I'm in the market for a new car and have been comparing the A4, S4 and Subaru WRX. I'm aware of the explicit differences with the three: S4 has much higher performance than the A4; the WRX is a little "tinnier" and has less amenities than the Audis; the cost factors; etc. The one thing I'm not sure about is the differences under the skins of the A4 and S4. Specifically:
- Chassis: Is the chassis of the 2002 A4 much different than that of the newest S4? Did they increase torsional regidity? - Suspension: I believe the 2002 A4 adopted the S4's suspension for the most part. Need confirmation.
I guess I'm leaning toward the S4 for performance reasons, but I've always been a "state of the art" kind of guy, which is where the appeal of the 2002 A4 lies. If the differences are minor enough, I can overlook the S4's older styling (which I still find attractive anyway), take the performance and be happy with my decision. Basically, I'm looking for differences that would justify A4 vs S4 and vice versa.
but i have an s4 and absolutely LOVE it. i think the best bet to find answers to your audi questions is to go to www.audiworld.com the s4 post here is pretty dead. or you could go to the a4 or a6 post and pose this question. my guess is that markcincinnati will be able to answer it. but expect a LONG answer (that's a good thing by the way)
I believe the chassis is the same between the A4 and S4. All S4 upgrades are pretty much performance "bolt-on's". Don't think the new A4 uses the S4's suspension, sounds like it's more it's own design. Latest Road and Track article said the new A4 was slightly more skewed towards luxury than the old A4 which was slightly more skewed towards sport - and I think they were testing the sport package, you should read it.
To avoid cannibalization, the new A4 will never outperform an old S4 while a remaining S4 goes unsold. My guess is that after the last S4 goes they will eventually migrate the 2.7T to the new A4 and a new S4 will come out with the rumored V-8.
Friend of mine coming from a 1.8T A4 (old model) drove my S4 and was very impressed with the performance differences (power, brakes, handling). Was it worth the price difference? Only your wallet and rear can decide - test both. Like jdbtensai, I love this car.
I'm the owner of a new 2001 S4. Bought it in late October. Last week, while waiting at an interstate off ramp, another car rear ends mine. It was a low speed impact. The damage to my S4 is minor, but the fact that it is still new (<5K), makes it seem major to me. The bumper is scratched and a there is a gouge or two. It almost seems to me that the bumper extends further into the rear wheelwell than it did before. It may have moved some from the impact. Because it was late in the week, I have not heard back from the other driver's insurance company yet. The bumper is a plastic (fiberglass) type material. In cases like this, where it is not cracked, is the bumper just repaired or totally replaced. My preference would be a new OEM bumper and that is what I plan to demand, but knowing that insurance companies are in for the money I am expecting a fight. Anyone have any tips for me? My local dealer recommended a nearby dealership that does body work.... claims that they refer all their business to them and that they do a good job.... think it is wise to trust the dealer? Thanks
Just remember that you have the right to take it wherever you want, and to demand perfection in the repair - don't settle for less. I would ask around and find out where people take their nice European cars in your area. Or if you have a local Audi club you could ask some of the members which shops they would recommend.
Since it was a low impact, there wouldn't be any damage to the frame. Therefore, what is more than likely is that they will use body filler to patch it up and re-paint the damaged area. Similar situation to our ML and it was estimated for ~$250. You know they ain't going to give you a new bumper (or skin) for that price. Deep down you know it's not the same car anymore.
My A4 got rear-ended 4 days into its life with me. They repaired and re-painted the bumper. It looks 100% perfect and I still feel it's the exact same car.
It cost around $350, I think. That included matching the metallic paint.
FYI New car shoppers of the 2002 S4. Better snap yours up quick. I did a search on Autotrader and it surprised me with many new 2002 S4's out there. There is a dealer in NJ called Bellavia Audi and they had about 8 2002 S4's in stock. A few were manuals for those that like to shift. They also had many A6 2.7T's and a few in manual as well. So, if you visit your local Audi dealer and want an S4 now let them know about this dealer and see if they would transfer the vehicle for you, otherwise a road trip to NJ might be in order. Good luck. Brian
As I mentioned a few months ago, my bumper was damaged in a low speed rear end impact. The original adjuster wanted to do a bumper "repair" by melting the plastic , sanding, and then repainting. Since the car had < 5K on it, read NEW, I felt that I should have a new OEM bumper. When I washed the car, I noticed that the lower end of the bumper was wavey. I contested the original adjuster's repair with the insurance (other driver's) company. I met with their local adjuster who agreed that the wavey bumper could probably not be fixed 100% and since it was new car, he authorized a new OEM bumper. I was very pleased about that.
The car has been repaired and I daresay that anyone could even tell that the bumper had been replaced. Although I would have preferred not going through this experience, I think that I have learned from it. And although emotions are intertwined with the auto ownership experience, especially a new and expensive car, it is after all just a car and will be replaced some day. There are a lot of other things in life more important than a car.
It looks like they'll shoehorn the 4.2 from the A6 (or S6?) into the new S4 to compete with the M3. There's also talk of an A4 2.7T variant for those who need a more reasonable price.
Among other things one of the factors for Edmunds.com's True Market Value (TMV) is raw sales data. Now I have been researching the S4 now for about the past 6 months and have not once seen edmunds TMV for the S4 come close to what private party sellers are asking (I realize asking price and actual sold price may vary but how big of a difference can that be with the S4?).
For example: I found this one private party (autotrader.com) asking for $38995 for a Fully loaded (Spt & Pre Package) Black '01, 22K miles, aluminum mirror trim, without NAV. Also I believe the car is in the San Francisco Bay area.
Using the same criteria (except for ALUMINUM MIRROR TRIM) I did a customized aprasial on edmunds and got a TMV of $33183 (private party price). That's a difference of $5812! To me that is a significant amount of money (and I know the aluminum mirrors dont cost that much more). Now which is "correct"? which price should I really be expecting to pay?? Thanks again everyone!
you might want to post this question on the "Any Questions For A Car Dealer" thread here on edmunds. There is a guy by the name of brentwoodvolvo who deals exclusively with buying and selling used (sorry Bill, pre-owned) luxury cars. He'll tell you straight up.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I've test driven a 2001 Audi S4 with 12,000 miles on it. I asked the agent to get the oil changed and he called to let me know they discovered an oil leak and have placed an overnight order for "o rings" and that the car will be ready tomorrow afternoon after they go through the work to replace. it's covered by the bumper to bumper warranty- 3 years left. has anyone had this problem with this version of car? can anyone tell me what someone could do to the car in 12,000 to cause this? i need to decide what i'm going to do on this car. speedokiddo
I am thinking of purchasing a pre-owned Audi S4. The off-lease car is Audi certified and has 38k miles on it.
Any owners have any advice to give? I would like to know what I should expect to pay for maintenance costs and the average fuel economy I should expect. I've never owned an AWD or turbo charged car before. Will it be considerably more expensive for maintenance? How long do turbos last?
I'm thinking of buying one as well, when the new model comes out. I'd love to hear what people think about the old body style or if they have any insights about the new one . . .
If both end up having the same performance numbers, even though the new S4 has the V8, which is the better car? I would think that the old S4 would be much easier and cheaper to fix and maintain due to the extra amount of space in the engine bay that the twin turbo has over the V8.
For the first 50,000 miles at least, the maintenance cost should be the same: $0 unless you want to add interim oil changes. Beyond that, I would think the non-turbo V8 would be less costly, even though if well maintained the 2.7T engine SHOULD last well past 100,000 miles. I think it's more a case of "luck of the draw" with all Audi's - some are very reliable and others are prone to all sorts of problems. This seems to be true within each model line.
I have a 2002 S4, You will be looking at a high mileage/modded S4 for that price. These cars are relatively reliable for how much technology is packed inside. Look for a 2001 with a build date after October 2000. They replaced the turbo's oil lines and a hose with upgraded stuff for 2001 and 2002 models after that date.
There were 2 new S4-s displayed at the Atlanta auto show (runs through this Sunday) but were locked and had no window stickers with pricing. I was told by the booth people that the pricing would be officially announced at the NY auto show - next month. Since the LA show was in January, I don't expect you'll see them until dealers start receiving inventory . . . - Ray Considering the new S4 V8 seriously . . .
Since you already own an Audi S4, would you please share your opinion about it and your experience with it: power, comfort of ride, reliability, fuel economy (especially these days!), Audi customer service, any problems, etc.
I loved that car. I had a 2002 S4 that was Silver/Silver and was loaded except the Nav and Phone. Audi is re-purchasing it from me because of a dealer issue. I bring it back this Thursday. I think things would be different if I would have had a different dealer addressing my problems at first.
The car is beautiful inside and out. It is safe and fast. a great car to drive daily, on a trip or to have some fun in. It was a big time sleeper car. Fuel economy was all about how you drove it, usually between 22-25 mpg for me. The quality of the product is awesome, and I think reliabilty of any super complex car is going to be different than a Honda, so I judge that differently. Remember these cars have every technology available built into them.
Want to share something with people who can appreciate it: My '00 S4 is out of warranty (with about 30K miles) and I've installed the APR stage I chip. I hadn't clocked acceleration times with the stock engine so I'd been frustrated not being able to be 100% certain that my seat-of-the-pants perception of increased speed was accurate. But just this month Car and Driver tested both the new 340 hp S4 and the RS6, along with the M3 and M5 and a couple of Mercedes. Being no racer, I can't compare 0-60 speeds with the C&D drivers. But I can accelerate from 50 to 70 in top gear with the best of them and compared my chipped car's time with C&D's stats for these other cars.
I've run about half a dozen checks at 50-70, all in the 5.5 to 5.9 second time span. Compare that to the the new Audis and BMW M-cars, each of which took, as I recall, between 6.7 and 7.2 seconds from 50 to 70 in top gear. Hard to believe, so I called APR and asked for an explanation.... Was told that the low to mid-range were the sweet spots for the chip, and by implication, that at much higher speeds the other cars would gain the advantage. 'Nuff for me to keep happy in my stealthmobile.
Yesterday I saw a new '04 S4 on Long Island. It was perfectly black and I noticed the S4 badge on the rear. The roar of the V8 was nice too:) What a beautiful car. way to go Audi. Now I just have to come up with the cash to obtain one of these beautiful machines.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I am buying a 2000 Audi S4 Auto with 28K miles. The used car dealer doesnt have any service records for it but says he'll sell me a warranty to cover major items for 2/3/4 yrs. Does anyone recommend buying 3 party warranties and whats the average cost I shoudl p[ay? Also, are there any major service issues I should be aware of? Common things that go wrong? Any decent web sites I should be looking at besides here? Thanks!!
Certified Pre Owned (which will warrant the expensive bits to 100K miles).
Otherwise, if you think you can afford this car without such protection, you would be better and cheaper off with a 2004 S4.
These cars, out of warranty, are for the wealthy, the very wealthy.
And, I love Audis and have owned almost 30 of them.
The chances of something happening to them that will bankrupt you are not high, but IF you are so unfortunate, you will come to appreciate my phrase, "these cars are breathtakingly expensive to repair."
Oh, BTW, this is not simply a condition of being an Audi -- this certainly applies to other fine European marquis too.
I bought an 04 S4, yeah, its a dream to drive, fast, sweeeet purr of the V8,etc but its been in the shop twice.. first problem no biggie(parts not here yet, so not fixed but driveable) and the second time for a "plastic ball bearing" in the transmission which requires complete tranny replacement. Another customer in dealer-same deal. these are 6spds. Tough to handle a likely 3+ wks wait in a brand new(900mi)$51K car. anybody else in this situation??
I have been thinking about the 2004 S4, but have heard there have been engine problems. Has anyone else heard this or is it just an idle (or at least isolated) rumor?
Have any B6 S4 owners found the suspension tuning a tad on the stiff side? I test drove an S4 right after a Mercedes C32, and, quite frankly, found the Audi's ride slightly punishing. Just my $.02. This will be my everyday ride, and I often drive in and around Baltimore City, pothole heaven...
Stolen Xenon Headlights - believe this is an issue with all cars with Xenon Headlights. I know the TLs were notorius for having them stolen. Have not heard of Audis being a prime target though.
S4 - issues, do not know anything, except just recently have seen a new S4 with the muffler system bouncing around. Just needs a weld or solder to fix, but suspect this is not the only issue.
I am not sure about a coupe but they already have a Cabriolet version based off the new A4 Cabriolet. I am not sure if you want open air driving but that was all I have seen or heard about the new S4. And an Avant will be coming out as well. If not already at dealers as we speak. Brian
Long time since I have posted but I want to say hello to all the usual suspects. I'll cut to the chase. My A4 1.8T is gone (long story) but now I am planning on a slight upgrade. The car I found is an '01 S4 with 22k miles on it for $24k. I think they may drop the price to $23k. It has a rebuilt title. Was side swiped on driver side and all parts replaced with factory Audi metal. No structural damage, more cosmetic than anything. Not certified or being sold by an Audi dealer. Questions are: Would the factory warranty still be valid? Am I able to get free maintenance? Can I purchase an extended warranty from Audi when the factory warranty expires? Or should I just walk away and get something certified at a dealership and pay a little more? Thanks for your help. Drive safe. Brian
Thanks. I've driven the Cabriolet. Very nice car, but a bit heavier than the sedan and didn't feel as "stiff." Also, living in NY, I won't get as much use out of the convertible, so I figure I could save about $8K + if they made a coupe. I currently debating between the S4 and the 330Xi
Yes, you are correct. The new S4 Cab weighs about 4012 lbs. I am surprised it does not feel as stiff as a hard top with all that weight!?!? I was never a convertible guy myself from a theft standpoint and because I used to live in Chicago it seemed impractical with our winters. That would be a tough call on the 330xi or S4. The old S4 was very tunable because of the turbo charging, the new engine locks you in as does the BMW. You'll pay a premium for both cars it seems especially as you add options on the BMW. The S4 has more trunk space and interior room in my opinion and the AWD system from Audi is probably better but it boils down to personal preference and how much $$ you want to spend. I would test drive both as much as possible for as long as you can. I think Audi offers the 24 hour test drive as well. Good luck in your search. Brian
Did you check the car on Carfax or the like? I am a little weary of a car that was in an accident that has a rebuilt title.
Will the seller guarentee it? Can you get the car checked by a trusted mechanic?
I would also have the car thoroughly checked over before making the purchase.
The '01 S4 is a great car, and a ton of fun to drive. Repair costs are high though (especially with the engine). Check other sources for any quality issues with that model (aka. JD Powers, Consumer Reports and/or other sources).
Finally, how mechanically inclined are your with cars? If very, and you think the car is in great shape, and can handle expensive repairs if they happen later on, then go for it.
Drove the same cars you are considering. They aren't even close. Both are nice. The S4, however, is a screamer from the performance aspect, much much moreso thatn the 330xi.
Not that this is any reason to get one over the other, unless absolute performance is your desire. The 330xi was more lux oriented simply due to its lack of sports suspension -- but it had no low end grunt, like the S4 and the sweeeeeeet sound of the V8 in the S4 certainly has merit, too.
Comments
I'm in the market for a new car and have been comparing the A4, S4 and Subaru WRX. I'm aware of the explicit differences with the three: S4 has much higher performance than the A4; the WRX is a little "tinnier" and has less amenities than the Audis; the cost factors; etc. The one thing I'm not sure about is the differences under the skins of the A4 and S4. Specifically:
- Chassis: Is the chassis of the 2002 A4 much different than that of the newest S4? Did they increase torsional regidity?
- Suspension: I believe the 2002 A4 adopted the S4's suspension for the most part. Need confirmation.
I guess I'm leaning toward the S4 for performance reasons, but I've always been a "state of the art" kind of guy, which is where the appeal of the 2002 A4 lies. If the differences are minor enough, I can overlook the S4's older styling (which I still find attractive anyway), take the performance and be happy with my decision. Basically, I'm looking for differences that would justify A4 vs S4 and vice versa.
Thanks much!
i think the best bet to find answers to your audi questions is to go to www.audiworld.com
the s4 post here is pretty dead.
or you could go to the a4 or a6 post and pose this question. my guess is that markcincinnati will be able to answer it.
but expect a LONG answer
To avoid cannibalization, the new A4 will never outperform an old S4 while a remaining S4 goes unsold. My guess is that after the last S4 goes they will eventually migrate the 2.7T to the new A4 and a new S4 will come out with the rumored V-8.
Friend of mine coming from a 1.8T A4 (old model) drove my S4 and was very impressed with the performance differences (power, brakes, handling). Was it worth the price difference? Only your wallet and rear can decide - test both. Like jdbtensai, I love this car.
Because it was late in the week, I have not heard back from the other driver's insurance company yet. The bumper is a plastic (fiberglass) type material. In cases like this, where it is not cracked, is the bumper just repaired or totally replaced. My preference would be a new OEM bumper and that is what I plan to demand, but knowing that insurance companies are in for the money I am expecting a fight. Anyone have any tips for me? My local dealer recommended a nearby dealership that does body work.... claims that they refer all their business to them and that they do a good job.... think it is wise to trust the dealer?
Thanks
It cost around $350, I think. That included matching the metallic paint.
Brian
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The car has been repaired and I daresay that anyone could even tell that the bumper had been replaced. Although I would have preferred not going through this experience, I think that I have learned from it. And although emotions are intertwined with the auto ownership experience, especially a new and expensive car, it is after all just a car and will be replaced some day. There are a lot of other things in life more important than a car.
Happy motoring.
(or S6?) into the new S4 to compete with the M3. There's also talk of an A4 2.7T variant for those who need a more reasonable price.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Have you seen the Letter from the Town Hall Manager on the Town Hall Welcome page? If not, you might want to follow that link to have a look.
And hang on to your seats. Change is never easy - for any of us - but resolving the Search problems we've had will be worth the pain.
Pat
Sedans Host
For example:
I found this one private party (autotrader.com) asking for $38995 for a Fully loaded (Spt & Pre Package) Black '01, 22K miles, aluminum mirror trim, without NAV. Also I believe the car is in the San Francisco Bay area.
Using the same criteria (except for ALUMINUM MIRROR TRIM) I did a customized aprasial on edmunds and got a TMV of $33183 (private party price). That's a difference of $5812! To me that is a significant amount of money (and I know the aluminum mirrors dont cost that much more).
Now which is "correct"? which price should I really be expecting to pay??
Thanks again everyone!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
has anyone had this problem with this version of car?
can anyone tell me what someone could do to the car in 12,000 to cause this?
i need to decide what i'm going to do on this car.
speedokiddo
Any owners have any advice to give? I would like to know what I should expect to pay for maintenance costs and the average fuel economy I should expect. I've never owned an AWD or turbo charged car before. Will it be considerably more expensive for maintenance? How long do turbos last?
Thanks in advance for any advice!
JW
I am in the market for a used s4 ($25K range). Anyone had any problems with a 2000 or 2001 S4?
- Ray
Considering the new S4 V8 seriously . . .
JW
Thanks!
Tony
The car is beautiful inside and out. It is safe and fast. a great car to drive daily, on a trip or to have some fun in. It was a big time sleeper car. Fuel economy was all about how you drove it, usually between 22-25 mpg for me. The quality of the product is awesome, and I think reliabilty of any super complex car is going to be different than a Honda, so I judge that differently. Remember these cars have every technology available built into them.
Insurance was high though.
I've run about half a dozen checks at 50-70, all in the 5.5 to 5.9 second time span. Compare that to the the new Audis and BMW M-cars, each of which took, as I recall, between 6.7 and 7.2 seconds from 50 to 70 in top gear. Hard to believe, so I called APR and asked for an explanation.... Was told that the low to mid-range were the sweet spots for the chip, and by implication, that at much higher speeds the other cars would gain the advantage. 'Nuff for me to keep happy in my stealthmobile.
most cars will be priced around 51k...
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Thanks!!
Thanks
Otherwise, if you think you can afford this car without such protection, you would be better and cheaper off with a 2004 S4.
These cars, out of warranty, are for the wealthy, the very wealthy.
And, I love Audis and have owned almost 30 of them.
The chances of something happening to them that will bankrupt you are not high, but IF you are so unfortunate, you will come to appreciate my phrase, "these cars are breathtakingly expensive to repair."
Oh, BTW, this is not simply a condition of being an Audi -- this certainly applies to other fine European marquis too.
Thanks for your input.
S4 - issues, do not know anything, except just recently have seen a new S4 with the muffler system bouncing around. Just needs a weld or solder to fix, but suspect this is not the only issue.
Just wondering.
- Mark
Brian
Brian
- Mark
Brian
Did you check the car on Carfax or the like? I am a little weary of a car that was in an accident that has a rebuilt title.
Will the seller guarentee it? Can you get the car checked by a trusted mechanic?
I would also have the car thoroughly checked over before making the purchase.
The '01 S4 is a great car, and a ton of fun to drive. Repair costs are high though (especially with the engine). Check other sources for any quality issues with that model (aka. JD Powers, Consumer Reports and/or other sources).
Finally, how mechanically inclined are your with cars? If very, and you think the car is in great shape, and can handle expensive repairs if they happen later on, then go for it.
Not that this is any reason to get one over the other, unless absolute performance is your desire. The 330xi was more lux oriented simply due to its lack of sports suspension -- but it had no low end grunt, like the S4 and the sweeeeeeet sound of the V8 in the S4 certainly has merit, too.
$.02.