The Passat (’99 1.8T 5M) was my first European car in a long while. I didn’t like the way it felt at first, but once I got used to it, I couldn’t get enough of it. The Passat I owned was a driver’s car, and had zero problems during the four years that I had it.
This time around I went for the Accord (’03 EX V6 Cpe 5A), because it made more economic sense when comparing similar levels of equipment. Plus, I wasn’t too thrilled with the cosmetic changes they made to the Passat during the ’02 model year. Also, I’d never owned a Honda product and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about.
Obviously, a car with a manual transmission and a turbo charged engine will give a driver a completely different experience than a V6 automatic. However, I was not expecting it to be that different. I still miss some of the Passat’s driving dynamics.
Below is a list of a few things that I miss and don’t miss from the Passat.
From the Passat I miss: -The higher feeling of control I had over the car -The lack of rattles (the Accord has a couple already -– the Passat had none in four years) -The ergonomics (I haven’t been able to find comfortable seat position in the Acccord) -The engine response at freeway speeds
I am glad I no longer have to deal with: -The higher road/wind noise -The lack of power at the low end (turbo lag) -Having to rev up the engine so high when going up steep hills -Having to remove the plastic cover from underneath the car before every oil change (the quick lube place would charge an extra $20 otherwise!). -Having to change light bulbs somewhat often -The excessive brake dust on the front wheels
Overall, both the Passat and the Accord are great cars. I think they are targeted at slightly different types of drivers though.
What a bargain! Who else would offer a 7" NAV screen with Touch-Voice activation on a 2.4L In-Line 4 Sedan? I test drove one and it was sweet. I currently drive a Lexus LS400, which is sweet, but it doesn't have the NAV and the insurance on it is pricy-not to mention maintenance which they overcharge just for being a Luxry car. Being a Lexus LS400, it will probably last me another 10 years, but I was just thinking theoretically that if it didn't, I would get the Accord 2.4L EX-L NAV for MSRP of $26,160. I can probably get about $2,160 off MSRP and pay $24K out the door. It's hard for me to feel the difference between a V6 and In-Line 4 Accord, so I would probably save the $2K for something else.
hoverdrive, I think you'd find that VW has addressed most of those issues you no longer have to deal with. On my 02' the low end power is excellent with the 170hp 1.8T, and there is very little wind noise, less than my Infiniti. The brake dust is still an issue, and I haven't had the car long enough to have a problem with the bulbs. I did disable the daytime running lights.
In my book, anyway. The #1 reason is its fabulous crash test results. That alone puts the Camry and Passat out of the running. It's unfortunate, because I have a 1994 Camry that I love, but I want the safest available car for the price.
The #2 reason is that it has such a nice mix of firmness and cushness and feels more sturdy than the Camry.
The #3 reason is the questions about Passat reliability. I was in a friend's fairly new Passat once and two things just fell off in the cabin. Also, I owned a Rabbit in high school and though it was cute and peppy, it broke down constantly and had very strange electrical problems. I'm sure that Volkswagen has progressed since then, but I'll never forget dealing with that.
I guess it's always comes down to personal opinion and past experience.
hmurphy, the Passat is top rated in the Insurance Institute and industry crash tests. It also has an overhead airbag that the accord does not even offer.
I assume you're referring to side curtain airbags. The 2003 Accord EX V6 comes with side curtain airbags as standard equipment. They may not be as widely available across the lineup as the Passat, but it is available on the Accord nonetheless.
Since this residual value thing is STILL being hawked, I'll once again bring up the fact that the 2003 Accord was awarded best value in midsized sedans by Intellichoice, in both the under-$21000 and over-$21000 category. This is a much more "real world" view of how much value a car provides than simply looking at residual values, since it takes into consideration all aspects of ownership.
So if you're looking at the value that a car provides to the actual owner, rather than a value that a dealer uses in calculating a lease, the Accord is the car that's on top.
If you've seen a reference to "head airbags", I believe that's just another term for side curtain airbags. Edmunds' safety page refers to a "head airbag" that's standard in both the Passat and the Accord EX V6.
At any rate, I was curious so I checked VW's site and the online Passat brochure. They specify dual front and front side airbags and side curtain airbags on the Passat. No other airbags are mentioned, either as standard equipment or as an option. If they had some exclusive airbag that nobody else had, I'd expect that they'd mention it in their brochure. At any rate, that's exactly the airbag configuration that I have on my 2003 Accord EX V6.
Why does it seem that every thread you post seems to exhibit blatant lies. Head curtain airbags, even a simple-minded person would understand that it is just a different name for SIDE CURTAIN airbags.
Every statement you make, we will call you on, and most of the time, you are incorrect. Stating that the Passat has a higher residual value, or that the accord lacks head airbags; or that the Passat is held in higher regards by the critics, the list goes on and on.
The only sources that you quote from are EDMUNDS and AUTOMOBILE. Yet you seems to turn your head to all other major publications. I.E. Autoweek, Motor Trend, Car and Driver and so on.
The major item that I find quite annoying is the fact you keep uttering the following idea ‘’ Passat owners can chip their cars out to obtain more horsepower then the accord’’ Are you serious? Any rational individual would never do this to his or her automobile. You fail to note that after chipping your car, you completely void the factory warranty (which is a death sentence considering VW’s reliability rating), increase the stress factor for not only the transmission but most notably the engine and other mechanical parts.
An accord owner could say the same. ‘’Well, I could put a supercharger and intercooler, then throw in some notorious and my car would have 1,450 horsepower’’ Who are you kidding???
One more thing,can you stop preaching about the new generation PASSAT. The car isn’t even here and you are claiming it will be the next show stopper.
In my earlier post, I was referring to the IIHS ratings for these cars. Though they are classified differently according to price (Passat is under "Midsize moderately priced cars" and Accord is under "Midsize inexpensive cars"), the Accord has all "G" or "Good" ratings, while the Passat gets overall "Good" ratings, but an "A" or "Acceptable" in "Restraints/dummy kinematics." The new Accord is ranked at the top of its classification, while the Passat is ranked third in its list. Since both cars are considered "midsize," the Accord wins out.
And the Accord V6 does come with front, side and head/curtain airbags (same as Passat).
They're both very safe, so it's a toss up. I'm going for the Accord due to price (and a bad experience with a Volkswagen in my formative years). Neither car is a bad choice, safety wise.
why isnt the nissan maxima in this mix? just curious. the new 2004 kinda looks like the passat on the exterior.... thats not a compliment. but theres more to cars than exterior looks, oh thats true.
"It also has an overhead airbag that the accord does not even offer."
Your post #1228:
"No, I'm talking about a head airbag which is standard on the VW and not at all available on the accord."
What is unclear about those two posts? They are without any doubt completely wrong. I asked about the ORIGINAL post, #1225, not your correction in #1234. You made the same completely erroneous claim TWO TIMES, and then finally did your research and corrected your two errors. And #1234 didn't even make reference to the fact that it was a correction, it just slid in the correct information that you finally researched. Why is that?
If you go back to the previous generation of Passat over seven years ago, it would be interesting to see who sold more cars in the global market.
But that's outside of this discussion which I assume is to discuss the current generations, and the current generation Passat is definitely on the radar. Sales have increased by double digits.
"But that's outside of this discussion which I assume is to discuss the current generations, and the current generation Passat is definitely on the radar. Sales have increased by double digits.
Another non-sequitor. How does the success of the current generation Passat support the claim that it "always has been a show-stopper"? Completely untrue. The smoke screen about the global market notwithstanding.
You lost me Talon.... All I know is that the comparison says the head airbag is "standard" on the Passat and "not available" on the accord. That's the bottom line after all your ranting..
The current generation, which this discussion is about, has always been a show stopper. It was when it was introduced and it remains so today. You're the one that brought up previous generations.
"You're the one that brought up previous generations."
No, you were... in case you forgot your post #1234...
"you are claiming it will be the next show stopper."
6) They always have been, and I expect them to carry on the tradition."
"Always" means since the Passat was available. Not just the current generation. Check your dictionary for the definition of "always". If you meant otherwise, perhaps you should word your posts more carefully. So you brought it up, not me. I'm just replying to the extreme inaccuracy of your statement.
"Why does it seem that every thread you post seems to exhibit blatant lies. Head curtain airbags, even a simple-minded person would understand that it is just a different name for SIDE CURTAIN airbags."
1) If you do a direct comparison of the cars in this price range on Edmunds, They list a de-powered airbag, a head air bag and a side airbag under safety features. For the Passat it says "standard" for the head airbag. The Camry says "optional". The accord EX 4dr w/leather, 2.4 cyl. 5M, which they must think is comparable to the Passat, says "not available". If you can read a chart you can understand that.
"Every statement you make, we will call you on, and most of the time, you are incorrect. Stating that the Passat has a higher residual value, or that the accord lacks head airbags; or that the Passat is held in higher regards by the critics, the list goes on and on."
2) I AM correct. Passat does have the higher residual value for leasing. I posted the link from the insurance companies and the source for airbag comparisons, and I can give you countless articles that praise the Passat.
"The only sources that you quote from are EDMUNDS and AUTOMOBILE. Yet you seems to turn your head to all other major publications. I.E. Autoweek, Motor Trend, Car and Driver and so on."
3) And back to you, you only quote articles favorable to the accord. So what, that's why we're on this forum? Oh, and add Consumer Reports where they preferred the 6cyl. Passat over the accord.
"The major item that I find quite annoying is the fact you keep uttering the following idea ‘’ Passat owners can chip their cars out to obtain more horsepower then the accord’’ Are you serious? Any rational individual would never do this to his or her automobile. You fail to note that after chipping your car, you completely void the factory warranty (which is a death sentence considering VW’s reliability rating), increase the stress factor for not only the transmission but most notably the engine and other mechanical parts."
4) I know many rational people that opt for performance options, because the Passat has the option of being a driver's performance car for very little $$, unlike most of the competition. That's why performance oriented drivers like the Passat, it can be a family car or a performance car for very little relative cost. All those I know personally have never had an engine problem except for the coil issue which you guys love to gloat about, and which VW has taken care of. My daughter's 03' accord has some rattles and groans that her dealer has yet to find and correct.
"An accord owner could say the same. ‘’Well, I could put a supercharger and intercooler, then throw in some notorious and my car would have 1,450 horsepower’’ Who are you kidding???"
5) You would spend 10 times as much for your performance add ons, and you might get the same result as my inexpensive chip which can be swapped in 10 minutes.
"One more thing,can you stop preaching about the new generation PASSAT. The car isn’t even here and you are claiming it will be the next show stopper."
6) They always have been, and I expect them to carry on the tradition.
"1)If you do a direct comparison of the cars in this price range on Edmunds, They list a de-powered airbag, a head air bag and a side airbag under saftey features. For the Passat it says "standard" for the head airbag. The Camry says optional. The accord EX 4dr w/leather, 2.4 cyl. 5M, which they must think is comparable to the Passat, says optional. If you can read a chart you can understand that."
But isn't that a LOT different than what you said originally?
"It also has an overhead airbag that the accord does not even offer."
You claimed that the "head airbag" was not even offered in the Accord. It now seems by your own admission that this is not true. Or are you taking the position that your claim was NOT incorrect?
"One more thing,can you stop preaching about the new generation PASSAT. The car isn’t even here and you are claiming it will be the next show stopper."
6)They always have been, and I expect them to carry on the tradition."
Oh, really? Prior to them making the "marketing stroke of genius" of sharing an Audi chassis with the Passat, it was hardly a blip on the radar.
"No, read my post, it say's "not available" for the accord. I corrected it after I went back and read it again."
And exactly how is "not at all available" and "not even offered" any different? To say that a "head airbag" is not at all available on the Accord is in no way shape or form any more accurate than your first statement. The car that sits in my garage right now is concrete proof of the inaccuracy of BOTH statements. Regardless of how you try to spin it.
And if you go back far enough with the Japanese cars, they were laughed at by performance drivers. What's your point? All of these cars have made progress, and it's well known in automotive circles that Honda benchmarked the Passat with the 03'.
The point is... you stated that Passats have always been show stoppers, which clearly is NOT the case... you only have to go back 1 generation to find a non-show stopper. So far, VW has a winning streak of 1... the current generation. The stuff about laughing at Japanese cars and benchmarking the Passat is totally irrelevant to this discussion.
Yes, everyone has made progress, but the current generation of Passat is the first success story for the line, after a long and ugly streak of no shows.
If I'm not mistaken, the Hyundai Sonata uses a double wishbone suspension setup also. But unlike the Accord, it has sloppy handling.
BMW & Porsche utilize MacPhersons up front....while Subarus utilize MacPhersons all around...yet know one says a BMW or Porsche has sloppy handling...the 5-series consistently (in magazine testing) exhibits "superior" handling to the GS....And I guess the WRX is a poor handling car for its "rally-inspired" suspension....
cutting through the BS....it's really about suspension tuning.
You can take the Accord suspension and turn it into a sloppy handling car by softening the spring rates, the compression and rebound rates of the dampers, reducing the diameters of the sway bars...remove the sway bars, etc.
Honda typically tunes their suspension to be more on the sportier side. Toyota leans more towards comfort, The Passat...somewhere in between.
Consumer Reports rated 2003 top-line V6 models and ranked the Passat above the Accord, Mazda6 and Hyunday XG350.
It's probably an affirmation to Passat drivers of the wisdom of their decision, and rightly so IMO, given that CR dispassionately tests cars to advise non-enthusiasts and the general public (one & the same ?) of good buying decisions.
That said, the Passat's price ($30.7k, CR's "representative price") seems to position it against the likes of the Acura TL, etc. This price disparity is a negative modifier I'd give to the CR test (could make a shopper say "I'll get the Passat GLX because it's better than the Accord," not giving weight to the $4k price difference).
Also, reliability was judged as "average" vs "above average" for the Accord and the 6.
With the appropriate budget, would I buy the Passat GLX ? I'd have to first compare it, not with the Accord/Camry/Altima/Mazda6/etc. but with next-tier models like the Acura TL, Infiniti G350, etc.
Throw in reliability, resale (not residual) value, total cost of ownership, etc., and it's probably not a Passat-outcome.
You could use the reliability argument against most of the European cars. People continue to drive them because they're more fun to drive than most of their counterparts, they're not just boring appliances.
OK, if you’re so lost, let me try to simplify...
Posts by bjbird2:
1225: “It also has an overhead airbag that the accord does not even offer.”
1228: “No, I'm talking about a head airbag which is standard on the VW and not at all available on the accord.”
The only possible conclusion of these posts:
Side curtain airbags (called head airbags by Edmunds) are not available on any Accord.
The truth:
Side curtain airbags are standard equipment on the 2003 Accord EX V6. (Please check Edmunds’ specs on this model if you still don’t believe me.)
The conclusion:
The statements made by bjbird2 in his posts #1225 and #1228 regarding the Accord and “head airbags” are not correct, as this feature is in fact standard on a model of the 2003 Accord.
The bottom line:
It appears that you made these statements as a result of a misinterpretation of some information on Edmunds. Hey, we all make mistakes and I’m not looking to crucify you for it. However, I do expect you to own up to the mistake and retract the incorrect statements... after all, you’re pretty free with your uncomplimentary comments about the Accord, so when you make a mistake, that’s the right thing to do. Then we move on.
That’s it in a nutshell. Is that clear enough?
The statements made by bjbird2 in his posts #1225 and #1228 regarding the Accord and “head airbags” are not correct, as this feature is in fact standard on a model of the 2003 Accord
This is technically a correct statement as it's standard on the 2003 Accord EX V6 only.
All other models are not available with side including the EX 4-banger with with or without leather.
though to bjbird's credit...the Passat GL has them standard equipment, but for the price of the Accord EX with Leather (not available with side curtain air bags).
keep hammering. We still hear the chipping argument, and bj's Passat (built specially for bj by VW) also does not have turbo lag. Plus, sales for Passat increased double digit. The reason for that, bj, is that they very abysmal in the first place so they had to improve, and margin of improvement is higher when you start near zero. Did you now understand the difference between resudual and resale or are you still under the same impression?
"This is technically a correct statement as it's standard on the 2003 Accord EX V6 only.
All other models are not available with side including the EX 4-banger with with or without leather."
A correction to your clarification... that's "side curtain", not side... front side airbags are standard on all EX models, on the LX V6 and optional on the LX 4.
At any rate, I never stated anything different. I'm just trying to counter bjbird2's inaccurate posts.
I should have been more specific. Edmunds and Intellichoice both list "dual front impact airbags", "dual front side impact airbags", AND "overhead airbag", so I'm not confusing the overhead with the front, you're not clear on the options. There is only ONE model accord that has the latter, and it's not the one that I would compare my Passat to. I have the 4 cyl turbo, and the comparable accord does not offer this safety feature which is standard on all Passats.
Since you remember CD, MT RT etc, I decided not to remind you, even though your memory does act conveniently in your posts.
Anyway, true, I don't have rear discs in my Accord and surely would have loved to have them. You should though realize that I bought my 2003 Accord LX Auto for USD 18,465 +TTL, and at this price I get a 5speed Auto, keyless entry, ABS, 24/33 MPG, great seats, better handling than a Passat (that's correct, just take a ride in the new Accord which I am sure you haven't done), far better reliability etc etc. so I guess I am pretty ok with what I have. Definitely would be a good idea for Honda to have rear discs.
I did want to polish my car but we have a snowstorm coming up here so maybe next week. BTW, how's your supply of coils doing? Did you have a failure yet or are you in the process of waiting for one? And how about your lightbulbs, doing ok? Do you think VW can sort out the electrical problems in the new gen Passat even 3-4 years from when it is launched, or are they still going to have same problems right through the 7 year cycle?
Never had a coil fail, headlight burnout or any electrical problem in 7 years of vw ownership. I believe these problems are way overblown just like you probably think all the problems listed in the accord board are overblown.
We are not here to go up one side and down the other trying to "prove" that someone else is wrong, misspoke, created a contradiction or whatever.
There is absolutely no point in arguing over who said what when. So please stop.
We need to focus on each vehicle's attributes (or lack thereof) and forego this need that some of you have to beat each other over the head because opinions and viewpoints differ.
Leif, you have had a great experience with your car, so lets hope it keeps that way. Your's sure is an exception. Actually, one of the posters said that in Germany Passat is also called "Passiert". Care to translate that?
Happy Driving.
PS I was quoting the mags coz bj was repeatedly quoting the edmunds reviewearlier, and teh Automobile one later, totally ignoring the ones I was quoting.
WAGON Neither Camry or Accord is available as wagon. It is not true in regard of Camry. You can buy Highlander ;-) Guys, you are repeating yourselves. Any new ideas ?
I can't wait to hear how you guys jump all over this post. My daughter just called to tell me the Honda dealer informed her they can't find the source of the rattles in her 03' accord. She wants me to go to the dealer with her and take a ride with the sevice manager. Since she's had the car for 8 months now, I asked her how she liked the accord. Her unprovoked answer; "I should have bought the Passat." When I asked for more details, she said quote " It's (the Passat) better on the road, and it doesen't have the rattles my accord has". There you go, testimony from a relatively long term owner who has had lots of road time in both cars. I don't need any more reinforcement than that...Adios
Oh come BJ, give us a break. She is probably upset that her car has a rattle, I believe its safe to say that she commented mainly out of frustration rather then dissatisfaction.
Ask her a year down the road, 4 years down the road, or even when she decides to sell the car ( I bet she be a bit more excited when the residual value is worth more then your passat)
The comment about the ride, its all about tastes. I prefer a more driver oriented (feel the road ride). Maybe its a bit too pronounced for her tastes.
Also you point can be reveresed. If your daughter thought your car was so great, then why did she opt for the HONDA in the first place.
Overall you really showed us Accord owners.
As we speak I am trading in my 03 accord for a new passat.
I much rather have a rattle then bring my car in for a recall (**cough** **cough** IGNITION COIL)
One comment on all of this battling going on. As a Honda Accord owner and Honda employee, and an observer, there are a few things to take note of. Some Honda owners are very particular, our service manager saw it right away. They are expecting a perfect vehicle, and when something goes wrong, they get upset and frustrated. Every make of vehicle has their problems...Honda with transmissions, VW with electrical, etc. If you check out the Honda Accord board, there are many more discussions, and even more complaints, in my mind, then anything under the Passat. I have been checking the boards and posts, along with test driving both the Accord and Passat, and from talking with fellow coworkers. I have chosen a Passat. Why...because I want something different. I have heard from a sales manager that between driving an Accord and driving a Passat, the Accord drives like a lumber wagon. I tend to agree. My Accord is much better than my old CRX, but I loved the Passat ride. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I do respect that, and thank you for realizing that I don't want a vehicle that everyone else has.
The grass is always greener on the other side Jennifer. A simple analogy. If I was to work on Toyota's or say Honda's ( The brand is not important) my entire life, I wouldn't want to drive one.
A lumber wagon, do you just do oil changes or are you the secretary that sits behind the desk and processes the paper work?
I mean seriously, a lumber wagon. If the accord drives like a lumber wagon, it's equivalent to saying Saddam will be the ruler of Iraq for years to come.
I wouldn't mind something different, but if it meant not choosing the best of the bunch, then what's the point.
But hey, if you are a tech ( which I am guessing you are not), you'll be able to diagnose the VW's reliability issue with greater ease then say the regular joe.
Professionals, seem to disagree with your opinion, especially in regards to the driving characteristics of the accord. Please further dwell upon the idea on how the Passat drives better? Everything is a give and take, want a softer ride, you compromise handling. You may say the Passat is softer, or smoother, but take that puppy into a turn and enjoy experiencing the world of body roll.
As with all opinions, everyone has one, and you have just heard mine. Take it with a grain of salt.
I could polish off a list of how the accord's driving impressions have won over many if notmost driving critcs, but I rather hear about the bunker strike on Saddam, thank god for J Damn bombs( *Crossing my fingers that we finally got him*)
One final note: The Passat is a nice car, but its not an accord....
Thank goodness the Passat isn't an Accord because the Accord is the definition of boredom. I'm sure 400k people can't be wrong though.
Objectively, the Accord is great, arguably one of the best. Subjectively, its not even a blip on my radar. Its pretty good at getting from here to there in comfort, thats about it. But as far as getting from A to B comfortably, the Camry has them all beat. Can't beat it for plain jane vanilla family sedans. It would have my vote out of the 3.
Comments
This time around I went for the Accord (’03 EX V6 Cpe 5A), because it made more economic sense when comparing similar levels of equipment. Plus, I wasn’t too thrilled with the cosmetic changes they made to the Passat during the ’02 model year. Also, I’d never owned a Honda product and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about.
Obviously, a car with a manual transmission and a turbo charged engine will give a driver a completely different experience than a V6 automatic. However, I was not expecting it to be that different. I still miss some of the Passat’s driving dynamics.
Below is a list of a few things that I miss and don’t miss from the Passat.
From the Passat I miss:
-The higher feeling of control I had over the car
-The lack of rattles (the Accord has a couple already -– the Passat had none in four years)
-The ergonomics (I haven’t been able to find comfortable seat position in the Acccord)
-The engine response at freeway speeds
I am glad I no longer have to deal with:
-The higher road/wind noise
-The lack of power at the low end (turbo lag)
-Having to rev up the engine so high when going up steep hills
-Having to remove the plastic cover from underneath the car before every oil change (the quick lube place would charge an extra $20 otherwise!).
-Having to change light bulbs somewhat often
-The excessive brake dust on the front wheels
Overall, both the Passat and the Accord are great cars. I think they are targeted at slightly different types of drivers though.
The #2 reason is that it has such a nice mix of firmness and cushness and feels more sturdy than the Camry.
The #3 reason is the questions about Passat reliability. I was in a friend's fairly new Passat once and two things just fell off in the cabin. Also, I owned a Rabbit in high school and though it was cute and peppy, it broke down constantly and had very strange electrical problems. I'm sure that Volkswagen has progressed since then, but I'll never forget dealing with that.
I guess it's always comes down to personal opinion and past experience.
So if you're looking at the value that a car provides to the actual owner, rather than a value that a dealer uses in calculating a lease, the Accord is the car that's on top.
hmurphy, where did you see the crash tests on the 03' accord? I hope it did well, my daughter has one. I don't think it has been tested yet.
At any rate, I was curious so I checked VW's site and the online Passat brochure. They specify dual front and front side airbags and side curtain airbags on the Passat. No other airbags are mentioned, either as standard equipment or as an option. If they had some exclusive airbag that nobody else had, I'd expect that they'd mention it in their brochure. At any rate, that's exactly the airbag configuration that I have on my 2003 Accord EX V6.
Is there something I'm not finding there?
Every statement you make, we will call you on, and most of the time, you are incorrect. Stating that the Passat has a higher residual value, or that the accord lacks head airbags; or that the Passat is held in higher regards by the critics, the list goes on and on.
The only sources that you quote from are EDMUNDS and AUTOMOBILE. Yet you seems to turn your head to all other major publications. I.E. Autoweek, Motor Trend, Car and Driver and so on.
The major item that I find quite annoying is the fact you keep uttering the following idea ‘’ Passat owners can chip their cars out to obtain more horsepower then the accord’’
Are you serious? Any rational individual would never do this to his or her automobile. You fail to note that after chipping your car, you completely void the factory warranty (which is a death sentence considering VW’s reliability rating), increase the stress factor for not only the transmission but most notably the engine and other mechanical parts.
An accord owner could say the same. ‘’Well, I could put a supercharger and intercooler, then throw in some notorious and my car would have 1,450 horsepower’’
Who are you kidding???
One more thing,can you stop preaching about the new generation PASSAT. The car isn’t even here and you are claiming it will be the next show stopper.
And the Accord V6 does come with front, side and head/curtain airbags (same as Passat).
They're both very safe, so it's a toss up. I'm going for the Accord due to price (and a bad experience with a Volkswagen in my formative years). Neither car is a bad choice, safety wise.
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0220.htm
2003 VW PASSAT
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/98002.htm
Notice the Passat and Accord faired quite well, yet the accord scored "Good" for Restraints/
dummy kinematics, yet the Passat only scored Acceptable.
BEST AND WORST
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/photo_comp_m- idinexp.htm
Interesting safety result for the accord
Information taken from www.highwaysafety.org
"It also has an overhead airbag that the accord does not even offer."
Your post #1228:
"No, I'm talking about a head airbag which is standard on the VW and not at all available on the accord."
What is unclear about those two posts? They are without any doubt completely wrong. I asked about the ORIGINAL post, #1225, not your correction in #1234. You made the same completely erroneous claim TWO TIMES, and then finally did your research and corrected your two errors. And #1234 didn't even make reference to the fact that it was a correction, it just slid in the correct information that you finally researched. Why is that?
But that's outside of this discussion which I assume is to discuss the current generations, and the current generation Passat is definitely on the radar. Sales have increased by double digits.
Another non-sequitor. How does the success of the current generation Passat support the claim that it "always has been a show-stopper"? Completely untrue. The smoke screen about the global market notwithstanding.
All I know is that the comparison says the head airbag is "standard" on the Passat and "not available" on the accord. That's the bottom line after all your ranting..
No, you were... in case you forgot your post #1234...
"you are claiming it will be the next show stopper."
6) They always have been, and I expect them to carry on the tradition."
"Always" means since the Passat was available. Not just the current generation. Check your dictionary for the definition of "always". If you meant otherwise, perhaps you should word your posts more carefully. So you brought it up, not me. I'm just replying to the extreme inaccuracy of your statement.
"Why does it seem that every thread you post seems to exhibit blatant lies. Head curtain airbags, even a simple-minded person would understand that it is just a different name for SIDE CURTAIN airbags."
1) If you do a direct comparison of the cars in this price range on Edmunds, They list a de-powered airbag, a head air bag and a side airbag under safety features. For the Passat it says "standard" for the head airbag. The Camry says "optional". The accord EX 4dr w/leather, 2.4 cyl. 5M, which they must think is comparable to the Passat, says "not available". If you can read a chart you can understand that.
"Every statement you make, we will call you on, and most of the time, you are incorrect. Stating that the Passat has a higher residual value, or that the accord lacks head airbags; or that the Passat is held in higher regards by the critics, the list goes on and on."
2) I AM correct.
Passat does have the higher residual value for leasing. I posted the link from the insurance companies and the source for airbag comparisons, and I can give you countless articles that praise the Passat.
"The only sources that you quote from are EDMUNDS and AUTOMOBILE. Yet you seems to turn your head to all other major publications. I.E. Autoweek, Motor Trend, Car and Driver and so on."
3) And back to you, you only quote articles favorable to the accord. So what, that's why we're on this forum? Oh, and add Consumer Reports where they preferred the 6cyl. Passat over the accord.
"The major item that I find quite annoying is the fact you keep uttering the following idea ‘’ Passat owners can chip their cars out to obtain more horsepower then the accord’’
Are you serious? Any rational individual would never do this to his or her automobile. You fail to note that after chipping your car, you completely void the factory warranty (which is a death sentence considering VW’s reliability rating), increase the stress factor for not only the transmission but most notably the engine and other mechanical parts."
4) I know many rational people that opt for performance options, because the Passat has the option of being a driver's performance car for very little $$, unlike most of the competition. That's why performance oriented drivers like the Passat, it can be a family car or a performance car for very little relative cost. All those I know personally have never had an engine problem except for the coil issue which you guys love to gloat about, and which VW has taken care of. My daughter's 03' accord has some rattles and groans that her dealer has yet to find and correct.
"An accord owner could say the same. ‘’Well, I could put a supercharger and intercooler, then throw in some notorious and my car would have 1,450 horsepower’’
Who are you kidding???"
5) You would spend 10 times as much for your performance add ons, and you might get the same result as my inexpensive chip which can be swapped in 10 minutes.
"One more thing,can you stop preaching about the new generation PASSAT. The car isn’t even here and you are claiming it will be the next show stopper."
6) They always have been, and I expect them to carry on the tradition.
Happy driving!!
But isn't that a LOT different than what you said originally?
"It also has an overhead airbag that the accord does not even offer."
You claimed that the "head airbag" was not even offered in the Accord. It now seems by your own admission that this is not true. Or are you taking the position that your claim was NOT incorrect?
6)They always have been, and I expect them to carry on the tradition."
Oh, really? Prior to them making the "marketing stroke of genius" of sharing an Audi chassis with the Passat, it was hardly a blip on the radar.
And exactly how is "not at all available" and "not even offered" any different? To say that a "head airbag" is not at all available on the Accord is in no way shape or form any more accurate than your first statement. The car that sits in my garage right now is concrete proof of the inaccuracy of BOTH statements. Regardless of how you try to spin it.
Yes, everyone has made progress, but the current generation of Passat is the first success story for the line, after a long and ugly streak of no shows.
talon95, go back and read your own post #1235!
I said optional the first time and corrected it to say not available. A big difference.
If I'm not mistaken, the Hyundai Sonata uses a double wishbone suspension setup also. But unlike the Accord, it has sloppy handling.
BMW & Porsche utilize MacPhersons up front....while Subarus utilize MacPhersons all around...yet know one says a BMW or Porsche has sloppy handling...the 5-series consistently (in magazine testing) exhibits "superior" handling to the GS....And I guess the WRX is a poor handling car for its "rally-inspired" suspension....
cutting through the BS....it's really about suspension tuning.
You can take the Accord suspension and turn it into a sloppy handling car by softening the spring rates, the compression and rebound rates of the dampers, reducing the diameters of the sway bars...remove the sway bars, etc.
Honda typically tunes their suspension to be more on the sportier side. Toyota leans more towards comfort, The Passat...somewhere in between.
It's probably an affirmation to Passat drivers of the wisdom of their decision, and rightly so IMO, given that CR dispassionately tests cars to advise non-enthusiasts and the general public (one & the same ?) of good buying decisions.
That said, the Passat's price ($30.7k, CR's "representative price") seems to position it against the likes of the Acura TL, etc. This price disparity is a negative modifier I'd give to the CR test (could make a shopper say "I'll get the Passat GLX because it's better than the Accord," not giving weight to the $4k price difference).
Also, reliability was judged as "average" vs "above average" for the Accord and the 6.
With the appropriate budget, would I buy the Passat GLX ? I'd have to first compare it, not with the Accord/Camry/Altima/Mazda6/etc. but with next-tier models like the Acura TL, Infiniti G350, etc.
Throw in reliability, resale (not residual) value, total cost of ownership, etc., and it's probably not a Passat-outcome.
Posts by bjbird2:
1225:
“It also has an overhead airbag that the accord does not even offer.”
1228:
“No, I'm talking about a head airbag which is standard on the VW and not at all available on the accord.”
The only possible conclusion of these posts:
Side curtain airbags (called head airbags by Edmunds) are not available on any Accord.
The truth:
Side curtain airbags are standard equipment on the 2003 Accord EX V6. (Please check Edmunds’ specs on this model if you still don’t believe me.)
The conclusion:
The statements made by bjbird2 in his posts #1225 and #1228 regarding the Accord and “head airbags” are not correct, as this feature is in fact standard on a model of the 2003 Accord.
The bottom line:
It appears that you made these statements as a result of a misinterpretation of some information on Edmunds. Hey, we all make mistakes and I’m not looking to crucify you for it. However, I do expect you to own up to the mistake and retract the incorrect statements... after all, you’re pretty free with your uncomplimentary comments about the Accord, so when you make a mistake, that’s the right thing to do. Then we move on.
That’s it in a nutshell. Is that clear enough?
Boring appliances? Well, Car and Driver and Road and Track don't agree:
Road and Track:
Honda Accord, Mazda 6s and Nissan Altima outrank VW Passat in "Driving Excitement"
Car and Driver:
Mazda 6i and Subaru Legacy L outrank VW Passat in "fun to drive"; Honda Accord, Nissan Altima and Toyota Camry SE match it.
Conclusion... just another outdated myth that should be put out to pasture. Welcome to the 21st Century.
The statements made by bjbird2 in his posts #1225 and #1228 regarding the Accord and “head airbags” are not correct, as this feature is in fact standard on a model of the 2003 Accord
This is technically a correct statement as it's standard on the 2003 Accord EX V6 only.
All other models are not available with side including the EX 4-banger with with or without leather.
though to bjbird's credit...the Passat GL has them standard equipment, but for the price of the Accord EX with Leather (not available with side curtain air bags).
All other models are not available with side including the EX 4-banger with with or without leather."
A correction to your clarification... that's "side curtain", not side... front side airbags are standard on all EX models, on the LX V6 and optional on the LX 4.
At any rate, I never stated anything different. I'm just trying to counter bjbird2's inaccurate posts.
There is only ONE model accord that has the latter, and it's not the one that I would compare my Passat to. I have the 4 cyl turbo, and the comparable accord does not offer this safety feature which is standard on all Passats.
Do you think the accord will get those hightech rear discs on its highest volume model{Lx} for its next redesign?
Have you polished your plood today?
bjbird... http://www.hondacars.com
leif: The LX V6 has rear discs...though the LX 4-banger has rear drums (just like the Camry LE...4-banger has drums, V6 has discs)
Anyway, true, I don't have rear discs in my Accord and surely would have loved to have them. You should though realize that I bought my 2003 Accord LX Auto for USD 18,465 +TTL, and at this price I get a 5speed Auto, keyless entry, ABS, 24/33 MPG, great seats, better handling than a Passat (that's correct, just take a ride in the new Accord which I am sure you haven't done), far better reliability etc etc. so I guess I am pretty ok with what I have. Definitely would be a good idea for Honda to have rear discs.
I did want to polish my car but we have a snowstorm coming up here so maybe next week. BTW, how's your supply of coils doing? Did you have a failure yet or are you in the process of waiting for one? And how about your lightbulbs, doing ok? Do you think VW can sort out the electrical problems in the new gen Passat even 3-4 years from when it is launched, or are they still going to have same problems right through the 7 year cycle?
We are not here to go up one side and down the other trying to "prove" that someone else is wrong, misspoke, created a contradiction or whatever.
There is absolutely no point in arguing over who said what when. So please stop.
We need to focus on each vehicle's attributes (or lack thereof) and forego this need that some of you have to beat each other over the head because opinions and viewpoints differ.
Happy Driving.
PS I was quoting the mags coz bj was repeatedly quoting the edmunds reviewearlier, and teh Automobile one later, totally ignoring the ones I was quoting.
Neither Camry or Accord is available as wagon.
It is not true in regard of Camry. You can buy Highlander ;-)
Guys, you are repeating yourselves. Any new ideas ?
Krzys
If you want to bring relations into the resale value debate, how about that beautiful relative of the accord=Acura RL?
My daughter just called to tell me the Honda dealer informed her they can't find the source of the rattles in her 03' accord. She wants me to go to the dealer with her and take a ride with the sevice manager.
Since she's had the car for 8 months now, I asked her how she liked the accord.
Her unprovoked answer; "I should have bought the Passat." When I asked for more details, she said quote " It's (the Passat) better on the road, and it doesen't have the rattles my accord has".
There you go, testimony from a relatively long term owner who has had lots of road time in both cars.
I don't need any more reinforcement than that...Adios
Ask her a year down the road, 4 years down the road, or even when she decides to sell the car ( I bet she be a bit more excited when the residual value is worth more then your passat)
The comment about the ride, its all about tastes. I prefer a more driver oriented (feel the road ride). Maybe its a bit too pronounced for her tastes.
Also you point can be reveresed. If your daughter thought your car was so great, then why did she opt for the HONDA in the first place.
Overall you really showed us Accord owners.
As we speak I am trading in my 03 accord for a new passat.
I much rather have a rattle then bring my car in for a recall
(**cough** **cough** IGNITION COIL)
If you check out the Honda Accord board, there are many more discussions, and even more complaints, in my mind, then anything under the Passat. I have been checking the boards and posts, along with test driving both the Accord and Passat, and from talking with fellow coworkers. I have chosen a Passat. Why...because I want something different. I have heard from a sales manager that between driving an Accord and driving a Passat, the Accord drives like a lumber wagon. I tend to agree. My Accord is much better than my old CRX, but I loved the Passat ride. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I do respect that, and thank you for realizing that I don't want a vehicle that everyone else has.
A lumber wagon, do you just do oil changes or are you the secretary that sits behind the desk and processes the paper work?
I mean seriously, a lumber wagon. If the accord drives like a lumber wagon, it's equivalent to saying Saddam will be the ruler of Iraq for years to come.
I wouldn't mind something different, but if it meant not choosing the best of the bunch, then what's the point.
But hey, if you are a tech ( which I am guessing you are not), you'll be able to diagnose the VW's reliability issue with greater ease then say the regular joe.
Professionals, seem to disagree with your opinion, especially in regards to the driving characteristics of the accord. Please further dwell upon the idea on how the Passat drives better? Everything is a give and take, want a softer ride, you compromise handling. You may say the Passat is softer, or smoother, but take that puppy into a turn and enjoy experiencing the world of body roll.
As with all opinions, everyone has one, and you have just heard mine. Take it with a grain of salt.
I could polish off a list of how the accord's driving impressions have won over many if notmost driving critcs, but I rather hear about the bunker strike on Saddam, thank god for J Damn bombs( *Crossing my fingers that we finally got him*)
One final note: The Passat is a nice car, but its not an accord....
Objectively, the Accord is great, arguably one of the best. Subjectively, its not even a blip on my radar. Its pretty good at getting from here to there in comfort, thats about it. But as far as getting from A to B comfortably, the Camry has them all beat. Can't beat it for plain jane vanilla family sedans. It would have my vote out of the 3.