Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra

vadp

My '85 3-cylinder Suzuki (it's a CAR, LOL)is still on its original tranny and engine after 250K miles!!!

mpgman

Got 320,800 miles on my 88 LX with the original engine and clutch before it overheated big time on the Garden State Parkway. Looking at a major engine repair, I called it quits and bought an Elantra GT. Now 30,000 miles later, I love the car. Only complaint is the very wide pillars on the side and in the rear (B and C) which really do interfere with outside visibility in my opinion. Mirrors set for wide angles not withstanding, I've never had so many near misses changing lanes in my life. So unless I am really having senior moments prematurely, this is a concern to me.

jimbeaumi

It is a given that all car makers have improved their quality since the 80s, as any survey will show. It isn't fair to refer back to Hyundai's reputation from so long ago if we don't do the same for all brands. Using the not-recent past as a guideline for car shopping would suggest that GM still makes stylish cars. Times change, so do cars.

ziglifler

i have 2 hyundai's a 95 accent and a 02 gt . the 95 accent has 180k on it , my son drives it , original rear factory brakes and clutch still . has never left me on the side of the road , well other than the cheap 99$ for 4 tires that shread . the car did me so well i got a 02gt . i have 25k onit now and have had it for 13 months . it has been a good car sofar , i didn't have to have the roters resufficed at 18k that the dealer picked up on when i took it in for the clutch making a noise when i pushed the clutch in , they said it was just an ajustment needed for the clutch . and a headlight and driving light replaced . all of it was done free so it is no big deal for me . one thing i hated about the gt was the damn wiperblades SUCK ... but for 13.9k i think i made a great deal . i don't get rid of my cars till they are dead so resale means nothing to me i run them into the ground and get the tax right off . but lets face it people are gonna think what they wanna think , is elantra a better car than honda ? in my mind yes , but in many it is no . does it matter what others think well , we all like when others say we did good . but as long as you think you did good isn't that what really matters ?

jimbeaumi

Having owned my Elantra for 18 months, 26K miles, I decided to look closely at the Civic at Chicago Auto Show, just for curiosity's sake.

The layout inside of the Civic is nice; the cupholder cover is a nice touch for a tidy look inside. The switchgear feels about the same as my car, and the driver's seat is about as comfortable.

In the rear, the seat cushions is nice and high, but my hair just touched the ceiling. And while the height is nice, more angle would make it a more comfortable seat. It is also a narrower backseat than the Elantra.

The biggest letdown (in a generally good car) was the door shake when slammed. Not slammed hard, just shut with moderate force, and accompanied by a less solid sound than expected. Is this typical of Honda today?

Overall, the Elantra is more than competent, outside of the outstanding value it offers.

backy

No, shaking doors aren't typical of Hondas today. The '03 Accord for example has doors that close with a bank-vault quality. But I think it is an indication of the cost cutting and weight minimization tactics that went into the Civic. The Elantra is about 200 pounds heavier, and I think that helps in little things like the solidity of the doors (e.g., door panels that don't move in and out when lowering windows as on the Civic). OTOH, the Civic's lower weight helps with fuel economy, and it hasn't hurt the crash worthiness of the Civic.

jimbeaumi

You make a good point about the car's crashworthiness, which is commendable.

A friend of mine bought an Accord Coupe about nine months ago, before the restyling. His new Honda has the usual nice layout, leather, a somewhat notchy shifter, and decent door slam. But one detail overlooked was the loudly rattling sunshade for the moonroof. Closed, it is fine, but open for sun it has nothing to hold it firmly in place. What an annoyance. Still, it is a very nice car, with very good pickup from its 4-banger and stick.

mdriver

This problem also affects the the new CR-V. Close the door with moderate force (as is needed anyway to get the door to shut) and the entire side of the CR-V shakes. I doubt that even the domestics are this flimsy. I agree about the power windows moving the door panels in and out. That's just plain poor design - nothing to do with weight savings.

lngtonge18

A lot of companies must be guilty of poor design than as a lot of car's door panels flex when raising or lowering the windows. I know my 02 Mitsu Lancer and 03 Suzuki Aerio do it and so does my sister's 01 Honda Odyssey.

icvci

That's the first I've heard of it. Not in my V.

Maybe you have some sort of physical malady that mimicks a door rattle?

backy

There has been some chatter in the Honda Civic and Hyundai Elantra boards about the recent economy car comparo by Edumunds.com, in which the Civic took 1st, followed by the Elantra. Since this is the natural forum for discussing this comparo wrt the Civic and Elantra, I'll open the discussion with this thought...

Suppose Edmunds.com's next comparo includes the following cars:

Honda Accord EX 4-cyl. auto w/leather
Mazda6s 6-cyl. auto w/moonroof and Bose
Nissan Altima SE 6-cyl. auto
Toyota Camry SE 6-cyl. auto
VW Passat GL 4-cyl. auto
Honda Civic EX auto w/SAB

Two questions:
1) Which car do you think will wind up in first place?
2) Do you think it is fair to compare the Civic EX to the other cars?

backy

In the Honda Civic board, anonymousposts writes:

The Civic may be more expensive but a quick look at crash test ratings, interior design/quality, EPA ratings, and exterior gap tolerances will tell you where the money went. The Civic isn't the cheapest car on the market, but there's a reason for that. Much as an Accord is more than a Sonata.

And if you add a sunroof and ABS to the Elantra your MSRP goes up to $16,100, only $2000 off the price of the Civic. For that $2000 you are getting increased safety, economy, resale value, and more refinement. Whether that $2000 is worth it only each individual buyer can decide.

Crash tests: even up on NHTSA; advantage to Civic on the IIHS frontal offset test; advantage to Elantra on the IIHS bumper crash test.

Interior design: advantage to Civic on overall interior trim quality (e.g. chrome-trimmed gauges, chrome door handles); advantage to Elantra on driver's seat room and comfort (e.g. multi-adjustable seat cushion, full-sized center armrest); advantage to Civic on rear seat design (no center tunnel).

EPA ratings: advantage to Civic.

Exterior gap tolerances: even up (I've seen many samples of both cars and to me both have great panel fit).

So the question is, is the Civic worth $3850 more up front than the Elantra? That's what the real-world difference is, expressed in Edmunds.com's TMV numbers for my area and including any incentives that are available to all buyers. For me, a two-time Civic owner and die-hard Civic fan for many years, the answer was no--especially since in October 2000 I couldn't find anyone selling the then-all-new '01 Civic EX for anything close to what the TMV is now, and since the better mpg would get me only about $50 more per year in savings. Also because I found the Elantra a more pleasant and comfortable car to drive for daily commuting than the Civic, price difference notwithstanding. But everyone has different buying criteria.

npaladin2000

My main issue is that the Elantra (and the ION) were the only cars in the comparison not evaluated in their top level trim. The Civic, Corolla, Aerio, Lancer, etc, were all represented by their top trim levels. The ION was represented by its mid-grade trim. The Elantra was represented by it's BASE trim.

It's not quite like comparing a Civic EX to an Accord. More like comparing a Civic EX to a Civic LX, and expecting the Civic LX to have a fair shot at winning.

So, to put it in perspective, the Base Elantra, which is equivalent to a mid-level trim on most other makes because of feature content, lost by a single point to a top-of-the-line Civic. How would a GT score?

I don't know, actually. But I WANT to know. I want to know why the Elantra included in that comparison was a GLS rather than a GT. And I want to know the results of a comparison between an Elantra GT and a Civic EX. THAT would me a comparison that makes much more sense. If you're going to compare, compare apples to apples.

Elantra GLS to Civic LX
Elantra GT to Civic EX

backy

Car and Driver did that comparison a few months ago. Elantra GLS came in 2nd, behind the Protege LX (C/D's bias towards handling showing again) and the Civic LX came in fifth, behind Protege, Elantra, Corolla LE, and Focus SE. Actually, price-wise, C/D could have included the GT in their comparo also, since its price would have been in-line with other tested cars. But the GT sedan was pretty new at that time, so it may not have been available for the test.

backy

According to Consumer Reports, Hyundai now matches Hyundai for number of defects per vehicle, with the 2002 models. Both are tied for 2nd, 1 defect behind Toyota. For details, see:

broadband "Hyundai: Consumer Reports loves them!" May 31, 2003 12:39pm

bottgers

I think one thing that has been overlooked in this entire discussion is build quality. What do any of us really know about Hyundai's build quality? Sure we can compare body panel lines, and listen to how solid the doors sound when we close them, etc. But will Hyundais last for 200K-300K miles given the normal required maintenance? We know Hondas will. Honda's been building cars that have been doing this for years. Hyundai on the other hand has a reputation of building some pretty unreliable cars in the not so recent past which it has to overcome. I will say their cars today are much better than those of just a few years ago, but I don't think they're on the same level in terms of build quality (which translates to reliability) as the Hondas. For someone who doesn't keep a car more than 3-4 years, it's probably not worth paying the extra money for the Honda. For somebody like me who likes to drive a car until the wheels fall off, the Honda would definitely be worth the extra money.

backy

I'll let you know what happens with my '01 Elantra, which I plan to drive for 6 years and then turn over to my oldest son for college. So far, after almost 3 years, it drives like new (actually better than new, as the engine and tranny have loosened up) and is as solid as Day One. The longest I owned a Honda was 7.5 years for my '85 Civic S. It was pretty reliable overall, but needed a new clutch after 40k miles (the only clutch I've ever had to replace in a car), a new muffler at about 45k (well, those do wear out) and a new A/C condenser at about 60k miles. Also it started rusting out at about 60k miles, which isn't uncommon in Minnesota, but I owned a '91 Caravan for eight years and it was rust-free when I sold it. That Civic was a great little car for its time, though.

Just curious... if you like Hondas so much, why didn't you buy an Ody instead of an MPV?

bottgers

Two reasons; price and handling. My brother works for Ford (which owns Mazda), so he was able to get me a PIN for S-Plan pricing. This, coupled with Mazda's $2k cash back made a similarly equipped MPV roughly $6K-$7K less expensive than the Ody. Plus the MPV handles much more car-like than the Ody which we liked. My wife and I do like the Ody, we just couldn't see spending that much more for one.

csandste

then holy hell broke loose and the last 30K cost me big time. Maybe my Elantra will do the same, but at 40K my only problems have been headlamps. It gives every indication of being up there with the most reliable cars I've ever driven, not Hondas but Toyota (and Geo) products.

mike91326

Let me Guess, at 70K on the Caravan I bet you left your transmission by the side of the road. I know the feeling, when I sold my 1997 Plymouth GV I had 73K on the clock and I was on my 3rd transmission. Now I’m a happy two Hyundai family (01 Elantra and 03 Sonata).

backy

at least it would be covered under the powertrain warranty!

The tranny is still in my GCS, it has an extended warranty to 50k, and I plan on getting rid of it right around 49.998k.

mattpdx

I thought this was a Honda Civic thread! :-/

backy

This is a comparison board on Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra. If you just want to talk about Civics, without mention of competitors (or not much anyway), you want the Honda Civic Sedans board.

jlewelling1

You wrote "So the question is, is the Civic worth $3850 more up front than the Elantra?"

I know what the Edmunds pricing says, but based on shopping around here in the DC area, they tend to overestimate the TUV for new Hyundai's by at least $2,000 while the Civic prices are pretty close to what Edmunds claims.

I would prefer a Civic or Corrolla, but am leaning toward Elantra simply because of the price. Yes, I have concerns about reliability, but the Hyundai warrenty is quite good.

backy

I see the same thing in my area, although it's closer to a $1000-1500 difference (lower) for the Elantra from Edmunds' TMV prices. But I thought it was better to be conservative, and use "published" prices that others could easily verify.

lisshawill

The thing that I found when I did my comparison in Canada on the Elantra/Civic was the Elantra was about 1800 more for delivery. This was explained to me as the car had to come from Korea where as the Honda came from Eastern Canada. Anyway that was a determining factor for me as well as the fact that the Honda just felt much tighter and seemed to have a better finish quality. Part of the Elantra I found looked cheap.

backy

Wow, that's a huge difference! Really puts cars made overseas at a disadvantage in Canada. In the 48 States we pay the same delivery charge everyplace, whether we live in San Diego or International Falls.

Which parts of the Hyundai did you feel looked cheap? I don't think there is much excitement in the Elantra's interior (it's been spruced up for '04), but I'm pleased with the quality of the bits and pieces--padded armrests, non-flimsy vents, smooth controls, simple but clear gauges, damped glove box and sunglasses holder, sturdy cloth seats, soft-touch HVAC buttons, etc.

Correction on #1032: jlewelling1, when you are comaring Edmunds.com's TMV prices to prices in your area, are you figuring in the rebates? TMVs (and their TCO calculations) don't include rebates. On the Elantra, that would account for most ($1500) of the difference you're seeing.

jlewelling1

"1800 more for delivery"

If that is just the freight, that is ridiculous. The frieght for Japanese cars is in line with that for U.S. cars, which just goes to prove that it is a bogus charge. Do you pay "frieght" on T.V.'s from best buy? No. All these charges (processing, frieght, etc. ) should be built into the published price. The way we sell cars here in the U.S. is ridiculous.

I will say that when getting a price quote through Edmunds, most dealers provide a "delivered" price that includes frieght, processing and all other such charges. They usually throw in the "on-the-street" prices as well that include taxes and title (and provide this for both Virginia and Maryland since I live in the DC area.)

I don't know that one always gets the absolute "best" price using Edmunds, but one does seem to get a very good price without all the haggling. (Of course some dealers answer your request for a quote but refuse to give a quote! Always a few bad apples!)

mpgman

The Elantra's driver leg room is hard to beat in this class, and probably can't be beat. You've got to be comfortable in the driver's seat and the Elantra's adjustable seat, armrest, and lumbar support are a good combo. I've got 35k miles on my GT hatch and it is running great with zero problems. Where else can you get traction control and ABS, along with fog lights, sunroof, Michelins, 4 wheel discs, leather, trip computer, speed sensitive power steering, heated mirrors, and all of the other bells and whistles for well under $15k if you are willing to spend some time haggling?

backy

Honda has announced that by 2007 ALL of their cars will have ABS and side curtain airbags standard. That ups the bar for Hyundai, since I'd expect the 2006 model Civic, due to be a full redesign, would have those features, and the Elantra is due for a redesign at the same time. But maybe the '05 Spectra gives some glimmer into the future of the next Elantra. I have read that the new Spectra is based on the same chassis that will be used for the next Elantra. The new Spectra has side curtain airbags standard, also 4-wheel disc brakes. It would not take much to add ABS standard. It is great that features like side curtain airbags are pushing down into the econoboxes whereas a few years ago they were only available on luxury cars.

gregoryc1

Have you noticed that Hyundai & Kia are not "stand alone dealers". They are usually part of a Chrysler Operation. While Honda is just Honda. I think this is VERY important when it comes to getting high quality service from a dealer. In addition, when a vehicle holds it value, you as a consumer, get a better lease and / or a better return on the purchase price when you trade the vehicle. ----Just my opinion. ----Greg

backy

I haven't noticed that in general Hyundai & Kia are not "stand alone dealers", but they are sometimes paired up. In my area, there are two stand-alone Hyundai dealers, one paired with Mitsubishi (part-owned by DC), one paired with Dodge, and one paired with Nissan. As for service, based on my experience I can't agree with that observation. My Hyundai/Dodge dealer has given me good service, and the one time I had to take my Hyundai to the Hyundai/Mitsu dealer they gave me good service also. I think it has more to do with the Hyundai tech expertise available at the dealership and the overall attitude of service at the dealership than whether the dealer is stand-alone. I've owned two Civics and I didn't receive any better service from those two stand-alone Honda dealers than I've received on my Hyundai.

As for leases, I agree that in general you can get a lower lease payment on a Civic than an Elantra because of the higher residuals on the Civic. So if you are looking to lease a car and turn it in at the end of the lease, the Civic lease will likely be the better deal. However, I have seen very attractive terms on Hyundai leases, e.g. a recent offer of $199/month with no down payment for a Sonata. The other thing to look at is, what is the cost of buying an Elantra vs. leasing a Civic? For example, you can buy an Elantra GLS today for a little over $10k in my area. A comparably-equipped Civic LX would lease for $159/mo for 39 months plus about $1750 down. Given a decent interest rate, you could come out way ahead on the Elantra after 39 months of ownership.

gregoryc1

QUESTIION: ----Who supplies the power train,(engine & transmission), for these two vehicles? -----Greg

backy

Hyundai provides most of the engines now for both Hyundai and Kia, with some exceptions on the Kia side. The Hyundai 3.5L V6 is used widely across both makes (XG350, Santa Fe, Amanti, Sorento, Sedona). The Hyundai Beta 2.0L 4 from the Elantra and Tiburon will be used in the '05 Spectra, shipping next month. The Accent uses a Hyundai engine, but the Rio uses a Kia engine even though they are almost exactly the same specs (?!?). Since the Sonata and Optima are twins, they use the same (Hyundai) engines. I don't know where the trannies are sourced; many automakers use 3rd-party trannies, e.g. JATCO 5-speed automatics are used by many makes.

Why do you ask?

gregoryc1

That would tell us something about the mechanical quality of the vehicles. ----Greg

backy

Wouldn't long-term data on the reliabilty of the powertrains tell us more about the mechanical quality of the vehicles than simply who made them?

On another subject, what do you think about this for the redesigned '06 Civic 4-door: DX and VP trims are dropped. Both the LX and EX get 132 hp VVT engines (SULEV rated), and side air bags become standard. Leather becomes standard on the EX, along with an MP3 player. The LX gets 6 speakers standard on the AM/FM/CD. Other additions are availability of ABS with traction control and 4-wheel disc brakes, and moonroof as options on the LX (all standard on the EX); power heated mirrors standard on both LX and EX; center console enlarged, with full-sized armrest. Alloys remain standard on the EX. And here's the best part: prices drop $3500 to $4000!! How does that sound?

gregoryc1

Long term data is very important, but I would also like to know if the power train was a product of Toyota, Nissan or Honda, before I make the purchase. I think a Hyundai is nice vehicle, but I don't think that I want to take a chance on this product until more data is in on it's quality and resale value. Look at some of the postings on this site by the owners. Maybe it is a dealer service problem, or maybe it is the quality of the product, but in any case some people are having problems and the parent company does not seem to be sensitive to customer needs. -----Greg

backy

If you want data, take a look at CR's Annual Auto issue (due out in a month or so), which has reliability data going back seven years. The Elantra is rated Above Average in predicted reliability by CR. The Elantra's powertrain has never been an issue for reliability. And it is backed by a 10-year, 100,000 mile warranty, which should give you some piece of mind if you are worried about reliability of a Hyundai vs. Hondas etc. FYI, there hasn't been to my knowledge a general issue with Hyundai powertrains as there has the Toyota "sludge" issue and Honda automatic transmission problems in recent years.

blueiedgod

I know I may get flamed for this, but is it possible that reliability depends on the owner? Hyundai/Kia/Daewoo are low price entry level vehicle and as such attract people of certain economic status. Some of whom have never owned a car and may not understand the concept that purchasing a car also involves routine maitenance. These people may neglect to take the car in for scheduled service and may not notice minor prolems that may have been prevented before escalating into a major equipment failures. This is just a theory, I am basing on my observations.

pat

In my opinion that is an unfair and unwarranted generalization. You are going to have people who buy very inexpensive cars and go out of their way to maintain them immaculately, and you are going to have people who don't. And I'm sure that will be true across the spectrum of vehicle prices.

I seriously doubt the original price of the car is any kind of reliable predictor as to how the owner will take care of it and therefore how reliable the vehicle will be.

So instead of going off on trying to characterize people's behavior in this manner, let's stick to comparing these two specific vehicles, okay?

cartagram

Where can I find information (or predictions) on the next generation of Civic? I don't think the Future Civics forum has been as specific about details as those quoted by backy in #1044. Unless I missed the pertinent posts. Any suggestions?

pat

Your question will reach a broader audience of Civic enthusiasts if you ask it in a specific Civic discussion rather than a comparo - I'd post it in the Futures discussion you mentioned and maybe the Civic Sedans discussion. Just because the information in the Futures discussion hasn't yet been as specific as you'd like doesn't mean you shouldn't ask for that to happen.

You should be able to locate them using the Make/Model search on the left side of the page.

backy

Please understand that #1044 was tongue-in-cheek. My point was showing what Honda would need to do to the Civic to bring it up to where the Elantra is today. Sorry for any confusion.

I haven't seen much on the '06 Civic--it's still 18 months away and Honda is notoriously tight-lipped about new models. The most substantial thing I've seen is a comment by Motor Trend that the '06 Civic will be a "new generation on current platform." I think the "current platform" part is significant, if true. Also, Honda has said that all models sold in the U.S. would have standard ABS, side air bags, and side curtains by the end of 2006--so that would naturally include the '06 Civic.

280hp

yes, it certainly seems that the elantra wins on this front hands down.

i wonder though whether that just masks an inferior car.

on the other hand, it seems to me that honda is just seling civics on reputation...

gogophers1

I own an '02 Elantra which I bought new and continue to love, so I could take offense to such a claim. But I think there IS something to the idea that small, cheaper cars don't tend to last as long, but for reasons other than the assertion that people who own them are neophytes to car ownership and don't know how to maintain them.

Usually, it's young people who purchase these cars and they tend to drive them harder than say the type of buyer who opts for a Park Avenue - much more full throttle acceleration, hard braking, etc. Also, I think it's far more likely that these cars are owned by those living in urban settings where they are more apt to be subjected to the kind of stop-and-go traffic that makes a car with 30K on the odo drive and look more like it has 100K.

Thoughts????

280hp

@ least thats what the japanese have conditioned us to believe. eg corolla.

but the koreans may redefine the market. perhaps even cheaper but disposable cars. eg rio.

backy

Only if you choose to treat one that way. Otherwise there is no reason to believe a car like the Rio can't hold up as long as any other car, with proper care and maintenance. Anyway, a Rio is neither a Civic nor an Elantra.

baber1

My 99 Accent was considered a disposable car. I did the mainanence on it. The biggest problem I had was the automatic trans that failed at 94,000 miles. The trans was replaced for free under the 100,000 mile warranty. At 131,000 miles my disposable Accent was still in great shape. Because of the seat covers and steering wheel cover the interior was still in perfect condition. The paint still looked great. The only cosmetic problem I had was a little rust on the windshied wipers. I would still be driving it today if some fool hadnt ran a stop sign. Even then the air bags worked and I walked away with out a scratch after hitting an 85 Olds tank at 45 MPH. I replaced it with a new Elantra GLS a few days ago. I hope my new Elantra runs as well as our 99 Elantra that has 40,000 miles with no problems so far. I like Hyundai, they make cars that are a great value. Honda makes some great cars too, but I just think they are a little overpriced. This is just my opinion.

backy

I had some time to kill last night so I stopped into my local Honda dealer to check out the new Ody. (Nice--also pricey and with $2000 "ADM".) I saw a Civic EX coupe on the showfloor and looked at it. It was a "Special Edition" with nice-looking alloys and an 6-speaker MP3 unit. Sticker (w/o ADM) was almost $19,000! This was an automatic with a cloth interior. Last spring I bought a new '04 Elantra GT 5-door, loaded with automatic, moonroof, ABS/traction, and the standard GT features including leather, 8-way adjustable driver's seat, Kenwood 6-speaker MP3, alloys, 4-wheel discs, sport gauges and suspension, heated power mirrors, a real center console, and of course the Hyundai warranty. Price was $13,200 + T&L, including the first three years of scheduled maintenance. Plus the versatility of a 5-door hatchback. After seven months I've had zero problems with it, and it is a blast to drive, and gets mid-20s in town and 35-37 mpg on the highway (fully loaded). I can't see why anyone would pay $6000 more for a Civic, now that the Elantra's reliability record is nearly the same as Civic's.

mauto

I can't see why anyone would pay $6000 more for a Civic either. The Civic SE model is a joke and a way to lure back young drivers which will be too little too late. I think the EX's alloys look better than the spindly SE alloys that have been around on European Civics for years. The Europeans aren't fooled by the Civic pretending to be a spoty car and we shouldn't be either.