The fact remains that side impact air bags should not have gone off during a frontal impact (offset or not). The fact that they went off is a problem in itself.
I don't see why it's a problem that the side air bags went off in the offset crash test. I just re-read the IIHS report, and in three tests of the Elantra the side airbags went off twice, protecting the head from hitting the B-pillar. In the one test that the side air bags didn't go off, the report says that the head struck the B-pillar, which could indicate head injury. So the fact that the side airbags went off seems to help the Elantra, not hurt it.
The main problem, of course, is that the driver's steering wheel air bag didn't inflate fast enough. That seems to me to be a relatively easy thing to fix, as opposed to redesigning the whole cabin or something. The video of the test showed that the cabin area held up pretty well. If Hyundai can fix the air bag sensor, I think they could get a much better result from this test.
Has anyone noticed that the transmission seems to up shift incorrectly between 2nd and 3rd gear at around 3000 rpms? The engine will rev up to 4000 rpms and then shift into the next gear. This doesn't happen all the time. The dealer, as is to be expected, said that they couldn't find anything wrong. The car has 650 miles on it and now I wonder if I bought the wrong car.
That's not much of an answer. Among the problems experienced by the Elantra in the IIHS test, the side airbags deploying was a good thing, not a "problem." The only downside would be cost of repair, but I'd rather not have my head hit the B-pillar, thank you.
I have been having trouble with this issue as well. Why did the side airbags deploy in the first and second tests, but not the third?
If they were supposed to go off then the failure rate is 1/3. In the test where they failed to deploy the dummy's head ended up hitting the B-pillar. I find it hard to believe that because this is frontal impact, the side airbags are not supposed to deploy.
And anyways, if they are not supposed to deploy, does that the fact that they did 2 out of 3 times mean that their sensors are defective as well?
All cars face this problem. There is always a chance in even the highest-end cars that the airbag may not deploy. However, the chance of it going off are in our favor. I mean, just do this: When you start the car, look at the gauges in front of you. There is an airbag light that blinks. So it runs a test when the car starts to make sure the airbags are ready. When the test is done, it goes out, meaning that the saftey system is functioning properly and god forbid an accident should occur, the airbag should come out when its suppose to. Now, my jeep cherokee doesn't have that light. That airbag has been tucked in the steering wheel for 6 years now and 107,000 miles. Who knows if it will deploy on impact because there is no way of knowing if that system is working right.
I have had the same or similar problem with my Elantra since it was new. Brought it back to the dealer and they could find nothing wrong with it. Seems to be more prevalent when the car is warming up for first couple of miles. Also seems to be worse at low acceleration. I now have 4200mi on my car and it still does it. Can't wait to see how bad it is going to be when winter comes and the temps get below 60F. Have also noticed that at about 40mph when the xmisssion is in overdrive, if you back off on the gas the car seems to bog down. When I have done this with any other vehicle this has not happened but I get more of a coasting feeling. The transmission seems to shift perfectly when under hard acceleration. Maybe you're only supposed to drive the Elantra as if you were on a racetrack. ;-)
drove one - very unimpressed - kinda on par with the Civic Ex - except with a very spotty reliability record (personal experience plus stats) and POOR crash tests
And PLEASE don't tell me the 10/100 bull that the dealer will spit out. First, it's a marketing ploy to try and boost sales - second, have you ever found the service experience to be pleasant when you had to fix your car? $40-75 JUST to LOOK at the damn thing, and then, unless it's MAJOR, they'll always try to find something you didn't do as part of maintenance - something like transmission fails at 40,000 miles and you didn't change the transmission fluid at 30,000 !!! No way, I'll stick with a reliable car thank you.
I have never in 25 years of driving had ANY dealer charge ANYTHING for warranty work. This includes my Hyundai dealer, who has never asked for one cent to "look at the [expletive] thing". With my Elantra's 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty and 10-year powertrain warranty, I am assured of not paying anything for any problem for five years, and not paying anything for powertrain problems for 10 years. My only responsibility is to follow the Hyundai service schedule, which I would do anyway, 10-year warranty or no 10-year warranty, because proper maintenance is the best insurance for trouble-free driving. IMHO, Hyundai, or any automaker, is within its rights to deny a warranty claim if a car has been mistreated in a way that could cause a problem, e.g., not maintaining the transmission properly and then having transmission trouble. I like reliable cars too, but what I like best is knowing that if there is a problem, which there can be with any car, I'm covered. Sure, the 10/100 warranty is a marketing ploy. Who cares why Hyundai does it? The fact is they've got it and it's a competitive weapon against makes like Honda, Toyota, and Nissan that have better long-term reliability records.
Just curious... how could you not be at least a little impressed by a car that you believe tests out on a par with Civic EX but costs thousands less and has tons more standard equipment? Also, how can you say the reliability record of the Elantra GT is "spotty" when the car has been selling for only a couple of months, and its brother the GLS only since last fall in its present form? From comparing owner experiences of the GLS and GT to that of the 2001 Civic on Edmund's forums, it appears to me that they all have their share of first-year glitches.
You can just sense it out there.....still a great, highly rated car but it just leaves you thinking that something is missing, like standard equipment and price. You are right about the Civic boards.....they can't even make a radio that works!
an airbag that works than a radio. At least Honda made a recall. Why get so defensive about the Elantra? They took a major step with the 2001's...nobody is denying you that.
I really like the GT, but the safety ratings are certainly a concern. Basically - I'm buying on price, safety and reliability. The price is right...the reliability was a question...and I thought the safety (according to NHTSA) was comparable. Now I'm not so sure.
I was only tempted by the GT because of the great looks which wasn't one of my primary criteria. I just got annoyed with all the Civics I saw on the road.
Its fair to say that Hyundai should step up to the plate, validate these results, and issue a recall if necessary. That would restore my faith in their determination to sell car car that is safe and reliable....in which case I might be swayed to buy it in September as it would satisfy my three decision points.
Anyone who thinks a recall on the airbags or their sensors - even if barely necessary - is silly and bad for resale is kidding themselves. Those test ratings are bad for resale.
Right now - I'm back to buying a Civic. I hope there is more to this story by September...because I would love to have the better looking, less expensive, more amenities car be safe.
They tested the Elantra GLS sedan. We don't know when it was produced, how widespread the problem is, and whether the later production GT hatchbacks suffer from the same problem. Not trying to be defensive....I was one of those Hyundai doubters until I bought this car. 4,000 miles into it, I really think it is put together well. Hondas are great...they just didn't knock me over like the GT did....maybe they will at resale?!
Elantra GLS made edmunds.com's list of the top five most-improved cars. Also the long-term testers at edmunds.com continue to give it raves; in the August report, even a cynical editor was won over. They must have bought a real creampuff; no problems at all to nearly 6000 miles. They seem to be flogging it, though--getting 20-29 mpg per tank, a bit on the low side.
Saw an interesting note on another board--the 2002 Kia Spectra (replacement for both the Sephia and Spectra) is based on the Elantra platform, according to the post. I saw a '02 Spectra sedan the other day and it was very sharp, even classier looking than the Elantra I think. This could make it very interesting next year if Hyundai/Kia has two solid compacts to go up against Civic and the rest.
A friend of mine has a 2001 Civic LX coupe. He backed into a bench that was in his driveway. Now talk about damage...The one corner of the bumper was smashed in and the side had a big dent in it with gashes all along it. All from a bench? Id think scratches at the most. Honda quality is going down. First they downgrade the suspension from a double wishbone. Now the exterior quality isn't as good as it once was. This is not a good sign of things to come for Honda. All I know is that a fully loaded Civic EX goes for around 20 grand which is COMPLETELY insane. I got my Elantra for 10,900. Same features yet the Elantra has more for almost half the price.
two things, you fail to mention how fast your friend was moving down the driveway. also was the bench fixed into the ground or not? both of these things would weigh heavily on how much damage was done. I will admit though, as an owner of a 98 civic, I have noticed that the quality is a bit lacking. Honda should forget they even made a 01 civic and just move on ot the 02 model year with much needed improvements.It should go from Gen 6 straight to the second year of Gen 7. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 dollars.
I'm not choosing sides here... but lets get the record straight....
A new elantra with ABS (pkg 5 I believe) will set you back $15,000.... and you can't get a sunroof with the abs.
You can get a new civic EX Sedan with side airbags (includes abs and sunroof) now for under $17,000.
Now.... If you don't car about abs, dealers are letting LX Sedans go for $15,000.
So, even in EX vs. GLS configurations, the difference is $2000 - $3,000 in favor of the Hyundai. BUT.... and here's the big BUT....
Number one: Honda is offering 3.9% financeing for 3 years (and 5.9% for 5 years) which will save a bundle in interest over the average loan rate in the country now (8.9% I've read). AND in 3-5 years, trade-in prices on civic will be exceptional compared to the hyundai. So, when you factor in the better resale and lower interest and the fact that honda dealers are selling at close to invoice, the civic $ is the same or in some cases (at trade-in time) LESS EXPENSIVE than the elantra. I like the elantra very much, but I really don't keep my cars longer than 2-3 years so I need something reliable, affordable and with good resale. That's why I'm leaning civic over elantra. Also, coming out of a VW, let me tell you... You could have a 50 year/500,000 b2b warranty but there is NOTHING worse than dealer service departments. While no car is perfect, my experiences with honda civics and accords in the past has been good.... rarely if EVER did I have to take my car to ANY shop other than routine oil changes. While hyundai (elantra in particular) build quality has improved dramatically, they still have to prove themselves..... raw data over the next couple of years.... before I take the plunge.
Keep in mind that Hyundai dealers are selling GLSes for near or under invoice also, and Hyundai has a $500 rebate, so the price difference remains. In some parts of the country, including MN, a new GLS can be had for under $11,000. The low-rate financing on the Civics can reduce the price advantage--IF you qualify for it (the small print usually reads "not all buyers will qualify for these low rates"). If you're looking for a low rate, you should check out the '01 Proteges with 0.0% financing for 4 years, plus free moonroof and alloys; also GM has just announced 0.0% for 5 years on their cars, including the Prizm and Saturns. I do agree that if you plan to keep a car for only 2-3 years and like driving the Civic as much as the Elantra, the Civic makes more sense because of its traditionally high resale value--assuming you can get a decent deal on the Civic.
An automatic package 5 Elantra GLS should be able to be bought for $13K before any rebates. That is what I was offered before I bought my GT. Might even be less now with the 02s coming. Trick is to find a package 5 in the color you want.
What were the three top reasons for purchasing your current car? I'm assuming if your a regular in the Small Sedan Comparo Discussion you own a small sedan of some type. I'm interested in, what sold you on your current car!
I'll go 1st. These were the qualities, I looked for when shopping.
1.) Roomy Interior- 2.) Value Pricing- 3.) Attractive Styling-
Does anyone know why Honda America doesn't want Alldata to publish their TSBs for DIYers? Are they trying to hide defects in Hondas? What do you guys think?
If Honda has issued a TSB about a known issue, they likely (1) consider it a serious enough matter to want a trained tech to take a look at it, and (2) want to have an idea how widespread the problem is.
I don't see how they are "hiding" any defects by encouraging use of their Honda-trained techs.
And why should Alldata make a profit (it's $24.95 per year for the first vehicle, $14.95 for additional vehicles) off information Honda has paid to investigate, develop, and distribute? Sounds like they are looking for a free ride and encouraging folks like you to complain to Honda when they don't get it.
By the way, BMW doesn't want Alldata publishing their stuff either. I'd say that's pretty good company to be in.
1. Ability to get ABS and traction control in a 4 cylinder. 2. Driver comfort relating to a good adjustable seat with lumbar and height adjustments, good leg room, and a fully functional, proper height center arm rest/console. 3. Hatchback versatility.
available for it.Also a wide array of humongus exhaust tips and really large wings.The drivers seatback on the Civic also leans back much more.Add some 20"wheels and the choice is clear.
I paid 16,300 for my EX civic back in august. Has everything, including a rear spolier. Honda's are better than Hundai's for many reasons, but here's one:
Never considered that whole "key in the ignition switch chime" thing. Silly me. I was concerned with price, features, and warranty. But, now I'm sold on Civic!
LOL! thanks civic owner, u reminded me of my ding dong that i get every time i put in the key because i put the key in the ignition and leave my door open all the time, i'm gonna go buy a honda now so i don't get that ding dong, because thats why hondas are so great, no DING DONG!
hondaowner civic and elantras have all their goods and bads, why don't u give all of us a better reason why honda is better for u than the ding dong
I went looking at 2002 Civic coupes today. Good looking car--better than Elantra IMO (but not the Civic Sedan). I know it will be a quality vehicle that will run for years. I just don't know if I can get over the huge price difference. I know the Civic will have better resale, but the extra up front is killing me! I don't know what I'm going to do.
Why not try a lease? With the Civic's high resale value, there should be leases available with high residuals (meaning low payments). The right lease can keep your upfront costs down and the payments lower. I leased a couple of Sentras just for that reason. But I paid cash for my Elantra because there were no attractive leases (lower residual values), and because I could afford to pay cash with the lower price.
I have no interest in leasing. I plan on having this car for at least 5-7 years--hopefully more! My current Sephia is over 6 years old, so I would hope my next car--be it Sentra, Elantra or Civic--could go at least that long. Leasing may be okay for someone who has to have a new car every 2-3 years, but that's not me.
In the interests of not cluttering up the Honda Civic Sedans forum with an ever-growing thread on Civic vs. Elantra, I've taken the liberty of continuing the thread here. This is a response to #1399 from bordsource on the Honda Civic Sedans thread:
Thanks for clarifying your statements. I still disagree with you on the fuel economy point. Yes, the Accord has comparable mpg to the Elantra (26/32 Accord vs. 25/33 Elantra) while the Accord has 10 more horses and weighs more. That's impressive. But all the other cars you mention that have more power than the Elantra also have lower mpgs, while all the small cars you listed that have higher mpgs than the Elantra have less power, in almost every case at least 10% less. Take 10% off the mpg ratings for the other cars and the Elantra's mpg is pretty close. So considering the power output of the Elantra compared to cars of comparable power, it's not doing too bad--not as bad as you made it out to do in your initial post anyway.
Re the natural-gas Civic, I was comparing gasoline cars. If we want to get into the esoteric stuff, we could talk about hybrids, electric cars, fuel-cell cars etc. and the discussion of mpg would get really convoluted.
Re the Sentra SE, that doesn't exist anymore, but when it did (last year) it had 145 hp, more than the Elantra. So it should be faster. The Sentra SE-R has 165 horses so it had better be a lot faster than the Elantra. Still, 0-60 in 8 secs. is not bad for a $13,000 econobox.
Re crash tests, I respect your opinion on the importance of the IIHS offset crash test. I wish the Elantra had performed better in that test also--shoot, I drive one. I just didn't like the generalization that the Elantra performed poorly in all crash tests.
First, let me say that I am quite impressed at how you respectfully submitted your replies. It's unusual around here, actually.
BTW- I forgot that they added that stupid muffler to the SE to boost power to 145. The Civic GX was to prove a point w/emissions- ULEV & SULEV vs. LEV & SULEV. The whole problem with that argument, though, was the fact that the GX is natural-gas. Cleanest internal combustion engine, yes; cleanest gasoline engine, no. Just a point of interest that was really a weak factor in my greater point of Civic emissions.
The disappearance of the SE model pretty much says that that engine is dead, eh? With the G20 heading out next spring, that's the end of the road for that thing. The end of an era has come. Oh well, whatever.
Anyway, kudos, Backy, for your admirable poise and competence throughout this thread! Good people do still exist.
hey guys, remember 2001civicowner?The guy who last week said you should not buy a Hyundai because of the "key in the ignition" chime? I saw on the Civic thread this morning that his 3 month old Civic died on him 3 times last week--and has been back to the dealer twice, once last friday and one last saturday (2 days ago). I assume he will stop buy this thread and remind us all about how great these "bullet proof" Hondas are, right?
Hello everyone. Yeah the success of Hyundai,especially the elantra, is making Hondo owners and dealers a little defensive and nervous. My Brother-in-Law, Andres, was very anti-Hyundai. He bought his new Civic just a few months before I purchased my Elantra GLS. Once I got it he asked me to come by and let him have a look. Well,he looked at it pretty hard, inside and out, trunk and engine, asked about the price and warranty then slammed the door. "Pretty good" he said "can I drive it?" "Sure!" I tossed him the keys. His verdict? He thinks I got the better deal, and he has revised his opinion of Hyundai.:)
is another suggestion that Hyundai consider putting a V-6 into the Elantra and go after the really fast stuff. If the engine would make the E to front end heavy wouldn't the same comment apply to the new Tiburon if it is in fact on the same platform.
Isn't 140 HP enough for a compact sedan? How quickly do you want to get to work, anyway? I could see a little more power for the GT, though, simply because it's called a "GT".
Comments
The main problem, of course, is that the driver's steering wheel air bag didn't inflate fast enough. That seems to me to be a relatively easy thing to fix, as opposed to redesigning the whole cabin or something. The video of the test showed that the cabin area held up pretty well. If Hyundai can fix the air bag sensor, I think they could get a much better result from this test.
If they were supposed to go off then the failure rate is 1/3. In the test where they failed to deploy the dummy's head ended up hitting the B-pillar. I find it hard to believe that because this is frontal impact, the side airbags are not supposed to deploy.
And anyways, if they are not supposed to deploy, does that the fact that they did 2 out of 3 times mean that their sensors are defective as well?
And if something deploys when it is not supposed to, that is a problem even if it has a beneficial consequences.
Personally, I think all the air bags should be set to go off in the event of any crash above a certain speed.
Seems to be more prevalent when the car is warming up for first couple of miles. Also seems to be worse at low acceleration.
I now have 4200mi on my car and it still does it.
Can't wait to see how bad it is going to be when winter comes and the temps get below 60F.
Have also noticed that at about 40mph when the xmisssion is in overdrive, if you back off on the gas the car seems to bog down. When I have done this with any other vehicle this has not happened but I get more of a coasting feeling.
The transmission seems to shift perfectly when under hard acceleration. Maybe you're only supposed to drive the Elantra as if you were on a racetrack. ;-)
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_small.htm
And PLEASE don't tell me the 10/100 bull that the dealer will spit out. First, it's a marketing ploy to try and boost sales - second, have you ever found the service experience to be pleasant when you had to fix your car? $40-75 JUST to LOOK at the damn thing, and then, unless it's MAJOR, they'll always try to find something you didn't do as part of maintenance - something like transmission fails at 40,000 miles and you didn't change the transmission fluid at 30,000 !!! No way, I'll stick with a reliable car thank you.
Just curious... how could you not be at least a little impressed by a car that you believe tests out on a par with Civic EX but costs thousands less and has tons more standard equipment? Also, how can you say the reliability record of the Elantra GT is "spotty" when the car has been selling for only a couple of months, and its brother the GLS only since last fall in its present form? From comparing owner experiences of the GLS and GT to that of the 2001 Civic on Edmund's forums, it appears to me that they all have their share of first-year glitches.
I really like the GT, but the safety ratings are certainly a concern. Basically - I'm buying on price, safety and reliability. The price is right...the reliability was a question...and I thought the safety (according to NHTSA) was comparable. Now I'm not so sure.
I was only tempted by the GT because of the great looks which wasn't one of my primary criteria. I just got annoyed with all the Civics I saw on the road.
Its fair to say that Hyundai should step up to the plate, validate these results, and issue a recall if necessary. That would restore my faith in their determination to sell car car that is safe and reliable....in which case I might be swayed to buy it in September as it would satisfy my three decision points.
Anyone who thinks a recall on the airbags or their sensors - even if barely necessary - is silly and bad for resale is kidding themselves. Those test ratings are bad for resale.
Right now - I'm back to buying a Civic. I hope there is more to this story by September...because I would love to have the better looking, less expensive, more amenities car be safe.
Saw an interesting note on another board--the 2002 Kia Spectra (replacement for both the Sephia and Spectra) is based on the Elantra platform, according to the post. I saw a '02 Spectra sedan the other day and it was very sharp, even classier looking than the Elantra I think. This could make it very interesting next year if Hyundai/Kia has two solid compacts to go up against Civic and the rest.
Kyle
A new elantra with ABS (pkg 5 I believe) will set you back $15,000.... and you can't get a sunroof with the abs.
You can get a new civic EX Sedan with side airbags (includes abs and sunroof) now for under $17,000.
Now.... If you don't car about abs, dealers are letting LX Sedans go for $15,000.
So, even in EX vs. GLS configurations, the difference is $2000 - $3,000 in favor of the Hyundai. BUT.... and here's the big BUT....
Number one: Honda is offering 3.9% financeing for 3 years (and 5.9% for 5 years) which will save a bundle in interest over the average loan rate in the country now (8.9% I've read). AND in 3-5 years, trade-in prices on civic will be exceptional compared to the hyundai. So, when you factor in the better resale and lower interest and the fact that honda dealers are selling at close to invoice, the civic $ is the same or in some cases (at trade-in time) LESS EXPENSIVE than the elantra. I like the elantra very much, but I really don't keep my cars longer than 2-3 years so I need something reliable, affordable and with good resale. That's why I'm leaning civic over elantra. Also, coming out of a VW, let me tell you... You could have a 50 year/500,000 b2b warranty but there is NOTHING worse than dealer service departments. While no car is perfect, my experiences with honda civics and accords in the past has been good.... rarely if EVER did I have to take my car to ANY shop other than routine oil changes. While hyundai (elantra in particular) build quality has improved dramatically, they still have to prove themselves..... raw data over the next couple of years.... before I take the plunge.
I do agree that if you plan to keep a car for only 2-3 years and like driving the Civic as much as the Elantra, the Civic makes more sense because of its traditionally high resale value--assuming you can get a decent deal on the Civic.
I'll go 1st. These were the qualities, I looked for when shopping.
1.) Roomy Interior-
2.) Value Pricing-
3.) Attractive Styling-
Thank you in advance!
Repectfully,
Larry
2) looks -same as above
3) standard equipment
http://www.alldata.com/includes/tsb/honda_notice.html
I don't see how they are "hiding" any defects by encouraging use of their Honda-trained techs.
And why should Alldata make a profit (it's $24.95 per year for the first vehicle, $14.95 for additional vehicles) off information Honda has paid to investigate, develop, and distribute? Sounds like they are looking for a free ride and encouraging folks like you to complain to Honda when they don't get it.
By the way, BMW doesn't want Alldata publishing their stuff either. I'd say that's pretty good company to be in.
twist
BTW, you can get BMW TSBs from ALLDATA and they never requested ALLDATA to limit access to their TSBs.
2. Driver comfort relating to a good adjustable seat with lumbar and height adjustments, good leg room, and a fully functional, proper height center arm rest/console.
3. Hatchback versatility.
Result: Elantra GT
Honda's are better than Hundai's for many reasons, but here's one:
Honda: put the key in: ding, ding, silence
Hundai: put the key in: ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong
never ends. and that would make you a ding dong for buying it.
'nuff said
thanks civic owner, u reminded me of my ding dong that i get every time i put in the key because i put the key in the ignition and leave my door open all the time, i'm gonna go buy a honda now so i don't get that ding dong, because thats why hondas are so great, no DING DONG!
hondaowner civic and elantras have all their goods and bads, why don't u give all of us a better reason why honda is better for u than the ding dong
Thanks for clarifying your statements. I still disagree with you on the fuel economy point. Yes, the Accord has comparable mpg to the Elantra (26/32 Accord vs. 25/33 Elantra) while the Accord has 10 more horses and weighs more. That's impressive. But all the other cars you mention that have more power than the Elantra also have lower mpgs, while all the small cars you listed that have higher mpgs than the Elantra have less power, in almost every case at least 10% less. Take 10% off the mpg ratings for the other cars and the Elantra's mpg is pretty close. So considering the power output of the Elantra compared to cars of comparable power, it's not doing too bad--not as bad as you made it out to do in your initial post anyway.
Re the natural-gas Civic, I was comparing gasoline cars. If we want to get into the esoteric stuff, we could talk about hybrids, electric cars, fuel-cell cars etc. and the discussion of mpg would get really convoluted.
Re the Sentra SE, that doesn't exist anymore, but when it did (last year) it had 145 hp, more than the Elantra. So it should be faster. The Sentra SE-R has 165 horses so it had better be a lot faster than the Elantra. Still, 0-60 in 8 secs. is not bad for a $13,000 econobox.
Re crash tests, I respect your opinion on the importance of the IIHS offset crash test. I wish the Elantra had performed better in that test also--shoot, I drive one. I just didn't like the generalization that the Elantra performed poorly in all crash tests.
BTW- I forgot that they added that stupid muffler to the SE to boost power to 145. The Civic GX was to prove a point w/emissions- ULEV & SULEV vs. LEV & SULEV. The whole problem with that argument, though, was the fact that the GX is natural-gas. Cleanest internal combustion engine, yes; cleanest gasoline engine, no. Just a point of interest that was really a weak factor in my greater point of Civic emissions.
The disappearance of the SE model pretty much says that that engine is dead, eh? With the G20 heading out next spring, that's the end of the road for that thing. The end of an era has come. Oh well, whatever.
Anyway, kudos, Backy, for your admirable poise and competence throughout this thread! Good people do still exist.
Happy holidays!
Hyundai,especially the elantra, is
making Hondo owners and dealers a little defensive and nervous. My Brother-in-Law, Andres, was very anti-Hyundai. He bought his new Civic
just a few months before I purchased my Elantra GLS. Once I got it he asked me to come by and let him have a look. Well,he looked at it pretty hard, inside and out, trunk and engine, asked about the price and warranty then slammed the door. "Pretty good" he said "can I drive it?" "Sure!" I tossed him the keys.
His verdict? He thinks I got the better deal, and he has revised his opinion of Hyundai.:)