Audi A4 2004 and earlier

mmcbride1

Just wanted to add that the reason I didn't get the sports package is winters. I live in Denver and didn't want to fork out the extra $ for snows. The all-seasons that come on the non-sport work fine in the white stuff.

If there's no NTB where you live, Discount Tire is great, also. They do all of the same stuff Billy was talking about for free.

nitpicker

Billy -- When you're at the Quattro Challenge this weekend, please do me a favor: scope out the other cars and see whether any of them are Tips. I was so tempted to attend, but can't make it this time. Gotta admit, I was also a little intimidated at the thought of showing up at an event like that with an automatic. Already feel like I'm wrecking the A4 demographics by virtue of age (40s) and gender (female); with all that, plus owning a Tiptronic, I thought I might get sent straight to Audi Purgatory if I showed up at an event like that. I really do love to drive, though, and would like to learn more about trick maneuvers/super-defensive handling, etc.

Mike -- You're right about the I30: It is a nice car, just not nearly as sporty as the A4. My parents seem to be very happy with their new one, though they haven't driven it much. My impressions, after driving it just once, were that it's cushy and comfortable with decent handling and nice acceleration, but not a car that I could be passionate about the way I am about the A4. To me, cars like the I30 dull the senses rather than engage the senses -- but I realize that a lot of people prefer what the I30 offers.

Rocco -- Have your parents narrowed the choices any more?

By the way, the first little problem has surfaced on my 1.8T, after 1850 miles: I'm hearing a buzz in the right front speaker in the upper door panel. I'm disappointed, yeah, but I'll still be very happy with the car if no major problems surface. Every time I drive it, I'm just so impressed with how tight and well-balanced and fun to drive it is. Also am averaging 24-25 mpg, in combination city/highway driving, which is a little better than I expected this early in the life of the car.

bast2

Hey all...it's been a while since my last post about three months ago!

Just cranked over the 5k mark on the A4 1.8T last night. Amazing really, I was so excited to buy the darn thing, love driving, but have had my share of "issues" with it already.

First off, talk about the wrong summer to pick to try and get rid of an SUV. Geez, took me 3 mos. to finally dump the Jeep Cherokee after picking up the A4. Next time it'll be a trade.

And now I've had several distinct problems with the car already. First, a "clunking" noise that appears when I shift from Park to Reverse, and reappears when I shift into drive, and/or go over bumps. Thought is was transmission, but found out it was in fact a misaligned exhaust system that was somehow knocking into the transmission and everything else around it. Thought my luck with new cars was ending, but was glad to hear it wasn't the transmission itself. Appears to have cleared up after the fix.

Second, a severe squeek in rear. You can hear it when you slam the doors, 0-5 mph, and over bumps at slow spead. Turns out I need new rear rocker arms. It's been a reoccurring problem on A4's and A8's apparently. None the less, I was not too pleased. I'm waiting for parts right now.

Over all, however, general handling is fantastic, brakes are silky smooth and responsive, accelaration is "fun". Yes the A4 has lost a little of the sparkle for me, but still provides quite a bit of satisfaction.

Perhaps my expectations were too high. I felt stepping up to an Audi meant I'd be avoiding the very type of problems I'm now dealing with. Now I question my decision from time to time. I'm certainly not trying to discourage others from going with the A4 or Audi in general, but I'll be taking my rose-colored glasses off the next time around.

JB

mmcbride1

Oh, the I30 is boring to drive, alright. But it's exactly what my wife and your parents wanted. Good power, luxurious interior, good stereo. My wife could care less about handling. She just wants to be able to stomp on the go pedal and fly past people. And look good doing it

lauk0dg

Hey Karen, I don't think there's anything wrong with you being in the 40's, a female and driving a Tiptronic that participates in the Quattro Challenge. In fact, I bet most of the S-series cars that Audi will provide that day and the '02 A4 3.0 available for test drives will be Tiptronics. I can't imagine Audi will use their stick shift cars to teach people how to drive a stick before letting them doing hot laps or test driving. You should have signed up for it.....most important is that you will enjoy it.....you should care less about how other people think. Personally I don't see a problem with people driving a Tiptronic Audi.....and I would expect half-half stick and Tip mix that day. Alright I'll do the scoop for ya and see how many of them own Tip cars :>

Wow hearing all the problems that some of you had.....maybe I should keep my ears open for clues of trouble. Mine so far with 8400 miles has nothing wrong (touch wood). A friend of mine who has a 01.5 2.8 put 13,000 miles since early March and he reported no problems either. FYI, he swapped his sports susp for Bilstein shocks and Neuspeed springs and his silver bullet looks pretty sharp with the factory 17" wheels. It all comes back to me.....should I get new suspension and slicks? Nah, winter is approaching. Maybe next year :>

Billy

mmcbride1

Does the 1.8T engine hold 4.3 quarts or 3.7 quarts? AudiUSA.com says 3.7, the owner's manual says 4.3. My service guy I just called just read it to me out of the manual. I ask because if it's 3.7, I'm only going to buy 4 quarts of Mobil 1. I don't want them overfilling my car.

Also, Billy, how is the Mobil 1 going? I think I'll switch at my 5k service later this month. My oil in there now is pretty dirty. I guess that's because I like to rev it to 5k or so at least once or twice a day

scirocco22

Mike-- *tsk* you weren't payin' attention awhile back *sticks out tongue* ...there was a TSB issued to all dealers that supercedes the owner's manual stating that the correct capacity is 3.7 with filter change.

opps, gotta run again... I want to respond to the other posts so I'll be back.

--'rocco

mmcbride1

That's what I thought. When I mentioned it to the service guy, he said he'd heard of no such thing from AoA. So I should only have to buy 4 quarts of Mobil 1 and bring it in, right?

Kind of makes me wonder about the service dept, huh?

mmcbride1

What weight synthetic did you go with?

I'm thinking 5W-30 - it gets cold here in the winter.

nschulman3

You are absolutely right about the satisfaction of owning an Audi wearing off. True, they are great lloking, solid car that are satisfying to drive, but mine have spent way too much time in the shop. I had a 97 a4 1.8tquattro with numerous problems. Still, I loved the car and my wife convinced me to get another Audi, this time a tt coupe. Well, I've had the car for 15 months and I'm now on a first-name basis with the service people at two local dealerships. The ca rspends almost as much time in the dealership as it does on the road. Transmission problems, cd player malfunctioning, electrical problems (directionals don't work), engine hesitating between 3500-4500 rpms are only some of the problems experienced with the new car. My next car will not be an Audi.

mmcbride1

I'm sorry to hear about your problems, but they appear to be the exception, not the rule. I'm at 4200 miles and there's nothing I can find to even tell the service advisor when I'm in for my 5k service later this month (other than to use my synthetic oil and to make sure not to overfill the car .

lauk0dg

Haha yup Scirocco is right again *ding ding ding*. I didn't know it's supposed to be 3.7 quart until I found out that they didn't use the 5th bottle/quart. I was like, oh crap, they didn't put in the right amount. Pull the dipstick, and it's right on. Weird I thought, but then I read the manual and it says 4.3 quart SPEC, meaning that's the capacity needed for a new filter and a new engine. So given it's not drained completely and engine oil still coating the inside of the engine, 3.7 quart makes sense. So yeah, I have 2 bottles of Mobil 1 sitting in the trunk, 1 full and 1 with 0.3 quart left.

I am running Mobil1 0W-30, which should provide more cold weather protection than 5W-30. Just one reminder, put BIG notes for the service tech to use YOUR oil. I thought I made it clear to put words on the service order to "USE OIL IN TRUNK". Nope it didn't do a thing. They put Castro dino oil in my engine and the service manager kept telling me it's as good as Mobil1. Made them change it back in 20 minutes the next day I went back. I'm thinking I will put a big sticker on the oil cap to "USE MY OIL".

Billy

mmcbride1

I didn't realize they made 0W-30 synthetic. I'll probably go with that, too, although our winters arent' nearly as cold as yours. Oh, well. Either one will work just fine.

The service guy did tell me to put it up front and not in the trunk, though.

lauk0dg

Oh yeah they actually even make 0W40 synthetic although it's hard to get them in US. Some S4 owners said they can get them through local Porsche service centers. They will be, however, significantly more expensive. Our engines come with 0W30 too. Yeah either 0W30 and 5W30 is good, and 0W30 only comes in synthetic.

Oh crap, I guess I will put the synthetic up front next time then. See the most troubling thing was, they put the word "DONE" under "USE OIL IN TRUNK". They actually claimed they have done something they didn't do. Scary, isn't it.

Billy

sachino

I'm at about 500 miles on my A4 1.8TQM since I got it about a month ago. I have been very happy with the car so far. The driving is great and so are the luxury features. Here are some of the things that I don't like. The number one thing is the driver seat control. I was just at the Audi dealership picking my plates and while waiting had the chance to check out the electronic seat controls on the A8 and the Acura 3.2TL. They were really great. I wish my A4 could be as confortable as the Acura. I am quite tall 6 ft 1" and have a peculiar way of sitting. I had to adjust my sitting style to be comfortable in the car. That is really my biggest complaint. Second, I have a problem with these stock music systems on all luxury cars. Because they are in built into the dash it is difficult to really change them. I would love to put one of those new mp3 players into my car so that I don't have to carry a portable one with a car kit. Finally, I think the black color is kinda dull and would have preferred something different like green or blue, but I don't think I would have wanted to pay the extra price even if it was available (there was only black for a manual without sport package). But what are you gonna do? One can't have everything in life.

Sachino

aegus1

Billy, I expected you to say that you got a great deal on your buddy's sport package he swapped out. Winter's not here yet!

If I had it to do over -- I would have gotten the leather. The leatherette is probably the best vinyl out there, but its still vinyl. My point being, if you have an easy shot at picking up something you think you should have gotten the first time around -- maybe you should just go for it.

Sachino, I know what you mean about the colors. I ended up ordering Laser Red. I just couldn't see paying an extra $400 over a color. I knew if I got Black, it would always look dirty (my fault). White had been my favorite, but looked very stark and plain in person. The Red is growing on me. It definitely gets comments.

-Barry

lauk0dg

Sachino, I guess I'm with you on the seating position. I'm 5'11 and yeah my passengers always asked me if I'm not comfy cuz they saw my knee sticking above the side of the center console. Well with 8400 miles on the car I finally managed to find a comfy position around 2000 miles. One more complaint.....that knob that controls the tilt of the seat back is ridiculous. Good thing my hand is not thick at all.....can't imagine what Arnold Schwartzenneger will say when he tries to adjust the seat back.

Barry, well you read my mind.....I was thinking about it and my buddy actually asked me if I wanted it. After serious thought, I have the following conclusion.....if I were to drop it I would drop it as low as my buddy did on the Bilstein/Nuespeed setup. Drop from stock non-sports to stock sports is 20mm, or an equivalent of 1.5 fingers. Dropping from stock non-sports to bilstein/Neuspeed takes care of 3.5 fingers.....and it looks so much better. Then I put my hand into my buddy's S4 and I got 3 fingers.....while I can put my whole hand, 5 fingers, into my A4 non-sports susp. COnfusing enough, but you get my point. I want to go from 5 fingers (stock non sports) to 1.5 fingers (Bilstein/Neuspeed). Sacrifice of course is the winter snow plough effect. Ahhhh.....Sachino is right, can't have everything in life. Wait I got an idea.....I'll move to CA then :>

Billy

aegus1

I think I get the finger measurements. But I'm not sure where you might be measuring from. If it's from the wheel arch to the tire, I think you have to take into account theres a change in tire sizes (circumference) 55/16 vs 45/17. And you did mention he's running the 17"s.

Alas your winters are tougher than mine. At least you keep the white stuff longer than we do (Philly). I'm planning to get a set of winter wheels/tires in 16". Most of friends are already setup this way. Although I hate to think of it covered in road salt.

I still have my 94 Maxima for grundge duty. My friends are all over me about selling it (paid off, no problems, 124k miles).

-Barry

lauk0dg

True. He got the 17" wheel pkg with 225/45/17 tires while I have the pathetic 205/60/15 tires on the more pathetic 15" wheels. The diameter of the wheel with 205/60/15 tires is 627mm, that of the 205/55/16 tires is 632mm and that of the 225/45/17 tires is 634mm. Well I guess a 7mm difference between the 15" and 17" setups, or half a finger. I guess my thinking is, I will upgrade to at least 17" rims IF I do the suspension upgrades, and the rides of those 2 guys give me a pretty good idea what I want.

To sum up what we talked about, I would like to have 1.5 finger gaps in a 225/45/17 wheel and tire setup. My buddy's ride with the 17" A4 sports wheels look pretty sharp with his drop.

Yup and for winters, I will switch to 16" setups, possibly with even thinner than 205 tires. Maybe 195's will do the trick. You definitely want a thinner tire to have more weight per square inch of thread on all 4 corners .

Billy

teller

I'm seriously considering a new 1.8T, and I know things will break from time to time, no matter how well cared for. I also understand the excellent warranty/maintenance package. However, I still would like to estimate the total cost of long term ownership (6-8 years, maybe) and would appreciate any info (dealer is kinda vague on this) on the major service intervals, what is done when (timing belt, etc.), and costs to do it all properly, for, say 120,000 miles or so. Also, once that warranty expires, what has been everyone's experience with costs of nonroutine repairs (compared with more mainstream cars), and the durability of the 1.8T. Any info would help.

varig

I noticed that the local Subaru dealership put aftermarket leather in a few of their WRX (looked really sharp). The price was @ 1100$ . It occured to me that if I were to get an Audi 1.8T and could not live with leatherette, I could have aftermarket leather installed too. The Subie salesman (where's that grain of salt) said that he liked aftermarket leather better since they install it over the original seat covering. Aftermarket leather seems to hold up better, according to the salesman. Has anyone had experience doing that with their A4?
Also, I am still "on the fence" as far as which car to buy, A4 or WRX. I'm waiting to see what the 2002 look like. An Audi saleman told me that the new model drives better than the current model and that the stock suspension has the same feel as the current sport suspension. He had the chance to drive the new A4 recently, so he does have some credibility. Wonder if I should still opt for the sport then??? But outside of waiting to see what the new A4 looks/drives like, my indecision of A4 vs. WRX is basically down to safety. On paper, the A4 appears to have the upper hand. Traction control, ESP, brake assist, more airbags are all features the A4 has but the WRX doesn't. I'm interested in avoiding accidents as much as surviving them. Do you think these features are really all that important in the 'real world'?
What's your opinion?
thanks

nschulman3

As a previous owner of an a4 1.8t quattro and a current owner of a wrx, I can state some opinions. One, there is no comparison in the handling or acceleration of the two cars. The wrx, even shod with mediocre tires, handles better than the a4. I know that many people on this site will crucify me for picking a subaru over an audi, but it came down to a few simple choices. Did I want a reasonably fast car with awd that handled well and had numerous luxury items and a rock solid structure but an IMO shaky reliability for a car that is much faster, handles much better, is cheaper to maintain in the long haul, but has less luxury. I chose the wrx because I was willing to give up the audi mystique and luxury for a much faster, better handling and more reliable car, especially since i bought, not leased, the car.

lauk0dg

OK same comparison again. I don't own a WRX but have test driven it. I guess it's not fair to compare the two because they're totally different animals. If you just base your comparison because both of them have AWD, you should also include a Hummer or a BMW 325xi in your comparison. WRX is a descendent of a rally car, so obviously superior handling and power are its advantages, and it will lack luxury. The A4 is a descendent of a luxury brand, so luxury is standard and good (of course not as good as the WRX) handling is a blessing. Two different things. Just like you can't compare a lemon to a yellow rose because they're both yellow. Pick the A4 if you want luxury at a reasonable price, and pick the WRX if you want performance.

And Nschulman, nah we won't crucify you. We will just hang ya LOL just kidding. No I appreciate you being a previous A4 owner and a current WRX owner can give us some insight.

Billy

keninplacitas

On reading your recent posts, I note that you've owned a 97 A4 1.8T and an 18 month old Audi TT Coupe, both of which were in the shop a lot. Boy! having one exception to the rule is a bummer, having two in a row must be sheer misery. You've really had some hard luck. Your story makes me feel very fortunate that my 2000 A4 1.8T hasn't had any problems at all to speak of in over 37,000 miles (okay, I've had a squeaky window fixed, had the cigarette lighter replaced (wouldn't come out smoothly), and a slight vibration at 81 MPH that was corrected by balancing the front wheels). All of these issues were addressed during the 5000 mile preventive maintenance visits. Now I'm getting ready to replace this wonderful car with a 2002. I'll really be kicking myself in the but if my new one turns out to be anything like the Audis that you've had experience with.

One other point, I'm really not having an easy time imagining a car, even your WRX, having 'much' better handling than the A4 (mine has sports suspension so that's all I can compare from but it handles VERY well). What about your TT. I was recently looking at some comparison tests and the TT looks to be one great handling son-of-a-gun. It also has VERY short 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. How about giving us a WRX/TT comparo.

Thanks nschulman3, I look forward to your next posting.

barresa62

If you hadn't the chance yet, check out the Oct issue of Car&Driver. The results of their 3way comparo between the Audi S4, BMW 330ix, and Subaru WRX had the WRX besting or equally the other two at just about everything. In fact, the WRX lost out on the top spot by 1pt, 97 vs 96. Two of the 3 reviewers picked the WRX as #1 and the S4 second. The 3rd reviewer rated the WRX last and the S4 first, so when averaged the WRX landed just out of first into second.

Stephen

aegus1

I test drove both of these cars to death. Even had my deposit on a Rally Blue WRX wagon. Trust me -- the Rex handles better. The A4's suspension doesn't have as much travel to it and doesn't damp it quite as well. The A4's extra weight only adds to the differences. The A4's ride is supple, even with the sport package. The WRX ride is still very good but not a luxury ride. And the power's there before before going aftermarket. That said -- I bought the A4. I would have loved to have both cars. The Rex's handling virtues didn't beat the 'whole package' that I felt I was getting with the Audi. Trust me I agonized over this one.

The other side of the coin on the WRX was ... that even though it's cheaper -- I knew I'd have to pay list price. I figured I'd also have to add the cost of 17" wheels and tires (and not the BBS ripoff option $3k). I'm gun shy of first year models from anyone. And drifting into personal preferences: No heated mirrors, door locks, etc. No Sunroof ever (there's structural member running through the headliner). No heated seats. The cabin, while exceptional for driving, isn't the stuff of luxury. I think that's what swayed me in the end.

In the end I don't think I would have done wrong with either. But we can't have everything in life... where'd I hear that?

mmcbride1

Stephen, nobody is doubting the WRX's performance. But the WRX has zero luxury. That's fine for the guys at C&D who just want a fast car that handles well. All they care about is performance. They could care less about amenities because they don't have to live with the cars every day. They just thrash them and move on to the next car. But for those of us who have to live with the car day in and day out, I was not willing to make those sacrifices (over the A4) to have a fast, great handling car. I decided I'd rather have a much nicer, albeit slower and lesser handling, car with lots of amenities that I can use every day (auto climate control, moonroof, xenons, Bose stereo, heated seats, auto dimming mirrors, heated mirrors, etc.) than a bare bones screamer.

The WRX is not for everyone. And for my next car, I'll be looking at the S4 and 330xi, but not the WRX. Like I said, I like my amenities, and I'm willing to pay for them.

aegus1

Thanks. I'll look forward to reading it. Sounds like a good article. Probably draw me back into 'what if I'd....'

-Barry

barresa62

Mike: Just think, if the WRX had a moonroof and leather it would have topped the comparo! :-) Anyhow, I've sacrificed nothing. The front seats are extremely comfortable, the 6disc in-dash CD (not available in the Audi) is very good and convenient, and the MOMO steering wheel (std in Ferrari as well) feels great in my hands at all positions. Living w/the WRX day-to-day in Seattle traffic (2nd worst rushhour in the nation, BTW) is painless. I guess your sacrifices are different then mine.

Barry: FYI, the WRX comes std w/heated seats and mirrors in Canada. For the life of me, I don't know why they weren't at least offered as an option in the US. I'm still waiting to see if they are at least prewired. Installation would be fairly simple then.

Stephen

schwitzer1

I looked at a lot of different cars before deciding on Audi. I based my decision on what I perceived I was getting for the amount of money that I was willing to spend. Had I been able to afford it, I probably would have gotten the S4. As I sit now, I'm very much happy with the A4 1.8T FronTrak that I decided on. It's not the quickest car I could have bought. It's not the best handling car, either. But a lot of the appeal of those things fizzled in my mid-twenties, anyway. Now, I'm driving a flashy (Brilliant Yellow) car that gets great mpg and is pretty spicy when I decide to punch it. It corners really well, and it's very comfortable on long trips. It's easy to put kids in and out of the back seats due to the wide-opening doors. The trunk holds...damn near anything.

My other choice, by the way, would have been a Ford F-250 XLT with Power Stroke Diesel and Crew (4-door) cab with the long bed. I still pine for one of those, but I get the turbo sound that I love and I get everything else, too.

aegus1

We should all be glad that Subaru was finally brave enough to bring this car over. It raises the bar for all other cars, much as the S4 does and 'M' cars from BMW. That it does what it does at its price point is doubly good. I hope to see a lot more performance with my luxury next time around and at prices that have to compete in the market.

Example: The Mustang wasn't a perfect car but it made the rest of detroit sit up and take notice. It spurred development. We were the winners.

$0.02

barresa62

lauk0dg

If it wasn't Subaru bringing a turbocharged car over, Nissan or Mitsubishi won't even consider to bring the Skyline or the Lancer over. FYI, those cars pack way over 276hp in Japan, and the same hold true for the STi version of the Subaru in Japan......and AWD is standard in the GTR version of the Skyline. The new Skyline will make its way in as the Infiniti G35, although it's not the GTR version.

Can't wait till tomorrow's Audi Quattro Challenge at the Chicago Motor Speedway :> Report when I return from it tomorrow :>

Billy

nschulman3

I chose the wrx over another a4 1.8t quattro because a lot of the options I can't get in the Subaru such as sunroof, heated mirrors and seats, trip computer I never really used, except maybe the mirrors, since they are automatic. I love the xenons, but I find the automatic climate control to be awaste, since I always chang the speed or temperature manually when it gets too cold or too warm. IMO, this system doesn't work that well. The bose stereo is nice (Ihave it in my tt), but it isn't any better than a decent aftermarket system and isn't worth the cost. The auto dimming mirror is cool and is offered as an option on the wrx. As far as the ride goes, the a4 may be more supple, but it also bottoms more easily and I find the wrx actually has a better ride over expansion joints and potholes. Someone else mentioned the ease of driving the wrx in city traffic and this is so true. My a4 was a pain in the *** while stuck in traffic, what with the high clutch takeup.The Subaru is easier and less of a strain to drive in stop and go traffic. Regarding the tt, I've driven both fwd and quattro versions. My tt is unfortunately a fwd version and the handling is so-so. The car corners very flat, with virtually no body roll, but the ride is so rough that it is not very enjoyable. However, my biggest complaint with the tt is the tremendous torque steer. This is mostly my fault. I clearly felt the car was too slow when I purchased it, so I added a Joe Hoppen chip. Although the car is much faster, the steering is all over the place. The car is a rocket and would probably be great if it were quattro. I have driven tt quattros, and IMO, they are much stiffer than the wrx, but the Subaru has a better balanced chassis. If you put better rubber on the wrx, it would surely outhandle the tt significantly. Still, the feel of the tt (a low-slung sports car) is something special.

varig

Since you've had the experience of driving both the WRX and A4, have you been in situations where you could judge a difference in the AWD systems, ie, rain, snow,etc. I know Audi makes a big deal of beling able to launch with only 1 wheel, whereas Subaru can shift between front and rear and from side to side in rear only. What about road noise? The C&D article mentioned that there was a lot of road noise with the WRX?
thanks in advance.

nschulman3

Perhaps the Audi has a more intricate and sophisticated system. Ihave no idea. All I do know is that both systems work great. Still, IMO, the Subaru awd system doesn't make the car feel heavy, while the A4 seems hindered by all the extra weight. Handling-wise, the subaru has a teriffic rally-car feel I never experienced with the a4, but only heard about. Upon hard acceleration around turns, you really feel the back end pu;; you through in the wrx. It is a strange feeling at first, but once you get used to it, it is a lot of fun. As far as road noise, I'm not sure if you are referring to this month's Car and Driver or the earlier issue in april or May. My car has 16" wheels and tires like the earlier road test and the road noise is not a problem. Perhaps the October test (I anxiously await deivery of this issue) has a model with the 17" tires. That would certainly make a difference, although I don' know how much.

nschulman3

True, many dealers are selling the wrx at or near sticker and this makes the car less of a bargain. However, I drove 320 miles from Northern New Jersey to near Syracuse New York (Van Bortel Subaru in Victor NY) to buy the wrx at 200.00 over invoice. The price with a few options (armrest extension, winter mats, air filtration and upgraded security system) was 23,300 including destination. This made the car a bargain, getting it at nearly 2,000 off sticker.

keninplacitas

I bought a Subaru (Forester) once after owning several Audis and Saabs over the years. It's funny; before buying the Subaru I was beginning to presume that all cars in this day of age hold on to that that tight, new car quality feeling over a good long period of time (you get spoiled). With the Subaru I learned otherwise. Hope you WRX guys don't end up discovering this same thing. Please, keep us posted.

Has anyone heard anything new and interesting about the 2002 A4s? With it being a new model and already on the roads in Europe, I'm wondering if our friends over there have had any experiences they'd like to share. For instance: Is it living up to it's hype? Are there any 'new car' reliability issues showing up? Where might I look to learn more about the European experience with the new A4?

lauk0dg

OK I got way too much stuff to tell.....so I'll break it up into several pieces.

THE NEW A4 3.0 Quattro Test Drive
It was available for everyone to test drive. The model they brought there is a 5-speed manual tranny with the 17" sports pkg and the 3.0 liter engine, and of course it's a Quattro. The color is Denim Blue Pearl, a new color for US. Audi set up a very short course so I didn't quite even get it up to 35mph before I need to make the turn, but the course consisted of a tight S-turn so it's a good way to see how the body roll is. The first line after I test drove it was, "Where is the trade-in booth??". There was MINIMAL body roll, so minimal it almost feels the same as the TT-225 roadster they brought along for test drive. I think that's intentional as they want us to feel it's as tight as the roadster. Acceleration was phenomenal, although I can't say for sure what's the acceleration at higher speed will be. The interesting thing is, the car is a 5-speed, I guess it's an Euro model they brought along. It'll be interesting to drive the real 6-speed 3.0. Interior ergo was fantastic, although it took some time to get used to it since there are more features pack into the car such as dual zone climate control and the CD changer that is built in to the center console. It's a very handsome car and the shape is definitely looking easier in the eyes. That said, I'd still prefer the shape of our current cars. The most phenomenal thing about the new A4 is the tightness of the car. Audi picked a section of the parking lot that has tons of expansion cracks (dunno if it's intentional or not) so as you go over the cracks you can still feel them but you can definitely see that the body is rigid like a stone. And again when I was taking corners at higher speed I got the tires squealing a little (cuz of the uneven surfaces) but I was in total control of the car. It's definitely improved by a lot and the new 17" sport rims are very awesome looking. One new thing about these tires is that they wear 235 series rubber instead of 225. With the wider stance and wheel well and the wider tires, it's one mean looking car from behind. BMW and Mercedes, here comes a serious contender.

Check out these pics from a fellow Chicagoean Larry who took at the event on a Dolphin Grey 2002 A4 1.8T static display:

http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/764500.phtml

You can climb on it, do whatever you want to it at the event. Just no driving around.

About the whole Quattro Challenge, one million kudos to AoA. They put on a fantastic day of activities and finished it up with a nice German dinner, open bar, folk music band from Germany and buffet under the roof of the famous Field Museum here in Chicago.....where the T.Rex dinosaur Sue is. In fact the dessert table was right next to Sue's feet.

Alright it's pretty late and everybody's tired from yesterday's events.....I will take each day to cover the 4 activities we did at the track yesterday......in order they will be:
1. High-speed lapping around Chicago Motor Speedway in an A6 4.2 (other cars were an S8, another A6 4.2, an S4, an Allroad and an A4 2.8)
2. Auto crossing
3. Wet and Dry Pavement Handling
4. Accident Avoidance and Recovery Handling

Stay tuned :>

Billy
(a happy man who's surprised at what his 1.8T can do)

lauk0dg

I know pics say a thousand words......

My buddy Ken took tons of pics.....check them out:

http://www.pbase.com/azh/quattro_challenge__cms

Larry also did a brief commentary report:

http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/764496.phtml

Enjoy (for now) :>

Billy

lauk0dg

http://i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=19b44bec2d831e2aba02ef1ddb70b1fb&threadid=90430

scirocco22

Wow! Some nice discussions going on! I don't have time to respond to all the new posts but just wanted to quickly post a few things.

Billy-- Man! Wish I could have been there! Will AoA do this anywhere else? Or is Chicago such a central location that they figured that they only have to have one? Did you have to have an "in" (i.e. be invited) or could anyone participate? Did it cost a lot to attend? Did you get the chance to ask whether we all get upgraded to the new 180hp ECU? *lol* And jeez, you actually read i-club?? ...heh, after reading what Ken said and experiencing the solidity of the A4, there's no way I'd ever consider a WRX especially after what I consider the 'tin can' feeling of my new Forester --S4 or A6 2.7T will be my next car! (how I feel right now, anyway *winks*) Oh, and I've got another oil question which I'll ask later when I get another chance to post.

Karen-- Nope, no progress yet on my parent's quest for a new car. Still trying to talk them into an A6 but not having too much luck. And *lol* I know how you feel but we shouldn't feel that way! I had similar feelings when Stephen (Barresa62) invited me to attend one of the local Subie gatherings. My bringing a frumpy non-modded Forester to such a get-together would feel awkward to me especially since I'm also an "old guy" but one of these days I'll have to muster up enough courage to go to one of these meets so I can see in person just how enthusiastic these WRX owners really are.

--'rocco

lauk0dg

You are all more than welcome to shoot me the questions.

OK to your questions, Scirocco. AoA has been starting this Challenge series in Mosport in Toronto. Chicago is the 2nd spot and the next spot is California. The 4th and the last spot is in Pennsylvania, near Allentown, PA. You can actually find the "invitation" on the AudiUSA website. Click on "My Audi" and it will show up as a dropbox inviting you. One of my buddies saw it on his My Audi page and the word spreaded quickly. AoA claimed on the site that there will be 50 cars in each of the Saturday and Sunday event, but to my count there were at least 100 cars on the Saturday event (4 groups and my group had 29 cars). You are going to hate me on this one but the whole day of activities, including gifts (car detailing stuff, free matchbox Audi vehicle of your choice, driving music CD (??), 10% off accessories, digital pic of you going thru the wet course), the nice German dinner buffet, instruction, their use of S vehicles are all FREE. The new A4 3.0 is DEFINITELY more solid than the WRX I test drove. I wouldn't even think about the WRX after test driving the new A4. Honest to the heart.

About the chip, what AoA did was to hire a Colorado firm that teaches winter driving and handling and went thru the instruction with us. In other words, all the instructors were not AoA employees and although they know how to handle the cars like you have never seen them before, they don't know Audi's stuff. I didn't get a chance to grab an AoA staff since even those non AoA instructors wore Audi clothing and I didn't know who really works for Audi. Sorry.

And the i-club thing.....no that's just a post I saw on AudiWorld and thought you guys might be interested to know.

Gotta get some work done and I'll come back to tell y'all those Quattro Challenge activities :>

Billy

mirth

Just read the latest Car and Driver and they had an article on the new A4 (they tested the 3.0 Quattro). Basically they thought it was a great car but they had two complaints:

1. You can't tell it apart from the A6 (I guess for some this would be a GOOD thing, but they wanted something unique for the A4).
2. The increased size is not readily apparent inside the car. Front legroom wasn't increased and the back legroom only increased 0.9 inches.

Also, they said that the prices would probably increase about 10%. If so, this will put the invoice for a base 1.8T FronTrak with Auto up from $24K to $26.5K. Unfortunately that would price it just out of my price range. Sigh.

mmcbride1

So get a leftover 2001. They are still great cars.

lauk0dg

I agree the extra dimensions are not apparent when I was in the 3.0. However it's not meant to be a big sedan. Hop into a BMW 3-series and although it's slightly bigger inside, it's still tight. About the price, I wouldn't be surprised if they will go up 10%, at least on the 3.0 Quattro model, considering numerous additional features like in-dash 6 CD changer, 4-way power lumbar seats, new research and design, subtle things like rear footwell lights, rear cupholders from the armrest, etc.. I think Audi intentionally prices the A6 2.8 close with the A4 2.8 (a price difference of only a few thousands, and maybe even closer with the new A4 3.0 and A6 3.0) just to move people who want more space to get an A6. I was sitting in the A6 4.2 and I was very comfy with the legroom it offers.

Yup do snatch the leftover 2001.5's. They are great cars and I'm sure with the 2002's coming you will find a good deal.

Billy

mirth

Yeah, I'd definitely consider the 2001, but they'll probably be gone by the time I'll be shopping next spring. And I don't want a used car. Oh well, I'll probably test drive the '02 anyway just for the fun of it. ;-)

aasilverbird

Spoke with a local dealer in Cleveland last week, and was told that they expected a 3% price increase over the 2001. Also, he said the 1.8T's would be in by mid month for sure, and the 3.0's by the end of the month.

And for the big question, with only a month away, why in the hell is the pricing not yet released?

lauk0dg

http://forums.audiworld.com/tt/msgs/347261.phtml

Just 3% price increase, aasilverbird?? Well that would make the 3.0 a more attractive buy than the 1.8T with all the additional power and luxury. I think AoA wants to have the cars at the dealers before they release the figures, IN CASE they are more than people want to pay for. Then they can coax them with a test drive and if I were a potential buyer, I would literally be shocked by the tightness of the new A4. It definitely rides better than the current car, which I think it's great already.

lauk0dg

otherwise those terrorists will think they succeeded to bring our lives to a standstill.

I found something that possibly is the first mechanical "failure". The pin that locks the fuel filler door squeaked when I lock or unlock it. I know it's a vacuum system but that sound just doesn't seem normal. I'm at 9100 miles right now and I guess I'll have it inspected at 10,000 miles. Anybody got that?

Billy