Audi S4 and S4 Cabriolet

markcincinnati

The current S4 +$8,000 for the new one with the V8? Or the current A4 3.0 +$8,000?

Generally, and this is probably too general, Audi would take a Maxed out A4, add some appearance and performance items (tires, wheels, spoilers, perhaps even brakes, etc.), a hotter engine and charge $4 or 5K for the hotter car -- this time you think the US market will go for $8 perhaps $10K more for the new V8 S4 -- I thought a new S4 would be in da neighborhood of $45K, and I talked with one of my US of A Audi guys who says the US market may not be ready for a $50K+ S4, especially since that makes the S4 perhaps too close in price to some other Audi's.

I would "gladly" consider an S4 with an MSRP of $45K, and if I added Sat nav and parktronic and a couple of other luxury options, I would accept $47K as a list price.

The pschology of an A4 body based car at $50K+ is hard, even for those of us most ardent Audi fans to get to.

Since we are dreaming, what is the opinion of this erudite board?

stealthbomber

Easy answer. They have the Autobahn, they can actually *use* the RS4 and other automotive exotica. In general, the Europeans can appreciate speed. In the US, you're lucky if you find a 70mph speed limit.

cdnpinhead

on why many fewer models are available in the U.S. This issue doesn't just exist with Audi, but also with BMW and others, based on what I've seen in Europe vs. North America.

Certifying a specific model through the EPA (and God knows what other civil-serpant directed bureaus) is a very expensive process. This also helps us understand why engine and transmission combinations are severely limited even with domestic manufacturers -- each requires a new ticket from Uncle.

As highly-regulated and socialized as Europe may be, this place appears to have gone them one further (I'd never say better).

carsrcool

The $50K+ pricing is my guess on what a high output V8 (along with the other related changes to the car) in the S4 would cost. As far as what the US market expects, I think that price is too high. I believe the numbers you used, i.e. 47K for a well equipped S4, are more reasonable. That is one reason I am somewhat sketical about the rumors of a V8 in the new S4.

As far as desirability of the V8, I would have a lot of questions. My current S4 has good balance but compared to the competition (BMW)...a little heavy, which is the price you pay for quattro. Put a big V8 in the car ....and then how would that affect the overall balance and weight of the car? What happens to fuel economy? Frankly, I would prefer to see a larger displacement V6 turbo'd to get the HP. Lighter, more economical, and easy to add HP via chipping if you are into that sort of thing.

But as far as the price goes, if the car has 340HP and is at 47K... I will be standing in line for one!

williamshim

I'm interested in next gen S4. It's on my short list of next car but if the price goes above 50K..... I'll probably go with M vehicle.... It's a bit hard to swallow 50K Audi on A4 body...

steher

Which ,for example, BMW-models aren't available in America compared to Europe? You have them all: 3-series(M3), 5-series(M5), 7-series, X5, Z3, Z8(?) and most of the engines except the lower-powered ones and diesels. There is just the 3-series compact you don't get over there. Ok, you often get them later, but it's clear that first the home-market is served.
Am I wrong?
Same with Audi: A4(S4), A6(S6), A8(S8), TT, allroad are available!
WE also have the A2 and A3(S3) which wouldn't have
much chances on the US-market.
So why complain?

carsrcool: S4 heavier than M3? The European Specs for the S4 are 1510 kilogramms vs. 1570 for the E46 M-coupe.

carsrcool

steher
US Spec weight for S4, 6sp is 1630 kilo or 3593 lbs with the tip coming in at 1680 kilo or over 3700lbs. The E46M3 came in over 100lb heavier than the E36M3 which goes with the point I was making. The E46 gained weight with added HP but virtually the same displacement of their inline 6, presumably a result of heavier drivetrain, suspension, brakes, etc. to support the add'l HP. I suspect that adding a V8 and add'l HP to a new S4 would make the car even heavier than the current model.

markcincinnati

Hermann, we do not have an S6 here in the US, other than the Avant. The 1995 S6 was the last S6 available (5 cyclinder). I had one and it was great!

The S8 had been on your side of the Atlantic for at least a couple of years before we got one, we never received an RS anything and the rumor is we will never get a manual transmission A6 body with any kind of V8 in it, period.

We will, if history repeats itself, get the new S4 a year after it is available on your side of the ocean.

None of this, really, is meant to be too much of a complaint, but we don't seem to get certain Audi's EVER, and some other Audi's late, and we do not get the full range of colors, options and interiors here in the US that are avail in Europe.

I was at the factory in your home town recently and saw silver metallic A4's and TT's with camel leather interiors. This is not available here in the US, even if you ask and are "willing to pay for it." For a time, you could order Pearl White even though it was dropped from Audi's marketing literature, now it is again available for $1,200 on most of the US Audi line.

Anyway, some of us are envious of the range of engines, colors, interiors and options available in Germany and Europe. Why for instance can't we have a 1.8T with leather and a navigation system? Beats me!

There are other examples of combinations and permutations that are available elsewhere, but just not here.

By the way, when do we get European delivery again?

cdnpinhead

We agree.

In particular, I rented an Audi A3 w/ the 1.9 litre turbodiesel last summer and was absolutely blown away. The thing was a rocket and felt glued to the road up to and well over 160 kph. In fact, that experience was what got me seriously interested in Audi and on several of the Audi boards. Rented an A4 the next time over, same engine, and that was excellent as well.

My point is that the large number of engine options (particularly the diesels) aren't available in North America. The fuel economy I got from the two 1.9's I rented was phenominal, even at the "spirited" speeds I was driving, and through the twisty steep roads (always over the passes, never through the tunnels) in Switzerland. The U.S. preaches a desire for better fuel economy, and with Europe developing these excellent (non-smelly, no noisier than a gas engine) power plants, I'm puzzled.

I also think there's a market over here for people who would like a BMW with smaller than a 2.5 litre engine, but I guess we'll never know, will we?

markcincinnati

The 2002 A4 I drove was a 2.5 liter turbo diesel -- WOW -- more torque than the V6, less horsepower, virtually no giveaway sounds or smells -- in fact the sounds were quite sweeet!

With the sport suspension and stick shift, this thing would be a "contend-ah" even here in North America, don't you think?

We may never know. Even the performance capabilities of the new W8 Passat (not the D1) have been somewhat squeezed out of it as it is not coming to this side of the Atlantic with a manual transmission.

steher

Was the A3 TDI the one with 110hp or 130hp? My son has got the 130hp one and it's awesome! It has 310 Newtonmeter of torque (for comparison: a 2002 A4 3.0 has 300 Nm) and a six-speed gearbox. He made 145mph on the autobahn with it(yes, it's a diesel) and fuel overall fuel consuption is around 5 or 6 litres per 100 kilometers. Costs around 24k with everything except leather and navi.

Markcincinnati: You've got the S6 over there or you'll get it the next weeks. Look at Edmunds First Drives.
I understand that you're dissappointed about Audi's limited range of colours, combinations etc., but if there would be enough demand, I'm sure Audi would offer them. Let's see it from the other side: In Germany you won't see many white Audis. White is no popular colour on Audis over here. Most of them are silver, dark blue or grey and black. So you have other likings over there. Perhaps also with interiour and so Audi has to offer the most wanted colours and combination otherwise it would became too expensive for them I assume. But I can't also understand why they do not offer 1.8T with leater and navi! I assume again, that Audi has seen, that the 'cheaper' A4s are often ordered without such luxury-features.

But I really understand you now!

BTW Is it the same with BMW? And do you ylready have the Audi Navigation-System PLUS (with screen/TV)?

cdnpinhead

I'm sure it was the 110 hp version -- had a 5-speed.

But it was still a lot of fun to drive; the 130 hp version must be really something.

markcincinnati

We WILL get an S6 Sedan (Saloon) in the US?

We do not have Nav plus -- and all 2002 brochures continue to show it without the Nav plus. Actually while I would probably buy the Nav Plus, I am VERY PLEASED with the regular NAV and can't wait until the map is on one DVD. Also the Nav system seems to take a while to boot up (but this is really minor).

Anyway, colors aside, the things that European auto makers do that confuse me continues -- adding the Nav or leather to a 1.8T and making the buyer pay the price, just like on a 3.0 wouldn't seem to cause US EPA regulation specifications to be challenged. I mean, once a 1.8T is US certified, why would our government care if it had leather or some other options.

And, having been through the factory several times, I also can't see what the big deal would be even if only 1 in a 100 build run of US bound 1.8T's had leather in them, instead of cloth or vinyl.

Oh well, these are not really major complaints, more like minor nits to pick!

And, are you SURE there will be a non-Avant S6 here in the US? And, will it have a 6spd as an option?!?

steher

I don't know if there'll be a non-avant in the US in the near future. Seems like there is really only the Avant available. Perhaps they don't offer it because of the little gap between the 4.2 and the S6 (only 40hp). On the S6 is no stick available - over here, too! It was available till last year but they don't offer it anymore.
I own one at the moment(avant). Ebony black with those black/blue leather-alcantara seats known from the S4. very good car - and very fast.

spridledog

As far as I've read, in various places, there will NOT be an S6 sedan in the U.S. any time soon, and for one main obvious reason: It would most likely just steal sales from the A6 4.2. As good as the 4.2 is, wouldn't YOU rather have an S6 sedan?! Yeah, me too. Audi, understandably, thinks selling both models here is not a great marketing idea, and, though I'd love to see the S6 sedan here, I'd have to agree with them.

markcincinnati

Well then, maybe Audi will bring their S concept to their normal lines -- making an A4 available with an S package (see audiworld story on this concept) perhaps calling it an AS4, AS6 etc.

I love my 4.2 (cept for the fact that I'd love to have a 6spd) but I would like to have it a bit sportier.

That new S4 is, at this moment, my next car. Wooo Wooo!

jdbtensai

i didn't follow that last post.
isn't the s4 the S version of the a4?
and the s6 the S version of the a6?
etc.

markcincinnati

No, Audi will have an "S" line -- which will be a lesser version of the all out "S" series --

Here is the release that really got my attention:

"Audi's ”S line” includes a series of customised sporty attributes supplied by the Audi subsidiary quattro GmbH:

 - Sports suspension with the body lowered by 20 mm

 - 18-inch ”9-spoke” cast alloy wheels with 225/40 ZR 18 tyres

 - Standard leather seats in black; colour-customised leather seats in red or silver available as an option

 - Aluminium gear knob

 - Xenon headlights with titanium-coloured headlight trims.

 The ”S line” emblem on the rear side panels between door and wheel arch tells experts that they are looking at a special kind of TT Coupé.

 The TT ”S line” is the first representative of the new S line concept. This name will also be used in the future to describe particularly sporty packages – together with individual visual refinements – for other Audi model series."

So there may be an "S" line A4 and an S4 and a standard A4 -- for example.

I have seen after market conversions that are dubbed AS4, AS6 etc -- in fact my dealer here in Cincinnati had at least one such A4 and A6 a year or so back -- real lookers, but not Official Audi factory options. The new S Line will apparently be official.

For more info: http://www.audiworld.com/news/index.html and click on August 24, 2001 story.

jdbtensai

you sure about that?
i've never heard that anywhere else.
not that that alone makes it untrue.

markcincinnati

The S line apparently -- click on the info pertaining to it -- is a way for Audi to provide what I would characterize as almost S class cars for less money than full blown S cars.

The first model brought out, true, is a TT -- but the text reads that Audi intends to make "S line" broadly available. Take an A4 for example and check off the S line box on an option sheet somewhere and perhaps the following would happen:

Sports suspension with the body lowered by 20 mm (performance and appearance)

- 18-inch ”9-spoke” cast alloy wheels with 225/40 ZR 18 tyres (ditto)

- Standard leather seats in black; colour-customised leather seats in red or silver available as an option (appearance)

- Aluminium gear knob (appearance)

- Xenon headlights with titanium-coloured headlight trims. (performance and appearance)

Perhaps Audi felt that they were missing sources of revenue -- after all, aftermarket upgrades are widely available and perhaps they wanted a piece of the action. Who knows, perhpas they will then start to offer things like an A4 S line 1.8T @225HP (the same version that is in the higher performance TT and the "true" S3, for example).

Anyway, several web sites have been offering rear deck spoilers, wheel and tire upgrades, brake upgrades, etc etc etc -- Audi may want their piece of the pie.

The link in my previous post appears, to me, to be legit.

jdbtensai

that link doesn't get me anywhere, other than the audiworld homesite i mean.
do you have a link directly to the article you mentioned?

markcincinnati

First click the link.

Then click the 2001 Archive, then click Jul - September link on the page that is displayed. Then, click on August 24, 2001 story.

Sorry for the incomplete instructions.

jdbtensai

i don't think they intend to have 3 lines, a, a/s, and s. it looks to me like they are coming out with an stt, to go along with the s3, s4, s6, and s8. i could be wrong, of course. but that is how it looks to me.
i'd heard on audiworld that they were going to come out with an s version of the tt. maybe that is it.
although the s-line emblem is something i haven't seen before.
we'll see.
just some side questions. do you have an audi? s4? do you participate on audiworld?

scirocco22

I remember reading that article when it came out in August but didn't really pay that much attention to it. Interesting... thanx for bringing it back to my attention, Mark.

Here's the direct link for anybody that might have had difficulty navigating to it: http://www.audiworld.com/news/01/082401/content.shtml

--'rocco

markcincinnati

The following makes me think there will be an "S line" option across the models, not just the TT -- I am often wrong, but never unsure, as my friend said of me:

"The TT ”S line” is the first representative of the new S line concept. This name will also be used in the future to describe particularly sporty packages – together with individual visual refinements – for other Audi model series."

From - http://www.audiworld.com/news/01/082401/content.shtml

jdbtensai

you think there will be an a, an s-line, and an S?
interesting. you'd think they'd call the s-line something else so as not to confuse people.
"i drive an a6."
"i drive an s-line a6."
"i drive an s6."
you certainly could be right. and having confidence is always a good thing. but i find that hard to believe.
but i'm willing to wait and see.
certainly not important enough to worry about.

markcincinnati

But how else could you interpret: " – for other Audi model series" in the release. Other Audi TT models? Nah, they would have said TT if it were going to be just for that car, don't you think?

Anyway, I'd love to see it -- but I have seen the nomenclature:

A6
AS6
S6
S6+
and
RS6 (which is coming, I have read)

(I saw these -- excluding the RS6 -- in Germany, most recently in December 2000).

jdbtensai

seems like a lot of work to make that many cars that are all slightly different than the next.
although i know in europe, or at least i've heard, they have an a4, an s4, and an rs4. so maybe they add an as4. maybe.

markcincinnati

In Europe, the number of combinations and permutations of specific models is indeed daunting -- I have seen A6's with 1.8T engines, A4's with 1.6, 1.8, diesel, turbo diesel, etc. A8's were available with a 2.8 V6, and in the factory, the V6 variations were on display.

As long as it is "economically" feasible for the company, I say "bring em on."

Again, I read these boards (especially the ones pertaining to the turbo Audis -- for somewhat obvious reasons, of course) and I see the lengths (and expense) people are going to "upgrade" their Audi's. From chips to cat back exhaust systems, wheels, tires, suspension components, stereo systems, superchargers on the V6's, and a whole host of ground effects. Several magazines (and webzines) have extensively upgraded Audi interiors -- new seats, trim pieces, etc etc.

My wife and I went to the first annual TT gathering in Sommerset PA this April and there were almost 100 TT's (from all over the US) that had gathered. A significant portion of them had been in some way customized. One man had installed a customized grill and tailights. The major upgrade was almost $20,000 worth of high performance and luxury goodies (and a new paint job).

I know the factory or the dealers (selling factory authorized accessories, etc) would not get all of the revenue from such devoted owners, but I still maintain that if you could "check a box" and have the upgrades you desire come from "der factory" -- well, Audi would get some of this revenue.

Mass customization is getting more prevalent, easier to accomplish and more profitable. Audi is, last time I looked, into making a profit. What a cool way to do it, in my opinion, by providing more and more ways for people to individualize their Audi's.

Capitalism.

carsrcool

It would be nice to see Audi do something that BMW did with Dinan...endorse an appearance and performance upgrade option that could be offered through the dealers. A certain level of confidence comes with that regarding warranty treatment for those that want these type of enhancements.

ilxman

I own a 2001 Nogaro/Alcantara 6-spd with almost 11,000 miles logged. I have said repeatedly that the E46 M3 is the car I now lust after, since it is so much improved over the E36 M3. However, even though I am single guy with no family commitments, I am starting to salivate less over the new M3 as the many virtues of the S4 have become even clearer with time.

I recently decided to sell my audio/video system to get ready for a move. I had to ship many different components and, thus, drive to the FedEx/UPS locations. The cavernous amount of space (with or without the rear seats down) is truly impressive. For any audiophiles out there, I shipped a 6-ft long boxed pair of Magnepan 1.6's, plus another couple of pieces. I was harried and hurried so the comfort, quietness, and pleasant interior were also especially welcomed. But after shipping all that stuff and ending a long day, I got the urge to do a quick little piece of hard drivin'--except the pavement was wet from (possibly freezing) rain. No problem.

This car is truly a superlative example of 'balance'. It's comfortable, has high utility and practicality, is nice to just look at and sit in, yet it can kick some serious booty whenever you want. The high speed/high rpm performance of this sweet engine just makes me smile. Professional reviewers have faulted the lack of a loud, manly roar when you really rev it. I think they got it exactly right--refinement with a capital R!

The achilles' heel of this car, however, is easily the stick. It's just way too balky. I don't know what Audi was thinking here. I read a review of the new A4 and, once again, the reviewer complained about the balky stick. AUDI, WAKE UP! Please hire someone from Porsche, Honda, etc. to design a SMOOTH manual trans. Or better yet, copy BMW's upcoming SMG II manumatic. Also, the city gas mileage just plain sucks--but then I didn't buy the car for gas efficiency!

As I've said, I have no regrets choosing this car over the E36 M3. But once you've had a taste of serious power and performance, you always want more. The E46 M3 has set the bar (just as the M5 and coming new 7-series have set their respective bars). Audi needs to rise to the challenge. I now lust over the M3 with the new generation SMG II Formula 1-style no-clutch shifting paddles (coming this spring)--Car and Driver did a piece on it saying that one will finally be worthy of foregoing the traditional stick shift because it's BETTER than a stick. OK...Audi, will you step up to the plate with the new S4 and meet the M3 challenge? I mean with a S4 super-COUPE (as well as sedan) that will finally make true driving enthusiats drool over Audi for a change? Or will you continue this ridiculous love affair with station wagons as your statement products? I noted Edmunds called your S8 merely compotent versus the competition over at BMW and Mercedes. Is that what you really want? Isn't that what the Volkswagen brand is supposed to be--compotent? Come on Audi, stop pulling your punches! Let's see you truly and significantly raise the ante on an already outstanding effort!

ilxman

If the pictures shown in the link on post #693 are what Audi has in mind on styling on the new S4, then I think I'm destined to switch to BMW! The new A4's are just baby A6's and look just plain bland. My '01 S4 is the last iteration of a venerable design, but it's time to get more bold Audi! Yes, I want 18' performance rubber on a new S4, but adding big wheels and a piece of plastic (spoiler) on a tired baby A6 is not gonna do it! By the way, PLEASE give us a coupe version as well! While you're at it, give us:

18' wheels
full navigaion tv screen
steering wheel controls for stereo, etc.
something like BMW's SMG II formula 1 shift paddles (your tiptronic basically stinks!)
a SMOOTH stick shift trans option
a SPORT/COMFORT suspension button to give us a choice

spridledog

We finally had our first significant snowfall this morning (isn't this global warming thing great?!), and I got a chance to test my new 17" Dunlop Winter Sport M2's. I was torn between getting 16"ers, which supposedly are better in snow but don't look nearly as cool, or spending the extra cash on 17"ers. Well, I don't know how the 16"ers are, but all I can say is, my set-up is awesome in the snow! Between the Dunlops, the Quattro, and the manual tranny, the traction is excellent. And, I'm really glad I sprung for the 17"ers, 'cause they look great (I got the AT Italia S5 wheels, which look like a 5-spoke version of the stock Avus rims). Also, the Dunlops ride and handle great on dry pavement. They are quiet, and I really don't even notice much of a loss in handling/grip. Happy New Year everyone, and be safe....

crzycarguy16

There's been a lot of talk about which is better, the S4 and the A6 2.7T, but I've been a fan of the S for about three years now, and who wants to bother with the gargantuan wheelbase and sloppy design of the A6? People like the S4 because it's not audacious or obnoxious, it's a car that people drive because they love the power and control of a manual, all-wheel drive, and a sporty chassis/suspension do for an experienced driver. Clearly the true "sport sedan" is the S4.

barresa62

I have them in the 16"size on my stock WRX wagon wheels. I haven't had the chance to test them in snow yet but we've had plenty of rain here in Seattle. The tires have been great and handle better in dry as well better than my stock Bridgestone RE92s all-seasons. The price for the 205/55x16 was $102 a piece at Tirerack. I'm glad to hear that the 17"M2s handle well too.

Stephen

silver_bullet

... but I'd opt for a real manual transmission any day. A moneyed friend just took delivery of his E46 M3, and he opted for the SMGII. He let me drive it -- it is a fun gizmo, but it puts too much distance between the driver and the machine, IMO. I suppose if you have to deal with gridlock traffic everyday, the auto mode on the SMGII would be helpful, but why use an M3 for bumper to bumper commuting? Get a used econocar and save the M3 for weekends. BTW -- with 750 miles on the odo, his car was already rattling like mad. Bumpy Houston streets and the M3's suspension don't mix

fpereira

Regarding the new S4, one thing I noticed in that blurb from Zoom magazine that 'rocco posted a while ago, was that the S4 would have a 6-speed Getrag gearbox.

Thanks Steher for your messages here! It's great to hear from Germany in these forums.

ilxman

The article I read about the M3 SMG II(I?) was a review of a new version that will not be released until the spring of 2002 (here in the USA that is). That's the one that promises to give true Formula 1 performance and thereby worthy of banishing the stick shift. My point is that Audi does such a poor job on their stick they should just dupe this upcoming SMG system.

nyccarguy

Did anybody catch the spy photos of the '03 S4 in Automobile this month? It looks pretty sweet with the lower body same color as the car trim, lip spoiler, and 18" (I assume) Avus Rims. They say it will have a 340 hp 4.2L V-8. I hope they mate it to a 6 speed manual! There's going to be a sedan, avant, & coupe...not too shabby.

Now if I could get my hands on an '02 leftover in November/December I'd be perfectly happy with 250hp, a 6 speed, & Black Leather Interior.

hunter001

The SMGII is a true manual and not a gizmo. It is just that the driver does not have to use his left leg in working the clutch. In some modes, it is way faster than any manual. There is a detailed explanation of it, in the Jan 2002 issue of Road and Track.

Later...AH

silver_bullet

Yes, I'm well acquainted with SMGII (I've been a BMW CCA member since 1986), and yes ilxman, people ARE taking delivery of new E46 M3s with the "new" SMGII tranny like my friend's car. It has the acceleration assistant feature (hold on!!), and I recognize that it is a full manual. Having said this, I still have the opinion that it is a "gizmo", however sophisticated, and that I'd prefer a full manual - your opinion is your opinion. Drive one for a few hours like I did and get back to me with your thoughts...

ilxman

I was actually waiting for the the SMGII's to arrive. While I have a 6-spd S4 I am soon to have a 'Missus', so the next car cannot be a manual in my case. It certainly sounds like the new SMG will fit the bill, in terms of full automatic driving for the wife and high-performance shifting for me.

silver_bullet

Put her in an E46 M3 with SMGII, and she'll be banging off up and downshifts like Schumacher in no time ;-)

ilxman

I've got a little over 12k miles in the my 1-year-old 6spd S4. I've noticed some low-level squeaks that are quite annoying at this price level (though not at all loud in absolute terms). They emanate from the dash, vaguely off to the right. Also, I have to take the car in because of some strange creaking noise coming from the steering wheel whenever I turn it--except sometimes it's there and sometimes it disappears. Anyone else having any similar issues?

spridledog

I've got about 9,000 miles on my 2001 6-speed, and I also have a little rattle that seems to come from the dash, slightly to the right of center, near the base of the windshield. It's not very loud, and it comes and goes, sometimes even depending on the weather. When it's real cold, it's worse. About half the time, I don't hear it at all, so it hasn't bothered me enough to take any action. Yesterday, I noticed that it seems like my driver's door is sagging a bit. In other words, if you close the door, but stop just before it latches, you can see that the titanium trim on the door is slightly lower than the corresponding trim on the rear door. Also, you can feel the door hitting the latch - like the door and the latch don't line up properly. From the inside, when you open the door, you can see it drop down slightly after it is unlatched. This is not cool. Anyone else have THIS problem?! I hope this can be solved by a relatively simple adjustment. Besides the above, I've had ZERO problems, and I simply LOVE this car!

mgreene1

A broken retaining clip to the defroster vent can cause a slight rattle in the dash. This happened with my former S4 but it took a while to pinpoint the problem. Just press down on the vent and see if the rattle goes away.

s4fun

I'm ready to plunk down the bucks for a new S4. I am still undecided about Audi's "unique" NAV system. Can anyone please provide their opinions about this system. Do you owners consider it easy to use and a useful investment or would you suggest an aftermarket system instead? Thanks.

jdbtensai

www.audiworld.com

and if you want the current s4 you'd better get looking soon.
i have yet to see the audi nav system on an s4 in america. not that there aren't some. but i haven't seen one.

nyccarguy

Stop production on the '02 S4s? I think I read that on a post somewhere around here.

jdbtensai

many months ago. they stopped in the middle of last year.
there are a few around. but not many.