High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • jeskjesk Member Posts: 13
    How can you afford all those cars when your spelling and grammar resemble that of a 4th grader?
  • hello26hello26 Member Posts: 62
    I agree with what you said except I do know that 30 days with a car is long enough for me to know.
    This is only recently, however. Even a year ago
    I wasn't as good at it and I've driven a lot.
    By the way, I've asked you about ES seats. I wasn't being sarcastic. I didn't mean to be sarcastic, anyway. So many people hate ES seats and ergonomics and for good reasons. I was wondering if you or your wife had any issues with them. It's ok you don't have to tell me:)

    jesk,
    Who died and made you the spellcheck police.
  • 2jags22jags2 Member Posts: 4
    i've owned 2 lexuses, which were nice ,but then again they are what they are-- fancy toyotas.you are absolutely right ,tough, they are all great cars. the true luxury high end are mb ,jaguar, and maybe bmw.all the rest , including audi( of which i owned an a6 and an a4--terrible experience with both!!!!!), lexus, infinty, acura , are all fancy immitations of the aforementioned three.
    i now own 2 '00 jags and really and truly enjoy their originallity, their design, and their performance.
  • hello26hello26 Member Posts: 62
    Survey says zero. Audi is not an imitation.
    Audis stick to the road and track a line better than a Mercedes (by far). The Quattro system
    is the premier AWD system. No serious person
    would think an Audi was an imitation MB (imition of 4matic? no), Jag (get real), or BMW (RWD and totally different philosophy). So you had bad experiences with Audi. Lots of people do.
  • quattro_pearlquattro_pearl Member Posts: 51
    VW didn't make them. Toyota made Lexus, Honda made Acura, Nissan made Infiniti
  • quattro_pearlquattro_pearl Member Posts: 51
    Now everyone wants to make an AWD product, who's imitating again?
  • scongroscongro Member Posts: 80
    Lexus sold 2,400 less cars than Mercedes-Benz. Imitation my A#$.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    What does sales success have to do with the way Lexus obviously copies every styling move Mercedes makes? They even changed their V8 engine displacement so that now they have a "430" badged car too. Ridiculous. Yes they are very successful car, but they are imitation Benz, period. Nothing about their 4-doors have ever been original.

    M
  • aimanaiman Member Posts: 61
    While Lexus is no pioneer in styling, didn't they come out with the idea with luminated gauge and LED (?) read outs on the center console? When the LS400 first came out everybody else, including MB and BMW, were still using rotary knobs for the a/c. Now everybody goes "digital" with their interior like Lexus. I think they set the benchmark for smooth and quietness for luxury cars.
  • scongroscongro Member Posts: 80
    True, sales and imitation have little to do with each other. I'm not getting into the debate over imitation, I think we all know what my opinion is, and it differs from yours, that's fine. I was just saying that Lexus is doing something right.

    BTW, would it really make you feel better if Lexus was releasing a LS 440 or a LS 420 in 2001?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I think they did come out with those gauges first, but I've seen that argued so much I can't remember who did it first now.


    scongro,

    I would rather it stayed LS400, people won't confuse that with those "430" badged cars from you know who.

    M
  • hello26hello26 Member Posts: 62
    This is from ctic's Audi Luxury car or NOT! topic:

    91 of 102: Actually, "ctic" (autobahner1) Mon 21 Jun '99 (02:47 PM)

    You might also find it educational to research the
    proud history of what is currently known as Audi.
    You would find that Auto Union, DKW, and NSU all
    trace their roots to the earliest automotive days.
    Actually, to my knowledge, each of those makes
    produced race winning automobiles before BMW
    existed as a car company.

    M, The Lexus SC is sufficiently original :)
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Do you mean the current SC or the upcoming one, because the new SC430 is not original at all.

    M
  • hello26hello26 Member Posts: 62
    Lexus - SC400 + LS430 - LS400 + IS = 0
  • quattro_pearlquattro_pearl Member Posts: 51
    research, what? VW didn't make Audi. Toyota made
    Lexus, Nissan made
    Infiniti, Honda made Acura
  • 2jags22jags2 Member Posts: 4
    the only reason thatlexus sells so many cars is simply price.it's designed to cater to the people who simply cannot afford real high-end cars.don't get me wrong, toyota makes good cars ,including the lexus.btw, in japan, there are no lexus, or infinty, or acura---there it's toyota gs 300, or nissan i30and so on. only in status-hungry america, we must put icons on cars ,in order to announce--"we have arrived".
    drive a jag ,and you'll understand why it being imitated so much
  • ferarri11ferarri11 Member Posts: 91
    yes!!!Audi was a separate company for 50 years before Volkswagen bought them. and they have their own unique history and qualities
  • ferarri11ferarri11 Member Posts: 91
    actually in japan, there is no GS 300, it is the Aristos and the LS 400 is the Celsior and the Q45 is the Cima...I dont think jag gets copied very much except the XJ grill in the Q45 and Buicks, because other designers end up screwing up the car so they abandon that design and make them look like a mercedes (lexus). no japanese car has successfully copied Jag and probably never will. it is also silly to see camry parts in the LS 400, even though they are "good" parts, you still expect better.
  • quattro_pearlquattro_pearl Member Posts: 51
    260e, 300e, 400e, 500e, e320, e420, e430, e55, s300, s320, s420, maybe s430, s500, s560, s600 and don't get me started on the, C, ML, SL, ok MERC1 take over
  • scongroscongro Member Posts: 80
    Mercedes-Benz initiated a Displacement-Badging system, but in 1994, so the "e320, e420, e430, e55, s300, s320, s420, maybe s430, s500, s560, s600 and don't get me started on the, C, ML, SL" don't count.

    The 300e switched to a 3.2L engine in 1993, but retained the "300" part of the name, and the 400e NEVER had a 4.0L V8 engine.

    As you can see, the Mercedes-Benz model line roughly followed displacement-badging, but not to the letter. They didn't change to strictly following this system until 1994.

    Mercedes-Benz will also break from this system in 2001, when the V12 engine returns. The car will be called the S600, but have a 5.8L engine. Personally, I think this is a good thing; I think S580 sounds retarted.

    What I was getting at in my post was that Lexus was the first to use the displacement-badging system, and stick to it 100%.

    BTW, since I can smell all of you Mercedes-Benz lovers heating up, I am not saying that Mercedes-Benz copied the Lexus system.
  • quattro_pearlquattro_pearl Member Posts: 51
    MB and BMW started it overall....PERIOD Not Lexus, Infiniti, or Acura
  • scongroscongro Member Posts: 80
    Not being picky. Just the facts, man.
  • hello26hello26 Member Posts: 62
    Whoever used it first it is a mistake. It's too bright.

    Who imitates a Jaguar except Jaguar?
  • hello26hello26 Member Posts: 62
    There are no Camry parts in an LS400. Have you driven one? There are 24% Camry parts in an ES300.

    Regarding the only reason people drive Lexus is because it is cheap and imitation:

    1. People who care about being cheap don't buy 55k cars.

    2. Lexus build quality has been industry standard for 10 years. All the complaining about
    Lexus copying is great but Mercedes should copy
    Lexus build quality (not going to happen).
  • quattro_pearlquattro_pearl Member Posts: 51
    but not build quality. No magazines say, WOW that car was as solid as a Lexus or the interior reminded me of a Lexus.
  • scongroscongro Member Posts: 80
    2.5TL
    3.2TL

    Sorry!
  • scongroscongro Member Posts: 80
    QX4

    Very Sorry!
  • ferarri11ferarri11 Member Posts: 91
    look closely at some secondary controls like the sider mirror adjusters, they are the same in the camry , it is a small item. there are other minor pieces too, just look at the items not used but a few times.
  • ferarri11ferarri11 Member Posts: 91
    i think vacuum luminscent gauges appeared on the first LS 400 in 1990. the continental copied it after. the GS uses a different style, lit in greenish blue (too bad the color doesnt match the lighting of the radio and AC controls). i think these gauges are lexus's first original idea (not knocking, it appeared on the first car). they look great but can burn out, leaving you guessing your speed. but old mercedes oftentimes didnt have lights in the gauge cluster anyways.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    You guys are at it again I see. Lexus didn't start a thing when it comes to badging. Mercedes was always used that system on their cars. The 420SEL, 560SEL all has engines of that displacement before a marketing person ever came up with the name "Lexus", which they had to enter a court room to keep. Mercedes was first, period. Before the Japanese even got the idea to use "numbers" for anything. Nobody would argue against Lexus being a good car, but to try and say they innovated anything is just plain incorrect.

    M
  • 2jags22jags2 Member Posts: 4
    cannot agree more. i drove 2 lexuses, and they are good cars(see my last posting), but there is nothing original about them.another true statement, is that nobody can imitate a jag, execpt a jag.
    btw, the one thing that pi#$$$ me off was the toyota logo on the lexis'windshield ......for that kind of money, cann't they at least stamp a "lexus"logo?????????????????
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Buick has disgraced themselves with downright horrible Jaguar imitations. To me Jaguar is a original as original gets.

    M
  • hello26hello26 Member Posts: 62
    M,

    Jaguar introduced a retro Jaguar sedan, therfore a copy. And the mechanicals are made by Ford?
    This is original to you?

    In terms of not introducing anything, you and I spend, perhaps, too much time on design. Toyota is one of the premier engineering companies in the world.

    In terms of build quality, from a German car perspective (and that's my state of mind this summer), an LS400 doesn't have vault like solidity. On the road, it is competent, but it's no Audi. Build quality, however, refers to the
    build quality of the entire car, the assembly, the parts from suppliers, the electrical system, everything. LS400 is smooth enough for you, old man, as Edmunds would say :)
  • hello26hello26 Member Posts: 62
    What Buick are you talking about?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Stylewise, heritage and lineage. Now a new chapter is being written. The S-Type is still very much original, if not pure Jaguar.
    Toyota is a good engineering company, but styling wise they can't produce a good looking car, much less a lust object. Buicks: LeSabre, awful, Park Avenue, not as awful, Rivera undecided, all Jaguar wannabe look-o-likes.

    M
  • ferarri11ferarri11 Member Posts: 91
    the S type only shares the platform and some control bits with the Lincoln LS. both are excellent designs and i challenge you to really be able to tell a jag platform from a merc or lexus. as long as they are rigid an constructed well it really doesnt matter. the s type is well constructed ( Lincoln LS was crashed in the IIHS test and got a good rating). platform sharing is quite commone, check the TT and Golf and Bug. the platform isnt really the issue, it is the tuning of the suspension and the style that matters most, and the S type is excellent.
  • quattro_pearlquattro_pearl Member Posts: 51
    say that the S80, LS, and Stype didn't feel as stiff as the Audi, BMW, or Lexus in their last compare of 40k cars? Same for the R&T compare of V8's. www.caranddriver.com
    www.roadandtrack.com
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Please remember, the only reason Lexus had to go to court to keep the name was because of the sheer stupidity of Lexis (legal research) suing them. Apparently Lexis thought that people would confuse Lexus with Lexis (are you following this? I am re-reading it again to keep my company spellings straight) as though a car will be confused with a legal research company. The suit was asinine, which is why Lexus won and Lexis lost. Yes, spellings are correct. Whew!
  • hello26hello26 Member Posts: 62
    quattro pearl,
    Aren't there meaurements for that type of rigidity?

    ferrari11,
    I think platform sharing is great. I've been through these issues with SAAB.

    M,
    ? I've driven a Riviera believe it or not but
    I can't remember it looking like a Jaguar or not.
    The other cars you mention look like Buicks to me.
    And again I disagree. The current Lexus SC is a beautiful design.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I know what happened with the name, the point being that the name was plucked out of the air, not from heritage like others. I agree that the lawsuit was stupid. Nobody even heard of Lexis before then.

    Hello26,

    The Park Ave and LeSabre both tried to look like Jaguars. The current WAS (?) a beautiful design, until they added a grille and side sills in 1997, that totally ruined it.

    M
  • hello26hello26 Member Posts: 62
    M,
    You wrote: ...the name [Lexus] was plucked out of the air, not from heritage like the others.
    I hate to be the one to bring this up but
    the name "Mercedes" was someone or other's daughter, and was chosen for no reason other than marketing.
  • quattro_pearlquattro_pearl Member Posts: 51
    Lexus took Lincoln to court about the LS signature. They thought ppl would actaully get it confused.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    It still has more behind it than the name Lexus. Everyone knows the story as to why her name was used. He wanted to race Gotlieb Daimler's cars under the name Mr.Mercedes, hence his daughter's name. There is nobody names Lexus. There are some Alexis' in the world, but just plain Lexus, I seriously doubt it, and if it were somebody named that car has nothing to do with them. The name Lexus was thought of during a Toyota board meeting. No heritage at all. Glad you brought it up, you proved my point for me, thanks.

    M
  • ferarri11ferarri11 Member Posts: 91
    the lincoln LS got a good rating in the offcenter crash tests,beating my beloved A6, the GS series Lexus and the MB E class which got acceptable ratings. to me this seems more useful than "solidity". i dont know what goes into the solid feeling other than weight and suspension components. do you? it is dissapointing to know that the solid cars are not as safe in this test as the others. (i know a single test cannot determine crashworhiness, but it is a good determination of front end collisions). i would assume the LS and S type perform in a similar manner. what surprises me most about the rigidity issue is the A6. the passat, which shares the platform performed better. this seems like an oversight on Audis part, since crashworthiness is very important to luxury car buyers. (the old XJs had among the lowest death rates of any car, without any modern safety features) i still like the Audi, but the solidity the magazines favor seem to be created independent of the platform
  • ferarri11ferarri11 Member Posts: 91
    i think the park avenue tries to be a gigantic jaguar, with the gentle rise at the rear to the trunk and the jag style grille. it isnt horrible and looks better than all the other big three large cars.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    You have a point. Nobody ever heard of Lexis, the legal research company, until the lawsuit. This may be the first time that paying legal fees to lawyers was the cheaper alternative to the cost of advertising Lexis. LOL 0:)
  • ferarri11ferarri11 Member Posts: 91
    it is funny though, that lexus took lincoln to court because they called the car the LS6 and LS8, and they dropped the numbers, to LS. i dont know too many LS 400 owners, but they refer to their cars as the LS. this seems much more confusing since lexus had the courts decide to call the Lincoln LS the LS and not LS8. even lexus commercials call the LS 400 the LS. and they forced another company to name their cheaper car the same name. they really are trivial at least, stupid at most.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I never thought of that. People do say they have an LS whether it be Linc or Lex. Who'd a thunk it?

    M
  • kappamankappaman Member Posts: 47
    I've been pretty busy lately working on my Masters degree.

    Jesk,
    I have a Bachelor degree in business from the University of South Florida and I'm presently working on my Masters. My grammar is sometimes questionable I'm sure. Usually I'm typing fast and don't proof what I've written. So what? I still have owned all the cars that I've mentioned. And by the way, I just ordered a platnium Rolex today. Player hate on that while you're at it. While you check my spelling, I'll continue living "the good life". Peace, love, and Soooooooooul train.

    Hello26,
    I'm sorry, I thought that I'd answered the ES300 seats question. The ES300 was our first luxury car. I bought it for our first anniversary. Anyway, I can't remember the seats honestly. I was just happy to own a Lexus at the time. We only kept the car for about 9 months because of the air conditioning problems we had, which Lexus refused to fix. We sold the car to a Lexus dealer in Orlando and loss about 3000 dollars. Not a good anniversary gift. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

    2jags2,
    I hope you are enjoying your Jaguars. People always player hate on Jaguars. I see you have already seen that. Beauty is often attacked. Anyway, I've really enjoyed my Jags. They are "crowd pleasers" amost anywhere my wife and I go. I guess you have to own a Jaguar to truly appreciate its charm. No they are not the most technically advanced, but who cares, they are special. Exotic by nature and often leaving people in a state of awe. Good luck with the Jags.

    To all,
    Hope your Fathers day was nice and that you have a happy 4th of July. Be safe.
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