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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra



  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    No I am comparing Lx with Elantra. Where the diff is 2K when LX lacks 15inch vs 14inch, Keyless Entry.

    Keyless Entry I got it for 95$ for my friend. Civic also has vehicle immobilizer. Tape is standard on LX. ($344 option package for Elantra)

    Anybody on budget wouldn't want to have sunroof on Elantra I guess, so let us not compare EX vs Elatra with Sunrrof package. Also Elantra has put on 300Lbs more than 2000 model which offsets the HP turn it hurts the mpg.

    Would be interesting to see lbs/hp ratio.
    In case of Civic I don't think u will need to use warranty after 3Y/36K for any major problem given the reputation. Initial model problem should noit be given high waigtage. 2000 Civic had almost zero problems. It was prob'ly the best vehicle on road in terms of reliability. Same as CRV(based on Civic) has the best reliability in segment.

    Elatra in 2000 (last year in cycle) model was failryl problematic given the examples I saw.

    Other than the 2-2.5K cash which gets distrubuted over 3-5 years for me is worth for the improvements. Tha fact that I get back almost all that Extra $$ I spend for Civic afetr I am done with it the sweet topping over it.
    Yes, Interest u can have it. But nobody pays cash for cars, so the diff is really 30-40$ per month for Civic which I would justify.
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    With a perios of 3/4 months these problems will get resolved for trouble free 3/4 year ahead of the model cycle of the Civic. So I wouldn't worry about it much. Regarding warranty, the best is which is never used. Remember Hyndai HAS to give/support their vehicles with such warranty otherwise it wouldn't be easy for them to sell the vehicles. It doesnot necessarily shows Hyndai's confidence but reflects poor confidence of the consmers in the brand. One of my friend as I mentioned got 96 Elantra with 38K mileage, Tranny went just a month back(Stranded in the left lane on the highway!!) Damage: $1600.
    He got it for $3600 as used Civic was much expensive...Now what he has..??
  • liufeiliufei Posts: 201
    The DX is A typo, I knew you're comparing LX with Elantra, don't know why I put DX on the previous post, must be lack of sleep. But all the prices comparison are for LX,EX and Elantra GLS.
    Tape is standard with Elantra too, the $344 is for the keyless entry+security system and cruise

    You said after 3/4 month the Civic will be trouble free for the next 3-4 years. I can also say the same will happen with the Elantra since 2001 model is also the 1st model year. The difference is, when there is a problem 3-4 years from now (there's always the possibility), Civic owner will have to fix it themselves (or fork the $600 extended warranty), while the Elantra has the warranty to fall back on.

    Sorry to hear what happen to your friend. There's no doubt older Hyundai has bad reputation. But if thats happen on a 99+ Elantra, he will be cover by the warranty. Not so if it happens to a 2001 Civic, and there's always possibility it will happen (example: 2000 Accord has some kind of transmission defect on the V6 model). Personally, I prefer to buy an extended warranty along with used car, just to be safe.

    Its pretty obvious we have difference in opinions, lets just wait a few years down the road and see which one of us will be happier at the end. ^__^
  • Dear Liufei:
    In reading your post, you appear to be a strong proponent for the Elantra 2000. Prior to purchasing my '00 Elantra, I literally struggled for over 4 months before making my decision to go with the '00 Elantra. (your price comparisions I believe is accurate).
    Having owned my Elantra now for 6 months, I have only grown to love my Elantra even more. This is an exceptional car, but I do have two observations. First: The engine noise is definately a bit pronounced, but clearly much more powerful than the Civic. This is especially noticable when you are using the air conditioner and carrying passengers (This is where you begin to really appreciate the Elantra's 140hps). Second: Elantra's suspension definately "clumps over the bumps" (Car & Driver '00 Review), and could use more refinement in suspension tuning.
    I disagree with you in that I believe that the Civic's quality fit and finish and almost flawless quality control, remains unsurpassed by any subcompact auto manufacturer. I do however strongly agree with you that Civic's inflated prices ($3,000 and up), does not make it a good choice. When I looked at the Civic the the dealer, I nearly fell off my seat when and a 4-Dr. Civic w/basic equipment costed almost 16K.
    Given Hyundai's incredible warranty, appealing prices (I Paid $12,145.00), fully loaded including alarm system + Cruise control, the choice was finally clear to me.
    In Short, Civic is a better car, but no longer an appealing one given its inflated prices and limited options. If my Hyundai ages as well as the Civic in the next few years, Honda is going to have a major competitor to contend with in the future.

    Robert MSEd.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Just got back from vacation in Austin, TX and read all the posts since 12/23--whew! Now I know why acuragrl hasn't posted here lately - she's having too good a time reading about everyone beating up on justin for buying a Civic coupe. Personally I hope you enjoy your Civic, justin. I think some people might be a little jealous of someone who can trade cars on a whim and not mind taking a financial beating.

    Also enjoyed the discussion between sobers et. al. re Civic vs. Elantra. Thanks, sobers for your answers to my questions, although I still don't see all the Elantras on rental car lots like you do. I also agree with liufei that you must compare the Civic EX to the '01 Elantra to make it even, based on the equipment on the Elantra (add the sunroof to the Elantra and the side bags to the Civic to make it even closer). Re price comparisons, I scanned the end-of-year car ads in the Austin paper while I was there, and the real-world prices (what dealers will actually sell the cars for) were consistently $4000-4500 more for the Civic EX than the Elantra with comparable equipment. A good negotiator might be able to do a little better, but in my experience these end-of-year offers are usually at the low end--got to clear those lots off.

    bob343 summed up my feelings pretty well on the Civic vs. Elantra--the Civic is a great car, better (at least in some areas like mpg and engine smoothness) than the Elantra but not worth the extra money. BTW, bob343, the '01 Elantra's suspension is improved over the '00--it's definitely NOT "clumps over bumps" but quite smooth. The engine noise is also reduced (new motor mounts) and the fit and finish is excellent, very close to if not equal to the Civic. Even with the extra weight for '01, the Elantra still outruns the Civic 0-60, 8.4 secs vs. 9.0 per Motor Trend 1/01.

    Hope everyone has a great 2001 in their Elantras or Civics or whatever they are driving!
  • I am looking at buying this make for myself as it much cheaper than the Civic or the Corolla and also that this might end being a 2nd car.

    I need some assistance in the value that i need to cough up on this one. Had been to the dealer today, wherein he quoted me a price for 13.3K for a 2001 Elantra with fully loaded features like CD player, Keyless entry+security and cruise control. I noticed that a member(Bob343) had mentioned his buying price as 12.1K . I indicated my willingness to part with 12.5K for it. Do u feel thar i shud wait for the dealer to come down to 12.5K and/or do u hv any other suggestions for me ??
    Wud highly appreciate ur inputs on this.

    Thank you
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    Regarding 0-60: Civic is been tested 8.3(EX) Sec by Auto World Weekly (with Manual Xmission).

    In my opinion, Civic EX is not a better value as for another $1000 plus some change would get u in the Accord lx. I can't understand people getting economy cars with SunRoof & all sorts of extras. Ofcourse EX Civic has ABS, Disk breaks, Better Audio(??). But Civic LX makes more sense to me. Also Elantra loaded with $344 package is close to Civic LX except the wheels, Keyless whereas Civic has immobiliser. Keyless is 95$(dealer cost-with installed labor). So the diff is around 2K. (I don't think 14inch vs 15inch shoud make a hell lot of diff) which gives u better build quality, MUCH better Brand-Equity, Resale, Reliability. The initial Extra amount i almost gauranteed to be returned upon resale. So what u r missing really is interest on 2000 which is also not justified given that nobody pays cash for the cars
    So It is up to everybody to decide whether they want to put extra INITIALLY. Better mpg(imp thing when gas reaches 1.80), low Maintenance is added plus. Also Civic is sold in a hell lot of different body choices & trims.

    Hyndai is doing good job of selling cars here in US & also in other parts of the world.(My motherland has seen Hyndai selling vehicles at record place & doing a LOT of damage to Suzuki which was favored by the Federal Govt)

    Santro(Small Car, Accent, Elantra, Sonata are really good offerings from this automaker BUT it would take it reliable & confident operation of 20-25 years to reach what Honda/Toyota have done.

    Currently THAT $2000 is worth of investment for me
    After 3-4 years I don't want to sell Elantra to find myself without prospective buyer resulting a rediculously low-tread-in value for a dealer. used Civic on the other hand is sold within a week after advertisement at a very respectable value.

    Civic is an outstanding compromise between practicality(mpg, maintenance, resale, reliable) & performance. Addition of Si would be a perfect marriage of these factors.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    to the Elantra. First, list prices for comparably-equipped cars:

    Elantra: $13,334 with Package 2 (cruise, keyless entry with anti-theft alarm). Note that Elantra has $500 rebate; no rebate available now on Civic. Price after rebate: $12,834.

    Civic LX 4dr: $15,700 with side air bags.

    Features on Elantra that are missing on Civic LX 4dr: remote keyless entry with anti-theft alarm, 140 hp DOHC (vs. 115), 15" wheels/tires, 8-way adjustable driver's seat, heated mirrors, illuminated entry, padded armrest with bi-level storage, rear anti-roll bar, 5/60 full warranty, 10/100 powertrain warranty. Question marks (not mentioned by Edmunds): does LX have cassette standard? tach? variable intermittent wipers? Also, ABS with traction control and power sunroof are available on Elantra if you want them, but are not available on Civic LX.

    Features on Civic LX 4dr that are missing on Elantra: micron air filter (although other posts have mentioned that it is available on overseas models and can be installed in US models), "immobilizer" (offset by Elantra's anti-theft alarm), 2dr choice (moot for 4dr buyers like me).

    So based on current list prices, including rebates, Elantra is almost $3000 less than Civic LX. To make the LX more comparable to the Elantra, you would need to add the larger wheels and tires (probably would set you back $400, less whatever you can get for the old wheels and tires), the keyless entry with alarm ($95 seems low, but I'll take your word for it), 8-way driver's seat (Recaro? price??), and a few other bits plus an extended warranty (let's say $750 for that, although I think that's low). So let's say roughly $1000+ for extras. Now we're at a $4000+ difference, apples-to-apples--and the LX still has the 115 hp engine (with admittedly better mpg, but with 25 less hp it should have better mpg). That may not be big money to some buyers, but it is to me because of what I can do with it (kids' college funds at 15% return).

    I agree that Civic is "an outstanding compromise of practicality and performance." But as a two-time Civic owner, I believe the Elantra is an even better compromise, because it offers better performance and is also more practical to buy. Buyers have reported on Edmunds Town Hall getting 2001 Elantras for under $11K. That makes it an incredible bargain. Hyundai has learned a lot in the 15 years they've been selling cars in the U.S. Based on where they are today, I venture that it won't take them 5-10 more years to equal the Japanese. They're real close right now.
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    Hyundai's are cheaper than Hondas. Why is this point being made a topic. Hyundai's are cheaper, less expensive, whatever you want to call it.

    That said - anyone that pays almost $16k for a Civic LX is out of there mind. In the US you can get EX's for under $15 (manual tranny four doors), those have ABS and sunroof standard....

    But, yes, in general Hyundai's are cheaper than Hondas.

    We can all accept that right? It's the new year...let's agree on SOMETHING! :)

    Hope everyone has a good 2001 BTW...
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    U r proving my point with $500 rebate. So whoever got Elantra when it did not have rebate is already has $500 dis-advantage in the market.
    I will take bare invoice prices when comparing cars & not the rebates. SOme delaer can get rid of cars below invoice. Let us talk about bare invoice. So the diff IS 2K.
    - Yes LX has cassete standard. Keyless instaled in 95$(Got LX for 2 of my friends).
    - 8-Way adjustments is a stretch as an advantge. Is it Power operated or manual ? It counts as an advantge only if it is power seat.
    - Heated Mirrors; Yes it is Elantra's advantage
    - padded armrest with bi-level storage,
    rear anti-roll bar, ==> Do U REALLY THINK these are countable advantges or it just shows up when u compare it on Hyndai's site or carsidrect etc ?
    - Civic has Double Wisbones in the rear -:)
    Bones don't need anti-roll bars.
    - Yes Lx has tach/intermitent wipres/Cassete std

    - I don't think u should spend something to get one more inch of rubber on the wheels. It is non-issue. 13 vs 15 would have been a point. 14 vs 15 is just....

    Regarding HP yes u r right but power-to-Waight ratio offsets Elantra's advantage. Also 8-10 mpg is a huge change of $$ u save every year. So is the safety which is a home run for Civic family buyers. Better build quality(said to be the best in class) Better interior materials
    Regarding warranty: We know it all, without warranty Hyndai won't even sell. Which is not true with Civic. 3-36 is quite a good warranty.
    My friend had Honda care for 600. 7 year-1K miles
    Transferable, refundable etc etc.
  • This is an excellent comparison!!! Let me start off with my background. I am currently a Honda owner (98 Accord, 2K CR-V) and I have the uttmost faith in the the quality and reliability of these vehicles as well as the full line of Honda/Acura products (excluding the Pisspoor). However, I too believe that Hyundai has done a complete 180. I recently visited the Bayside Expo center in Boston and viewed the new vehicles for the other big H (It was the first booth as you walked in). In my honest opinion, that new Sante Fe is the nicest vehicle in the price range and not what I expected! Same goes with the new XG300. WOW!!!

    My past experience with Hyundai was an 88 Excel sedan, 86 Excel hatchback, (?) Scoupe and a 94 Accent. The Excel had 108,000 miles and was about as crude as they get. Awful acceleration, handiling, fuel economy, noise, I couldn't even hold 70mph on the highway. The Excel hatchback was even worse. They both leaked, stalled at lights, leaked oil, and actually in the 86 the clip holding the gearbox broke so the stick could actually sink into the floor, and if you looked underneath the car, the gearbox would be close to the ground!!! The Accent was better, but smaller. It was the most ridiculous thing to accelerate. It ran out of revs so fast that I was in forth gear by the time I was at 40mph. I drove a scoupe as well, although I don't recall the year. That was actually a pretty decent vehicle. It had decent acceleration and handled nice too.

    Back to the present, after seeing these two cars at the autoshow has given me a new appreciation for the other big H. I have respect in a company that at 1 time I would not be caught dead owning. But, like some others on this forum, only time will tell. I do see a couple of older Hyundai products on the road, but not many. I see a ton of HOnda's on the road, old, new, ancient... In fact I work with three people who own pre-90 Accords. All of them are daily drivers and run like brand-new. My 98 is at 85K and I've had the brakes done, that's it. I'm expecting 200K+.

    And No, I'm not hear to say that if it isn't Honda, it's junk. I did however, purchase because of the name. Why not? If the reputation is to go 200K+ with tires, brakes and oil changes then I want a piece of it. If Hyundai suddenly builds a reputation for building cars that can go 200K+ then I might consider jumping ship. But we can't sit here and say that they're not trying.
  • liufeiliufei Posts: 201
    Been away enjoying new year, hopes everyone has a GREAT new year!!

    I don't think I qualify as a strong proponent for Elantra. But in the case of Elantra vs Civic, yes, I more than agree that Elantra represents a better value than the Civic. I can't agree more with your thought. The Civic is a great car, but at its present price, the Elantra represent a much better value to me than Civic.

    Good point on the comparison. The real market seemed to inflate the Civic's prices even more. When I was looking for cars, the Civic prices are considerable higher than any other compact (even the Corolla), with the exception of VW Jetta. And I do agree AcuraGRL must be laughing after seeing the pummelling that justin got. ^_^

    I don't think anyone will doubt that Elantra is cheaper than Civic. The question remains whether Elantra is a better VALUE than Civic.

    What is your point with the rebate? Honda also has their special financing plan from time to times (3.9%APR,etc), so ppl that doesn't get it also missing out. Also, why you said 14 vs 15 won't make a difference? If thats the case, even Accord will stick at 14 instead adding the extra cost of 15 or 16' tire. Its going to cost Civic's owner $400+ to get those 15 in the aftermarket.
    Regarding HP:
    Elantra: 18.82lbs/hp
    Civic LX: 21.43lbs/hp
    Civic EX: 20.18lbs/hp
    As you can see, Elantra still has the advantage in power to weight ratio.
    As for warranty, your friend just spend an extra $600 that added to the price differential, making the Elantra even a better value.
    On totally different note, if not mistaken, you said that Hyundai is gaining marketshare from Suzuki in your motherland. I'm guessing thats India. How's Honda doing in there? I haven't heard of Honda holding a large chunk of the market outside of the US.
  • liufeiliufei Posts: 201
    Assuming you talking about an auto Elantra with package 2, I think $12.5K is attainable. It might cost some haggling since it is right around invoice price (including the $500 rebate).
    I always told near the end of the month, and the end of a day is better time to buy a car, because the dealer wanting to meet end-of-month quota,etc.

    Check out the Hyundai Elantra 2 topic here in Edmund, there're some ppl just recently purchasing their Elantra, so you should be able to figure out whats a reasonable price is.
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    My point is why would u like to go to 15inch wheels when 14inch come standard ? It would cost almost THE same for Honda to put 15inch instead of 14. My point is what would u do with 14inch wheels when u put on 15inch ?? i.e even 15inch requitres $400, 14inch aftermarket would also require close to $400 !! SO the value is not that much with the wheels.

    Power to wght ratio is just slightly better for Elantra. Additional cost for civic WILL be recovered in resale after 3-5 years.
    Yes, Civic is costlier than Corolla by atleast $500 but u have to always watch options when u want to purchase any car. Camry XLE 4 Cyl can be optioned out to the level where EX-V6 Accord comes !! XLE V6 Camry optioned goes near 3.2 TL!!

    So the point is whether the INITIAL investment is worth ? APR or even dealer incentive is different than outright rebate. Honda NEVER gives rebates....not even on Passports. Dealer Incentive is offered by Honda which dealer decides whether to share or not given the market demand-supply. Which keeps very good lock on the brand equity & resale values of the cars.

    Honda is doing very well in India as their target is not small cars. Honda City compared with Opel(GM) Astra, Mitsu Lancer & sells very well, outpacing targets easily. Price Range:
    700K Rs to 100K Rs (1$ = 46 Rs)

    Hyndai there is also competing on the cost AND Technology but in small car segement with Santro & Accent yet to put Elantra in market.

    India's law requires makers to produce/assemble cars in India, imports will be allowed after 2002
    (UK-Accords will make it to India after that) :)

    Honda is 2nd now iat Home i.e Japan. Displacing Nissan for 2000 !! UK market share will go up with the new Civic & to be redesigned Accord. They have VERY aggressive plans of 60% growth in other parts of the world !!
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    Was that a "pummelling" that I got? That was easy! I can handle that...;)

    It is interesting that we always get away from the discussion of cars here. This is NOT a forum about money/finances, is it? Everyone talking about value, money, trade in value, etc. No one person can decide for another what a good value is, or what a "better value" is, or what a lot of money for someone is. To some, $200 is a lot of money. To others, $2k is a lot of money. I really do think that people that want to pay less, buy the Hyundai. That is what I did. When I decided I had more money, I paid more, to get more. No one can really argue that....We should really only be talking about tangible, black and white stuff. Engine performance, ride quality, stuff like that. In the market place, Hyundai equals quality at a low price. Honda means quality at a higher price. But - most would agree that you get a more refined product. Not necessarily better performing (except gas mileage), but just......hard to explain...more refined, if a little boring at times. I must say, with the Hyundai vibration and noise, I rarely got bored. Annoyed - yes. Bored - not really.

    On another note - does the Civic now have the Accord steering? It is sooo light and easy, very unlike my 97 Civic and the 2000 Elantra. I think I read that the Civic now has the variable assist steering? That true??
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    Is symbolised by 2001 Civic IMHO.
    Enough power, Good mpg, Well Equipped, upscale, Interior Room, price, Reliability, Resale etc Not to mention world class fit-finish (10 times lesser gaps than 2000 Civic which was bencmark of build quality !!)

    It is up to everybody to decide whether they need
    Civic for extra 2000-2500 bucks, major chunck of which is recovered after resale.

    My friend put an add for 89 Civic with 90k+ mileage, Asking price: $4400 !! (No sunroof etc, Auto) This is just rediculous that within 2 days he finalized sale for 3950 !!
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    Resulted in the worst rating to Hyndai & Volkswagen regarding intial quality. Problems reported per 100 cars was very high for Hyndai.
  • liufeiliufei Posts: 201
    You bring up a good point regarding value. Its true "value" is perceived differently from person to person. But separating the price issue away from the car as a whole also take out an important consideration point for people that looking for a car. Afterall, why wouldn't you get the Jetta instead of the Civic? I bet price has something to do with it as well.
    Yeah, you didn't get pummelled. What you get is a 1-2 hit combo! ^__^

    Well, I don't know where you lived, but I say your friend did pretty dang good being able to fetch near retail value for a car thats more than 11 years old. Either that or he snatch an uniformed buyer. In here, 92 Civic usually run for around $4K. Personally, I would've never spend 4K for a 11 yr old car. I spent that much for a 90 Corolla back in 96.
    Hyundai and other Korean model does fare poorly in JD Powers. Same thing with Volkswagen, although can you really say the Civic is better than the Jetta?
    Also, you're wrong about Honda never offering rebates. At least here a few months ago, the dealership has the a $500 rebate for the 2000 civic, as well as for the 2000 Accord. I saw the same thing last year. It usually happen right before or at the time the new model year comes out
    Its clear that you pretty much have your mind set on the Civic as the right car and willing to fork the differences. Just try to understand that other ppl have different views and for them Elantra is much better than the Civic.

    For a side by side comparison view, check out this link @ carpoint:
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Gee, justin, I would hope the 2001 Civic has variable-ratio steering--even the lowly Elantra has that!

    There! Not a word about money! Next time someone asks on one of these forums why people buy Elantras, I'll just tell them it's because the "H" logo on the trunk is much sexier than the boring "H" badge on Hondas. Or maybe it's those killer 15" wheels/tires, even if some people think they are worthless.
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    I agree, the 15" tires that come STANDARD on my Civic are indeed nice. My 2000 Elantra had 14"....
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    Actually the car is in immaculate condition, breaks are new & mileage is very low & here where we live good used cars are very difficult to get. There are virtualy no adds in paper for used cars with decent mileage. It is all demand & supply.
    Even 91 Accord EX with 142K mileage was sol;d for 4000 !! Isn't that absurd ? but that is the way it is.

    U r partially right: Honda had $500 on Civic & $750 on Accord 4 cyl but NOT REBATE. It was dealer incentive. Dealer may choose to share it with buyer or may not. Depends on the market condition. Helps to keep prices in that perticular area under check. Atleast I have not seen any REBATE from Honda in recent years.
    They do have APRs & Dealer Incentive at tjhe end of model year(on 5 cyl accord not v6)

    No, I am repeating the same thing, it is up to everybody to decide whether INITIAL investment is worth for Civic as major chunk of it will be back after resale. It is always smart to have a car in demand & good resale if u like to change cars every 3-4 years.

    Again, Hyndai is doing very good job of selling cars & their competetive prices will help consumers only as Honda/Toyota & others will be forced to check on their prices. The same thing happened with Acura/Lexus/Infinity joining Lexu-game. Jermans had to check their prices.

    I hope Hyndai gets even more better so that competetion will helps us. I see a lot of Jetta effect to Civic's redesign especialy interior materials which are now much better than 2000 Civic which inturn also the best in class in 96.

    I am not trying to fear buyers away from Hyndai, just some thought to consider before putting hard-earned money.
  • elantra00elantra00 Posts: 225
    HYUNDAI is spelled H Y U N D A I. not hyndai or huyundai...I am really starting to get sick of people miss spelling it, especially Honda owners.

    Now, for the real stuff. Looking at the new civic, I say it beats the Elantra in only one category: Resale. Use to be interior layout too, but the 2001 Elantra wins hands down. Sobers, that is amazing of absurd of someone buying an 11 year old car for $4000. What was that guy thinking. for 1500-2500. Fine, thats not bad considering its a Honda. But not 4000!? What was that guy on? ^___^

    The civic is not upscale, and defenietly not well equipped. The accord is upscale. Before you say anything, the elantra is not upscale either...these are econoboxes. Honda does have good reputation and reliability. But not well equipped. Remember our discussion get an equally equipped Civic to elantra, you would have to pay 17,000...thousands more then the elantra.

    So...reputation of reliability and high wins. But everything else for value, engine power, equipped..Hyundai wins easily. And at the rate Hyundai is going, they will soon be equal with honda in reliability and resale.
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    U said Civic wins only in one category.
    How about: Better mpg, Better Build Quality, Better Interior Materials, Much better Crash Test results(imp for family).

    You have agreed upon resale, reliability.
    Hyundai(!) will need atleast 10-15 years of very well performance to come anywhere near Honda/ Toyota. Ford/GM are not able to match their quality since 2-3 decades. To match the resale of Hondas any automaker will need to watch supply-n-ddemand very carefully. One reason for Honda's highg resal is lesser give-away sales ar rebates-fleet etc. Not a single Accord is been used as Taxi(even Benz is used in UK as a cab) anywhere in the world. which creates immense brand-equity. EVen BEnz had to admit that only Honda comes close to them when brand-loyaltee & Equity is considered. However I am not baised against Elantra. It is up to individual to decide whether to put addional money on his/her car.

    Regarding 89 Civic. I guess it is just the demand & supply. Winter here is really bitter & the guy needed immediate transport I guess. Mileage is also very less but 4000 is too much to pay. I guess, I need to ask my frined whether the car had any modifications/special wheels etc.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Civic beats Elantra on mpg, that's a fact. Civic has higher resale than Elantra, that's a fact. But what facts substantiate "better build quality" and "better interior materials"? I own a '01 Elantra and have examined the '01 Civic closely (I have owned two Civics also). To me, there is little difference in build quality. On my Elantra, all seams are tight and even. Doors close with a solid thunk. No rattles and squeaks. Interior finishing and material quality is excellent--smooth switchgear, nicely padded armrests and panels, rich velour, etc. Paint is excellent, not a hint of orange peel that is all too common on Japanese cars. Even the engine compartment looks sharp. I recall that when Honda introduced the '96 Civic, they took some heat for reducing the thread count in the rear seat fabric to save money. Maybe they've corrected that in the '01 model.

    Also, please stop comparing the crash-test results for the redesigned '01 Civic with the '00 Elantra. The Elantra was redesigned for '01, includes front side airbags as standard, and will probably have different crash test ratings than the '00 model. The crash test ratings for the '01 Elantra are due later this month and in March for the various tests. When they are published, then we can discuss the relative crash-worthiness of the '01 Civic vs. the '01 Elantra. Otherwise it's apples to oranges.

    Also, regarding safety: if Honda is so concerned about safety that they redesigned the Civic to get excellent crash scores, why don't they make ABS, an important safety feature, available on every Civic, not just the most expensive model? Why don't they make side air bags standard? (Note that the Civic's crash scores were with the optional side air bags.)

    One more thing... how do you know for a fact that there is not a single Accord being used as a taxi anywhere in the world? Have you (or anyone else) surveyed the world's taxi drivers? This statement is typical of the hyperbole and inaccuracies to which you subject the patrons of this forum on a regular basis, and I for one am getting tired of it.
  • elantra00elantra00 Posts: 225
    you are right. it does get better gas mileage. But i wouldnt go as far as better interior materials. maybe last generation elantra but not the new ones. the new ones win hands down. and i think suspension wise too. the civic has a crappier suspension and the new elantra has a better suspension, so ride quality may be better in the elantra.
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    Who here that thinks the Civic suspension is now inferior to the Elantra suspension has actually done the research and DRIVEN both cars? Not many.....The new and IMPROVED Civic suspension is just fine. It would not behoove Honda to get rid of their famed suspension if the new one was not better and did not have it's advantages over the old one. The new suspension is better in everyway except one. The new suspension make the car ride "stiffer"...some would say that is GOOD. It does allow the car to have much less lean in turns and makes the car FAR MORE nimble and tight than before. Not to mention the room and safety it allows for. I can't speak for the 01 Elantra's, since I have no experience with them, but I know that it is in no way superior to the Civic. These are two fine cars. One is more refined and has a better reputation and offers more choices. One is cheaper and has a 13 HP advantage, though with much lower MPG's.

    Take your pick - neither of them will steer you wrong.
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    That is not what I am saying. It can be found in the Honda literature. Rather previous generation Hondas were compact class just by 2-3 Cubic ft which was the main reason it was never sold to rental agencies & also in UK it is still compact so no question of being used as a cab.

    Also it is asknoledged by Honda in its publication that Accord is NEVER used as a cab.
    U can sue Honda for that if u observed otherwise.
    Very low Rental sales in USA is a different thing.
    That means u almost have to own Honda to drive one. This creates immense brand equity.

    SMall scale rental sales do help as they advertise cars to consumers who eventually want to get one for them after renting one.

    About interior materials, Honda had Jetta in mind while redesigning Civic this time. Also, they will have Passat in mind while launching next Accord. So the inetrior mateials have been much better than before which in tyrn were benchmark for the category. Build Quality of the new civic is been acknoleged as the best in segment. Just have a look at the gap between the front bumper & body. It is ZERO with 2001 Civic. was 2-3mm for 2000 !! ALL the panel gaps are UNIFORM which can't be said about any Hyndai car. Honda/Toyota's build quality is on par with luxo automobiles like BMW & Benz let alone others like Big Threes & Koreans.

    Given the conditions it is tru that u require more INITIALLY to get a HOnda u the amount is paid off when u r done with the car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    I really don't see what the use of Hondas as rental units and taxis has to do with the quality of the car, but I do know it is not true that previous-generation Hondas were never sold to rental agencies. I rented Civics from Hertz in the early 90s. The reason rental car agencies don't buy Hondas may be because they are too expensive. Why buy a Civic for $15-17K when they can by an Escort or Elantra for $12K?

    I'd love to see the Honda document that says there are no Accord taxis in the world, because I'd like to know how they know that some cabbie somewhere has not purchased a used Accord and put it into service as a taxi.
    Actually, to me the fact that a car is used as a taxi is a testament to the toughness and reliability of the car, since taxis take a pounding and rack up lots of miles. Since Accords are reliable, I'd wager the main reason they would not be popular as taxis is their high resale value--a cabbie can buy a larger car like a Crown Vic or a Caravan for a lower price.

    I do know of at least one Hyundai with uniform panel gaps--mine. This is not surprising to me because Hyundai uses the latest robot technology, their own robots actually, to assemble the panels. BTW, these happen to be the same robots that assemble Mercedes Benzes, and their panel gaps are pretty good, right?
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    The outside of my 2000 Elantra was FLAWLESS body panel wise. The paint was a little thin on the bumpers (but I LOVED the color - Slate Gray). The inside was a different story. On the bottom of the car, when your feet scrape as you get in the car, those plastic pieces might as well have been taped on...looked so sloppy. Did not really fit....but for $10k, how could I complain? The new Civic does not have those panel fitting problems..but each car is different. Could depend on the shift it was manufactured, what the temperature was when the parts were assembled, etc. I am sure the new Elantra have addressed those interior issues if they are expecting to get $13k for the cars..
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    There is not doubt that for 13K I can't ask for better quality which is found in Civic. That is it
    IMO In current form Civic EX is not a good value but this assured resale gaurantees its sale. Civic LX makes more sense to me.

    Regarding Accords nor being used as cab: It is the dircet sale & Honda OFCOURSE can't control used accord sale for cab. BUT it doesn't make sense ofr a cabdriver to get a pricey used Accord instead of bigger car in uSA & deisel car in UK.
    CAbs in UK are mostly run on Deisel.
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