Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Volkswagen Passat

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Comments

  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    anonymousposts

    But none of the cars you mentioned are as fun to drive as the Passat (in my opinion). As Automobile Magazine said:
    "The Bug may have been bought by more exterminators looking for a cute way to advertise their particular brand of insect genocide, but it was the Passat that made you reconsider that Mercedes-Benz C-class you always thought you wanted."

     Where are the stats about the Korean cars being more reliable? Can you post a link?
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    Another important consideration when buying or leasing a car is depreciation and residual value. Consider this quote from ALG (Automotive Lease Guide)
    "Residual value performance has long been considered the best way to analyze the health of an automotive manufacturer's vehicles," said John Blair, CEO of ALG. He added that the awards will "provide consumers and industry professionals with a clear set of vehicle depreciation benchmarks and provide a yardstick for automotive brands to measure themselves."

    According to the ALG, its Residual Value Awards honor "those vehicles in each segment predicted to retain the highest percentage of their original price." In other words, these are the cars that will be worth the most in three or four years, when most leases will end. In addition to naming specific cars for awards, ALG also gave awards to two manufacturers. Volkswagen of America won the "Industry Brand Residual Value Award" and Mercedes-Benz USA won the "Luxury Brand Residual Value Award."

    The other ALG Residual Value Award winners were as follows:

    Compact Car: Mini Cooper
    Midsize Car: Volkswagen Passat
    Near Luxury Car: BMW 3 Series
    Luxury Car: Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class
    Minivan: Honda Odyssey
    Sub Compact SUV: Honda CR-V
    Compact SUV: Acura MDX
    Fullsize SUV: Toyota Sequoia
    Compact Truck: Toyota Tacoma
    Fullsize Truck: Toyota Tundra

    Everything I've read says that the Passat depreciates less than anything in it's class. A smart investment!
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    My last message was addressed to several folks, but one message in particular prompted it. I see that message has now disappeared. That is not at all a bad thing.

    However there are several folks here who need to listen up.

    We are here to discuss the vehicles, NOT each other and the gratuitous slaps at other posters are not welcome, not appropriate and do NOTHING to bolster the postion you are trying to make.

    So could we please calm down and get back to a *rational* comparison of these vehicles?

    Trust me... Your first born is not being held hostage to the world being convinced that YOUR opinion is the quote CORRECT endquote opinion above all others.

    Capiche??

    (hmm, is that how you spell that? :-))

    Moving along now...
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I'm sorry, but there is more personal invective and argumentative and disruptive posts occuring here than I can keep up with while also attending to every single other discussion on the Sedans and the the Sedans comparisons board.

    I have to call a halt to this one for the moment.

    We'll be back.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We can try this one more time, but please understand that if this discussion reverts to the ugliness that has been recently occuring, I will have no choice but to shut it down for good.

    This is just a matter of logistics. Some of you have been posting as though you are oblivious to the rules of our community. Besides offending at least 75% of the readers, there simply is not enough time in the day for me to attend to the rest of my obligations AND continue to clean up messes here.

    Any questions, please email me.

    Please feel free to resume discussing these three vehicles. Keep in mind that civil and respectful messages are requirements for you to maintain your Town Hall privileges.

    Discussing each other is not acceptable.

    Pat, Host
  • onlyimportsonlyimports Member Posts: 29
    The sales figures for 2003 to date goes like this:
    Accord : 56784 units
    Camrys : 55348
    Passats: 8648
    This trend tells me that the battle is still between the 2 best mainstream sedan.
    www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp
  • leifleif Member Posts: 41
    You forgot to include the taurus. It was #1 in sales for february.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Maybe I should jump on a Camry SE? It is tempting.
  • leifleif Member Posts: 41
    When does toyota dump it's cars into rental fleets?
  • kenbbkenbb Member Posts: 38
    Can you give me more info on the 1000 cash back from toyota? What type of cash? on which models? Is it combined with anything? Where did you get this info?
  • leifleif Member Posts: 41
    Can you back up your numbers?
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=3972

    "Lyons quashed another rumor that the mid-sized car would be sold as fleet only. Since at least 1997, about half of Taurus sales have been fleet.

    "There is no plan whatsoever to make this car solely fleet," he said, adding that the company plans to maintain the 50-50 mix of retail and fleet sales."

    http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:o1TZJUcLbGoC:www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp%3Farticle%3D4518+taurus+50%25+fleet+sales&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

    "Chevy's share of the passenger car market has slipped to 9.94 percent in 2001, including rental and commercial fleet sales, compared with Toyota's 9.63 percent share and Honda's 9.13-percent share, with almost no fleet sales in that mix."

    http://www.europeanhonda.demon.nl/best_selling_car_1998(2).htm

    http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:FpeOYaljnzQC:www.autopacific.com/press/010203I.html+honda+2%25+fleet+sales&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

    ""January for many companies is packed with fleet sales, but Honda doesn't do fleet sales,'' Hall said. "If companies (buying fleet cars) think times are getting tough, they'll hold back . . . and that makes things look better for Honda.''"

    http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:tu_qaZ_u6rEC:www.autopacific.com/press/001214I.html+camry+10%25+fleet+sales&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

    "Toyota's growth also has come with a limited amount of fleet sales or customer cash incentives. Toyota fleet sales, while they occasionally spike, rarely climb into the double-digit percentage range. And although Toyota is known for its model year-end sales with aggressive financing rates, the automaker has rarely resorted to cash-back tactics."

    Just let me know if you need any more back-up.
  • mikek37mikek37 Member Posts: 411
    Very nice use of references..lol. u know how to back up your stuff
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Haven't you guys learned that by now about anonymous? :)
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    onlyimports,
    Are the sales numbers for the US only, or are they worldwide sales?
  • leifleif Member Posts: 41
    Thanks for the info. So basically more sales{not including fleets}=BETTER?
  • amingaming Member Posts: 119
    "Thanks for the info. So basically more sales{not including fleets}=BETTER?"

    IMO... the majority of the population prefer (think it's BETTER) the Accord.

    By the way Anon rules.
  • onlyimportsonlyimports Member Posts: 29
    There are US sales only. I've read somewhere VW sold the most vehicles in China for many years being that they are one of the first to manufacture cars there. GM,Honda,Toyota are starting to fight for a market there.
  • atlantabennyatlantabenny Member Posts: 735
    VW has been selling their Brazilian models (mostly the VW Fox, remember those ?) in China for a long time now as has been pointed out by onlyimports.

    Some perspectives are in order: 1) European traders have historically dealt with China long before other major economic powers have. 2) As any manufacturer likes to do, VW squeezed the most out of its old models selling them in a market where there's little competition. In China, it made sense to sell the old-tech VW Fox.

    How it's a factor in this thread: VW's China sales contribute almost nothing to comparison shoppers of Passat/Accord/Camry/Altima except to think that VW's income from China (and this could be tremendous in the near future) can fund R & D and after-sales support for current and future Passats and other 1st world VW models.

    PS VW has also been selling the current A6 in China with a 1.8 T engine !
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    Actually I was more interested in total worldwide sales for these models, including all of Europe and Asia, not just China and the US.

    More is not necessarily better or the Ford Trucks would be the best vehicles in the US, and some might argue that they are...
  • onlyimportsonlyimports Member Posts: 29
    I think It won't be accurate to count the total selling numbers of these cars worldwide because the models and spec of these cars differ from countries to countries. Asia and Europe has different version of Accords. Camrys are not available in some countries and they cost about the same price as a BMW 5 series in the UK. Passat are mostly diesel powered in Asia and so on. The best selling car in the world is the Corolla. The Toyota Yaris is in the top 10 sales in the UK. I think it's fair to compare the models thats available on our zone.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Thanks for the support mike, bodble, and aming. Glad to know my efforts were appreciated :)

    leif: More sales does not always mean better. But when you can achieve high sales with one of the shorter warrantys in the business, hardly any incentives (especially nothing like 0.0% for 5+ years or $2500-$3000 cash back), and not be the cheapest car out there, that says alot for your product.

    The F-Series sales include how many different models? F150, F250, F350, SVT, Harley Davidson, regular cab, extended cab, supercrew, sportside, flareside, duallie, V6, V8, Turbo Diesels, short bed, medium bed, long bed, XL, XLT, and Lariat. The Accord comes in 4 cylinder DX, LX, EX or V6 LX and EX. Only options are leather and your choice of transmission in the 4 cylinder models. Trucks are also heavily sold as company vehicles and many of the higher series are sold to places like Lowes. If you compare models that do NOT sell to fleets the Accord is the top-selling car in America.
  • leifleif Member Posts: 41
    Even after chopping ford truck sales in half for MY 2002 they still come out ahead of the accord.

    Ford Trucks:437,515
    Honda Accord:399,213

    source:motortrend jan 2003
  • leifleif Member Posts: 41
    You started this latest round. What do you think? Do more sales=Better?
  • onlyimportsonlyimports Member Posts: 29
    IMO, more sales translates that a car or truck has a proven record of quality and reliability that has been passed on by ownership satisfaction through word of mouth or referral or statistics. In another words, half a million owners judgments can't be wrong.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    You still have to keep in mind the many variations of even the F150 that are available. Along with the 0.0% financing, heavy discounts, and company purchases.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    The Passat GLX beat out the Accord and Camry for OVERALL ratings in 2003 family and large sedans in the April auto issue of Consumer Reports. The Passat wagon is also at the top of the list for wagons and minivans. The Passat GLX also tops the list for CR Safety Assessment. The Accord was not in the safety assesment, possibly because it is too new.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    "its relatively safe to say the accord is the undisputed winner."
    I'd say that's a real stretch. The six cylinder Passat won in CR, and where did you get the pecentages for 4cyl. vs 6 cyl.? If you total up all the reviews from all sources (and I'm not going to list them all again) the Passat and Accord are VERY close, there is no runaway winner. The Passat costs more because it offers more standard features and options. The Passat is close to the end of this generation (7 years old) while the Accord is all new. The only consistent trend is the Passat being at the top of most lists year after year.
    A note of interest, I had my windows tinted on my Passat last week, and the shop said the Passats and some of the other German cars take slightly longer to tint because they are built so well. With all the tight seals and gaskets, it is more difficult to do. They didn't charge me any more, but he did say the Passats are definitely tighter and more precision than most cars.
  • mikek37mikek37 Member Posts: 411
    UM YEAH OKAY. I ahve heard this before, it takes longer because the car is so tight and blah blah blah. The last time I checked, the way they apply tint doesnt involve gaskets and tight seals. Doesnt tint involve glass. I dont understand where seals and gaskets come into play. For one, why would u go to a place where they take your car apart to apply tint. You were really digging with that comment.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    mikek37

    I'm just the messenger telling you what this specialty shop said. They do thousands of cars per year. Don't shoot the messenger.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    anonymousposts

    Why do you insist on saying the same things over and over? Both cars have come out on top, the latest being the Passat in CR. That's new information, and you always go back to past reviews which we've already covered. Let's just discuss new information and not rehash the same info over and over again. We could do that forever with no end in sight.
    I'm not going to get into the trap of naming all the comparos and tests that Passat won vs. Accord. We've done that, been there.
    They're both very good cars. Drive them and make your own choice.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    the passat was recently "freshened" up a bit and a complete "rehauled" is not in the near future. and what safety features and options does the $30K passat have that the ex v6 accord doesn't have? and why is it news to you that the far majority of both passats and accords are in four cylinder format?
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    The rehauled next generation is actually going to be available fall of next year as a 2005.

    "and why is it news to you that the far majority of both passats and accords are in four cylinder format?"
    It's not news to me. I would like to know what the actual percentages are.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    and the fall after that the accord will have it's own "freshen" up. these cars are the class of their class. will american cars ever get back in the game? the 2004 malibu doesn't look too impressive to me. it's like they're content to go the "value" route.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    The Accord 4 banger barely edged out the Passat 1.8T in the ratings of the same issue.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    in the next issue CR will be testing the v6 passat and accord. i don't think the passat will exactly blow the accord away.

    does anybody uderstand why the camry is still rated so high?
  • mikek37mikek37 Member Posts: 411
    The camry is a superb car in its class. Couple that with excellent ergonomics, stellar reliabilty and relatively good resale and you have a great car.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    i find the interior decor rather disappointing. if it came down to the altima or offerings from the domestic makes, i'll take the camry though.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Because the Camry is rated BELOW the Altima in terms of reliability isn't it.

    But I find that the Camry is roomier than the Accord, looks better than the Accord (My opinion) and in some ways I like the interior better than the Accord (SE model) but the Accord has better interior materials.
  • shadowfax2shadowfax2 Member Posts: 22
    They're all good cars. I would hope that, for $5,000-$6,000 more, the Passat V-6 WOULD prevail in a comparison with the Accord V-6. I bought my Accord for reliability, higher gas mileage, use of regular fuel, and interior comfort. The Passat has more snob appeal, but I had other uses for my $6,000...
  • bobo36bobo36 Member Posts: 7
    Your right about the honda transmissions issues and that person who said get the honda simple as that isn't correct. he might have a new one and all new cars should be great but the camary dollar for dollar is the best car in america. i've owned both and i found the automatic 4 cyl camary xle to be luxorius and just so dependable. in fact it's the most popular stolen car in boston every year. i've had NO problems with it at all and i'm well over 100,000 and you know it's the same engine as the lexus. the honda when it got older started driving like a truck. the camary stays consistent and it'll treat you as good as you treat it
  • carman54carman54 Member Posts: 14
    I want to buy a new Honda but cannot decide between the two. The Civic quality feels inferior to the Accords, which to me feels great. The only concern I have about the Accord is the driver seat feels too low for me and Ive raised to as much as i can. I cannot get comfortable behind the wheel.I love the car and it drives great..Any suggestions??
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Does anyone not find the Passat V6, with only 190hp, a bit underpowered, especially in 4motion guise? And I found out the Passat doesn't even turn off the lights automatically. Sheesh!
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    I have the Passat GLX 4Motion wagon. It has great torque from low rpms. I would say for most drivers of family cars, it is quite the opposite of being "underpowered". I have cruised up mountains with 3 people and the back fully packed with camping gear at 6000 feet, loafing at 2000 rpm when many similar cars would require 5000rpm to make it.

    The tiptronic shifts quickly up and down, either automatically or when I want.

    The car accelerates quickly both from standing as well as in the 60-80mph passing range. Does the latest Accord have more hp and accelerate perhaps 0.5 to 1s faster 0-60? Sure, but for most owners of family cars, that is not an issue. More of a problem is that both the Accord and Camry are not available as wagons.

    - D
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Did you compare the A4 Avant to the GLX 4motion? Aside from the obvious greater passenger capacity of the 4motion, were there significant differences in driving dynamics? It is also interesting that you find the tip in the 4motion quick to upshift and downshift 'cause Car & Driver recently really criticized the tip in a W8 for being slow to respond.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    According to the Car & Driver sedan comparison the automatic 4 cylinder 1.8T Passat did 0-60 in 7.5 seconds, which is faster than even VW claims for that model. I would expect the 6cyl. FWD to be even faster. The 6cyl 4-motion VW may be closer in acceleration to the 4 because of the 4 wheel drive.
    There was a big difference in the 30-60 acceleration of the Passat and Accord in that same comparison. The Accord was much slower. I don't have the magazine with me, but I think it was acceleration in 4th gear, and the Accord had a manual tranny while the Passat was Tiptronic.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    are you still a salesman? if so, a Toyota Salesman. Be a good man and send people to the Honda store. The Accord really leaped frog the Camry with it's last redesign. The Camry is out of place among the Passat and Accord.
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    Gordon,

    Yes, I have heard others complain about somewhat slow shifts. It is an adaptive transmission, so it strongly depends on how you have (or someone else has) driven the car some time before. Some people go as far as to "chip" (change the computer of) the transmission.

    On the other hand, I have never had a problem with slow shifts in mine. There is one highway exit where I almost always shift into tiptronic mode and downshift, and I would estimate the downshift usually takes on the order of 1/10 to 2/10 of a second. One gripe: the rpms must be below ~4000 in the new gear - else it does not shift. I think that is a bit conservative.

    YMMV,

    - D
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    From your posts in other topics, it appears that you've done some research into the A4 Avant. Ignoring numbers and specs, based on seat-of-the-pants, butt-on-the-seat experience, what's your assessment of the roominess (or lack of) of the Avant v. the Passat. Particularly back seat and cargo room. Sufficient for short weekend trips for family of 4 with 2 kids? My head tells me I should be considering a Passat, but my heart says Avant!
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    bodble2. You can do a side by side comparison of the A4 Avant Vs. Passat Wagon on Edmunds. Just from a glance it looks like the A4 is about $4K more, and you don't get a lot for that difference unless you live in an area with a lot of snow, because the Avant has all wheel drive available. If you don't need all wheel drive the Passat is lighter, gets better gas mileage, has a longer wheelbase and has more luggage capacity. I believe the A4 covers some routine service, but you can pay for a lot of service with the difference in cost for these cars. The engines are the same, and the Passat has better reliability.
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