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High End Luxury Cars



  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    "Well..... the audi guy is starting to convince me.... "

  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    No the Buick La Crosse is a century with 2002 MB E class lights at the front and Pontiac G6 rear lights.
    Now you want a unique design? I will show you an excellent design theme Pal! .jpg

    Now if only Le General would use the promised 2 Billion on this design theme
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "Once have stated numbers I can't verifiy. Where did you get those numbers???? Those specifically."

    Go to DIdn't I say that in the post?
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    I don't know, for some reason some of these newcomers feel threathened by Lexus, so they feel they must bash and make up facts.

    Infiniti really doesn't have anything in the high end market which is competitive. I think the next Q45 will change that greatly.

    Acura doesn't have anything to compete against cars like the A8, 7-series, S-class, LS430, XJ8. Neither does Volvo. That's why you don't see them discussed in this forum.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    If you were really talking high end, there is Maserati Quadraporte, Bently, Maybach, S Class, Phantom, and probably nothing else out there.

    So, I think Infiniti is in the game with the G35. A8 is still not the Creme de la creme of Sedans
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Whats your point? Lexus interior materials are industry best. You think thats fake wood in the LS? Just because it doesnt offer a V-12 doesnt make it any less highend than 7, S, or A8.

    Audibob, $26K for an A6 2.8 is a big fat rip off. I've seen those cars for 17-19K. Also, how is the resale of the previous A8 compared to LS? You can get a '00 A8 for chump change. Those cars tank even faster than the A6 does.
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
      Lots of posting going on today..I'm not even going to dignify the anti Lexus posts with a response. You must be living in a cave to not know Lexus is a high end player. They entered the market with a High end car (LS400) in 1990.
     I have yet to see cars that sell for sticker price. Even Mercedes is starting to discount their prices these days. (This comes from my experience with Herb Chambers MB Dealers).

      Nice posts on the Cadillac end of things. It's about time GM got their act together. I find the exterior designs too "loud" for my tastes, but those interior pictures I've seen are quite nice. I think it would be a big mistake to ignore them. That CTS offers a big punch for the money. I'd love for GM to build the Velite. What a nice looking car.

      That Lexus GS picture looked terrible. I hope that car looks better in person. I certainly hope it is not a harbinger of things to come. What is it with Lexus? Why can't they build a nice looking sedan? I'd say the E Class is the looker of the lot. Even with their current issues, the MB sedans are really nice looking.

    Well as always things are interesting here.

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Relative to before. Audibob must have finished work for the day. Between the posts he must have sold a lot of cars at sticker. Heck if it wasn't so late in the model year he would probably have commanded a premium of 10% over sticker.

    Wait till merc1 sees all these posts. He's not going to know where to start.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    Merc1 will appriciate those who praised MB. I for one respect MB very much. But I support the oppressed underdog, that is Cadillac
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Definitely making some good moves. The Germans shouldn't undersetimate them. When will they learn? Glad to see Toyota not falling into that trap.
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Posts: 120
    Today's manheim auction report says that July avg. auction value for a 2004 A6 quattro is 32,150...........base price new looks like about 41 grand. That's not good.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    Hi Audiobob

    You can get an idea of real world Audi values on eBay. There's a gorgeous (at least on the outside) 2001 Audi A6 2.8 on ebaymotors in your backyard in Texas. &item=2484513273&category=6004

    26 hours to go, Buy It Now for $17,850!!!! Current bid is under $6K.

    There's another 01 in Ohio for $16.9 with more active bidding at $14K with 50K on it!

    Maybe you can pick these up and turn them for a quick profit!

    Good luck shopping!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Hahah. The fact that CR lists the A6 as a "risk" in its list of worst used cars, and its on a lot of lemon law "repeat offender" lists, doesnt help it in the used car market. Even though BMW and Mercedes reliability is not as good as Lexus, their prestige helps them command strong resale (though that is slipping lately). Audi doesnt have any prestige to fall back on, hence their cars tank like Jaguar and Volvo.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    I feel all the luxury makes that were bit players are starting to make a run at the successful luxury brands-BMW, Mercedes & Lexus.
    Jaguar is coming on strong with the XJ8. Acura looks like it may actually make a legit competitor with the RL to the E-class, 5-series, GS-series. And Infiniti is definately moving on up with products like the G35 and, IMO, the next M45 is going to serve Infiniti well.

    Personally, one of the few mainstream luxury brands that are falling behind are Audi, Saab, and Volvo. Audi's sales in recent years have been floating around the same level while BMW, Benz, Infiniti and Lexus keep ticking up. Due to stagnant sales, they are going to dump the cheap-o A3 on our shores. Volvo seriously needs to replace the aging S80, ASAP. And Saab has/is losing alot of it's uniqueness with products like the Trailblazer rebadge the 9-7x, and 9-2.

    I also think the new STS is extremely competitive on the luxury side and the performance side. If only they could fix the CTS's interior.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    I am not sure whether the message is to counter something I said or to show consensus, but I agree with everything you say whole-heartedly.

    Toyota's focus on quality means that they emphasize "process" as a company. Those of us who work in high tech know that process is critical to quality. Toyota is known to have elevated process research, improvement and adherence to a religion. Those of us that work in high tech also know that sticking to optimized process in everything a company does is expensive, and requires investment. Toyota never shies away from that. They put their money where their priorities are.

    Several German companies thought they had the process part down pat, thus pay lip service to it, but have not invested into it as a priority. Design engineers can be as brilliant as you want - without disciplined, process oriented and constantly optimized manufacturing in the back end all the design expertise will not result in quality. Known management fact. And German companies have clearly emphasized product and branding over process, in the end.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Your last sentence speaks volumes about MB and BMW. They prioritized process first and marketing second in the past. But in the last 5-10 years they have reversed. MB really pushes status - witness their commercials with stars standing by the cars they bought. That is really childish when you think about it. It almost insults your intelligence. Buy our car because look who else is buying it. I grew out of being influenced by stuff like that when I ended my teen years. Well maybe a few years later.

    By the way - with 100-200 posts today - your "beautiful women" post takes top prize. Loved it and so perfectly true.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Interesting points, though I question how long the XJ8 will be able to survive in a more long term field. It already cant match Germany and Lexus on features, and its a brand new car. Jaguar has not shown that they've got what it takes to keep up with the heavyweights, which means 6-7 years max model runs these days. I dont think we'll see a completely redesigned XJ8 six years from now. If history is any indication, they'll let it sit on the market for 7-8 years, and then refresh it while the rest of the industry passes it by. Jag also cant survive with one competitive model. XK needed a redesign, (and a new platform its THIRTY years old!!) not an air intake. The X-type and S-type need redesigns also.

    Acura's got a shot, but it depends on how much they are willing to capitolize on their current momentum, and how much Honda is willing to take risks in this market, which they traditionally shy away from. If Acura wants to stay in it, the MDX needs a redesign asap, and the RL is going to need either a hybrid or V8 model.

    Infiniti and Cadillac are coming out swinging, and the establishment had better pay attention. Past successes doesnt mean they cant get crushed if they rest on their laurels.

    The A4 is a great car, but one that desperately needs more horsepower. If given the A6's new V6, it could be a much more competitive player. That will still only leave Audi with essentially 2 cars that can actually sell in volume, and the general public's reception to the new A6 is unknown at this point.

    I honestly dont count Saab and Volvo in the same leagues as the above mentioned. The 9-3 is a luxed up Chevy Malibu, the 9-2X is a luxed up Subie WRX, and the 9-7X will be YET ANOTHER Trailblazer rebadge. Apparently Chevy\GMC\Buick just werent enough versions of the same truck. If the General plans to doom Saab to the same fate as Buick and Oldsmobile, they're sure doing a fantastic job.

    Ford has thankfully kept more of a hands off approach to Volvo, but they desperately need new product also. The S80 isnt even the worst offender. The C70 is. That car dates all the way back to '97, two years earlier than the S80, and the C70s front end and interior components come from the S70, and even older car, which itself was derived from a still yet even older Volvo. The S40 is a good start, now they need to scrap and redo the rest of the line as well.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    Yesterday I received the latest AutoWeek, and they have a new comparison section. This week they tested an S500 vs. a Phaeton. Interesting to note that the Benz had its instruments go dead (with a message saying "Drive to Workshop"), although later they came back on, and that it had a blast of steam shoot from the engine, resulting in the car being shut off and taken away on a flatbed.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    If true, its a new low for MB. Merc1 is not going to like that.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    In my opinion the cars used in magazine tests are pushed to much higher limits than cars in everyday use and would be more apt to have things go wrong.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    That the 1970’s & 1980’s Detroit excuse. That well, you did not use the car as the average family user would. Well, you know the rest of the story. Only now is Detroit seeing the light.
    And Germans are headed that route. You cannot explain stalling in a 100 K plus car. There are no excuses for that sort of conduct. The thing smoked water
  • quemfalaquemfala Posts: 107
    Cadillac for me! Reason -- American! and -- sexy, too!
    and, Life would definitely be better at the beach
  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    Probably retired on his full boat commissions.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I'm still waiting for those pictures of Lexus styrofoam insulation.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    Probably lost his commissions due to quality issues on some Audis that Customers returned. Those things are usually at the bottom of quality surveys, below VW the mothership sometimes

    Doe it matter if it’s Styrofoam, or does it matter that Lexus is the industry standard in quietness? Only Cadillac and Buick come close
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Nah, I think he has a flood of customers today that are buying cars at full sticker!! The customers are knocking the doors down to buy them Audi's!!

    And just to keep the record straight, I don't even hate Audi's.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Trade in the 02 ES300 and get a car that moves you emotionally.

    Try a BMW 330i or a Infiniti G35. They are 2 very nice rides.

    The ES300 is basically a luxury sedan. Like most luxury sedan, it isolates you from the outside world, and therefore doesn't "move you".
    You should have been able to tell that on the test drive before you bought it.
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Posts: 120
    On behalf of the suddenly absent audibob ...... Hey, you know what the guy probably has the day off and doesn't have a computer at home or just got done watching the Cubs game and is snot hanging drunk. He's in the car business. He gets a day off and is entitled to it.
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Posts: 120
    Maybe, you should go and see audibob about an emotionally moving Audi product ....... great resale, too. After all he was the one that clued you in on the foam thing.

    But, I think he's off today.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Love it! Will definitely add that to my street vernacular.

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