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Well the problem is (or was) that the same old tired nonsense about the LS being superior in each and every way possible was posted over and over again. This was before certain participation changes happened so it isn't as nearly as bad (ridiculous) as before.
You're going to stand by C&D no matter what they say about the LS says a lot, the others that left could never, ever do that even though they touted C&D tirelessly when they put the LS430 first in that last comparo. That type of wishy-washiness doesn't garner any respect at all. One minute the press is correct about Lexus and the next they have something personal against Lexus. That is just plum ridiculous.
M
I don't think that way as I think the IS350 is Lexus' first real attempt at taking on the G, 3-Series, CTS, and C-Class. And the car succeeded in many respects. The Toyota 3.5L V6 started this whole "over 300hp" thing, now every carmaker is following suit, including Caddy with the CTS packing a 320hp 3.8L V6(enlarged 3.6L) and Acura with the new TL Type-S with 310hp driving the front wheels. Dangerous.
I think the IS is a really great car. The suspension, chassis, power/drivetrain, and overall looks impress indeed. And with the IS500 looming to take on M3, RS4, CTS-v, and C63 AMG, the car is really off to a promising start, particularly since it cuts many of them on the price front.
Er, the TL-S has 286hp, not 310. 320 also sounds a bit "lofty" for the Cadillac.
Lexus is modeling Mercedes C-Class with the IS, in offering the manual on the runt of the litter, but not representin' with the leader of the pack.
Mercedes begrudgingly made the upgrade. Hopefully, Lexus will do the right thing.
They've killed the nanny, so..... :surprise:
DrFill
Wow that is fantastic! An Audi S8 and a a MB S600 within a month. Their delivery dates are so close that you can almost call them twins.
Congratulations!
link title
The upcoming CTS' power was confirmed through Bob Lutz on Detroit Auto on the Speed Channel. The CTS-v will push the 6.0L V-8 to a proposed 450hp and the CTS-SuperV will be over 500bhp by virtue of the LS7 7.0L(427) V8. One question? How in the heck will they get to fit??
She is a self-proclaimed female voice of MB, but when she saw the specs on the S8, she quickly jumped ship and wanted the S8 instead of our original plan of getting another S65. So we sold the CLS 55 on contention that she gets the S8 exactly how she wants.
Well so much for plans as my daughter had my grandson and hence the immediate withdrawl of me in my fav. Audi of all time, my beloved W12.
But there was light at the end of the tunnel as I began to show interest in MB's new S line. And the S600 was the choice for us as it has the ultimate blend of performance, luxury, safety, and comfort..
Needless to say, just yesterday she said that she wants the S600 instead of the S8, so it looks like that I'll be sticking with the Audi, at least this week. Who knows what next week will bring...
Yes, that new 335i also sounds sweet, doesn't it?
Hey! . . . a convertible R8 by 2009!!!
BTW, remember how I had been posting my lone perspective on Lexus going after BMW? Well, now that some time has gone by, I certainly see the IS500 as further evidence, don't you?
TagMan
An IS350 so ineptly close to the 3-Series in terms of sheer dynamics and performance that a novice may not be able to decipher the two.
The GS that has only been on the market barely a year is receiving a critical update to stay with the pack, with the 5-Series as the aim. With the ability to be able to turn VDIM completely off and the welcome coming of the 303hp GS350, as well as the 380hp GS460(later this year), the company will finally take the restraint off of the GS that has been there since it has been on the market-14 years.
And now to the king of all Lexuses- The LS460. This car is what Lexus should've been building all along. The mere fact they are matching the Euro's in power is evidence that they're serious about keeping their "best in sales" crown. With performance being turned way up, and now a hybrid and LWB model, the car has even more reason to be "best in sales". But! Will it be enough? With the competition being especially fierce(probably for the first time), the S-Class currently taking the world by storm, and both the 7 and A8 due for makeovers, the LS is in pivotal moment. They can no longer boast the car as the most reliable or the quietest as the competition is just as good now, contrary to what the blemished reports may say. No, they have to find a way to market the car as being tops in other areas, and knowing Toyota/Lexus, they'll find a way.....
TagMan
Tag, there is no way I missed that mark. Audi has said that the R8 will have a sort of Targa top that will be attached to the roof of the R8. Better than cloth, not quite as complex as a hardtop mechanism.
The previous generation Carrera Targa I owned had a neat Targa top that you could store with the vehicle. My previous Ferrari's Targa top could not be stored with the vehicle, so if the need arose for the top it was SOL. The current Lotus' "hard" Targa top cannot be stored with the vehicle, but there is an additional canvas Targa top that is stored in the vehicle giving the best of both worlds.
We'll have to see what Audi does with the R8. I have high hopes for that vehicle, and I think along with the Jaguar XKR, and the future Nissan vehicle, as well as the new Acura NSX, and others, this decade is going to end with quite a bit of excitement.
TagMan
Interesting. The TL-S already uses every trick in the book to control its 256ft.lbs of torque. While that engine is definitely capable of 310hp, I don't think the car could manage it.
I have to wonder how Infiniti will respond to the CTS, perhaps by launching the rumored 3.7L VQ with 320hp+ when the G gets a refresh for 2010 or so.
For some time now I've been pondering about the way the GT-R will be under the Nissan badge (which I believe is the smart choice, BTW) and what Infiniti might ultimately get out of it.
I think it is entirely possible that Infiniti will get the powertrain of the GT-R to utilize in one of their models, and this will be very good news for Infiniti.
TagMan
Absolutely. I wouldn't complain about a 400+hp G35.
AUDI Q7 TDI V12
Hp,
I loved test driving the BMW 335 coupe so much that I am considering it instead of the sedan. Now I just have to try to figure out how to fit my family in comfortably
Tagman,
the convertible 335 coupe will be shown within the next few weeks in the Paris Auto Show.
Hemi,
I dont know if I could handle the stresses of choosing between a MB S600 or a Audi S8. Thankfully I am not experiencing such stress
DrFill and Lexusguy,
I am so grateful for the Lexus IS and Infiniti G. If it was not for the IS and the G then BMW would not have been pressured to introduce the BMW335i today. Please give my thanks to Lexus and Infiniti.
Syswei,
so you would actually consider a AWD MB? During winters I have driven most my life with RWD around snow/ice covered Toronto . With good snow tires I would never give up RWD .
How much are you required to sacrifice?
PS:The dealers should have them in by now.
If you drive one, you're going to be hooked!
"The Audi V12 TDI is reminiscent of the engine featured in the new R10 Le Mans racing car – it catapults the driving performance of the Audi Q7 into the echelons of top-class sports cars. The car sprints from 0 to 100 km/h in just 5.5 seconds, and has an electronically governed top speed of 250 km/h. Maximum torque is available from just 1,750 rpm. The high-tech diesel engine, with the world’s first 2,000 bar Bosch Common Rail system, provides the high-performance Audi SUV with superior power reserves in any situation. The impressive sound of the new Audi is provided by the ultra-modern piezo-injection system. The V12 TDI transmits this power through a new six-speed tiptronic gearbox to the quattro permanent four-wheel drive system."
"Up to 2,000 bar of pressure is kept within the twelve piezo injectors – a further technological breakthrough. Both performance and efficiency are optimised by this high injection pressure, and the running smoothness also remains excellent. Exhaust emissions are also low. The twin-turbo V12 TDI conforms to the Euro 5 emissions class which should come into force in 2010. Fuel consumption is only 11.9 litres per 100 kilometres. With the high-tech twelve-cylinder engine using TDI technology, the diesel pioneers at Audi have opened new horizons in motoring."
Audi gone wild! Audi is the technological wunderkind.
Let me have one of these now.
I can see the S450 and a S320 CDI or Bluetec being added for the 2008 model year. Question is will they produce the real swiss army knife version for the U.S., a S320 CDI 4Matic.
M
Maybe they also want to avoid the embarassament of the S450 being tested in comparos against the LS460, so want to wait until after S vs LS comparos are published.
Yeah I'm sure you'd go for that.
I think in all honestly they were shocked at the LS going from 290/278hp to 380hp in one re-design. The LS has never made that big of a jump in hp before. Up until the LS460 was shown in Jan of this year the S450 was due in April along with the S600, but on the S600 showed up. Now the mags don't know what a S450 is and neither does MBUSA. I'm sure Mercedes thought the LS460 would have about 340-360hp tops and the S450 and S550 would bracket it.
Then again since they underestimated the demand for the new S they could be holding the S450 back until production/demand is under control. Certain option packages (P03 for example) still aren't available on the S because of shortages. I doubt this will be the case after the LS460 arrives though. I think we'll see the S450 next summer as 08' model while the S550 gets a little hp nudge to 400 or so ponies.
I personally don't think the S450 would help sales at the moment and it won't fend off the LS460 either IMO. They're doing it right this time by keeping the price of entry above all competitors until sales show real signs of weakening. Then bring out the S450 and S320 CDI.
When the W220 was launched the S430 and S500 were first for the 2000 model year, and then for 2001 the S55 and S600 came out, just the opposite of the W221's launch. The S550, S600 and S65 are all here for 2007 and they'll flush out the bottom end of the S range later on.
M
The brakes...."pedal response is snatchy and unnatural."
"Techno-wizardry compromises the natural car/driver interaction. Forsaking the warmth of analogue communication, the LS has gone all digital on us."
I will find out for myself about the brakes at a November Lexus "Taste", but it is the GS450h that really has me curious even though I have no interest in getting one.
I know what instant acceleration is from my electric golf cart and can't wait to feel this sensation in the GSh.
Too bad it doesn't get better mileage and have a larger trunk.
Just bring over the diesel as the base model, which would increase interest in a new model that is very important to Mercedes, as Hybrid Drive is to Lexus.
S320/350 CDI/S450/S550/S600/S65
I think a little restraint might be in order.
DrFill
with green credentials. The specially equipped 7-Series executive cars emit only water vapor when running on hydrogen.
Sounds interesting. But before I ever buy one they will have to improve their performance specs:
The BMW 7 Series Hydrogen 7 Saloon is powered by a 260 hp twelve-cylinder engine and accelerates from 0-100 km/h (62 mph) in 9.5 seconds. Top speed is limited electronically to 230 km/h.
With the statement below I dont think we are going to see too many hydrogen Bimmers in the near future and I am a bit wary about German attempts with hydrogen (i.e. the Hindenburg):
While BMW is developing fuel-cell driven cars as well, it says it is concentrating on the combustion engine because the sum total of its features and characteristics offers the largest number of advantages and benefits all in one.
Hydrogen BMWs
Exactly right.
The initial interest in the LS460 will be significant. After the initial tidal wave, the S450 and S-BluTech will then offer just the right blend of S-Class alternatives.
The entire S-Class line-up will be quite complete and strong at that point.
I would even venture to say that the S450 will offer the competitive "value" that the LS buyers have historically looked for. After all, the LS430 was never the horsepower or performance king, but it did offer the price/feature value.
Thus, the S450 may not need to win the horsepower war, as it will be more than adequate, and because those buyers have proved it is not a top priority anyway, as they are more interested in the price/feature value . . . which the S450 will deliver in spades.
For those that will want more power, there will always be the wonderful S550 and well beyond.
TagMan
I was surprised to see them make the 328xi coupe, as AWD coupes are obviously few and far between. It gives the TT some competition it didnt really have before. One thing BMW definitely does right is give its customers choice.
That's not really fair to BMW. The Hindenburg disaster was the result of gross negligence in terms of maintenance, improperly cooled engines, bad piloting, and burning diesel fuel. It wasn't the hydrogen.
That's true and obvious. There is nothing similar between the Hindenburg tragedy and BMW's use of hydrogen as a fuel, but I'm certain Dewey was just kidding.
Many in the automobile industry as well as certain energy companies are hard at work developing the use of hydrogen as a viable fuel and energy source.
Considering the scope of available hydrogen on this planet, it makes great sense, IMO.
And, quite honestly, just the thought of not needing to import oil from "you know who" and "you know where" makes my heart dance.
TagMan
The only thing the S450 would do is, just as you said, give the value minded shopper a chance to own one. The usual $10k off of the sticker between the smaller and larger V8 seems even more minute nowadays as some cars offer $10k or more option packages.
Now talking S-Class Bluetec, I'm all ears. MB is known for being one of those "quantum leaper" car companies in that it doesn't do the same thing very long. The Bluetec diesel that is ready for US shores should put that extra oomph in the S' sales to stave off the eventual falling trend by a la LS460. A 4800 pound car that gets 33 mpg with all of the creature comforts you can think of plus being quieter/cleaner than many gas engines(MB's old 3-valve 5.0L V8 for one) should prove to be a good move for MB, especially with everyone scrambling to get fuel-sipping cars.
In autumn 2006 Mercedes-Benz is launching the culmination of more than 50 years of coupé tradition with the new CL-Class. The new two-door model combines peerless exclusivity and charismatic design with trailblazing technology which no other car brand is able to offer. The luxury coupé enters new dimensions in vehicle safety with PRE-SAFE® Brake, a unique system which automatically brakes the Coupé when a rear-end collision threatens. Standard equipment also includes Mercedes innovations such as an active ABC suspension (Active Body Control), the Intelligent Light System with five lighting functions and the anticipatory occupant protection system PRE-SAFE®. There is a choice of two powerful engines with eight or twelve cylinders. These generate significantly more output and torque, while exhibiting an exemplary smoothness which lives up to the Mercedes heritage of superb motoring refinement.
The large Mercedes Coupés have been the epitome of elegance and exclusivity in automotive engineering for many decades. They set standards in design and equipment, combining outstanding safety with the greatest comfort and a superior driving experience. In short, Mercedes Coupés are dream cars of a very special kind – automotive classics.
Pardon the above rhetoric in the last paragraph but I just had to include it in this post. :shades:
link title
OK Lexusguy I was just kidding. But if BMW ever got into flying Zeppelins as a business I still would never book a transAtlantic flight with them
There also some interesting info on the BMW Z9. A beautiful car judging from the pics, not quite as Bangle-ized as the 6-Series.
On the S8 and S600: I don't have anymore fingernails as I've bitten them all off on anticipation of getting these two facinating automobiles. My A of A guy told me just this morning that I'll have the 5th S8 to be imported to the states, 3 of which were press cars that will be scrapped after usage. What a pity.......
In contrast a heavy Audi Q7 V12 TDI can achive 20MPG. That in itself is truly amazing!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I figured you probably weren't serious, honestly I just wanted to exert my knowledge of the incident as a Hindenburg expert. For whatever reason the topic doesn't show up in conversations all that often.
You are one amazing fellow, LG!
TagMan
Hardly, because if this LS460 doesn't drive and perform like it has 380hp, then a 340hp S450 that gets 60 mph under 6 secs is going to be a 1/2 second slower to 60 than the LS460, not nearly as bad of a gap as it first appeared to be and then there is the S450 4Matic, something Lexus doens't have an answer for. The key for the S450 is going to be price, not hp. We'll have to see what the acceleration of the LS460 is when it is formally tested.
M
M
I'll bet the farm the rumors are wrong on this one! There is no way MB is going to do a convertible S-Class. A CL Cabrio maybe, or maybe even some type of Maybach derivative, but a 4-door convertible S550, never! IMO of course.
M
I bought a new one when they first came out back in June. I had electrical problems with the car the day I left the dealership. It went back into Audi two days after I purchased the vehicle. The car sat there for over 2 1/2 weeks. They still couldn't figure out the issues. I decided I didn't want the car and asked for my money back. The dealer I dealt with was terrific and had no issues of returning all my money back on the Q7. What was disappointing was the fact that Audi of America could care less about my issue with their new vehicle and had informed me that under no circumstance am I to recieve my money back and that they would fix the car and too bad to me. I was shocked about how they could care less about their customers. I would never buy and Audi again. They are done in my book. There are plenty of other issues with the Q as well but I'm not here to write a documentary on that car.
There are other horror stories on the Q7 board, too, and a couple months back one fellow said his service department had already seen 30% of Q7s back in the shop for non-routine maintenance.
As I posted earlier, and you agree in this post, the advantage of the S450 over the LS460 would not be about horsepower.
In a sort of role-reversal here, the S450 will represent the "value" vehicle to some respects. This should not be hard to understand because for YEARS, the LS430 had less horsepower, and we heard the argument about how that didn't matter to many buyers.
Suddenly we hear how important horsepower is . . . but if that is really the case, then the S550 will provide the winning solution there.
The S450 will be about price and features, and yes, prestige . . . so it seems to me that the LS460 will have serious competition from at least two vantage points, the S550 and the S450. Additionally, the other S-Class models will further round out the lineup with the BluTech and the upper end S600 and S65.
If the price of the S450 represents enough "value", as I believe it will, it'll be a serious contender.
TagMan