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High End Luxury Cars



  • topspin628topspin628 Posts: 373
    Wow! Is it just me or are there some Lexus employees on this board? Sure seems personal.

    Anyway as a point of interest, a limo service picked me up today in an 01 S500. It's a small company and the owner uses this car all the time for limo duty. He has over 160K on it and told me that he never had a problem, electrical or otherwise. Only basic maintanince and at a bit over 100K had to have the front end done- is that normal at that mileage for most cars?

    He bought an extended warranty for 150,000 miles so it was at no cost to him. Car felt tight and quiet from the back seat and I never would have guessed the miles. I guess "some" benzes are still "good as old".

    Another interesting question/point: With car performance,features and reliability improving for all brands, it would be interesting to see a review of a 5-7 year car done now as if it were new and to see how it would rate right now against today's standards.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    A RWD Car is generally more reliable that a FWD car in the chassis dept. So I wouldn't doubt a S500 only having a front end job at over 150K miles.

    "Wow! Is it just me or are there some Lexus employees on this board?"

    It doesn't seem to you like there are some(well actually one at this moment) BMW employees on this board?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Stay away from profits - for your own good. It'll take BMW 20 years to make what Toyota made last year. You need GE or Microsoft to top Toyota and that's just barely. BMW doesn't play in that league.
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Posts: 120
    "Lexus is outselling BMW again this year by a rather large margin"

    As of June it Lexus 115,102 to BMW's 115,737

    WRONG, again, MAX.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Don't know about that because you don't put any sources with your posts. But the last official scorecard I saw had Lexus well ahead of BMW with record sales and they just had a great June. Actually - 18 consecutive months of record sales is what I read.

    I'd love to know where you got your demos from on the 3-series. I know the demographic codes backwards and forwards and every company that puts them out and never saw many of the demo profiles you posted.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Couple of things here --

    First, some of you need to calm down. I've removed some posts and will continue to do so if the messages continue to be uncivil.

    Second, if one cannot or will not post a link to a message that appears to have been copied and pasted from another website, the message will have to be removed. The link must be publicly accessible - meaning not to a site that requires a paid membership, for example.

    There are several reasons for this - ensuring we are not violating copyright laws is one of them. Showing the readers that the pasted material wasn't completely made up is another. Letting the readers here evaluate the source for themselves is one more.

    Email me with any questions or comments, thanks.

    And please keep this conversation civil. There is a very interesting debate going on here, but the one or two of you who can't keep the flames out of your posts are out of line.

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Yeah. Plus this is the geriatric ward of Edmunds and the cardiac monitors are smoking at the nurses station... I'm all shook up! Think I'll sneak a shot of VO in my Ensure... oh Jeez, gotta go... here comes the nurse...
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Think again livinbmw,

    Thru 1st half of 2004:
    Lexus: 138,139
    BMW: 125,824

    Both of these numbers are from their respective press releases on 7/1/04.

    Better yet, BMW had 3 new or redesigned products for 2004, the 5-series, 6-series, and X3 and sales have only increased 5% over the same time in 2003. Meanwhile with the supposedly cushy cars that nobody wants(and that are unsturdy, bland, chick cars) Lexus increased sales 17% over the same time and with the only new product being the RX330.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Hmmm ... all of you who keep quoting sales figures would be far more credible if you'd just link to your source. Dunno why that's so hard. :)
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Wow, apparently people must like the '04 LS430, even though its an unsturdy boring yawn box.
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Posts: 120
    I sat in a typical regional sales meeting in the mid 90's with a very successful toyota dealer principal and he interrupted this poor sales manager fellow and walked up to this eraserboard and wrote down one word and said that this is all I care about. "Now let's get the bleep out of here," he said. The word he wrote on the board was ... results.

    Can't argue with Toyota/Lexus results.

    McDonald's sells lots of Big Mac's, too. :)
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
     That was an interesting story about the S Class car. I'm not surprised, regardless of the stats, the S is a great car. I'm having to replace front end bushings on my 12 yr old LS400.He managed to get a warranty? I wonder how much that must cost.
      I don't get all this talk about Lexus being excessively boring..Where exactly can you drive about 70 MPH anyway? I've never gotten about 80 around here..That's probably why I don't see the need for so much HP in these new cars.. The 250 HP in my LS400 is more than enough. If you live in an area with lots of windy roads, then I can see your point..

     I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't mind giving those "I don't like SUV's Why do you?" board a run for their money on the number of posts. That would be really amusing.

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    but if you do, you have to keep it civil and on topic. No posts just for the sake of driving the post count up.


  • topspin628topspin628 Posts: 373
    He told me that the extended warranty cost him about 4K but that 150,000 is the max so now he's on his own. He said that he plans to keep the car another year or so and probably be at around 250k on it. Pretty impressive to me.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    The thing I like best about the Toyota press release is that more than 65% of the cars are built right here in the US. Good for America for sure but also shows that Anericans are very good auto producers. It also shows that Toyota has one hell of a production process that maintains great quality and reliability no matter where they build their cars.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I had an S430 limo take me home from JFK a couple of years ago. The guy also had a troublefree car. What surprised me the most was that the fee was the same as you'd pay in a traditional Lincoln limo that just about everyone else has. Funny - but he was also between an LS430 and an S430 as the car of choice and chose the latter because of the greater leg room in the rear. I haven't seen it develop much but he felt the limo business would move to more high end cars.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I’d like to know WHAT the hell is so important about sales figures except to show profit/loss trends as it pertains to each model and manufacturer.


    Livinbmw, you had more momentum talking about BMW as a performance manufacturer. How about mentioning that THE TREND IS TOWARD PERFORMANCE SEDANS and speculating how everyone will measure up… why no has been able to emulate the BMW formula and how only now they are starting to mount formidable challenges.

    Want to know why sales talk is usually boring? Because it isn’t creative. Everyone quotes statistics but they don’t have the guts to PREDICT. I want opinions. I want intuition. I want ideas.

    Yeah, I like demographics/psychographics but I want to hear opinions on how and why they are used to a manufacturers advantage or detriment. For instance, the BMW buyer is considered a technophile. Did BMW have the wherewithal to figure out that it couldn’t pull the wool over the eyes of it’s technophile buyers with iDrive and the frivolous self-serving active steering? Nah, instead they figure they have one of the highest percentages of repeat buyers. Sure they’ll buy whatever we throw at them and at the same time it will look like we are on the leading edge of technology. BS.

    I wonder how the M5 will do without manual transmission. I guess BMW figured they could forget about their enthusiasts, take them for granted and shove SMG down their throats, then drag buyers over from Mercedes. Also, that high revving 8200 redline engine better have some torque at the low end. The average Joe doesn’t know how to drive high revving engines and all of the torquey Mercedes could seem a lot better on the surface for real-world driving. Even the high revving Ferrari 612 Scaglietti took a knock regarding lack of torque off the line, and the MB CL600 beat it in certain speed categories. You have to spin that engine to realize its talent—not practical for everyday driving.

    From every angle it looks as if BMW has sold its soul—and that Mephistopheles has double-crossed them!!

    Full disclosure: I love Sinatra and most kinds of music. Lexusguy, aren't those cool groups you mentioned the favorites of Beavis & Butthead? I know Metallica is.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Metallica came on the scene in '82-83, long before beavis and butthead. I liked Metallica in those days because they werent like the cheesy "glam rock" of the time. Unfortunately Metallica sold their souls as well, but particularly the '86-92 era was fantastic. Pearl Jam isnt really a B&B kind of band (though they did make fun of the Daughter video). Filter was long after B&B was over.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    Indeed, this is a point I have made in this board before: sales numbers don't really mean all that much. Ferrari would be an undesirable and crappy board if that was the case. In fact, exclusivity goes hand in hand with the concept of luxury.

    And the whole partisan brand religion is ridiculous. Big companies will always have cyclical success patterns.

    I do think the German car brands are basically victims of their past success, paying for excess. But it is clear they are changing that, only it will take a few years to show. And ultimately Toyota will fall victim to the tyranny of the growth mandate, too. Momentarily.

    But none of this is relevant to the virtues of a particular car this board may discuss.
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Posts: 729
    So the low-volume M5 makes sense from a marketing standpoint, if they want to get a ROI from their SMG R&D dollars.

        Are they enhancing the M5, or selling what the people want? Don't think so. With the new engine, it would sell with a 3-speed column-shifter!

        Stop player-hatin' on Lexus' sales numbers. They'll only get better once the new IS and LS get here in '05, plus Toyota's hybrid power proceeds to take over the luxury landscape.

        I'm surprised the A8 doesn't do better. It's selling like a Q-ship!

  • livinbmwlivinbmw Posts: 120
    thanks, for getting me back on point.

    Performance and the driving passion that goes along with it .......that's BMW's forte.

    You know this SMG thing in the M5 is great technology but it's going to leave some prospective buyers scratching their heads in disbelief and frustration. The several M5 owners that I know are most definitely going to have some serious reservation about not having a clutch. However, I'm confident that the car will have waiting lists and for every person that won't consider the car because of the lack of a manually controlled clutch there will be someone else willing to pilot this monster. I can't wait to get my hands on one.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I still dont like the styling of the new M5 at all. And if history is any indication, BMW will be first to break the 500hp barrier in the midsize class, only to be beaten by M-B and Audi maybe 2 years down the line. I dont know how much more than 450hp Audi is willing to go, but its clear that M-B is taking a back seat to no one, especially BMW, on horsepower.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ..... ** Plus this is the geriatric ward of Edmunds and the cardiac monitors are smoking at the nurses station.. ** ..... l..o..l...

  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Hey, DrFill, nice to see you around here.

    100+ posts in a little over 4 days ? Geez !!! this forum made it into Edmund's top-10. What's the fuss all about here ???

    I haven't read all the posts, but have to make a small comment addressing Designman's post. Yes, sales may not be important to the art of driving and performance, but it is bottomline, afterall this is a *for-profit* business, and if those profits don't come in as expected, you'll have the issues some companies are facing today.

    Hey, designman, Merc1, maybe you both wanna take an 04 LS430 out for a spin. Here is how an owner describes the 6-speed shifter/tranny in the 04 LS.

    mapleleaf "Lexus LS" Jul 16, 2004 7:51pm

    Think the LS is that mush and boring car you all claim it is ?? Maybe a test drive will change some of your views on this car, eh ?

    Now back to my lounge chair, while you all have more fun.
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    I just discovered this forum this weekend and can't stop reading. Its the best. I have many things to do and you guys are messing up my plans!

    RE: "2. Lex fuel filler on left, Benz on right, huh?"

    Most design decisions on German cars are based on occupant safety.
    (VW discontinued the optional driver-side sliding door on their vans the same year that chrysler "invented it" because of kids & traffic)

    RE: GAS-CAPs
    So, you run out of gas at night on the highway and pull to the side of the road. When your friend/spouse arrives with the gas can, do you want to be standing IN the traffic to fill up, or safely on the other side of the car? This is typical of the subtle differences between European and Japanese design.

    Here's my gross generalization on design criteria:
    The Japanese go for style & efficiency.
    The Europeans for safety, utility and efficiency (& in Europe, performance/handling is a safety feature ... esp. at 150 MPH).
    The American makers slap together the car in whatever fashion is cheapest (with CARB requirements driving any efficiency aspects)
  • hjcanterhjcanter Posts: 31
    So, what is the opinion on the new A8? I am looking at that and the new A6 4.2
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,365
    agree designman.....wish they can get act together really quick and bet the cAyenne up to excellent in reliability....

    I had a 2000 boxster S, and loved it...but had to sell due to 2 kids and wife... :(
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "So, you run out of gas at night on the highway and pull to the side of the road. When your friend/spouse arrives with the gas can, do you want to be standing IN the traffic to fill up, or safely on the other side of the car? This is typical of the subtle differences between European and Japanese design."

    Various Lexus cars have gas caps on either side. They put the gas cap on the side where the gas tank is genius.
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Posts: 120
    how 'bout a 3 series convertible......

    back seat, trunk, a viable family car? why not
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