spoiled with the GT!
But once you are an accomplished driver and drive a V6, nothing else compares. You get the combination of the decent fuel economy and the power when needed. After my first V6, I refused to go back to anything less for anything that weighs 3k lbs or more.
The only thing better is nice V8, but we all know what happens to the MPG :-(
I'm serious about changing the spark plugs, they really make a difference.
I love this car!!
I trust you got a good deal on it. Take good care of it and have loads of fun driving it. You shoulda got the Red - it goes faster, but the Silver looks sharp too !!!
V6 - 4 cyl. debate....I remember in 95 when I was shopping for a GA - I test drove a 4 cyl GT, then got into a V6. Wow, what a difference!
No comparison for me. The V6 won hands down. Of course, when it was time to go for a current model
there was no question which engine to drive. The 3400 is a nice improvement over the 3100.
PS: My wife drives a 99 Malibu V6 and I'm very impressed with the performance. Having that extra power when you need it is a secure feeling.
I got the car for a little over 20.5K (with taxes and all that other stuff). Is that good? It sure feels good. That price includes a factory rebate.
I was able to put a nice chunk down so my monthly payments aren't too scary. The insurance is less than I had thought it would be. It's rough insuring a 5.0 mustang convertible!
I was originally looking for a white GA. Red is very nice and yes, I understand that it DOES go faster.
Question: Do any of you take your cars to car washes? The ones where they have folks dry them afterwards?
Another question: Should I feel guilty about wanting to take it to get washed? Does this make me a 'bad' new car owner?
Also, do any of you have problems scraping the front when going in and out of driveways? It's not the body of the car that I'm scraping..It's some vertical piece of something. Maybe it's there to protect the car underneath?
Re the front scraping going in and out driveways - mine does that often also. It happens less often if you can enter / exit at an angle
Regarding finish care... I go to the chamois type slop slop, spinning chamois brush type washes. That's the best description I have it for it. I *avoid* the brush washes that have nylon filaments. Look for any of the franchais type car washes, and main brand gasoline stations, and you'll "probably" be safe.
I AVOID any carwash place that use humans to wax and dry the car. These guys have caused swirl marks on previous vehicles for me and it just isn't worth getting into an argument with them.
Also, it is unnecessary to buy a buffer or anything like that. I'm serious. Your car has CLEARCOAT on it, and this stuff is designed to remain shiny waaaaay past the car's life. When you clean or wax the car, you are not even touching the paint, you are touching the clear coat. Think of taking care of polyurethene (sp?) coated tables and you'll be close. Don't fall for waxes that restore OXIDIZED paint, because you don't have any, as long as your car has its clearcoat intact.
Here are some tips that I have learned, as a result of having one of my former students (I'm a school teacher) showing me some goodies at the car shop he works for. He showed me a clay bar that the detail shops use. It is designed for car clearcoat cleaning and basically, it along with Windex liberally applied, will pull all pine tar and stuff that just sticks to the paint, and any stubborn road film. Although the body shop's clay is far more generic, you can buy this stuff at most auto shops, and also at any place that sells Clay Magic. It honestly works, and keeps my nearkt 60k mileage car body in almost new shape.
Secondly, don't buy any wax that requires heavy buffing or heavy cloth wiping. This is how you get swirl marks, mostly noticeable in the sun. Remember that the ClearCoat is designed to LOOK shiny forever, even without any type of wax coating. However, after clay cleaning the body, you'll want to complete the final cleaning with a light duty wax that has hardly any abrasives (the clay bar has done the abrasive scrubbing for you).
Typically, a detail supply truck will come by your dealer once weekly and you can buy any showroom type wax from there. Very easy to apply, no HARD RUBBING required, no swirl or buff marks show up in the ClearCoat.
You would want to apply this once a month, just to keep the shiny look in "wet" condition. Should take no more than 30 minutes for the whole car.
The Clay Magic application would be done once every three months or so. You will get some road film that just won't come off and the Clay Magic is honestly the easiest way to get rid of it.
Anyway, this is my routine and basically, the whole approach I'm following is exactly how the detail shop does their work. There is really not that much work involved and the results are immediate.
I think in short, don't "love" the car body too much.
Oh yeah, the front scraping. That air dam is separate from the other wind deflector pieces and can be replaced. It really isn't that expensive. I'm not a fan of the thing, but.... Anyway, I still have the original and it is not torn and has done nearly 60 k of scrapings.