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Any owners in this forum wish to comment on their experience thus far with the S4? Thanks.
OTOH if you're really set on the sedan, the seats do fold down, that should allow for a couple of golf bags easily.
Good luck with the S4, Nickjc, should be a sweet ride.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
After 4 tips in a row (and over 25 Audis in our garage since 1977) I cannot imagine why anyone would not test drive both the 6spd and the tip. And, with MY bias and MY wife's refusal to drive an automatic transmission from any company, I cannot for the life of me imagine what would posses anyone to buy a tip.
But, as noted, this is my bias.
My bet, however, is that most folks don't take long long test drives of both tips and manuals.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I have ridden in taxi-cabs (often Passats, VW's, Audis and/or Mercedes) -- and I would say that at least 80% of them are manuals.
Speaking only personally and not intending to argue, I would say that driving a stick "ain't no thang!" under any circumstances -- and it gets rid of the power sucking attributes of the tiptronic. If you have the DSG or the CVT, well you get a pass from the dreaded tip - lag.
But, even the small cities of Italy have traffic that is worse than NYC -- and it is autos that are rare.
Manuals forever, autos never -- oh, heck, to each his/her own.
My wife drove the car last night and gave the cruelest and unfortunately somewhat accurate assessment of the car: "Chevy Malibu."
I argued "no way" -- but the automatic transmission seems to sap the sport from the car and simultaneously sap confidence from the driver.
Now, in the spirit of full disclosure -- my wife literally HATES automatics and she is currently on her third TT coupe (a 2003 225HP with the 18" wheel and uhp tires); and I am driving a modified 6spd manual allroad (modded by the addition of the A6 sport antiswaybar, lowered suspension and 18" 245 x 45 UHP summer tires).
This A4, sad to report, reminds me more than it should of one of my friend's Aurora with the "autobahn" package (tighter suspension and sport wheels and tires).
After having driven the dynamic new S4, I expected at least some similarity. Perhaps my wife IS right, the transmission makes all the difference in the world -- they are like two completely different cars (the 2 A4's that is).
I had recently driven a 2001 A4 1.8T with the sport package, larger wheel/tire option and stick shift (5spd) -- it, in comparison, was a sports sedan.
As my dear old mom says "to each his/her own" -- but the point is as fine as the A4 in any configuration is, there is a huge driving difference between the tip and stick version.
By the way the 3.0 engine is very nice -- perhaps in this sized car the CVT would have eliminated the issues -- I had been previously driven a thusly configured A6 3.0 and found it to be very nice -- but in the A6 I expected less in terms of sport.
So let me get this straight...she drives the sports car and you drive the station wagon?....what's wrong with this picture.
But, the point is well taken, her TT does, as she says, "hunker" -- at this point, knowing what I know today, my next car will be an S4 (I had an S6 in 1995 and until my allroad it was the best Audi I ever had).
And, I really don't mind the jab -- but Malibu, man that hurt!
But I can totally understand the necessity of the Tip in traffic. Now it is true that traffic in Europe can be as bad as that in Chicago, but heck, they don't get stuck in traffic for 3 hours from home to work and back.
Billy
So, I registered. But I still got the same message when it hit the SAT button on the head unit -- NO SAT RADIO.
On Monday, I took the car to the service department to get the non-working XM feature settled once and for all. It turned out to be a bad connection. The XM module was in the car the whole time, it just wasn't hooked up right.
So now the XM is all activated, and all the channels are downloaded, and I'm happy.
During this service stop, I asked the dealer to reprogram the key fob so that I could lower and raise the windows with a touch of a button, rather than having to turn the key in the door. They said that's no longer possible, because of the way the car is now wired. It's no big deal, but the salesman did tell me it was possible for me to get the key fob customized to do pretty much whatever I wanted, so long as I signed a liability waiver. I wish the salesmen and the service department would get on the same page. The techs were able to program the doors to auto lock (at the relatively fast speed of 15 mph).
I also asked for the alignment to be checked. The service advisor told me it's common for suspension parts and alignment to feel a bit "off" during break-in, and that they would check the alignment during the first regularly scheduled service stop of 10K miles.
On the plus side, the service guys washed and vaccuumed the car. On the minus side, I had to find my own way back to the dealership. This particular dealer (Metro in San Diego) only provides shuttle service when you drop off the car. That seems odd, especially when you consider how much people fork over for an Audi.
I haven't bothered to check recently, but I believe Audi's 6 spd manuals offer two over drive gears (5th and 6th) with 6th gear set up to get every last ounce of MPG's out of the engine.
The 5 spds only have one overdriven gear -- 5th, of course.
The 0-100kph performance is usually available on line (mfgr's data). BTW Audi's data on accelerative times is generally highly believable (as are other German cars) in that they must demonstrate that their cars actually do what they say -- some companies post accelerative data that while apparently accurate happen under such an odd set of circumstances that they are more difficult to repeat.
My point is to suggest that you look at the accelerative times of a 5spd (say an 03 1.8T) and a 6spd (04 1.8T) -- if this is what you meant by performance.
You might also be able to deduce from final drive ratios and gear ratios and engine rpms at speed at least an implied fuel consumption difference -- of course these too are published and most likely not that hard to locate on the Internet.
On an unrelated note, I think I foolishly believed a piece of misinformation from my salesperson. IIRC, he told me auto-dimming exterior rear-view mirrors were part of the Lighting Package I got on my car. Turns out, they're not. You can only get auto-dimming/power folding exterior mirrors on the Premium Pkg that comes with the 3.0. Oh well. At least I'm no longer wondering if the auto-dimming part of my mirrors is on the fritz. The Lighting Package for my A4 DOES have the auto-dimming interior rear-view mirror. But it seems silly to have one auto-dim, and the others not.
Thanks for your feedback.
Like I said, I think that the 6spds have two over drives -- which, is a good thing from the perspectives noted. I have not checked to see if the 6spds are marketed as quicker -- and even if they are, I would want to see the final drive ratio before I attributed that to just the transmission's number of forward gears.
Two overdrives would be welcomed by me since I do a lot of highway driving and the best I've been able to do with a 2.8 car is 26-27 mpg, 25 w Tiptronic.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Even when I'm in sixth gear, I can quickly accelerate from 75 to 90. The car can also cope with the hills on the 5 and 15 freeways in northern San Diego county without downshifting.
The feel of the shifter is okay, I guess. I've occasionally missed a gear in the two months I've had the car. The vague Audi/VW shifters in general do not compare well to the likes of what one finds in an ordinary Honda Civic (which is what I had been driving). The shifter in the TSX was so good, I almost bought it for that one feature alone. But that's a topic for another board.
As far as gas mileage goes, I'm getting right around 30 mpg at 70-75 mph in 6th. I have to drive it gently to get that kind of mileage. If I drive like I really need to be somewehere, my highway mileage will drop to between 26-28. The "second" part of the trip computer (which I have not reset since buying the car) says the combined average MPG so far is 23.5. As is said often in these boards, your mileage may vary.
My A4 brochure shows the 5 sp. 1.8T FrontTrack goes from 0-60 in 7.8 seconds. The 6 sp. 1.8T quattro makes the run in 7.9 seconds. There's a 150 lb. weight difference between the two, so I would think there's some different gearing. It may be difficult to do a real comparison between the five speed and the six speed on the A4 because, according to the brochure, the fiver comes only on the FrontTrack, while the six speed is saved for the quattro.
Even the final drive ratio must be the same, but the 6spd provides a slower engine speed due to its being even taller than 5th gear.
I just started it, but I've got a section on Audi... don't take it too seriously... your insights will be appreciated.
Thanks,
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI
However, the compensation is I have a 2004 A4 quattro 3.0 w/tip and every option except "sport suspension" although it does have the 17" sport wheel/tire option (and delete XM credit). This black beauty has just south of 4,000 miles on the OD.
I get in the car and set things up and pull the lever into "D" and take off. OMG there, immediately is that dreaded tip-lag and I'm still in the freakin' Audi dealer parking lot. Another thing I noted, the transmission seems to have one purpose in life: to be one gear higher than god intended me to be in. Whassssuppppp with that?!?
The car was stone cold silent, the sound system was somewhat of an impovement over my pretty good allroad Bose (the A4 "infotainment" option includes the Bose speaker set up, don't you know).
The handling and the way the thing took railroad tracks and undulating pavement was impressive -- I wondered what the sport suspension would be like, this non-sport version was quite spanky.
One-half mile later, I had (for, uh, er safety reasons, yea that's it) floored the accelerator to see what the 3.0 had in it (the last time I drove one was in an A6 CVT, but that's another story). Suffice it to say, it was no S4 (even no 2.7T S4, but it was pretty peppy -- especially considering the fact that the tiptronic is bent on neutering this fine drive train).
So, now I sit at a red light and I think what the heck, I'll put the lever down into "S" -- HELLO, the car said, I am now the HULK.
I pulled away from the stop light and the car stayed a whole 3 seconds in first gear which meant when it shifted to second it was at an "appropriate" torque point to continue the forward thrust -- as god intended.
I have now driven the car 54 miles and tried "D" mode, tip-mode (looooooser) and "S" mode (winnnner). Makes me wonder who in the wide-wide world of sports programmed this transmission and why, knowing the performance sucking nature of this transmission (especially in "D") the final drive ratio is actually taller (lower numerically) than the 6spd.
Now get this, there is an inherent power loss with a "slush" transmission, DSG excluded of course. Therefore the tip versions generally have reported 0-100kph times that are slower than the same car with a stick shift (look on the AudiUSA web site).
So, wouldn't you think, esepcially in the US where 0-60mph is "king" and all day cruising at 100mph is virtually impossible not to mention illegal, that the tip Audis would have shorter final drive ratios in the automatics or at least equal gearing with the manuals?
And, why almost literally force the car at 2mph to upshift to second gear -- it KILLS the forward momentum. This transmission in "D" is subjectively worse than my 1963 Chrysler Newport's "Torque-Flyte" 3spd automatic -- which at least stayed in first gear so that the shift to second gear was not followed by a loss of urge (and this, without engaging kickdown).
OK, so the partial mea-culpa is, the transmission gets a pass so long as it is used virtually exclusively in "S" mode.
I have to wonder, not having driven a new allroad with tip if this phenom is the same? And, if it is, why in the world would anyone buy one of these things if they had not tested it exclusively in "S" mode?
Finally, I read and "argued" with several Audi and VW posters on this and other town halls and forums who proclaimed that the tip was smoother than the 6spd. I concede the point that the 6spd could be made to be herky-jerky. The tip in "D" mode cannot be made smooth -- it shifts up so early that the motion is MORE prevalent than the depressing of the clutch in the stick. My head, in "D" mode with this tip would bow forward at the shift points between first, second and third.
Perhaps the much touted 6spd tip and especially the DSG will mitigate the sensation of the tip in "D" mode -- I certainly hope so.
It is my intention to test a new S4 with the 6spd auto (which, is TIP, not DSG, not CVT) and see if this presumption is accurate -- I have already tested the S4 with the "new and improved" 6spd manual and it, finally, is in BMW's league (with respect to shift feel).
The CVT, to add a brief foot note is eerily smooth and has an incredible almost turbine like quality which, when and if it is adapted to the quattro system and the higher torque engines, would be even spankier (is that a word?).
Anyway to those who have taken umbrage at my proclimation that the "tip sucks" (even though I defend everyone's right to select one), I partially retract and modify my opinion: the tiptronic is significantly less quick (in the allroad 2.7T) when compared with the 6spd -- that fact remains; the 6psd and the tip can be smooth and can be herky-jerky. But now, I concede that the tip --driven in "S" mode -- in not unsatisfying; and, if it were coupled with a higher horsepower and torque engine and/or had a shorter final drive ratio would be [even for me] a "contender."
Drive it like you live.
As to answering your question about why isn't the final drive ratio lowered? Can we say EPA? lol!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I am already starting my research for a replacement vehicle. My wife has been driving the A4 most of the time. She states that this is the best car she has ever driven. Sounds like another audi is in the future. I have a question though, the other day I saw some A4's on the dealers lot. All of them had a strange wedge type piece on the roof of the vehicle. I was not impressed by the looks of this item. I am told that it is a homelink transmitter. If this is true why put it on the roof. What happened to the bumper location out of sight??
I am also thinking about a convertible Cabriolet.
Two problems with that though. I live in the NorthEast and probably a increase in insurance rates. Anyone know how the drop top effects insurance?
Any changes coming for 2005 on the A4 ie. more HP.
Just picked up a subaru Forester XT with a 4cyl. MT which will blow away my wifes A4.
Don
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
To each his own.
The whale tail, BTW, can be for sat radio and apparently is the location for the other antennas that are used for regular AM/FM, Sat Nav, Telephone and Radio by Satellite. At least this is what I read in one of those arcane magazines that goes into such detail. . .
"All of them had a strange wedge type piece on the roof of the vehicle. I was not impressed by the looks of this item."
I agree with you. Even if this is for a homelink system, navigation system or satellite radio, the whale tail is more substantial than I like.
I also hope the 2005 model comes with a bit more horsepower. 170HP for the 1.8T seems a bit low in comparison to some of it competitors.
Tony
You see the problem is that a 225HP in a 4 banger, when compared with the 3.0 with only 220HP makes that A4 variant look, again, underpowered.
So what do you do? The 225HP 1.8T which is fully engineered, highly reliable and highly tunable would make the V6 tough to sell (except for those who think bigger is better).
It is all about the cubic inch crowd versus the volumetric efficiency crowd.
The new news is that the Audi non-turbo 3.2 engine does put out 250HP and IT isn't even trying.
So, perhaps this is an option: bump the 1.8T to 200 or 210 HP and bump the 3.2 to 265 HP and offer those two engines in A4's and offer a 340 or more HP V8 as the base in the S4.
My prediction: something that is in the spirit of these numbers and how they got to them will happen at the latest by the 2004 calendar year (perhaps it will be the 05 model year before you can buy one however). Perhaps, too, the HP of the 3.2 in the A4 will cap at 250 for the first go round. The lineup could then be a 1.8T and a 3.2 each with horsepower figures beginning with a "2" and the S4 with a BARE minimum power of 340 -- and if there is such a beast an RS 4 with an HP number biginning with a "4"!
Woo woo!
I am getting a real lesson in what turbo 4's can do lately. I have not been much of a turbo person, but with the new Subie Forester XT with a 2.5 sti turbo that has all changed. I only have about 860 miles on the ODM so far. Have not unleased the tiger yet, but from what I am hearing. I better hang on with both hands.
Well again good to be back, keep all the hot info coming. I do recognize some handles from 2002 when I was last researching good to see you are still here.
Don
I haven't heard anything on any power upgrades to the 2005 models. I don't think the 3.2 found in the TT will make it over to the A4. Audi invested a lot of money on designing the 3.0 engine. Maybe they can build the output of the 3.0 for 2005. I do like the predictions from Mark.
I have heard that the new DVD-based Nav Plus system that's being sold in the A3 in Europe right now should find it's way over to the A4 (and the rest of the models) for 2005. Supposedly, the full system (with large color center mounted display) will make it over to North America. I'll wait and see.
Back to Audi's. The FSI 2.0T engine would certainly be welcomed in the A4. It's going to be in the new Golf's and A3's, I believe. 200bhp. Nice.
Billy