Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Audi S4 and S4 Cabriolet
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Check this link:
http://tech.vw.com/audipdf/57-98-02.pdf
Download it to disk, then open it. The server has a problem if you try to view it within your browser.
You'll probably have to get your dealer to fix it. Some have found there antenna was merely unconnected, others broken.
Am I the guy with the answers or what?
slang is "U dah Man"..
Thanks for the insight!
To me the choice to take the S4 is hard since I haven't owned the car....it is rathere intuitive that having a nice SUV, new sportbike, with an old ski boat out front seems more appealing than just an S4 in the garage.
Though the S4 is just so sexy and a damn fine car, it seems almost worth any sacrifice.
The great thing about the S4 is that it does so many things so well. It's incredibly fun on a twisty two-lane road, comfortable (and fun, too) cruising down the interstate, can get around in foul weather, and can carry four people without contortions (if not in posh comfort). It looks great (just try not to get silver -- everyone has it), but doesn't attract cops. Ultimately, I can't think of another vehicle I'd rather have as my only car.
But that's just me. Go for a test drive and see how you like it.
How do you like them so far? Do they look as good today as they did when you bought them. Thanks in advance.
The stock tires on the S4 are high-performance tires that really don't do their best in cold weather, let alone the snow. It doesn't surprise me that they can't do much of anything in the snow (although 1/4 inch does seem a little extreme). Sorry you had to find out the hard way, but you really do need winter tires (preferably mounted on some cheap steel rims -- salt kills allow wheels) if you're going to drive at all in the snow. Once you get winter tires, however, the car should do great in the snow.
That said, either the 2001 S4 or 2002 A4 is, IMO, the better choice. If you don't need the back seat room, the current S4 is an amazing car. It easily beats the 330xi in power, has a better AWD system, has a much nicer interior (subjective, obviously), and costs about the same (actually, a 330xi will usually wind up costing slightly more than an identically equipped S4). Some people still prefer the handling of the 330xi, but I must say I don't understand that at all. For me, the S4 wins easily out of these two.
The 2002 A4 should be a more direct competitor to the 330xi (the S4 was meant as more of an M3 challenger). The handling is supposed to be improved on the new A4, and the power will be equal. The A4 should cost a good bit less, so I'd say its definitely the better buy as the two cars are otherwise almost identical.
Of course, nobody actually has a 2002 A4, and you should drive the cars yourself to see exactly what you think of them.
Where are you all finding pics and info. on the 2002??
Also to jituji - I have a lab I haul around in the back of my A4 - the leather is hard to damage but she is past the chewing stage. For rear seat covers try LL Bean or Cabelas (800-237-4444)
Jim
can the EVC made by HKS can increase the boost and give more HP or any other way?
does it has the cool noise like those HKS blow off valve provide or can it be added?
Thanks
Aftermarket chips will increase boost to about 14.7 psi or 1 bar. Some chips will go alitte beyond to 1.1 bar.
With the S4, the turbos are controled by the ECU, thus a chip is very effective (probably better than an EVC). For just $600 to $800, your chipped car is now good for 305 to 310 hp with 365-375 ft/lbs of torque at around 2000 rpm.
Fuel consumption will be the same unless you have a lead foot.
There is no cool noise because there is no blow-off valve. Instead, the car using recirculating bypass valves which dump the charged-air back into the intake system. I would not recommend a blow-off valve because the engine will run too rich. I do wish it had that sound though.
When you buy snow tires when do you switch them out? In March? You can to carry 4 tires in the trunk and backseat to some place to have them switched?
In a nutshell, I'm concerned that I would get hammered on the "excess wear & tear" charges?
I'd be grateful for any comments (including folks' experiences in general w/ leasing Audi's).
Cheers & Thanks,
Cab
How many miles annually will you drive?
How much of the car's use in any way can be attributable to a deductable use?
Could you "literally pay cash" for the car?
If the answer to the above question is yes -- at what rate of return was this cash earning you?
If you are able to buy the car using borrowed money what is the APR?
If you know, what is the MONEY FACTOR (aka APR) for the lease?
Same down payment if any yeilds one payment/term for lease and one for buy -- if you choose $1,000 down and 36 months, the lease payment will be hundreds less per month -- will you invest the difference (in other words are you leasing a car that you could not afford to buy with a conventional auto loan?)
EVERYONE -- whoever that is -- says paying cash is the cheapest, next is leasing, if your milage is under 16,666 miles per year and you "invest" the difference in the monthly payment between a lease and a conventional finance. In other words, you will have either a depreciating asset at the end of the finance contract or a bank account or mutual fund or piece of property or money in your mattress. Depending on the Market and your discipline, leasing will net you "money" that is increasing in value (mostly) or a "thing" that is depreciating in value.
This is neither an endorsement of leasing nor a condemnation of conventional financing -- heck it is not even a suggestion that you should take the money out of some account and plop it down on the S4.
You have to ask and answer the above questions -- for me and for my wife we lease every 24 - to 30 months with no money down.
"(in other words are you leasing a car that you could not afford to buy with a conventional auto loan?)"
To clarify, what I may mean is "are you leasing a car that you could not OR choose not to afford?"
This is an important distinction -- because I am suggesting that, for example, the lease payment will be hundreds less than the finance payment and that IF YOU PUT THE DIFFERENCE between the lease payment and the finance payment in a "growth or interest bearing" investment "vehicle" (e.g., mutual fund, real estate, bond, or money market) you may find that leasing is a "more liquid" (and some would say therefore a "smarter" way to spend the same amount per month).
An S4 with an MSRP of $44,000 (loaded that is) would be $720 per month for 36 months with $1,000 down LEASE; or, $1,330 BUY (36 months $1,000 down) or a difference of $610 a month (in favor of the lease payment).
You would have a "base" asset (cash or equity) of $21,960 in a "mutual fund" at the conclusion of the lease if you dollar cost averaged the $610 a month -- if the "mutual fund" could return 10% annually you would have a minimum of $732 in gain the first year, $1,537 the second year and so on, which would mean that you could have perhaps $24 - $26,000 in cash or equities at the end of month 36 (perhaps more) if you leased versus a practical MAXIMUM of $19,800 (45% of $44,000) in a depreciating asset (a used, perhaps beaten to a certain extent, S4),if you had financed the car conventionally.
Hope this helps clarify.
Unless you absolutely beat the car to death, there is no monetary difference between the value of the car you own (i.e, it could be less if it was "beaten up") and the car you lease (i.e, you could have to pay "excess wear and tear"). I have found that excess wear and tear has a fairly broad interpretation and a car that has been well maintanted and washed, vacuumed and waxed regularly will be considered "normal." Now the definition of regularly is the issue. My car is never washed/vacuumed less than once a week and never "detailed" or at least exterior detailed less than twice a year (we live in Cincinnati which does have winter and road chemicals). And, we don't smoke or eat or drink in the cars, ever. Cars that have been smoked in are AUTOMATICALLY considered (by buyers and therefore sellers) to be worth less than smoke free cars.
End of report.
Good luck.
Jim W
Mileage is not an issue; I will be investing the difference between the lower lease payments & an outright purchase during the 3-4 years I drive the car.
So the main concern is still "wear & tear" (assuming I could negotiate favorable terms): flying small rocks would be a daily aspect of driving on the dirt road I live on & I think numerous small dings/ nicks would be inevitable (though a car bra would probably help.)
Not ever having seen a lease agreement, I don't know what kind of language is used. I guess I'll have to visit the dealership & see what gives.
Many thanks again,
Cab
On the other hand, if the hit on the wear and tear is a couple hundred bucks, turn the car in and pay the money and let them deal with it.
If you owned the car and were going to trade it in your "hit" would generally be greater than the hit at the end of lease termination (at least this has been my experience.) Moreover, if you had a 36 month lease, for example, and at month 31 or 32 ordered a new Audi from your dealer and "took delivery" in month 34 or 35, the end of lease issues are often "forgiven." After leasing many cars, most of them Audis, we have found that we get the best deals when we keep the car less than the full term of the lease (by a month or three) -- timing is important, there are deals that seem to happen at least annually that can mitigate many of your concerns. Of course this virtually presupposes that you will be a loyal Audi "owner."
Thanks!
See you soon in an S4 hopefully.
Cheers,
Cab
Jim W
I've never leased a car before. Anyone else using this plan? What are your thoughts on the mileage and wear/tear issue if I plan on keeping it? What are your thoughts on the residual value of the S4 in 36-48 months?
Any help will be appreciated. Scotrick
Scotrick: Leasing and buying are exactly the same thing - they are simply forms of financing an asset. The benefit to a lease is that you only finance the portion of the asset you use, i.e. the first 3-4 years. Also, the sales person at the Audi dealership you spoke with was feeding you a "Clinton." The truth is that with any lease offering you the option to buy, you are putting equity into the car. Say you lease an S4 for $40,000 using a 50% residual. With most leases you can purchase this car at the end of the term for $20,000 - obviously you put $20,000 "equity" into the vehicle. Personally, I would not go for a lease with a balloon payment because it limits your flexibility - you have to pay it! (Unless you know for sure that you want to keep it long-term and that the APR offered is better than a simple lease with the option to buy at term's end)
Jim W
I try to stay away from leases too. If I do plan to finance, I'll have to drop a pretty good down payment to get the monthly payment I can live with. I just don't know what I'll do yet. I haven't seen any long-term data on the S4 (mainly reliability, maintenance, and customer satisfaction, etc.). I've read some recent reviews out there...they're pretty mixed (I think most are in favor of the S4's performance). I also think I can live with the weaknesses I've read about the car. I wonder how long the S4 has been in the European market...maybe there's some long-term data out there somewhere and I just haven't found it.
It's hard to say whether I'll keep any car for ~8 to 10 years (or more). I see alot of older BMWs around town (which still look pretty good design-wise). I don't see too many older Audi's out there. Just curious(?)
Thanks for your input though...anyone else have any thoughts on this matter? Any major problems with the S4?
Jim W
There are fundamentally two plans -- and no matter what you call them, they work the same -- it doesn't matter if their "name" is lease or buy. The two plans are "open" or "closed." A finance or a Premier purchase or an "open ended" lease may offer an "effectively" reduced payment. But the cost to you is either cash out of pocket (a down payment) or the almost certain loss of liquidity and a likely financial disappointment when you get rid of the vehicle (this latter emotion and cost are reduced if you actually keep the car until it's market value, but not practical value, is zero or close to zero -- generally over 6 years).
If you can actually fork out money to cut the "finance cost" -- you will buy down the payment (no matter if it is a lease or a buy). But, if you have the liquidity to do so, you still need not do it. You will still be better off if you lease with virtually no money down.
Keeping in mind the virtual certainty of another short term interest rate cut, and the virtual certainty of some kind of tax cut -- you can "bet" the Stock Market will go up. Several Mutual Funds provide "virtually instant" liquidity -- and if you believe in our Markets -- will "appreciate." As much as I love Audis, I cannot think of any Audi that will do anything other than depreciate.
Putting money into a car that you plan to keep about 3 years, to lower the payment, is the equivalent of lighting twenty dollar bills on fire, just to watch them burn.
Again, if you have the money to put toward "cap cost reduction," do the following:
1. Find the S4 that you like
2. Make the best deal on it you can (the deal being the "amount" that the dealer will take, without regard to the source of the funds, i.e., leased, totally a cash purchase or financed conventionally)
3. Determine the amount you "are able to put down"
4. Find out the lease payment (with no money down) for say 36 months
5. Find out the lease payment (with the amount down from step 3)
6. Find a reasonalbe Mutual Fund (remember past performance is no gaurantee of future performance, but it is an indicator)
7. Perform some simple amortization (from the perspective of debt reduction and wealth creation)
Unless you are expecting an ROI of 1% or effectively putting your money under your pillow, I am confident you will find that keeping your down payment and investing it plus investing the difference between a closed end lease and a straight finance payment amount using dollar cost averaging will generate two things: 1. you driving a new S4 and keeping your money in the "bank" (or mutual fund), and 2. at the conclusion of the lease having money in a mutual fund that is worth more than the 36 month old used S4 -- which as every second passes continues to depreciate.
If I got this out correctly, as I am fairly certain I have, and you actually do the math, you too will find that if you can't or don't want to pay a lump sum of cash (to purchase the car outright from the get-go) that the best way to buy a car is to "rent one" via a conventional low rate "closed end," zero money down, LEASE.
Whew!
That is a great reply to the question of lease vs buy. I try to inform everyone I work with that there really is no form of financing that is different. In actuality, I believe car companies came up with leasing in reply to a few factors:
1) The support the significant increase in the average prices of automobiles.
2) To gain back some profit at the dealer level lost as invoice data became widely available.
3) To encourage faster purchase of new automobiles - get consumers out of the buy-and-hold mindset.
4) To enable consumers to buy higher-end automobiles they would previously be unable to purchase due to fiscal constraints (higher end means greater margins).
Tom
Tom