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High End Luxury Cars



  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Your passion overcomes common sense. I admire it but would never trust your opinion. Have you ever driven a Lexus LS430? Do you have any clue how great a car it is??
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    No ljflx, I admit I have not. I will be totally up front and say that my knowledge about the LS is what I have read and surmised on my own.

    I agree with you that I would never trust my opinion on Japanese cars because I have no first-hand knowledge of those cars, but you would be wrong not to trust me about European cars. My passion guarantees my informed opinion. You may not like it, but I am far from ignorant.

    As for giving out my advice, you have no business second-guessing me about my Jaguar knowledge in particular because I acutally have one, and know what it is like to live with this car. I too purchased it used, like the person who is posing the questions. So I have even more insight into his line of questioning.

    Some may say I am offensive, but you sir/ma'am are just plain rude and disrespectful. I may attack cars, but have never launched a personal assault against someone. There is a fine line between agressively discussing cars and then offending someone. You should investigate in getting some manners!~ A.R.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I never said a word about the Jaguar. So you must be imagining things. I wouldn't critique something that I haven't evaluated directly. But I do find it interesting that you can critique something you haven't ever experienced but get offended that someone else would pull the same thing on you -- even though in this case I didn't.

    I've not ridden in a Jag but do admire their looks. But I will tell you my next door neighbor had a lot of problems with his and could'nt wait to get out of his lease.

    If you're going to be really be serious about this why don't you take an LS430 out for a test drive? You'll be amazed if you're really honest with yourself.

    I did say I admire your passion and enthusiasm. But I absolutely do not trust your opinion. Sorry if you are offended by that.
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    That's it- I'm out. I thought this would be a fun thing to do- sit around and chew the fat about the automobiles that I love. Discuss, disagree, learn- have a good time with knowledgeable people.

    Instead, I have been shown up by some of the ultimate authorities on high-end luxury models. The most learned, brilliant people to ever walk this earth.

    So I humbly bow out. Good luck all enquirers, because you are talking to the best of the best here. And I always thought America was the land of the free...~ A.R.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Went back and read my posts and don't see why your feelings are so hurt. But I missed something that you said. In your post 632 you say "she's a woman - you can't blame her". You make a comment like that and you have the nerve to tell me I'm disrespectful and have no manners. As someone posted earlier - you seem to be very unsure of your ground and your irrationality proves it.
  • Leonard, I understand that you're a Lexus fan, a die-hard LS430 defender. And you are not alone, there are many more like you out there. I almost traded in my 740IL for a LS430 a month ago. I like many things that you praise so well about it. I tested driving it seriously two different times. To me, the LS drive very good until I did some turning and cornering. Coming from being a 740IL driver, I felt very disappointed. I did not feel the excitement that I have while I tested MB S500. Guess what, I traded my BMW for a beautiful silver/charcoal S500. And I have loved every bit of it. I wonder if you've ever driven a BMW or S class? If you have, I'd love to hear your opinion. If not, I'd suggest that you try driving an S500 with various suspension settings. When you do, please drive it hard, turn it sharp, and see how you feel.
  • arcoates
    I thank you.
    Your comments, advice and suggestions concerning XJ-Jags were timely and most welcomed. Anything else you think of, let me know.
    Thanks, again,
  • 4426444264 Posts: 67
    I have driven the LS430, A8, S500, S430, 750il and would rate LS430 last. I get car sick in the back of the LS430 and as a driver's car, the LS430 doesn't give the driver much confidence. Very disappointed with the brakes as well as the excessive roll in the LS430.

    The only Lexus I like is the GS430, much better handling and performance over the rest of the line.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I meant just stereo wise only, you know there is nothing else disgraceful about a Porsche. But I couldn't believe the sound system in the Carrerra 4.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Toyota will never get any piece of Mercedes, nor is Mercedes itself in trouble. If push comes to shove DCX will become 2 seperate entities, Chrysler being let go that is.

  • I have a 1999 XJ8, and to be honest, I would disagree with the gentleman recommending the 6 cylinder over the 8 cylinder engine. First of all, b/c of the interior-I found the 6 cylinder interior to be kind of busy and difficult to follow, especially while driving, whereas the redesign in 1998 made the dash considerably more streamlined. Also, the recommended maintainence interval on the 8's is every 10,000 miles, and was 7500 miles on the xj6's. I usually keep my cars until they absolutely die, which is well past their warranty period, and as Jaguar's are expensive cars to service, one less trip to the service department for every 30,000 miles is easier on the wallet-especially after the warranty goes down. Next, in 1998, jag came out with side airbags, which I don't believe they had in the 6cylinders. I have no idea whether this should be a purchase consideration or not, as Jag's are pretty safe in the first place, but it's nice insurance. Finally, in comparing the XJ6, I can't really attest to their reliability, but I can say that I haven't had a single problem with my XJ8 and I average about 23mpg on mostly highway driving-and I'm pretty sure that the 6 cylinders isn't as good as mine, as one of the gentleman in my practice has a 1996 6 cylinder and was shocked with my fuel economy. If you can afford it, and I know there's a pretty big difference in price btween the 6's and 8's, I'd really go with the 8.
  • bwhbwh Posts: 76
    I know what you meant, just poking at you a bit. I agree, even the upgraded systems in the new Porsches are a joke. They apply technology to other priorities like power and handling, Germanic priorities, that is why I have one!

    I also have test driven all of these cars and then some. Our first foray into luxo cars was a '95 740iL, not without its problems, but gorgeous to look at and splendid to drive. I looked at the LS400 (used) and the new LS430. I drove both, in the same weekend I drove the 740,750,S430,S500 and A8. I am impressed by the Lexus for quality, smoothness and service reputation. It's no secret that I prefer the M-B and BMW. The one that surprised me was the A8, very well equipped and the nicest interior of the bunch. The reputation of questionable quality kept me away, along with the prospect of repairing a damaged aluminum bodied car. I also would challenge the Lexus fans to take out the M-B and BMW for aggressive drives, this will reveal with no uncertainty the advantages of the German designs. The Lexus may be quiet, well equipped, and reliable, but it simply does not drive like a BMW. Like before I think it comes down to prorities, I like a responsive, virile machine, if I want to relax I use the couch in my living room. I also think it is foolish to suggest that M-B and BMW are in trouble financially and may not be able to compete. That is awfully far fetched, and certainly premature. Niether is floundering or lacking direction, they are the leaders, the innovaters, I have no doubt they will survive and flourish.
  • I (prematurely??) put on my spring/summer/fall 18" wheels and tires onto my MB S500. WOW! The car handles incredibly, without the slightly harsher ride of the 740iL sport (I have a bad back and am very sensitive to this). I have test driven an LS430 (with Eurotuned suspension and 17" wheels and tires), and there is no comparison (especially with the MB's adjustable suspension). I still hink that the LS is unparalled when it comes to interior "sumptuousness", but I guess it depends on what you are looking for.
    The only other area where Lexus blew it and is way behind is in the integration of a digital and voice activated telephone system (don't even try to defend the Lexus/Sprint telephone which Lexus is actually offering to buy back from customers.
    Unfortunately, in all this talk of Lexus technical superiority, Lexus owners fail to give any credit where it is due.
  • bwhbwh Posts: 76
    You struck cord there. I find myself making concessions towards Lexus' for their accomplishments which are impressive. Yet the Lexus fans seem unwilling to acknowledge the stregnths of the German brands.
  • Toyota has no intention of acquiring ANY other car company, including D/C, GM or anybody else. However, they certainly have the financial means to do so -- they're the only ones who do -- and the information I included in my previous post came from the British newsletter I receive weekly; it's not something I made up just to irritate you (although it obviously does).

    arcoates: On the off-chance that you may still be monitoring this topic, allow me to comment on one of your last posts. Re your comment that "I am sorry, but I would take the Jaguar over the Lexus anyday because the Jaguar has a sense of heritage," I respect your love and respect for the marque -- all of us here feel that cars are much more than just sheetmetal and plastic -- but the intangible you describe is totally personal and non-quantifiable. It is also unfortunate that you take such a strong position on a car you've never driven, such as the LS430 (or any Lexus, for that matter). If handling is your preference, you might want to try the GS400 -- an awesome car with startling performance and handling. If you like a svelte sense of style with your performance, may I recommend the new SC430 -- it has the lovely combination of style, luxury and performance normally personified by Jaguar.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I did not look at the BMW 740. Neither I nor my wife like its style and too many people we know had problems with their BMW's and told us to stay away from them. All of those people, like those on this board, raved about the engineering, but complained bitterly about the breakdowns.

    We did however seriouly evaluate the A-8 quattro, the E-430 4matic - both because of the obvious all wheel drive - and the S430 and S500. We weren't all that impressed with the A-8 and the E-430 was just too small for us though looks wise this was our favorite.

    We really wanted to move away from Lexus because we've had LS-400's in 1995 and again in 1998 - both of which were flawless - and wanted a change. We were very impressed with the S-500 but couln't stand the interior and found the stereo very disappointing. The handling was great but the ride and quietness was not in the Lexus league. The S-430 was'nt powerful enough. If we were goint to go MB it was going to be an S-500. When we finally went to test it against the LS430 we both looked at each other and knew it was still the car for us. But you will not here me knockdown the S-500 - it's a truly great and beautifully styled car. However where it edges out the LS430 is not important to us. We won't drive it the way you noted and prefer the quiet cabin, great ride and wonderful interior. We could'nt possibly take advantage of superior handling because most of the time we have 2 kids in the car including a 2 1/2 year old. I also don't see people on the road driving it the way you say you do. They take turns the same way I do - yes I see the brake lights go on - and I see many people driving 55mph in the right lane.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I find the brakes are excellent, the handling is more than I need and as yet no one has passed out in the backseat. The backseat passengers actually are very complimentary about the car. Your problem seems to be the exception, not the rule. I also have a hard time believing it.
  • 4426444264 Posts: 67
    ljflx -

    I suppose we have different standards, with mine being more on the performance side.

    The problem with the LS brakes I find, is its lack of response when first applied, lack of brake feel- your brakes are either on or off, if you know what I mean. I would not enjoy pushing the LS to its limit unlike the GS, S-class, 7-series or A8.

    As a true 'back seat' luxury car, I find the S-class (stretched version) and 7-series (L wheel base) much roomier, the LS is simply too tight.

    I like the quietness in the LS, although as mentioned, the soft suspension causing the excessive roll was not pleasant at all in the back...
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    You must have a chaffeur at least some of the time. My boss feels that way about his A-8 which is always driven by his chaffeur. By the way I did not know The S-class had a stretched version.

    Let me clarify one other thing. When I say that my wife & I couldn't stand the S-Class interior it wasn't intended to mean it was shoddy. We both felt that it could be made more luxurious -paticularly given the cars price - but what I meant was MB's functional layout left a lot to be desired - particularly vs. that of Lexus which is so well thought out.

    It's nice to see your a gentleman.

    Last thing - don't know where your from but if you come to New York and take a taxi you'll find out what real "body roll" is.
  • I appreciate your adding additional comments to our discussion of Jaguar motorcars.
    I tend to agree with you that the XJ8 is probably an improvement over the "the old workhorse" engine of the XJ6, but may be more a matter of taste (dashboard configuration, etc., engine hp, etc.).

    The safety issue is always one for me. I do think that the addition of side air bags increases ones protection in what is an otherwise quite safe vehicle.

    Thanks for confirming the reliability of the Jag.
    In the public mind this seems to be a caveat.

    One further note, you say you drive them "till they collapse". Have you ever purchased an "extended warrenty" to cover what could be costly repairs? If so, what company have you found provided the best coverage and was the most reliable?

    Any other purchase or ownership advice ?

    Thanks, christchurch
  • 4426444264 Posts: 67
    Thanks for your kind words. Car selection is a very personal thing, there's no right and wrong. I wish the GS will have more room and the A8 would depreciate less..

    When I mentioned the S-class stretched version, I meant the long wheel base. I have been in the short wheel base S-class and it doesn't offer much room in the back (rather tight similar to the LS) much less when compared to the 7-series iL or the A8.

    I have experienced the NYC taxi ride and have been quite impressed. Actually, think the soft ride works very well with the road condition as well as the driver's aggressive style.. I have great respect for the drivers giving the passenger the biggest bang for the buck getting you from A to B in the shortest time.
  • Hello ChristChurch,Shezhad,arcoates,
    I just bough a 1998 VandenPlas with 47k miles on in for 32. It is immaculate. Had it checked out and seems to be nothing wrong with car. I will have it checked out by a Jag dealer in my area. I bought a extended warranty from a co. called Herritage. It sounded good for me. Anyone know of the company? My wife is in serious love with this car and so am I. I have had 420SEL Benz, 3 Lexus
    LS 400. But I LOVE the Jag. I hope I did the right thing as in long term reliability.
  • for love. In fact, some previous owners complained when the reliability started to improve because it diluted the car's exclusivity -- it used to be that you had to own at least two cars, so you could drive the other while the Jag was in the shop! However, Jaguar quality is right near the top in the latest JD Powers surveys, so you may very well have the best of both worlds -- good luck with that sweet ride...!
  • I usually keep my cars until about 200-250K, and both I am my wife have offices far enough away that we end up putting around 25K on the cars every year. That said, I've never bought an extended warranty. I usually take the risk because 1.most of my miles are highway miles, which isn't as rough on the car as city, my experience most warranties either won't cover a car past 100k, or if they do, the cost is pretty prohibitive, or deductables are pretty large. I've been driving this distance for about 20 years, and in that time, EVERY car that both my wife and I have used as our primary vehicle (mercedes S & eclasses, BMW 5 & 7's,Audi v8, Rangerover, and even my one japanese car, a 1990 lexus ls400) has needed a transmission rebuild at some point between about 75K-130K. The rebuilds usually ended up costing about 2000-4000 dollars, depending on the car. Beyond that, I've been very fortunate in that I've never had any really prohibitive engine problem with any car I've driven. I should add that I've alway followed the manufacturers service specifications to a T, and been very fastidious about this. Moreover, I have a mechanic that I've been going to here in Northern Virginia for quite a few years, and the minute my warranty goes out, I know that my mechanic is trustworthy-and he gives me a 12k/12month warranty on any work he performs (as opposed to just 30 days at the dealer). Hence, I have quite the peace of mind that when something does go wrong that it will be fixed properly. Of all the cars I've owned, none has been as alluring to me as my XJ8, and although I always wanted one, I made a point of never owning a Jag as a daily driving machine b/c of their reliability issues. After my purchase though, thank god, and knock on wood, my XJ8 has been one of the better cars (better than the BMW's and Audi, about even w/ the mercedes, and worse than the Lexus)in terms of reliability, and after almost 60K it needs no work. I have no doubt that I will have to get the transmission worked on at some point, but beyond that the car is just as reliable in my mind as the day I bought it. These really are great cars.
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    Don't get all worried that I am coming back, because that is not the case at all. I have permanently removed myself from this discussion for personal reasons.

    This message is to tell jarmstrong2 that if he wants to correspond with purely jaguar owners, he would be wise to visit the XJ SERIES board. We all have first-hand knowledge of the vehicles, and not speculation, so it is the best place to go for more info. Hope to see you there.~ A.R.
  • Why in the world would you think that we're worried? We welcome your insightful comments and droll sense of humor. Seriously.

    - D.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Thanks. Car selection (like everything else you buy) comes down to paying for the car that has what you want and not overpaying for what you don't need. I'm sure if I wanted handling I'd opt for the S-500. It's not that I don't want a good handling car - I certainly do - but the LS430 gives me pretty good handling with the best ride of any of these cars. That doesn't mean the S-500 doesn't ride well - in fact if the LS wasn't around its probably #1 in ride quality. But they do have to improve that interior.

    I hope you gave that taxi driver a good tip. Beware the taxi driver you don't tip well and stumble upon a second time. Then you're in for a ride that you'll never forget.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Article on the front page of the NY Times business section on Saturday told of major problems in its Freightliner truck divison and in its Debis financial services unit. Many trucks coming off lease and being returned to Freightliner at market values that are below lease estimates. Chrysler also continues to be a big problem. This article said for the first time that MB will now share parts (and presumably technology) with Chrysler. I can't believe that it took them this long to do something which was an obvious cost synergy and which should have been a major strategic rationale for the deal.

    I did not read into the story that they are going to share platforms. I agree with you that a move like that will damage MB's stature and uniqueness. But I don't think sharing parts and technology crosses that boundary - at least that's my opinion. I certainly hope they don't share platforms as I plan to evaluate MB vs. Lexus again in 2004. A move like that would probably keep me away. It bothered me enough that my local MB dealership was rather small and tied in with Honda.

    Anyway there will be a major announcement about all this on Monday by both the executive and supervisory boards of Daimler.
  • I don't think the MB side of the house would ever allow platform sharing, at least for cars sold in the US. I would be willing to bet that the announcement would be for a separation of the two companies.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The we're straight then right?


    What gets me with you is that you read something then interpret it for something that it isn't. You've done that several other times in different topics. I don't want to say your a fountain of mis-information, but your reputation preceeds you with me. It would be sicking to any enthusiast for Toyota to get their hands on any European car brand. On another subject what does the 2002 Camry look like?


    The whole merger is a nightmare. If Mercedes and Daimler don't get rid of Chrysler, Mercedes will be ruined. I didn't say DCX didn' have problems, I'm saying that I don't think the Germans will let Mercedes be pulled down the tubes with Chrysler, they'll un-merge first.

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