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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra



  • kymcampkymcamp Posts: 51
    Okay, I'm trying this again. This stupid board keeps not posting my message.

    Well, if everyone is finished criticizing Justin's spending habits and debating whether Accords are used as taxi cabs, let's get back to discussing small cars.

    Yesterday was the first in a two day test drive marathon that I did, with my father and various sales people as passengers.

    Car #1) 2001 Nissan Sentra XE, automatic transmission. MSRP $17,398 ($Canadian)

    Well equipped and comfortable seats, though my dad complained they were a bit narrow. The trunk is cavernous, and the controls well thought out. Howver, the light gray instruments with white lettering were difficult to see in bright sunlight. Legroom for rear seat passengers was next to nonexistant, and overall this car was cramped compared to the other two below. The engine was a little noisy (they didn't have an SE on the lot, which was what I was looking for). The brakes were really, really touchy making it hard to modulate a slight decrease in speed. The ride was suprisingly rough, I kept looking down wondering if the parking break was on. Aside from the engine noise, the cabin was very quiet. Adjusting the seats up and down was easy enough, but tiliting the wheel was an akward procedure. Nissan Canada does not offer a new grad rebate (which I am).

    Car #2) 2001 Volkswagon Golf GL 5-speed manual $19040 ($Canadian)

    Interior room best described as "cavernous". Even with the seat all the way back, my dad could sit behind quite comfortably with plenty of legroom. The flipping front seat allowed very easy access to the back in the two door model tested. The car feels as solid as a tank, and because of its weight it handled well in the brief snowfall we had during the testdrive. The keyfob with folding key is cool, and the electronically encoded keys with the standard security system and engine immobilizer make the Golf practically impregnanble to car thiefs. The downside to the electronic keys is they can't be duplicated except by the dealer and each key costs well over $200 to replace. Combined with the Fort Knox like security means whoe to those who lock their keys in or lose them. Seats are firm, but very comfortable. On the freeway I sort of wished for a sixth gear, it revs rather high at those speeds. Also, the clutch has to be pushed so far back a sixfooter has to stretch. The shifter is smooth, but its short which requires getting used to. Also, the location of reverse is rather bizzare (where 1st gear should be), but the shifter actually has to be pushed down before it will go into reverse to prevent accidentally going backwards from a stoplight. Acres of glass provide enourmous visibility, and deploying the hidden cupholder is kinda neat. This car was definitely the most luxurious of the three (an 8(!) speaker stereo is standard on the base model). Good thing that stereo is standard, because you'll need it to drown out the engine and surprising amount of exterior noise. The Golf is also a stern mistress, we started to run low on windshield wiper fluid and it let is know in a loud and authoritive tone. The 2 year bumper-to-bumper warranty is shorter than the other two, but it includes free maintenance. The 12(!) year anti-rust warranty shows how long VW thinks these cars will last.

    Car #3) 2001 Honda Civic sedan DX $17 300 ($Canadian)

    Well, actually I wanted to try the coupe. However, the saleslady couldn't find the coupe that matched the first key she grabbed, the second coupe she tried was still plastic wrapped. I started it only to find it had no gas. So we gave up and tried the sedan, since it would drive about the same. She took us over to a car that had "test drive car" painted on it along with the dealership's website address. The Civic was far more spacious than the Sentra, but far less spacious than the Golf. Seat comfort was resonable, but lower back support was a bit lacking. The instrument display was clean and efficient, and that shifter! I don't think I've ever driven a car that shifted more smoothly. Pickup and visibility are resonable, the suspension smoothed out the bumps admirably, and cabin noise was minimal. Rearward visibility is another thing though, backing into a parking space was hard, I almost felt blind. In driving feel the Golf feels bigger and heavier than it is, wheras the Civic feels airy and nimble just like an around the town car should feel like. It's comfort on long trips seems suspect though. Still, I can see why this car will probably again be a #1 seller. The car feels very solid, but not as solid as the Golf. I must admit I liked it a lot, it seems a friendly sort of car. I didn't like the previous generation at all though.

    Today I head off to Ford, Hyundai, Kia, GM, and Mazda. I'll let you know how I fare. I did a short test drive of an Elantra before, but the car was still plastic wrapped and I didn't drive anything else that day to compare it too. Now that I'll have test tried them all at the same time I should have a better feel for how they all compare.
  • I've been test driving and comparing all the Compact Sedans. I'll try to relate my findings.
    Prices based upon cars direct price (includes delivery price, options and rebates). All models tested where the 5 speed manual transmission.

    Nissan 01 centre GXE $13,293.00

    Only options picked where the floor mats. Comes standard with DC player, air, and power everything (doors, windows). I liked the instrument layout and the shifter worked nicely. Engine has plenty of low ram torque and shifting was not always necessary for passing. Build quality looked...Ok.. engine compartment not as pretty as some of the competition. Apperance was the weak point for the Nissan. Exterior is boring and interior was just ok looking for fit and finish. No arm-rest for the driver is a big negative for me because of freq long highway drives. Very small interior but seemed quite on short test drive. Back seat is the most cramped in leg room of all vehicles compared. Final verdict: I like the engine drive-train but not the rest of the car. Good gas milage (35 Highway) and the price is attractive.

    Corolla 01 S $13,669.00

    Very nice engine & gear shift operation. Best of the bunch. Awesome milage (41 HW). Interior design is pethetic compared to the competition. Little back seat room and the fit and finish was not the best (contrary to what the Automotive press says). Everything seemed cheaper, lighter gauge metal, cheap plastics and the design just was not as seemless as others. Noise level acceptable but suspension was mushy. Looks exterior Ok... interior worst of the bunch.
    Final verdict: I wish I could take the engine drive-train and leave the rest of the car.

    Mazda Protege ES 2000 $13,489

    Nice looking car. Sharp wheels and probably the best looking of all the compact cars (subjective). Liked the interior layout and drive position. The specs say it has a lot of room but it felt like one of the smaller cars (subjective). Gas milage is the worst of the bunch and insurance cost also. Test drive: Tight suspension. Can tell that they are going for more of the small sports car feel. Feel and hear more road noise than others. Good shifter feel and acceleration. Final verdict: I liked this car but not enough to buy it. It is the most expensive of the bunch (intial cost, insurance, gas milage). Ride is more aimed at sporty rather than comfort.

    Elantra 01 $12,174.00

    I was really surprised that I liked this car. Exterior looks are very nice (subjective) and the interior is excellent. Plenty of room, largest of the bunch based upon my perception. Roomy back-seat and the driving position is very nice. Great dash layout..very stylish. Looks like a much more expensive car. Build quality looks very tight and attention to detail is evident. Look under the hood ..very clean. Trunk is smallish but very nicely finished and the interior really looks well integrated. If I didn't know the brand name or price, I would have guessed that this was the most expensive car of the bunch. Drive was quite and suspension seemed to have the best balance of comfort vs performance for my driving habits. Engine has enough power but doesn't feel like the most powerful of the bunch. I would rather have low end torque than high end horsepower. Max HP is at something like 6000RPM (which I'll never see) and max torque at 4800RPM (which I rarely see). Also doesn't have the best gas milage (33 HW) but not the worst. As far as driving pleasure I would like to replace the drivetrain of this car with the Toyota and then you would have the perfect car. But, to the Elantra's credit, the engine drive train is by no means bad. Just average among the competition. The interior ergonomics make up for it. Final Verdict: Wrap it up. Least expensive by a good margin. Best warranty of the bunch by a good margin. My favorite car to spend time inside (important to me)of and great looks. The Hyundai reputation is the only weak point and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt based upon the warranty and the break in price.
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    Eeven though I don't like the fact that CR also tests Cars it is worth repoting what they said about 4 car comparisions.(Updated for 2001)

    Honda Civic, Corolla, Elantra, Cavalier,
    They rated Civic 1st, Elantra 2nd, Corolla & then Cavalier. There observation was that Civic is there top pic as FOcus is a reliability nightmare.

    Elantra was rated better than Corolla but Fuel Economy & braking found not very satisfactory.
    They also said that it was virtually impossible to get Elantra with ABS & Traction Control.
    Civic & Elantra were recorded same timing for 0-60
    Civic: 60-0 was 134, Elantra: 139
    Civic CR observed mpg: 22-41; Elantra : 16-34
    that is city/highway.

    They could not comment on the reliability as ELantar was all-new for 2001.

    Ergonamics: Civic & Elantra scored same though Civic was given slight edge for quality of switchgears & better linear response.

    Currently I have subscriptions to:
    Consumer Reports

    Isn't it funny for a computer professional(programmer)
  • hkchanhkchan Posts: 420
    "The Civic was far more spacious than the Sentra, but far less spacious than the Golf. "
    I must say I'm puzzled. I agree with the first but not the second. I drive a '99 Civic 4-Dr. I also test-drove a '01 Golf 4-DR and a '01Sentra recently. First of all, I'm 5'-5". In every case, the driver's seat is adjusted to my liking. I then drove the car to make sure the position is correct for me. I then get into the back seat. I can only comment on the leg/knee room. The Sentra and the Golf were equally tight. I had about an inch of knee room left. In my Civic, there was about 1.5" more knee room than in the other two.

    I also have the following numbers from the EPA. These of course should only be used as a guide. The most important thing is how it feels to you. The '99 Civic 4-Dr has 90 cu.ft. of interior room, 91 cu. ft. for the '01, 88 cu. ft. for both the the Golf and Sentra.

    On the rear leg room: 34.1 in. for the '99 Civic, 36.0 in. for the '01 Civic, 33.7 in. for the Sentra and 33.5 in. for the Golf.
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    I forgot RoadnTrack to mention
    Congrats CymCamp on ur decisin to go with Elantra.
    Everybody has different needs that is why we have so many choices here in us of a :)
  • kymcampkymcamp Posts: 51
    About the Golf spaciousness thing, I only sat in the driver's seat. It seemed far more spacious than the Civic. I didn't sit in the back, but my dad did so I relayed his opinion on it.

    Mazda Protégé LX Touring Edition $21300 (Canadian)

    This is the top of the line Protégé, with every available option. The car appeared small inside, but once inside it was quite spacious. It felt every bit as solid as the Golf, yet as nimble as the Civic. All I can say is that I really, really want it. It was as quiet as the Civic, but hard a very firm Euro feel. The car was black, and had the upgraded interior. The eight way adjustable seat was extremely comfortable, and even with the sunroof I had ample headroom (and I'm 6'). For some reason, the seat seems to slide farther back than the SE in the showroom. I can't find any faults to this car, except price. But it felt like it was worth every penny.

    Hyundai Elantra VE $19000 Canadian (as tested)
    This was the top of the line Elantra with several additional dealer options added such as (fake) wood trim, Ziebart tinted windows, a rather cool looking spoiler, mudflaps etc. Without the extras the car costs $17300. The seats are firm, but very comfortable. It had a nice, tight Euro feel, but not quite as much as the Mazda. The trunk was about midpack. Like kevperro1, the 140 hp engine didn't seem more powerful than the others, but it was very smooth and quiet. (much more than the Nissan and VW). The Hyundai feels like a big car inside, but I don't care much for the biege trim on the test car. I don't think I'd pay for the plastic wood either. Still this felt like a very solid car, and my father liked it despite wondering about how it would hold up in the long run (that old Excel we had is still remembered). Fit and finish were fine, but rather plain. I'd describe it as function over form. The Hyundai dealer has been selling Elantra's at a break-neck pace, but still the wait would only be about 2 weeks. ABS, traction control and the sunroof aren't available on the Canadian version, but at least we get a much better Clarion stereo compared to the cheapo stock stereo the American GLS gets.

    Pontiac Sunfire $18475 Canadian (as tested)

    We test drove a base red Sunfire w/air. Seating is comfy, the stereo sounds great, sporty looks, Gertrag transmission, well equipped it could have been tops. However the engine is incredibly noisy, twice as bad as the Golf. Of course, the car had only 100 km on it, so after breaking it in the car calms down a bit. The engine is still noisy though in my neighbor's Sunfire. The car is surprisingly roomy despite its sleek appearance, but the trunk is downright tiny. If only the engine wasn't so rough, it would be an excellent car. The low, low finincing is very tempting though.

    Didn't get to Ford, Kia, or Chrysler yet. That'll be Monday or Tuesday.

    Overall I'd rank the cars as follows

    1) Mazda
    2) Volkswagon
    3) Hyundai
    4) Pontiac
    5) Honda
    6) Nissan

    Don't be fooled by Honda's low standings. It's an excellent car. It just feels like a commuter car or runabout though, and I'm looking for something more. Other people with other requirements would rank things differently.

    Oh, and by the way the Golf is actually a Jetta in disguise. They are identical mechanically and even interiorwise right down to the dashboard. The Jetta's six inches longer though.

  • kymcampkymcamp Posts: 51
    Sorry about all the spelling mistakes, should have read it over first.
  • hkchanhkchan Posts: 420
    My conclusion is that if your dad is 6' tall like you, It's almost impossible for him to sit behind you in the Golf or Sentra (or Corolla).
    On the Protege, what did you mean by "...., but hard a very firm Euro feel". Can I assume it's the 2000 model, not the 2001 that's coming out as we speak?

    Edit: Never mind. I think you meant to say "...., but had a very firm Euro feel".
  • kymcampkymcamp Posts: 51
    That's right, "had a firm Euro feel".

    My dad's only 5' 7". He says he couldn't even move his legs in the Sentra, but was comfortable enough in the Golf. I couldn't fit in the Sentra's back seat, I could in the Golf but the seat wasn't very far back. However, since I'm only one person I don't care all that much about the back seat. But I found even the front seat in the Sentra small, making it hard to find a comfortable driving position. In the Mazda I sat both back and front, and found it fine even with the seat all the way back. The Hyundai and Honda about as comfortable in the back, but there seemed to be less headroom in the back of the Hyundai (but lots in the front). I didn't even attempt to sit in the back of the Sunfire coupe, it's definitely for small kids or pets only.
  • kymcampkymcamp Posts: 51
    Yes it was a 2000 model. The 2001 gets a slightly revised front end and a bigger 2.0 L engine, but the dealer said they weren't in yet (and they only had two 2000's on the lot). Other than that it's pretty much the same car (but prices went up a few hundred dollars).
  • j1j2j3j1j2j3 Posts: 3
    You know, I think we should compare same price points.

    Is a Civic better that a Sonata in any way?
    They cost about the same practically.

    The Sonata is bigger , has more power, more features... everything is better.

  • Ford Focus 01 Sedan $13,291

    I don't like the looks. Roomy inside but very funky looking. The stereo is the best I've heard in the compact class. I drove the base level engine with 5-speed. It drove...ok but nothing that really touched me. Overall, I don't like the style and I've had bad experiences with Ford in the past. I'm willing to give the Elantra a break on reputation due to the warranty but the Ford doesn't have that going for it.

    On the Protege, did you know that there is $1500 rebate on the 2000 models? Trying to make room for the 2001 and I don't think dealers want to be stuck with them. Slowing economy... can anyone say buyer's market?
  • elantra00elantra00 Posts: 225
    The elantra has the best stock system by far of any compacts Ive seen. Im talking about the upgraded stereo with CD w/ separate tweeters and midbass. Compared to the civic or corollas stereo, the elantra's is much clearer and you can really crank it up without distortion. It was so good, I just wired my 600 watt kenwood amp and 10" Pioneer sub right to the stock head unit. It sounds great! Of course, cars like the VW Jetta has a better stereo as you go up in to the 20,000 price range. 8 speaker system in that car is sweet. a proud owner of a Hyundai Elantra, if you have the money, I would go for the golf. If I had around 18k to spend, thats what I would have gotten. Beautiful styling inside and out. excellent to love the blue backlit displays. Solid as a rock, nimble handling. If you haggle, you might be able to get that car with the 1.8 turbo in your price range. For that, I rather have a golf then a civic EX. The civic is too boring and dull w/ a overpriced hefty price tag. The germans build the best cars hands down! :) That would be my choice. Thats my next car :)
  • kymcampkymcamp Posts: 51
    To think some people believe that small cars must be inferior. I really wonder about the SUV set (sorry Justin) riding around in there massive vehicles that are trying to be "car-like" while drinking enough gas to make Barney Gumble a model of moderation.

    It's hard to choose one of my top three. The Mazda was incredibly fun to drive, the Golf oozed style and the Elantra was so smooth. Really, the Hyundai's engine was only beaten in terms of quiteness and silkiness by the Honda. I mentioned that I'm trying Ford, Chrysler and Kia next but I doubt any of them will bump one of the top three. I wish I could buy all three cars.
  • kymcampkymcamp Posts: 51
    that should be "quietness and silkiness by the Honda".
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    just arrived, must take longer to make its way to the Frozen Tundra. The Elantra review was notable I think because it's the first glowing review CR has ever had on a Hyundai. Also because it clearly points out that the Elantra is now competitive with the best small cars, and tops most of them, for thousands less. It was good to see the initial quality was on a par with Honda and Toyota, matching the Civic and besting the Corolla in sample defects--another sign that Hyundai is getting its quality act together. Sobers, too bad they didn't review your favorite model, the LX, but they had to go with the EX because of its ABS--CU has a fetish about ABS. Would be interesting to see how they rated the LX vs. the Elantra, given that the braking would have been more even (non-ABS on both) and the Elantra should have topped the LX in acceleration, and maybe on driver's comfort with the 8-way adjustable seat. I personally don't see how they can rate the Focus ahead of the Civic (or the Elantra for that matter); I guess they don't care if parts fall off the car after a couple thousand miles.
  • hkchanhkchan Posts: 420
    This is a common misconception of Consumer Reports' Overall Ratings. It has nothing to do with reliabilty, but in order to get a "check mark", meaning the model is recommended, it has to have at least an average predicted reliabilty rating. As you can see, the Focus is rated ahead of the Civic under "Overall" Ratings, but it's not recomended.
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    That is one thing I don't understand of Honda, why ABS is not std on LX Accords & Civics. Prob'ly cost would spread across various models
    & woiuld come cheaper on Ex too.

    At least they should offer it as an option as on Accord Lx. We are having worst winter in past few years & ABS been proved helpful in more than 5-7 situations where I can feel that without it I would have ended up in fender-bender. Even though u drive carefully not all drivers are that courteous !!

    Thanks god my 2000 Accord SE has ABS as std.
    Is just doesnot improve on braking distance, also helps car in straight line when road gets slippery
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    Yes, apart from the ABS, Civic LX makes much more sense to me than EX. The diff of almost 2K makes EX a lesser value than LX. (Though u get major chuck of that thru resale)
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    no apologies needed :). I really do like all types of cars. And, I did not get an "SUV" that is meant to be like a Honda CR-V's for me, thank you. I got a Pathfinder. The best SUV for $30k that anyone's money can buy. Period. It is a real truck that can go anywhere, do anything, is faster than most cars (240hp, 255 torque) and looks decent too!

    I love small cars too. They are fun to drive, you can trash them and not feel guilty, and they sip gas. The SUV in me is mainly out of utility and safety. I know this can be debated heavily, but in snow and rain and floods (Which I have been in more than I would care to remember) I just feel safer, less anxious, if I am in the Pathfinder. Can't help it.....

    If your price point is $20k or under, you MUST go with the VW. Any VW, even a base 2000 model golf with manual windows, has more class and substance than any of the other cars. My opinion....who cares about the 115 engine. The Hyundai or Hondas or Neons out there really are not THAT MUCH FASTER....the GOLF is safe, truly a beautiful car in 2 or 4 door or Jetta form, and the interiors and exteriors are put together better than most Infiniti's and all Hondas and Toyotas in my opinion.
  • kymcampkymcamp Posts: 51
    Good advice.It's still tough though, considering how I liked all three cars. Actually, the fact that you have a Pathfinder excludes you from that SUV set I mentioned (which was why I apologized). After all, Pathfinders and Isuzus and 4runners make no pretensions of being a car. But it seems the vast majority of so called SUV's on the market are nothing more glorified minivans pretending to be off roaders.
  • avsfanavsfan Posts: 1
    For what it's worth I used to sell guitars... The BEST guitars back at the beginning
    of time were the Gibsons and Fenders built in the USA. Then they started importing
    cheaper models from Japan (cheaper labor etc)... After 3-4 years the quality went
    WAY up as well as the price... My Takamine lists at 1899 and 10 years ago it
    would have been a $500 price tag at best.

    So then they went to Korea once Ibanez, Tak etc were considered legitimate 'proffesional quality' guitars. At first the guitars coming out of Korea were crap again, but after a year
    or two, they too improved radically but the prices started creaping up as well (see the pattern here?). Before I quit they went to Indonesian or some African country (I can't recall) and I sent back the entire batch of 50 guitars since they looked more like archery bows rather than guitars..
    But if they kept at it, I imagine they improved the quality. If you stay at something long enough
    unless you are Homer Simson or the Chicago Cubs, you almost HAVE to improve somewhat..

    By the way I have a 1990 CRX SI (voted THE most fun car you can drive in 1988 by Automobile magazine and probably still holds true today) . I just bought a 92 Pathfinder (since it seemed to handle the best out of everything I drove). I've totalled 5 Hondas.. Not something to be necessarily proud of... But the ONLY way they break is if you don't put oil in them or drive them into trees or other cars... Total mileage: 1st civic: 90k brakes and clutch -crash, 2nd: civic 70k 100% stock -crash, 3rd: civic 143k tires/brakes clutch, alternator (due to stereo amp), 4th: 89 accord SI 194k tires/clutch/timing belt/ power window motor (water leaked in after
    10 years). This one did lose 5th gear at 120k which totally surprized me... Poor oil flow
    to 5th gear and lots of hwy miles I was told loosened/warped the shift fork which eventually broke..

    5th: 80k (first CRX ( rolled it) all still stock). .. Current CRX is at 126k and still buries the needle at 125mph (Just ask the judge) and other than tires and brakes, timing belt and battery is still 100% STOCK parts (ok I forgot, the muffler rotted after 10 years) and it could use new CV joints and a valve adjustment. Also I don't think the stock clutch is going to hold out much longer due to my heavy driving.

    Castrol syntec and prolong fuel treatment help a bunch! ) If you don't drive like I do, a Honda
    could last you a lifetime. Are you listening DETROIT?
  • elantra00elantra00 Posts: 225
    wow avsfan, totalled 3 cars and pulled over for going wonder our insurance rates are so high! ;)
  • kymcampkymcamp Posts: 51
    We'll the decisions are still hard. I didn't get around to those other test drives yesterday but I'm going to tonight. Then on Thursday I'll test drive my three top choices again (at different dealerships) to help decide.

    I looked at a Y2K Elantra, it's an entirely different car then the 2001. It seems well built, but somewhat cheap. In contrast, the 2001 seems as though it should cost more than it does. The only thing is the metal's a bit thin on the Elantra (in comparison to my other two choices). That doesn't mean it isn't a well built car, but it might dent and ding a little more easily. I guess Hyundai had to cut corners somewhere to keep the Elantra cheaper than the competition. Still, Hyundai has finally hit the nail on the head with it's latest generation of cars. The Santa Fe especially seems to be changing minds about Hyundai. Of course, that probably means in a few years Hyundai will be overpriced like all the other imports.

    You know, one of the things that impressed me most about the Hyundai was that it showed the position the auto was in on the dashboard. It seems a rare feature these days. I mean, you could look down at the shifter to see what position it was in, but in between the tach and the speedometer it had a series of bright green LED's with the current mode circled. It was a thoughtful touch by Hyundai. I'd still prefer a manual though. I could step down to the GL model, but it lacks airconditioning which is a $2000 option. Apparently the entire dashboard has to be removed to add A/C in the Hyundai. At least in the states the one model can be equipped with either transmission.
  • kymcampkymcamp Posts: 51
    Since I'm test driving the Candian models, I should mention the equivalent American model

    Protege GT(2001)-don't know if there is an American equivalent.
    Protege LX-identical
    Protege SE-same as ES (why they're reversed is beyond me, but in Canada SE used to be for the "Special Edition" model)
    Protege DX-identical

    Elantra VE-similar to GLS automatic
    Elantra GL-no equivalent

    Golf GL-identical but Canadian version doesn't have A/C standard (money grab on VW's part, since almost everyone orders it).
    Golf GLS-identical
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    Maybe VW thinks that standard a/c on their least expensive car in Canada is dumb. Is the price lower because of no a/c than the U.S. Golf GL, with standard a/c?

    Maybe they think, like me, that Canada is this cold icy place and that some could live without a/c?? :)
  • kymcampkymcamp Posts: 51
    Well, it is cheaper, but not by much. Still if everyone is going to order it, why not make it standard?

    The joy of living in Canada is that it *is* an icy cold place in the winter, but almost as hot as Texas in the summer. In the nation's capital (where I live) temperatures can get as low as -20 Farenheit with the windchill, yet in the summer it can reach 104. Generally though the summer temp is in the low to mid 80's. We always seem to have a heat wave though when my cousin from Ft. Worth flys up.

  • Just curious. I was qouted $16100 (w/o Tax & TTL) for a Manual 2001 Honda Civic EX Sedan. No other charges. How does it stack up. I bought from the dealer before and he says he is gving me a great deal. Please enlighten me.
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    anything from Invoice to +300$ is a very good deal
    I guess, Honda will declare special APR in the month of Feb/March. U can take advantage of that too. Honda has target of 350K Civics this year.
  • kymcampkymcamp Posts: 51
    I'll briefly summarize the rest of the cars:

    Ford Focus: wonderful car but too many recalls
    Chyrsler Neon: Not enough headroom
    Kia Sephia: cheap
    Toyota Echo: ugly and weird

    Today I test drove my top three again, back to back. The only difference was that I got a 2001 Protégé this time instead of a 2000 (they just came in this week). The new 2001 model doesn't drive any differently, even though the engine has been upped to 2.0L (you'd notice it in an automatic though). However it is far more stylish than the previous generation both outside and inside. It stands the middle ground between the Golf and Elantra both in perception and in price, so it will probably be my choice, but don't make any bets yet. Odd how my top three choices managed to be in the low, middle, and high parts of my price range.

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