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High End Luxury Cars



  • image

    This is a photo I took of the interior of the Ferrari Enzo. I really don't think that it is pretty or luxurious, but I'll bet it's a fun place to be.
  • oac3oac3 Posts: 373
    For $750K, the Enzo better be a lotta fun to drive. Why would anyone pay that kinda money ? OTOH, the LS and Audi are competing in the full size, luxury sedan space, and hence everything about them must attract the buyer in that space. Fun looking takes second priority over luxurious features and ergonomics. That is where, IMO, Lexus trumps Audi. The LS interior exudes quality and luxury. The Audi says "German", spartan, matter-of-factly, and round knobs for controling everything. Not my cup of tea !

    Like I said, the Audi A8 ain't burning down dealers doors, are they ? The buying public speaks loudly on what they want and prefer, and the A8 ain't even close to its competitors. Maybe the interior ergonomics (besides the all aluminum body) have a role in its lack-luster sales performance ???
  • I enjoyed spending time in my LS430. One doesn't need a manual to figure out most of the controls--except the nav system.

    I test drove an 04 745i recently, and even the transmission controls are confusing. What is the purpose behind that? One can ignore the idrive and seat controls once you have the settings.

    I looked at the Jag and the Audi. Both have nice interiors. I especially appreciate the elegant simplicity of the Jaguar.
  • pathdocpathdoc Posts: 126
    I have to disagree regarding the comment about the lack of a need for a tachometer with auto. I like to keep the rpms optimized for performance in a variety of conditions and use the manual mode frequently. Try driving Calif. Highway 1 from San Luis Obispo to Monterey in 5th (or 6th) gear and tell me you enjoyed it.If you don't like sporty driving then I guess you don't need a Tach. but for those of us that do it is more important than the speedometer (especially if you keep your radar detector on at all times).
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Here is that GS design. The C&D picture has a better angle view than this.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I think the GS, if it turns out to be like the LF-S concept, is pretty radically styled. Personally, I'm not sure I'm going to prefer the styling over the E or 5, but I'd have to see the final product in person.
  • carnaughtcarnaught 'zonaPosts: 2,330
    The new designs look sah-weet, but don't expect our regular Lexus bashers to jump on the bandwagon.
  • I am sure he will be on the board soon to tell us this new Lexus looks exactly like an SL or some other mercedes.

    Lexus just can't help but copy the styling of those German cars
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    This line of conversation is not going to go away until people stop bringing it up .... not sure why folks who say they don't want to hear it keep talking about it ....
  • oac3oac3 Posts: 373
    Are these designs not just the concepts ? Or are these the ACTUAL 2005 GS redesign pics ? Confused.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    That is most likely the car but I'm sure there will be some modifications. It's hard to imagine the side mirrors not being modified. But Lexus has not strayed much from the showcased design in the past.

    Michael - merc1 is not a fan of Lexus designs and has said he thought they needed a breakout design to define themselves better. Lexus themselves have said this as well. This new concept which will go across the whole line is certainly that breakout. I'm sure some will love it and some will not. Personally I think the LS and LX (the only Lexus cars I've ever had) are classically styled and all the bashing in the world is not going to change that. Merc has bashed the Lexus designs but acknowledges their accomplishments at the same time. Whether he likes this new design concept is entirely up to him. All that matters is whether the car buyer likes it.
  • I like it......a lot
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    So do I and I just wonder what the new LS,LX and later the GX will look like within this concept.
  • I actually appreciate Lexus's restrained design and conservative approach. Their cars may not be especially distinctive, but neither are they offensive or controversial. The new RX and ES are strong and clean designs in my eye, and the LS430 while "boring", is also very uncluttered and not likely to grow tiresome quickly. Also, I'm sure the Lexus folks are watching closely the cold shoulder the BMW 7, 5 and Z4 are receiving and laughing all the way to the bank.

    A true test is to take a look at some of the auto designs that still look good today. The E38 BMW 7 series, the first generation Q45 and the first and second generation Lexus LS class all still look clean and "new".

    My 2 cents...
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I read maybe 1-2 months ago a Lexus exec quoted as saying that while there will be a family look, they won't take it to the extreme...I think the quote was to the effect that they wouldn't become like Audi, with "small, medium, and large sausages". So my guess is that the next LS won't be nearly as radical as the next GS.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    The GS targets a different demo so I agree. Nonetheless it will have some of that styling and be more bold I am sure.

    6 inches of snow down here in central Jersey already. Get ready up there in Ct. I think we're looking at a 12-18" snowfall, and here I was hoping this wouldn't be a winter like the last one. Glad I stayed home today.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I'm in the minority but I actually like snow, I think it's pretty. I used to think I wanted to retire to somewhere like HI, but no longer. Of course, if I ever have a serious accident, that might change my mind.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I love looking at it as well. It's really pretty down here and deeper than I thought - more like 8" already plus its starting to blow and drift a lot now too. Now I just wish I had my LX470 back. I'm waiting on the GX till later this month. I was hoping the snow waited with me.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "Those Toyota interiors are all about ease of functionality. No reason to stray from that standard in a Lexus."

    I agree, it just doesn't make for anything special in a 60K+ car.

    While some are already calling the Lexus concept a derivative design (Automobile Mag) I'll wait to see the actual car when it's shown sometime during 2004. The car being shown now is just a concept and a hint (usually 80 percent of the production car) of what the real thing will look like. Truth be told I think it's going to be real hard to come up with a look that doesn't borrow something from someone because between Jaguar, BMW, Audi and Mercedes all the different themes (sporty, classical, radical-BMW (mixed results), traditional) are all taken to a degree. That said, it doesn't appear that Lexus is continuing their old practices, as the concept is pretty radical for a Lexus.

    Thanks for the credit in post #3628. I'm glad you can see that.

    Copying seems to only be brought up at this point by those who can't accept the truth about certain Lexus designs up to this point, as no Benz fan mentioned it this time around.


    Yeah that is pretty ridiculous for 7-Series' seat and transmission controls to be that complicated. I've never ever had to have any controls "explained" to me in a German car before, ever..until I first sat in and drove the 760Li. I couldn't believe it.

  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    My personal opinion here: the current LS's exterior borrows heavily from the last-gen S. But I think that's about it as far as big-time "copying" goes. The IS, ES, GS, SC, RX, GX, LX may not be pretty, but they aren't "copies", imho.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    The November sales report shows Lexus in a clear lead to win out over BMW again this year as the leader in U.S. luxury vehicle sales.

    MB is a distant 3rd only a few cars ahead of resurgent Cadillac.

    Do you think Cadillac will catch MB this year or next? It's pretty clear MB is never likely to be the leader in the U.S. again.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    That's a pretty strong statement re MB. If they improve quality or lower their prices, they could well be number 1 someday.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    IMHO they are still struggling with quality and don't have the financial flexibility to do the latter - MB profits are what is keeping DCX's head above water.

    They've been on a slide for 10 years and there's no signs that it's turning the right way. They'll have to bottom and refocus on real value in a niche to be competitive enough to regain share.

    I could be wrong. IBM made a big turnaround from what seemed like an irresversible decline.

    I think tht BMW is where they are because they were an 'Apple of the Car Industry'..upscale, highly styled and with a powerful user interface oriented towards driving. Unfortunately between i-drive and the ugly butts they gone DOS and FridayNight Freddy.

    Maybe MB will end up the leader in the jewelry end of the market like Rolex is. So-so timepiece, great jewelry.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    Good point max!

    I wonder though, if MB was really serioius about the lux title here, why couldn't they compete against Cadillac in that market?

    It's certainly the case that the lower trim level MBs sold all over Europe as taxi cabs would help them be cost competitive here, then all of the rest of the things that Mercedes a better car in every imagineable way would be a compelling sale.

    Wouldn't it?
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Cadillac has really lowered the number of Devilles sold to fleets.
    They did this over two years ago, that's why you see the decline from 2001-2002 but a smaller decline from 2002-2003.

    Can't believe you guys.
    Cadillac is about to have it's best year since 1994 and you are already dissing them.
    They are about to overtake MB and you guys are already put a spin on why it is happening.

    No respect, I tell ya'.


    Oh yeah, and we can certainly take out Deville's fleet sales if BMW takes out Mini sales.

  • It is just my opinion that We have made some silly comments on this board in order to make one point or another...(myself certainly included....)

    It does seem however that car companies are in the business of selling cars and I don't think it matters to them who they sell them to. The more cars they sell the more money they make and the more people that are introduced to their product the brighter the companies future.

    I will guarantee you that if Mercedes could sell taxi's in this country they would...(they sell lots of them in other countries) They sell cars to Armys for use by generals in other countries. They would crack the rental market if they could and of course they make fleet sales when they can.

     Bottom line a once great car company has lost it's way, they are over priced, have declining sales and are establishing a rep. for a less then reliable product....They don't offer the luxury or ride of a Lexus or the handling and driving fun of a BMW. They are stuck in the middle.

    They will eventually find their way back..
  • "Bottom line a once great car company has lost it's way, they are over priced, have declining sales and are establishing a rep. for a less then reliable product....They don't offer the luxury or ride of a Lexus or the handling and driving fun of a BMW. They are stuck in the middle"

    Great point. Couldn't agree more !

    But, MB fans should have plenty to say on this topic :)

    Fire away, merc1 !
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Whether that is 80% of the car or 95+% - what did you think of it?

    MB sales - They still sell double what they did 8-10 years ago and they are the most expensive cars. Cutting price would hurt both image and profits (their build and distribution costs are much higher than Lexus you have to remember. Lexus sells more vehicles with less than a quarter of MB dealerships! That's efficiency) Plus they made a pretty big cut in prices already from the last gen cars particularly on the S-class. But it is still a helluva brand and many aspire to it. I doubt they are declining but as the market expands they are definitely getting a smaller slice of the expansion pie than Lexus and BMW are getting. I do think BMW's poor designs will hurt them a lot in the next few years though and you will see Lexus and MB gain at their expense. BMW better be very careful with that 3 series restyle. The C-class will rout it.
  • I do not like the styling of the new BMW but that is something that will be quickly changed as sales fall off.

    I think Mecerdes (a car I and probably most of us once aspired to) will take a very long time to fix their problems. You are right They can't cut costs and the failing reputation of their products quality can not changed in a year or two...IMHO, It is currently getting worse not better.
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