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High End Luxury Cars



  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The car is amazing. Merc, I finally understand your enthusiasm for Mercedes.


    If you feel this way about a S430 4Matic I can't imagine how you'd feel after driving an AMG model or the CLS500 or SLK350! P.S. don't drive the new S550 it will likely make you forget the S430 and your impulse thinking will get a lot more expensive.

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I should mention, of course, that when it's best to buy might not always be "new" . . . sometimes the best buy is a "used" one. After all, hindsight can be 20/20!

    I think, however, the question has been pertaining to "new", so I'll chime in on that.

    I guess I'll have to disagree with a few of my well-respected participants. But I'll try to explain why.

    IMO, the best time is at the END of the cycle . . . BUT there is a prerequisite. You have to be absolutely sure that you do not fall in love with the replacement model to the point that you will get buyer's remorse over the previous model.

    That said . . .

    At the end of the cycle, FOUR things readily present themselves:

    1. Price is the best, because only at the END of the cycle can the replacement generally cause a more significant "clearance" and "closeout" effect on the previous model that is being replaced.

    2. Resale of a particular model cycle will be at its highest in the last and most recent year. Coupling this with the best acquisition price as mentioned in number one, leaves a compelling financial incentive to buy at the END of the cycle.

    3. Most ALL of the improvements, fixes, and latest options that were made for a particular model generally find themselves in the FINAL model year.

    4. The appearance in the FINAL model year of a cycle generally gets its ultimate and highest level of "tweaking" . . . usually making it the best-looking on the exterior AND interior.

    While all of these things do not always happen as a rule, enough of them usually do happen, and often in combination, to warrant purchasing the last vehicles in a production cycle.

    That's how I see it.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I agree with that, but only if and I mean only if:

    You have to be absolutely sure that you do not fall in love with the replacement model to the point that you will get buyer's remorse over the previous model.

    Then yes by all means the last year of production is the best time to buy. There have been serveral Mercedes model change overs I felt this way about over the years.

  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    I bought the S430 4 Matic. I didn't like the look of the S550 at all. It just didn't do it for me. I didn't bother driving it because the shape and instrument cluster put me off. I drove the CLS too, but opted for the S Class because it had 4 Matic and Pre-Safe. CLS is a pretty car, but not practical for me.

    I realize that this car will not be as reliable as my Lexus cars, but I also think it will not strand me by the side of the road either. When I first drove the S430 I couldn't tell the difference between this and my Lexus. My son told me, "You're driving it too slow!" (I was doing only 50 MPH on the highway). So I took it up to 75 MPH and the salesman activated the Sport 2 Mode on the Airmatic..Big Difference! Airmatic is a nice tool, but I hope it doesn't break anytime soon!

    I also noted that Mercedes has all sorts of interesting features. They have this brand new nanotech paint that apparently is 40% more scratch resistant than other cars. It's been around since 2005. What is a dual circuit braking system? I also didn't know it has a single CD slot in the front in addition to the 6 CD changer in the back. It has a real time Tire Pressure Monitor and Oil Analysis monitor. I gave up Bluetooth, but the salesman told me Mercedes will offer an upgrade for pre 07 cars soon for about $225. I wanted the wooden steering wheel, but that was 1K extra. I passed on that one.

    This car is a good product, and the dealership is even better than my Lexus one. I had a much better experience with this Mercedes dealer than I've had with the Lexus dealers here. It might just be a regional thing, but they really go out of their way to make you happy. The salesman insisted that my family relax, brought me and my wife coffee, and refused to let me test drive the S Class demo until he had it washed and vacuumed. He pulled out a S430, S350, and CLS 500 for me to drive. I'm very happy with the experience.

    At the end, the GM of the dealership came out and shook my hand and said, "Congratulations, and Welcome to Mercedes Benz." No one at Lexus has ever welcomed me before. Yes, I realize this is part of what you pay for, but everything they did had a classy touch to it. I've been really ticked off with the Lexus dealer's Service Department, so I decided that it was worth it.

    My son wanted to buy me the S350 for my birthday. Since I picked the S430 he insisted that he pay half. I said no, but he took my credit card away and placed the deposit on the car. How about that? I had no idea he's been cooking this plan up for over a year. I turn 61 in two weeks, so it's a birthday present from him.

    My son negotiated the whole deal. He got 10K off MSRP plus full Kelley trade in value for my car ($48K) plus all scheduled maintenance paid for 39 months. The trade in was the sticking point. We couldn't hold for 49-50K because their own Lexus dealer had a similar car to mine on sale for $53K. I know their profit margin is around 7K and I know the residual of this car is falling because of the impending release of the LS460. I only paid $55K for it anyway, so a 7K hit for 15 months is fair. It did some some scratches that needed to be touched up too.

    I get the car tomorrow, for the first time I'm very excited. The car is this Pewter color over Charcoal. At least to me, it looks amazing. I'd seen the same car in Dubai and few years ago and was blown away.

    I'm not sure what forum I should be posting in now. Do I get to post in both Lexus and Mercedes ones?

    Thanks to everyone for their comments!
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    What is a dual circuit braking system?


    Most all recent vehicles of all brands at all price points have this feature.

    Basically, the brake circuit is divided into two zones, so that in the event of one's failure, there is still adequate braking with the second.

    Specifically, the zones are often diagonal, with the left front linked to the right rear, and then the right front linked to the left rear.

    There are versions that do a three-wheel split by linking the front left with BOTH of the rears, and the front right with BOTH of the rears.

    I am not certain if any of the systems use a four over four, but the answer to your question is clear enough that there is a split zone of one type or another to offer a greater degree of safety.

    BTW, dual-circuit braking is not ABS, which is an additional anti-lock braking system feature that has been around in most vehicles for quite some time also.

    Even the handy tire-pressure monitor and oil useage monitor features are presenting themselves in all types of cars at all price points lately.

    Your new car sounds terrific, and I just know you will enjoy it for many years. You will never forget the wonderful way your son celebrated your 61st birthday!! You are very blessed!!

    OH! . . . before I forget . . . Happy Birthday!

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Congratulations!! (Where do I get a son like that ... :blush: )

    You are welcome to post in both of those discussions, this one and every other one you find interesting. ;)
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I forgot, back in the day, my walkarounds also included a mention of the dual circuit braking, so it's not just luxury cars that have the feature!

    I thought he was referring to the elctronic brake-by-wire, introduced in the E-Class when it was launched, accompanied by conventional braking systems.

    Mercedes was catching some flak for the totally artificial, on/off, brake feel the electronic brakes provided, virtually preventing a dignified roll to a halt. :mad:

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Congrats and enjoy.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    SV - Glad to see someone as impulsive as me though I'm more of a sucker for early adoption of electronics. Best of luck with the S430.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Congrats on the S430. I'm sure you'll enjoy it, maybe even more than your outgoing LS.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Wow, I don't know what to say! :D :surprise:

    Congrats on the new S430!

    I really believe that a Mercedes dealer will do whatever it takes to win over (or back) a Lexus customer, so I would have expected the experience to be what you described. Then again a proper Benz dealer should treat all their customers like that.

    What did you think of the CLS500?

    Pewter of Charcoal is on the best color combos on the W220 S-Class. I can't wait to read about your experiences with this car say in a month of so from now. Hopefully the car will live up to first-class sales experience.

    I still can't believe it!!!

    Oh, lastly you must post here and in Mercedes only forums from now! Nah, I'm sure some of the Lexus guys will be curious about your experience in leaving them.

  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Congrats, Sam. Hope it meets all your expectations.

    It wasn't clear from your post whether you purchased it outright or leased it (you mentioned something about 39 months but perhaps that was the time for the prepaid maintenance). If purchased, what is your expectation for length of time holding onto it? Will you risk holding it post-warranty expiration?

    I think you may have set the record for the shortest ownership of an LS; there was, I think, one Edmunds poster who sold his LS in less than a year and bought an Infiniti M45.
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Hi Everyone,
    Thank you all for your messages. We bought the car outright. They threw in scheduled maintenance as part of the deal. Apparently the dealer had a special offer for this weekend only.

    Actually, the quality of the sales team was demonstrated yesterday. I always think that people show their true colors when they are under fire.

    The Salesman called my son and told him that the car they had found for me had 600 miles on the clock. They offered us three options: 1) They would find us a new one at the same price 2) Bring it on a flatbed truck to avoid racking up any more miles 3) Offer us some sort of extras to make up for the whole issue.

    They called him as soon as they found out about the car. They had to get it from another dealership so they didn't know the specifics until yesterday. I was upset, but by the time I got to the dealership the manager came out and apologized and immediately told me they were bringing a brand new car Pewter S430 4 Matic from Virginia for me. I didn't know what to say. I was impressed because they were proactive in trying to find a solution for me. I'll be writing a letter of thanks to their owner once I take delivery of the car.

    The CLS 500 was a very pretty car. It was all about style. The roof line was a little too low for my likes. It was fun to drive but didn't score well on being practical. It also lacked the ever important 4 Matic feature.

    I plan to keep this car for a long time. Hopefully it will not cause me any problems. After looking at pictures of the LS460 and seeing the S550 I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything. The '06 had enough toys for me, and I hope their last year of production will be the most reliable. In addition, there are several reputable independant mechanics who fix MB cars near Boston.

    My son has spent a few thousand dollars bringing up my 1992 LS400 to brand new condition. I can't believe how good it looks now. The LS400 will be my primary backup should the Mercedes go down. So I'll have the best of both worlds: The reliability of a Lexus LS and the style and driving dynamics of a Mercedes.

    So why did I trade my LS430? It just didn't do it for me. It's got all sorts of really high tech gear. The NAV, Bluetooth, and Backup camera are great. But the interior console looked bulky and some of the trim looked cheap. It also lacked some of the safety features the S Class had like Pre Safe standard. The S Class just drove like a tank. My son says it's pretty manuverable with the Airmatic tuned to sport. My chief complaint about the LS cars is that they had the power to get to 100+ MPH but it didn't "sit" well on the road at that speed. The S430 seemed to be better. Also I found out that Mercedes has a module to upgrade their cars to Bluetooth for $350.

    Like I said last year I wanted to buy the S430 but it was just out of my range. Since I'm "old" spending an extra 20K on a car would not have been a wise decision with retirement looming. It seems silly to be caught up over a car, but it was a lifelong ambition to own a Mercedes. I've liked them since I was a student in England during the 1960's. Everytime I wanted to buy one, something else would come up, or it simply would be too expensive.

    After last year I had accepted that I probably wouldn't be able to buy one. My son completely suprised me on Saturday when he took me to the Mercedes dealer instead of Home Depot (That's where he told me we were going). I can't wait to drive it!

    I'll keep posting in both forums. I'm interested to hear what people think of the LS460. I really would have bought the 460 but something was lost in the design from concept to production. It's nice, but not eye catching like the old S Class is either.

  • carnaughtcarnaught 'zonaPosts: 2,327
    Well, congrats on buying (leasing?) one of the best looking luxury cars in our time. My experience with both Mercedes and Lexus has been great and hopefully your experience with Mercedes will be as well.

    I can relate to your feelings about the LS430. I owned the Lexus SC430 coupe and although the interior and reliability were the best in the business, the car was simply no fun to drive. It basically felt "numb". When I traded it for the "03 Mercedes E, I enjoyed the latter even more and it was much more engaging to drive, was vault-like in its feel, more confidence inspiring and reliable.

    Sam, hope you have many safe miles of motoring in your Mercedes and please keep us informed about your ownership experience.

    (As you can deduce, I who am of late mostly mute on these boards, one who represents the "Switzerland" in the Lexus vs. Mercedes debate.)
  • rayngrayng Posts: 70
    Congrats, Sam. Enjoy your beautiful new ride. Did you get the extended maintenance contract? If so how much? Did the salesman let you go 100+ mph on the test drive? I also admire the relationship you have with your son. It's great to see that he's grateful for the sacrifices you made over the years.
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    I'm somewhat in the middle as well. I still have my 1992 LS400 which has faithfully served us for 14 years. It still is a wonderful car. I've said this before and I'll say it again: Lexus has lost its way to some extent with these newer cars.

    There is too much focus on gimmicks and not enough on the service and quality. The design of my LS430 is disappointing. The switches feel cheap and lack the built to last feeling my 1992 still has. The paint job is one of the worst I've seen. Every time I wash it I see new scratches. All of this on a car that only has 7100 miles and it faithfully polished and waxed 4 times a year!

    I've had many Lexus mechanics lament the fact that they aren't built like they used to be. The Head Mechanic at my dealer told me the original LS400's are from the "Golden Age" and that I should not get rid of it. (He's an honest guy, fixed the car perfectly when he got a shot at it).

    The Service Department experience that my son and I have had is appalling. I've never had to threaten to sue any car dealer for a clear attempt at fraud. The Service Dept manager even admitted that there are problems. The Lexus dealerships in Boston seem to have this arrogance that wasn't there when I bought my first LS400. It's like they are doing you a favor to fix your car! It's gotten so bad that only the Head Mechanic is allowed to touch my LS400 because the Service Manager doesn't trust anyone else!

    The experience I had at Mercedes yesterday was the best I've had in a long while. They were upfront and honest about the mileage of the car and clearly had developed an action plan before calling me. They made every effort to meet my needs and apologized. As I said in an earlier post they wouldn't even let my son drive the S430 until it was washed and vacuumed.

    I had a problem with a 98 LS400 CPO and the dealership (Ironically owned by the same person) fought me tooth and nail until I threatened them with Legal Action. Once the Corporate Offices found out about it they did take proper action and gave me my '02 LS430 at cost. The Lexus Customer Service is no better, they always give the same excuse "The Dealers are independant of us."

    I fully expect my S430 NOT to be as reliable as my Lexus cars. But..I'm trading that for better styling, service,and a car that has the presence of a battleship. One drive in the S430 had me feeling like I was driving a tank.

    Lexus claimed that the 2007 LS460 would be like 1989 all over again. Frankly I don't think there is even a comparison. Much like my new S Class my '92 LS400 is here to stay.

    Thanks for your message! Actually the maintenance is included for "Free" for the next 39 months. It was part of the dealer's promotion for this past weekend. I actually drove the car at 40 MPH and remarked there was zero difference between my Lexus and this car. My son interupted and said, "Even a Corolla will drive well at 40 MPH Drive faster!" He took the wheel and took it up to 75-85 MPH and activated the Airmatic Sport mode. I noticed the difference immediately. I happy with the car (get it on Saturday) but I hope it doesn't suffer from any gremlins! I have my LS400 just in case it does!

  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I have to agree with you on the driving dynamics of the LS. The car is capable of speeds 100+, but once there it is way too floaty and disconnected to be considered a true autobahn-cruiser. This is even the case with the "supposed" Euro-suspension option that includes firmer dampers and bigger wheels. The suspension is just to soggy.

    The Mercedes S splits the difference. It is firm at high speeds(in which it needs to be) while retaining that good ol' pillowy ride on city streets. I'm coming from an S65 AMG, the king of the S cars, and even it was compliant enough for daily operations. Mercedes is one of the best when it comes to suspension tuning. I sold the S65 for an Audi A8 W-12 and it too has the "german" suspenion. Bimmers, Mercedes, and Audi's are built to stay glued to the road.

    I feel your S430 will be so great that you'll all but forget about the LS, especially in the fun-to-drive department.

    P.S.-I'm glad to see that you got the extended warranty because this car, like ALL European makes, do have their quibbles, no matter the nameplate.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    I'm glad to see that you got the extended warranty because this car, like ALL European makes, do have their quibbles, no matter the nameplate.

    Actually, Sam didn't say anything about getting an extended warranty, just free maintenance for 39 months. But he did say he intends to own it for a "long time". That's frankly the only thing that concerns me about this transaction. Of course, we won't know how the long-term reliability of the '06 S will be for another few years, but I have not seen anything that convinces me that the recent Ses are significantly more reliable than the '00-'04 W220s have been. Much of the problems experienced were in design, not in final fit and finish. If anything, I'm hoping that the new design of the '07 W221 (supposedly with very few parts carried over from the previous model) would lead to the turnaround of MB on its reliability issues.

    I truly worry that a long-time Lexus owner who "buys and holds" an S may be setting themselves up for a disappointment. If I were going to get an W220 S at this point, I would have to bite the bullet and lease it with the intent to give it back before the warranty ran out. Unlike an LS, I really can't imagine trying to maintain one without a warranty. Before the original warranty runs out, if you plan to keep the car, Sam please go and get an extended warranty!
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    "Unlike an LS, I really can't imagine trying to maintain one without a warranty."

    Gary, I hate to tell you, but ANY luxury car is hard to maintain after the warranty is up. If I read your post correctly, and forgive me if I did, but you implied that it is easier to maintain an LS out-of-warranty v. an S. The astronomical repair prices on each are enough to split a family apart. The LS is no exception on this. Even it has problems here there, albeit less reported than on the European makes, but they are ever present. MY '98 LS actually costed more to maintain than my '01 S500 required, and the '01's were supposedly a bad year. I got 49,000 problem-free miles out of mine before I stepped up to the S65 AMG. Buying any car that has more gadgets than you'll ever know is taking a big gamble in itself. If you were to buy a LS430 with the Ultra Luxury package(13k in options), which comes with everything including the kitchen sink, then you will undoubtly experience failure one way or the other.

    Sam, sorry for the mis-quote, but please follow Gary's
    advice and purchase the extended coeverage as even tho this is a new car, you plan to keep it for a while, so the extra coverage will give you assurance for as long as it lasts.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    No, you didn't misread me. I maintain that there are plenty of statistics to show the LS has been more reliable than the W220 S, your own experience notwithstanding. Of course, replacement parts for any of these cars are expensive, but the question is how often you will need to replace them.

    But that doesn't mean that all Ses fall apart and all LSes last forever with no repairs. And it certainly doesn't mean that the S isn't a wonderful car to drive.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Point well taken, altho there is suffcient evidence that suggests that Japanese auto parts CAN be double the price of a comparable American/Euro make.

    No matter the type of car, it's best to set aside a pre-determined amount of funds to take care of future issues if the owner's intent is to keep the car for a elongated period time, 7-8 years maybe.

    Yes, there are numerous reports and publications that state the LS400/430 has been a exemplary model of refinement/quality/reliablity, however in this country, people are so caught up with image that it seems that it doesn't matter that Toyota has the knowledge to create such a reliable machine, rather they'd like to drive the premiere "3-pointed star" rather than the "L" and at one point I was one of them. And this is the main source behind the S's stellar and virtually untouchable resale value, especially the S600 and AMG models.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    MB again had atrocious ratings in the recent Consumer Reports auto issue, hitting rock bottom among all mfrs in some areas.

    I will respectfully disagree with SV on his comments about LS build quality. I've been there since 95 and the current car is as good or better across the board in my opinion, and surveys bear that out.

    bikhemi - maybe the S600 and amg S-class models have held well but the plethora of S-class cars sold in my neck of the woods, S430's and S500's, have poor resale value these days when you look at percentage of original MSRP retained.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Sam, congratulations on your purchase and your great family. I'm happy that the dealership treated you well. I'm convinced that one strong reason why people buy these marques is the superior customer service. The HELM marque sales managers that don't believe this probably think that sales just involves catching people in a vulnerable moment, or on impulse, or with a "deal". This misperception gets reinforced because it is easier to catch people on a whim or with a "deal" than it is easier to have processes in place (starting with a stable sales force) to deliver consistently superior customer service.

    Incidentally who is the Boston area MB dealer? When I get a little older (I'm 61 and loving my Porsche) and want to ease into an S Class to take that oneway trip down I95 to FL, I'd like to call them.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    S430's and S500's, have poor resale value these days when you look at percentage of original MSRP retained.

    If I am mistaken, I apologize, but it seems to me that you are wrong when you say the S-Class has poor resale value. Here's why I think you may be wrong about that.

    The S-Class seems to be fairly average in resale and notice that the Lexus LS is in the same category and is NOT better than the S-Class.

    I'm just trying to keep the record straight, my friend.

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I go by actual sales that are occurring not projections. We've been down that road too often to re-visit it again on this board.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Most "stripped" used S430's can be had for a fairly reasonable price as it is the "value leader" of the S family. However, a fully-loaded S500 with the Expresso Designo PKG. will still set you back a pretty penny, especially one with low miles. I used Edmunds, Autotrader, ALG, among others to decipher the differences.

    It still has to be said that the S-Class M-B is one of those cars that will retain it's value better than most cars in it's class. This is aside to quality and reliability problems. Jag's have more quality problems than Benzes(despite the Ford influence) but they typically lose 28% of their value in the first 2 years compared to just 14% for the S.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a M-B enthusiast. I love all things German. I'm driving an Audi A8 W-12(a fantastic car) right now and will be for a while. But it has to be said that the S is the ultimate in this stable of luxury cars, for better or worse.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I agree, my '01 seems just as bullet proof now as my '96 did. I also have not gotten the impression that the quality of the switchgear or anything else about Lexus interiors has in any way deteriorated. If anything I'd say its the opposite. Here's a '96 like my old one


    And here's from an '05. Its absolutely no contest, and absolutely no way I'd go back to a '96. And even more so than the LS, Lexus' other car's interiors have gotten amazingly better. Just compare the old RX to the new one, or the old SC to the new one.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The S Class just drove like a tank. My son says it's pretty manuverable with the Airmatic tuned to sport. My chief complaint about the LS cars is that they had the power to get to 100+ MPH but it didn't "sit" well on the road at that speed. The S430 seemed to be better.

    Well what you said about the Benz's dynamics is what I've been saying all along. This is true of all high-end German cars and most German cars in general. It is certainly true of all BMW, MB and most Audi cars.

    I must say I'm in a state of disbelief about some of your other comments on the LS430! I wouldn't say it looked cheap, it just never had any style inside or out. Lexus always tries way to hard when it comes to interior style, only to come up short. The LS430 is a giant Toyota in design, theme and feel, but well made. Its either no style or "borrowed" themes from other cars. I mean those gearshifts in the above pics are straight out of an early 80's Benz!

    I sure hope the Benz doesn't make you regret these last few posts!

  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Hi Everyone,
    I've spoken to many Lexus mechanics who feel the same exact way I do about these cars. Look at the window switches for example, and even the cluster dimmer switch.

    On the original LS400 the plastic was much thicker in these places. The Steering Column had a switch to turn off the auto retract as well. The side mirrors on the 92 LS are much thicker than the ones on the later cars. The wiper and turning signal stalks had a much better feel on them in the original car. It just feels cheap on the new LS cars. Everything on my 1992 LS has this "Built to last forever feel" I'm not saying a new LS will fall apart, but isn't built to that standard.

    The design of the original LS still looks good today. Mercedes derivative or not, it still has a classic look to it. The interior cluster has a far more sleeker design to it than my new LS430's. While functional, the new LS430's dashboard design is clunky. The old LS400 has a much sleeker design to it.

    Lexus used to build some timeless classics, such as the original LS, SC400, and even ES300. I don't see that anymore. My LS430 already has this "old" look to it, whereas carmakers such as Audi have cars that will always look good. People still think my '92 LS400 is a new car. They think I'm lying when I tell them it's 14 yrs old.

    My 1992 LS sits right next to my 2005 LS430, so it's easy for me to make the comparisons. Most of the posters here trade every few years. I like to keep my cars beyond 5+ yrs.

    I firmly believe that the 2005 will not hold up as well as the 1992 has. In my '02 I had to replace the rain sensor three times, and replace the steering column all under warranty. The 1998 CPO used to stall and the cluster would blink intermittently.

    I agree with all your comments about the extended warranty. I'll definitely get one should I choose to keep it beyond the 4 yr 50K warranty. I think this is true for any HELM.

    Do I think the S Class will be as reliable as my Lexus? No. As long as it isn't a lemon, I think the experience will be worth it.

    What really put me off about Lexus is their customer service. My experience with their Service Dept has been horrendous. Never in my life, have I had to micromanage the Service of my car, especially when I'm paying $100/hr!

    My Mercedes Dealer is Chambers Motorcars of Somerville, MA. They have done a fantastic job so far. I can't comment on their Service Department, but I will in time.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Again, I have to disagree. While you've had problems with your recent cars, you are definitely the exception. Both my '01 LS and my wife's '01 RX have been perfect. If your CPO car was stalling, it sounds like they sold you a lemon. I do agree that your Lexus dealer is perhaps not the greatest. I really have to disagree about the interiors though. Look at the following pictures.

    At a glance, which car are they from? In the early '90s, Lexus came up with one interior design, which they copied and pastied with very slightly different switchgear into each car. They were almost entirely plastic and vinyl, and not even on the same planet as the entry level ES350 in terms of design and quality.
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