i agree with liufei 100%. Everything he said i agree with. with resale value, i bought my car for college, something new, peace of mind, cheap and fun; since i will be commuting there. when i get my first "real" job after 4 years, then i am going to buy another car, not trade in the elantra. for the first time ever, isellhondas said something that made sense about the resale value. it is low on the elantra. so, with the car still being covered under warranty after 4 years still good for another 6, why get rid of it? i ll will just use it as a daily driver (the way the engine was designed, it should have no problem going 150,000 miles + ) and get something i really want, if the numbers are right, a brand new BMW 323Ci or if that is out of reach, a honda accord coupe (i will not buy it from isellhondas ) that will be the fun car to take out on a nice day. whichever it is, its going to be 5 spd manual. my point is that this is why people buy hyundais, to keep till they are did. so, if this is the case, who gives a [non-permissible content removed] about resale value? not me. just my story of it.
isellhondas: You continue to insist that the Civic costs less than the Elantra "when the Total Costs of Ownership are considered!" But you offer no figures whatsoever in support of that claim. This after all is not a matter of opinion, such as whether you prefer the styling of one car over the other. When you say that one commodity, a car or any other, costs more to own than another, whether in the short or the long run, you are not stating an opinion but are referring to what you claim is a financial fact. Such a fact can only be based upon actual figures. In this instance, your claim, if it is factually based, can only be based on the following factors: 1. The purchase price of an Elantra and a comparably equipped Civic; 2. Typical finance charges on the difference, that is on the amount by which the purchase price of the Civic exceeds that of the Elantra; 3. Typical sales tax on that difference; 4. Typical annual ad valorum tax on that difference, adjusted for statutory depreciation; 5. Typical insurance premiums for each car; 6. Typical repair bills for each car over, say, 5 years and 10 years, of course taking account of Hyundai's much longer warranties; 7. Lost interest on the additional costs after the loan has been repaid, or where cash is paid - at, say, the average yield of a T-bill, which is currently around 4% net per year for someone in the 15% tax bracket (rich people are not agonizing over whether to buy a Civic or an Elantra, much less which might cost more over a long period of ownership). 8. Finally, all of the above can be reduced by an estimate, based upon experience to date, of the resale value of each of the cars after 5 years and 10 years - this will of course favor the Civic, as Honda has enjoyed a better reputation than Hyundai in the past, though that may well be changing.
I strongly suspect that this analysis will show that the Elantra is cheaper than the Civic after 5 years, much cheaper after 10. If it shows otherwise, then I will of course stand corrected. But it is unfair to just repeat over and over again, like a mantra, that the Civic costs less in the long run than the Elantra without revealing the actual figures demonstrating that such is the case. Please now support your claim or, in simple fairness, withdraw it.
I purchased a 5-speed Elantra about 2 weeks ago and, so far, I could not be happier. Initial quality has been perfect. I spent several weeks researching my decision. Final contenders were the Focus ZX3 and Honda Civic HX, but I test drove others as well (2 other Civic models, Mazda, Toyota, and Nissan).
IMO the Elantra is far and away the best buy in this class. Hyundai wasn't even on my radar screen at first, but when I saw a few positive references in the press I thought, geez, at that price it's worth taking a look.
This car has some real zip (--and my last car was the beloved, much heralded Nissan Sentra SE-R, so I have some experience with top performance in this class), it handles well, comes well-equipped, fantastic warranty... I'm not saying it's on the same level as the SE-R (not quite), but I find it tremendously satisfying to find this much car for so little money.
I have great respect for Honda and the Civic (--it's the car I thought I'd be buying this time), and I fully expect them to come up to speed (pun intended) with their new version in 2001. But in the meantime, I challenge anyone to test drive the Elantra against comparable Civic models (EX and Si excluded since they're a helluva lot more expensive than the $11,300 I paid for my Elantra) and not admit that the Hyundai absolutely blows the Civics away. It's not even close. Looks to me like Hyundai's making the right moves, becoming a real player at last.
I went through much the same comparison testing, as I expect most people do. I liked the Focus, but the few that were available here were very expensive and in undesirable colors (dark is not suitable to desert conditions). Then I read of recalls, various problems typical of new models, and kept looking. The Corolla was astonishingly poorly equipped in the base models - no cruise control, no tachometer, no folding rear seat, manual sideview mirrors which did not bend, etc. That pretty much narrowed things down to the Civic and the Elantra. As we already have an Accord (1990) which we like, I started by assuming I would prefer the Civic. I was therefore surprised when I found it underpowered and uncomfortable. I was even more surprised when I liked the Elantra much more. There is one problem with both cars, however - and others as expensive as the Infiniti G20. When you adjust the height of the driver's seat-bottom, the seat-back does not move with it. The result is that as you raise or lower the seat, the configuration of the seat-back, and in particular the placement of the lumbar support, changes. I thought this was worse in the Civic than in the Elantra, but I may have been wrong, as I am finding it impossible to find a comfortable position in the Elantra. The seat-back is too hard and the incurving top cuts painfully into my shoulder blades. This doesn't happen right away; it takes an hour or more, which is why I didn't discover it during the test-drive. The Civic hurt my back right away. I have tried every kind of cushion and cover without success. I am now going to take the car to a professional upholsterer and hope he does not completely destroy it. But it's either that or an untimely trade-in, which would be particularly depressing as I really like the way the Elantra drives, both around town and on the highways - at 75 mph, the speed limit here, the Civic (and even more the CR-V) seemed to run out of breath, while the Elantra still has plenty of strength left, and that's with the A/C always running. Moreover, the cheapest car I have found with a fully adjustable power seat, one in which the back moves up and down with the seat, is an Accord EX at $23,000 - exactly double what I paid for the Elantra. I sure hope the upholsterer can help.
Well, I can appreciate what you're saying. Few things are more destructive to one's enjoyment of the driving experience than an uncomfortable seat.
For me, the seat initial seat position was perfect. I really didn't have to adjust anything, except tilt the steering wheel a little higher. A couple of days after getting the car, I thought I'd just fool around w/ adjusting the seat height, lumbar, and angle. See how the controls work and maybe see if I can improve upon perfect, I guess.
However I quickly learned, as you found out, that the adjustments are all independent of each other and the controls don't inspire confidence that you'll be able to replicate a previous position. So I quickly stopped.
As you say, this is not a design flaw isolated to the Elantra, but it's still something one would hope might be addressed. I'm sorry to hear your adjustments have ended up putting you in such pain and spoiling your fun. I hope that continued noodling with the controls finally lead you to seat-position nirvana.
The upholsterer could do nothing to make the seat more comfortable for me. Indeed, everything he tried made matters worse. He said this was common with seat problems, and that many new cars - especially those with molded seats - have them, which was little consolation to me. I'll keep fooling with the adjustments for a while, and perhaps try some new cushions or covers, but if I can't find a fix soon, I'm afraid I won't be driving this Elantra - which I really like in every other respect - much longer. Anybody who has any suggestions about making the driver's seat more comfortable, please post them soon. Thanks.
The upholsterer could do nothing to make the seat more comfortable for me. Indeed, everything he tried made matters worse. He said this was common with seat problems, and that many new cars - especially those with molded seats - have them, which was little consolation to me. I'll keep fooling with the adjustments for a while, and perhaps try some new cushions or covers, but if I can't find a fix soon, I'm afraid I won't be driving this Elantra - which I really like in every other respect - much longer. Anybody who has any suggestions about making the driver's seat more comfortable, please post them soon. Thanks.
I am now considering the Elantra (due to the value) as well as the Nissan Altima and the Sonata. Tell me, does the engine in your elantra seem loud or cheap? The Altima and Sonata are one level higher but the Elantra with all the bells and whistles seems to be a bargain at about $13,000. I would save about $3800. Lets here some feedback....
By the way, I won't even consider the generic civic. A good car but overpriced, underpowered and boring.
It is loud at higher revs but also has decent power.
My friend test drove a BMW 330 (awesome car) a few days ago. I was surprised at how loud that engine was for a 40K vehicle. Maybe I should not complain.
I need peoples' help. I am in the process of buying a new or used car. I test drove the 2000 Elantra (manual trans.) and liked it much better than the automatic Sonata. The only draw back was the size difference. The Elantra was quite a bit smaller. I'm trying to decide between the Elantra and a 2 or 3 year old Dodge Intrepid or Stratus (if anyone knows anything about them). What kind of a price should I offer for the Elantra (sticker- $11,799, deal for $10,500)? What have others paid for theirs?
I need peoples' help. I am in the process of buying a new or used car. I test drove the 2000 Elantra (manual trans.) and liked it much better than the automatic Sonata. The only draw back was the size difference. The Elantra was quite a bit smaller. I'm trying to decide between the Elantra and a 2 or 3 year old Dodge Intrepid or Stratus (if anyone knows anything about them). What kind of a price should I offer for the Elantra (sticker- $11,799, deal for $10,500)? What have others paid for theirs?
dont buy an american car. you are asking for trouble. id go with the hyundai elantra or sonata. first of all, its brand new and has a 10 yr warranty. also, they are both 4 cyclinders vs the V6's in the stratus so better in gas mileage for the hyundais.
No, I definitely would not describe the engine on my 2000, 5-speed Elantra as "loud and cheap" or "thrashy." So far, I can attest to its performance up to about 75mph, which is as fast as I've gone so far. I continue to be very impressed with the engine and overall build quality of the car. It's absolutely solid.
Granted, I don't drive this car like I used to drive my Sentra SE-R. With that one, I once got three speeding tickets in a single day traveling from Detroit to Boston --including getting flagged over and lectured by Canadian officers for doing 120mph. I'm older and I don't like living on the edge of a license suspension all the time. Grubbs, I rather like the the other possibilities you mention (Sonata and Altima), but if you don't need the additional room and degree of refinement, I think you'll be very satisfied w/ an Elantra. You'll also have a few thousand extra dollars in your pocket to brighten your mood.
I am looking at the elanta, and had one in 96...Does anyone have a 1999 or newer with an automatic tranny???? Are they sluggish???? Any responses are welcomed...
I'm shopping for a 2000/2001 S-Type and trying to decide between the (2) engines. I've driven the 3.0L and it runs just fine. However I've heard there may be some problems. I find this hard to beleive since it is based on the Ford Duratec, which has been around for a few years.
Since in your profile you stated your looking for a new or used car under 10k, why don't you consider a Hyundai Accent? You can easily get one for under 10 k with air/cassete player and you can fit into those tigher spots with your dreaded NYC parking U still get the Hyundai of all warranties, and a good looking subcompact car I might add. Much better then cars in that class like the metro, swift, echo . Good luck
I appreciate your response but I seem to be able to get the Elantra WITH MANUAL TRANSMISSION for close to 10K, so why settle for the Accent, unless it's for convenience of Automatic?
I appreciate your response but I seem to be able to get the Elantra WITH MANUAL TRANSMISSION for close to 10K, so why settle for the Accent, unless it's for convenience of Automatic? Any thoughts or suggestions?
If you can purchase a 5-speed Elantra for close to 10k, I'd jump on it immediately. I was pleased to buy one a month ago in the Philly-NJ-Delaware area for $11,300 cash. Based on price shopping I did online and off, I felt (and still feel) I got a good deal. It's been an excellent car, solid beyond my expectations. I detect no noticeable strain or noisyness up to 80mph. This weekend I had a couple of tight passing situations on Jersey highways and the acceleration was terrific. Forget about doubling your bumper-to-bumper coverage. That sounds like your dealer trying to recover some lost profit margin. At 5 years bumper-to-bumper, you've already got an advantage over the rest of the population. As for Hyundai's Roadside Service guarantee, I don't have any personal experience, but based on the terms alone it stacks up well w/ the kind of guarantee that previously only luxury cars offered.
With the 2001 Elantra coming out later this year, you may have even more leverage to get the 2000 model, since dealer is anxious to get rid off their old inventory. Coupled with some loss-leader, maybe the 10k is not so out of reach for a 5speed Elantra. The Accent is a nice sub-compact car, but its too small and doesnt offer as much value as the elantra, IMHO.
I am purchasing a Honda Civic LX with automatic transmission, and i wanted to find out what is the lowest price that people might have gotten on the Civic LX.
you could keep it for 5-6 years and see the resale value levelling off and keep the extra money plus whatever investment/interest you can get from it. The safety net of 5 years bumper-to-bumper/roadside assistance should help add additional advantages.
you can keep the car till its dead, which will be at least 100,000 miles w/ the warranty, but the way i treat and maintain cars, i'll get 200,000. so resale value doesnt mean [non-permissible content removed]. and since it was so cheap to buy, keep it as a daily driver and purchase a Lexus IS300 or BMW 323ci in a couple of years (My plan after college)
9 am - First customer at the dealership.. they are undecided. Isell whispers "resale, resale" in their ear.
11 am - Closes the deal on another overpriced, underpowered Honda. The poor customer is crying immediately after signing the paperwork. "Mr. Isell, I can't afford $350 a month!" Just remember resale he says.
12 noon - gets on Edmunds board and cuts and pastes "resale" on every topic except Honda.
4 pm - Gets in his Hyundai and drives home..
Aaah, if only life could be so good, huh Isell? The beehive looked like it needed some more stirring :P
higher can the lease payment be?? When you how much cheaper the car is initially....it still has to be cheaper. Lease the thing for 3 years....well within warranty period....seems like a no brainer.
I'm looking at a elantra gls wagon....can't imagine I could go wrong with it....
The people who point out that there are more important things than resale value are of course correct, but there is another point which must be made in response to isellhondas return to his old trash-the-competition car dealers' game. That is, when all things are considered, an Elantra is cheaper to buy, cheaper to own, and cheaper in the long run. A month ago, I gave isellhondas an easy way to prove his oft-repeated claim that Civics are cheaper in the long run because of their higher resale value. He has failed to respond. He can still do so. To determine which car is cheaper to own, these are the considerations: 1. The purchase price of an Elantra and a comparably equipped Civic; 2. Typical sales tax on that difference; 3. Typical annual ad valorum tax on that difference, adjusted for statutory depreciation; 4. Typical insurance premiums for each car (of course it costs more to insure a more expensive car, as the carrier's exposure is that much higher); 5. Typical repair bills for each car over, say, 5 years and 10 years, of course taking account of Hyundai's much longer warranties; 6. Lost interest on the additional costs after the loan has been repaid, or where cash is paid - at, say, the average yield of a T-bill, which is currently around 4% net per year for someone in the 15% tax bracket (rich people are not agonizing over whether to buy a Civic or an Elantra, much less which might cost more over a long period of ownership). 7. Finally, all of the above can be reduced by an estimate, based upon experience to date, of the resale value of each of the cars after 5 years and 10 years - this will of course favor the Civic, as Honda has enjoyed a better reputation than Hyundai in the past, though that may well be changing. When you do this kind of comparative analysis, you quickly see that the cheaper price of an Elantra - $4000 cheaper here in Tucson than a comparably equipped Civic - saves money not only at the outset but all along the way: on taxes (sales taxes, annual ad valorum taxes and/or registration fees), financing fees (including interest), insurance premiums, and opportunity cost (the loss of income on the extra money). When you also add in the cost of repairing the Civic after its warranty has run out while the Elantra still has years of warranty protection, the conclusion is inescapable: the Elantra is a much cheaper car to own and maintain, over the long term as well as the short term, than the Civic. In other words, isellhondas is simply wrong as a matter of fact, not opinion. (If he still thinks a Civic is cheaper to own than an Elantra, let him give us figures. If he just keeps repeating his resale value mantra, then we know it has no more validity than most things car salesmen say. By the way, at 8 months and 6500 miles, my Elantra GLS 5-speed is still running flawlessly - one of the best cars I have ever owned.
you know what's Funny - How I Read Many of the post's For Sedan's - Like Nubira - Civic Vs Elantra , Corolla,Elantra,Civic - Its Also Funny how ISELLHONDA's Is in all Of them... I Just think IsellHonda's DealerShip Just went Down (Due To A Brand New Opening Of A Huyndai Dealership Next To Him) ----- Well you have to know something - Stop Complaining, Honda Was Good For A While(Still Good) But They Are Going Down ----- Did you see Some of the new Elantra's??? Sante Fe - Xg - All of these - I would Take them Instead of the Best honda... - So isellHonda's Why dont you get Rid of these Honda's - Because people Are realizing what the Good Car's Are Really Like!!!!!!!!
I was Planning TO Get A Elantra - My mom Brought up A Modified Civic -- (LOL) -- I was Cracking up here... 96 Hp?? 1.8l?? The Car SUCKS - IT ALSO Looks Ugly - I wouldnt Even want to Work With Honda's ... I Think The NEW ACCORD is a nice car.. But then again I can Get 2 Full Powered Elantra's For the Price Of one EMPTY Accord .... Like I said - Consumer And Road test Reports Rated Honda Civic #8 --- Huyndai Elantra #3 But They say It was A Tie For 2nd And 3rd - Maybe Honda thinks there to good - So they can make there cars bad now - ----- BUT TO TELL All you people OUT THERe - DO NOT BUY A HONDA CIVIC - Please TRUST ME - (If huyndai Is able To Give you A Warrenty For 10 Years -- THat means there CAR's Have to Last -- I asked so many people They say they love there Huyndai - (Bye Bye Honda -))
isellhondas now states: "At this point it's pretty hard to quanitify total costs of ownership over a five year period." Then how can he say, as he has been saying over and over, that in the long run, eg 5 years, the Civic is cheaper to own than the Elantra due to resale value? Obviously, his claim has no factual basis at all - as he now virtually admits. But the facts, that is the figures, are actually out there, and they show that the Elantra is much cheaper to own, long term as well as short term, than the Civic. As I have noted, a comparably equipped Civic in Tucson costs $4000 more than an Elantra. When you then add initial sales tax (7%, which comes to $280 extra for the Civic), finance charges, annual taxes based on price, higher insurance premiums for the Civic, loss of income (interest, stocks, whatever) on that extra money, and a much longer warranty for the Elantra, any proportional difference in resale value after, say, 5 or 10 years, fades into insignificance. As for the Hyundai warranty being limited, does isellhondas claim that the Honda warranty is unlimited? That's not what Honda - or any other automobile manufacturer - says. Of course the Hyundai warranty is limited, as are all car warranties, but the Hyundai warranty is much longer than the Honda warranty. Comparisons of the Civic and the Elantra are surely valid, and some people may prefer one or the other for reasons satisfactory to themselves, which is all that ultimately matters. I test-drove both, and I already owned a Honda Accord (now my wife's car), and I found the Elantra manifestly superior to the Civic in all aspects that mattered to me. Someone else might differ - many do, as shown by the Civic's sales figures. But no one can say, because it is not true, that the Civic is cheaper to acquire, maintain, or own. It is that kind of claim, directly contrary to fact, which makes car salesmen so untrusted, indeed the very symbol of untrustworthiness.
Once again , I'm not the person who started this topic.
What makes ownership costs hard to predict is the uncertain value for Hyundai.
Currently at trade in time, they DO NOT bring wholesale book. They get bid for much less than that even by Hyundai dealers.
They are a VERY hard sell!!
But, I admit that factor *could* change.
As for the "high quality" product?
I also agree that the latest offerings may represent a huge imporvement over the earlier offerings that I think all of us would agree were lackluster at best.
I am NOT bashing Hyundai...Just trying to express another opinion/viewpoint.
I could very easilly modify my opinion at some point down the road.
Right now is their financial debt and the bickering in the upper management (between the family founder). Their car is decent and although I noticed their fit & finish is not yet up to Toyota/Honda standard, they're pretty close. But if the company goes under/being bought, no matter how good the car is its gonna be a risky investment. I dont think anyone will question the great value these Hyundai's car has (george00 provides a good models to see the real value of a car). Regarding the resale, we will just have to see 3-4 years down the road. Right now I'm pretty confident I made the right purchase.
p.s: I owned a 99 Corolla and 00 Elantra. Service count for corolla=0 Service count for elantra=0
Lets do a comparison between the civic and elantra, and those who dont believe will see the the elantra is a far better deal
For the base elantra you get power steering and brakes, power windows, locks, mirrors, air conditioning, lumbar support in the seats, fantastic 100k warranty, and the ability to really haggle the price. Engine has 140 hp. i got mine with standard features plus rims, premium stereo and cruise control for $10,800
The civic standard features includes power steering and brakes and a am/fm radio. no air conditioning, or power packages. base model has 106 hp. starting price of a civic is about $13,000. I am sure isellhondas will correct me if i am wrong.
The point: I am not bashing the civic. Its a reliable car. I am just putting things into perspective. The elantra is a far better deal. People buy the civic for quality. Well, with a 100k mile warranty, i rather save 6 grand and use the warranty every now and then the elantra has a bigger engine, more features such as power windows, locks and mirrors, cruise control premium stereo, rims for thousands less then the bare bones civic. How can you go wrong? You question reliability. ive had mine for 4 months now, no problems yet and even if i did, its covered under warranty.
So what do you have to say about that Isellhondas? Ask anyone in here who owns an elantra, no one has had problems with theirs. Hyundai is back and kicking the civic in the [non-permissible content removed].
From Cars.com which got its info from Intellichoice (since I am not going to pay $5 for the intellichoice data from IC)
Depreciation 00 Elantra Sedan (not listed by model) 8,231
00 Civic EX (highest depreciation) 6,956 The DX was 4K and VP and LX were 5400, 5500 resp.
This was based on estimates fro 2000-2004. Here's the official Depreciation definition Based on the assumption that you keep your vehicle for 5 years, after which time you sell it in a private party transaction (not sold to a dealer). Also assumes that the vehicle is in good condition having been previously driven an average of 14,000 miles per year, and will be driven that same number of miles per year for the next five years.
Elantra...Glad you like your car. It's still a Hyundai.
Apples and oranges...If an item is sold cheaply there is a reason.
Want to revisit the warranty issue...?
Hyundai HAD to do something! They had a terrible reputation and went to the limited ten year warranty in a desperate attempt to restore some confidence in the car. VW did the same thing for the same reasons a couple of years ago.
The BEST warranty of all is the one you never have to use!!
And...you *pay* for that warranty. It's figured into the price of the car!
But...If you really feel that the Hyundai is such a better value, good for you! Sounds like you are happy and that's what matters.
No, Hyundai did not HAVE to offer increased warranties because of its reputation. Most American car manufacturers are suffering from poor reliability reputations without increasing their warranty coverage by one day. I once purchased a new Chevrolet Impala which sputtered to a stop in the middle of the road with 120 miles on the odometer - it couldn't be jump-started but had to be towed in to the dealer who, when it was learned I had no appointment, screamed at me to get my car out of his repair shop. Somewhat later, a glutton for punishment, I purchased a new Cadillac which, after running for a full 44 miles without a problem, stranded me on 42nd Street just west of 5th Avenue in the heart of NYC - it was a Sunday, and I had been up for two days doing overtime work, and now I had to wait 2 hours for the tow-truck. Still later, a Chevrolet Citation I owned died at 32,000 miles. But I don't want to pick on GM, as a Ford Escort I owned went up in flames, and a Mercury Marquis had the distinction of being towed 6 times in one year. You can check the forums for such cars as the Oldsmobile Alero to find one horror story after the other, and the Edmunds' testers had their Lincoln LS incapacitated in the repair shop for 6 weeks in a year. Have GM or Ford found they HAD to increase their warranties in view of this appalling record? Not a bit of it. Hyundai should be rewarded, not criticised, for its decision to stand behind its products. VW? Despite its many quality problems, VW offers the shortest warranty - only 2 years - in the entire industry, a fact which kept me out of their showrooms. As for the price of the Hyundai warranty being "figured into the price of the car!" (isellhondas' phrase, including the strange exclamation point), everything you get in a Hyundai or a Honda or a Rolls Royce, is included in the price of the car, which is known among economists as the "no free lunch" doctrine. What is relevant to this forum is that, for your money, Hyundai gives you a much better warranty than does Honda (or GM or Ford, for that matter). Anyway, the point I and other posters have been making, and which isellhondas refuses even to address with actual facts and figures, is that a Hyundai Elantra is thousands of dollars cheaper to own and maintain than a comparably equipped Honda Civic - at the outset, in 1 year, in 5 years, and in 10 years. If you prefer the Civic, and are willing to pay the additional thousands, fine. But don't let any car salesman persuade you that you'll be saving money, because you won't.
All right, Hyundai didn't HAVE to offer a longer warranty to restore confidence..they just did!
Marketing, pure and simple, and probably a smart move on their part. Some people think a long warranty is everything. Isn't it a 10 year powertrain warranty? Everyting else is 3/36?
I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong.
And I think VW has the same warranty except they only give a 2/24 on everything non powertrain.
Which is the stuff that usually breaks!
As for GM...Well, they make marketing decisions too. As long as sales and profits are acceptable they aren't about to take on the exposure of a longer warranty.
And I'm glad you agree with me about the price of the warranty being figured into the price of the car. Again, it's just marketing.
Right on the money Isell. It's still a Hyundai. That is still a bad word in your mind. But we don't care about this "stigma" of owning a Hyundai because we know who's getting the last laugh. And it ain't you.
I can't disagree with you on the resale point because it is true. I've found out firsthand when I traded in my '97 Tiburon on a '00 Tib. I was upside down almost 2K on my new car loan. But this was my own stupidity for trading in a car that was a little less than 3 yrs. old. There's no doubt that it will take a few years before majority of the American public will figure out what we already know. We're getting substantial quality for less price. The answer to this (for now) is to keep your car for at least the duration of your loan.
As for the basic Hyundai warranty it is as follows: 5 yr. 60,000 Bumper to Bumper 5 yr. Unlimited mileage roadside assistance - this includes accidents, lockouts, dead batteries, and running out of gas. 10 yr. 100,000 mi. Powertrain 3 yr. 36,000 Paint
Since we are indeed paying for the warranty, it's a testament to Hyundai that they can still offer such outstanding value.
Your big misconception here is that you think that if something is offered for less money, then it's automatically inferior. Why haven't you figured out that it costs less to produce a car in Korea than it does in the U.S. or Japan? Plus the fact that Hyundai builds their own ships to transport the vehicles and produces their own steel, and many electronic parts too.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why an equivalent vehicle can be produced for less money under these circumstances. I hope this clears up some of your haziness.
Comments
This is an Elantra vs. Civic forum isn't it?
I'm not the one who started the forum but will step in when it gets one sided.
Someone said that Hondas are "overpriced".
This simply isn't true when the Total Costs of Ownership are considered!
If you prefer Elantras over Civics, great!
Just don't buy one for the wrong reasons.
1. The purchase price of an Elantra and a comparably equipped Civic;
2. Typical finance charges on the difference, that is on the amount by which the purchase price of the Civic exceeds that of the Elantra;
3. Typical sales tax on that difference;
4. Typical annual ad valorum tax on that difference, adjusted for statutory depreciation;
5. Typical insurance premiums for each car;
6. Typical repair bills for each car over, say, 5 years and 10 years, of course taking account of Hyundai's much longer warranties;
7. Lost interest on the additional costs after the loan has been repaid, or where cash is paid - at, say, the average yield of a T-bill, which is currently around 4% net per year for someone in the 15% tax bracket (rich people are not agonizing over whether to buy a Civic or an Elantra, much less which might cost more over a long period of ownership).
8. Finally, all of the above can be reduced by an estimate, based upon experience to date, of the resale value of each of the cars after 5 years and 10 years - this will of course favor the Civic, as Honda has enjoyed a better reputation than Hyundai in the past, though that may well be changing.
I strongly suspect that this analysis will show that the Elantra is cheaper than the Civic after 5 years, much cheaper after 10. If it shows otherwise, then I will of course stand corrected. But it is unfair to just repeat over and over again, like a mantra, that the Civic costs less in the long run than the Elantra without revealing the actual figures demonstrating that such is the case. Please now support your claim or, in simple fairness, withdraw it.
IMO the Elantra is far and away the best buy in this class. Hyundai wasn't even on my radar screen at first, but when I saw a few positive references in the press I thought, geez, at that price it's worth taking a look.
This car has some real zip (--and my last car was the beloved, much heralded Nissan Sentra SE-R, so I have some experience with top performance in this class), it handles well, comes well-equipped, fantastic warranty... I'm not saying it's on the same level as the SE-R (not quite), but I find it tremendously satisfying to find this much car for so little money.
I have great respect for Honda and the Civic (--it's the car I thought I'd be buying this time), and I fully expect them to come up to speed (pun intended) with their new version in 2001. But in the meantime, I challenge anyone to test drive the Elantra against comparable Civic models (EX and Si excluded since they're a helluva lot more expensive than the $11,300 I paid for my Elantra) and not admit that the Hyundai absolutely blows the Civics away. It's not even close. Looks to me like Hyundai's making the right moves, becoming a real player at last.
For me, the seat initial seat position was perfect. I really didn't have to adjust anything, except tilt the steering wheel a little higher. A couple of days after getting the car, I thought I'd just fool around w/ adjusting the seat height, lumbar, and angle. See how the controls work and maybe see if I can improve upon perfect, I guess.
However I quickly learned, as you found out, that the adjustments are all independent of each other and the controls don't inspire confidence that you'll be able to replicate a previous position. So I quickly stopped.
As you say, this is not a design flaw isolated to the Elantra, but it's still something one would hope might be addressed. I'm sorry to hear your adjustments have ended up putting you in such pain and spoiling your fun. I hope that continued noodling with the controls finally lead you to seat-position nirvana.
By the way, I won't even consider the generic civic. A good car but overpriced, underpowered and boring.
My friend test drove a BMW 330 (awesome car) a few days ago. I was surprised at how loud that engine was for a 40K vehicle. Maybe I should not complain.
Granted, I don't drive this car like I used to drive my Sentra SE-R. With that one, I once got three speeding tickets in a single day traveling from Detroit to Boston --including getting flagged over and lectured by Canadian officers for doing 120mph. I'm older and I don't like living on the edge of a license suspension all the time. Grubbs, I rather like the the other possibilities you mention (Sonata and Altima), but if you don't need the additional room and degree of refinement, I think you'll be very satisfied w/ an Elantra. You'll also have a few thousand extra dollars in your pocket to brighten your mood.
How noisy is the car at 65-80 mph? Does the engine seem to "strain" at high speeds?
How reliable is the roadside assistance?
Is it worth purchasing the 5-year extension doubling the bumper-to-bumper coverage?
Since in your profile you stated your looking for a new or used car under 10k, why don't you consider a Hyundai Accent? You can easily get one for under 10 k with air/cassete player and you can fit into those tigher spots with your dreaded NYC parking U still get the Hyundai of all warranties, and a good looking subcompact car I might add. Much better then cars in that class like the metro, swift, echo . Good luck
The Accent is a nice sub-compact car, but its too small and doesnt offer as much value as the elantra, IMHO.
Boltguy
Not a slam, just a fact.
Low resale vales equal low residuals which mean high lease payments.
A day in the life of Isellhondas...
7 am - Wakes up chanting "resale, resale"
9 am - First customer at the dealership.. they are undecided. Isell whispers "resale, resale" in their ear.
11 am - Closes the deal on another overpriced, underpowered Honda. The poor customer is crying immediately after signing the paperwork. "Mr. Isell, I can't afford $350 a month!" Just remember resale he says.
12 noon - gets on Edmunds board and cuts and pastes "resale" on every topic except Honda.
4 pm - Gets in his Hyundai and drives home..
Aaah, if only life could be so good, huh Isell?
The beehive looked like it needed some more stirring :P
Boltguy
I'm looking at a elantra gls wagon....can't imagine I could go wrong with it....
Comments???
1. The purchase price of an Elantra and a
comparably equipped Civic;
2. Typical sales tax on that difference;
3. Typical annual ad valorum tax on that
difference, adjusted for statutory depreciation;
4. Typical insurance premiums for each car (of course it costs more to insure a more expensive car, as the carrier's exposure is that much higher);
5. Typical repair bills for each car over, say, 5
years and 10 years, of course taking account of
Hyundai's much longer warranties;
6. Lost interest on the additional costs after the
loan has been repaid, or where cash is paid - at,
say, the average yield of a T-bill, which is
currently around 4% net per year for someone in the 15% tax bracket (rich people are not agonizing
over whether to buy a Civic or an Elantra, much
less which might cost more over a long period of
ownership).
7. Finally, all of the above can be reduced by an
estimate, based upon experience to date, of the
resale value of each of the cars after 5 years and
10 years - this will of course favor the Civic, as
Honda has enjoyed a better reputation than Hyundai
in the past, though that may well be changing.
When you do this kind of comparative analysis, you quickly see that the cheaper price of an Elantra - $4000 cheaper here in Tucson than a comparably equipped Civic - saves money not only at the outset but all along the way: on taxes (sales taxes, annual ad valorum taxes and/or registration fees), financing fees (including interest), insurance premiums, and opportunity cost (the loss of income on the extra money). When you also add in the cost of repairing the Civic after its warranty has run out while the Elantra still has years of warranty protection, the conclusion is inescapable: the Elantra is a much cheaper car to own and maintain, over the long term as well as the short term, than the Civic. In other words, isellhondas is simply wrong as a matter of fact, not opinion. (If he still thinks a Civic is cheaper to own than an Elantra, let him give us figures. If he just keeps repeating his resale value mantra, then we know it has no more validity than most things car salesmen say.
By the way, at 8 months and 6500 miles, my Elantra GLS 5-speed is still running flawlessly - one of the best cars I have ever owned.
George,
Your empiracal data assumes a lot!
At this point it's pretty hard to quanitify total costs of ownership over a five year period.
And...your wonderful warranty does NOT cover everything...read the fine print!
Anyway...cool your jets, guys. the pot needed stirring, didn't it?
And...there is much more to a car than a LIMITED warranty!
"At this point it's pretty hard to quanitify total
costs of ownership over a five year period."
Then how can he say, as he has been saying over and over, that in the long run, eg 5 years, the Civic is cheaper to own than the Elantra due to resale value? Obviously, his claim has no factual basis at all - as he now virtually admits. But the facts, that is the figures, are actually out there, and they show that the Elantra is much cheaper to own, long term as well as short term, than the Civic. As I have noted, a comparably equipped Civic in Tucson costs $4000 more than an Elantra. When you then add initial sales tax (7%, which comes to $280 extra for the Civic), finance charges, annual taxes based on price, higher insurance premiums for the Civic, loss of income (interest, stocks, whatever) on that extra money, and a much longer warranty for the Elantra, any proportional difference in resale value after, say, 5 or 10 years, fades into insignificance. As for the Hyundai warranty being limited, does isellhondas claim that the Honda warranty is unlimited? That's not what Honda - or any other automobile manufacturer - says. Of course the Hyundai warranty is limited, as are all car warranties, but the Hyundai warranty is much longer than the Honda warranty. Comparisons of the Civic and the Elantra are surely valid, and some people may prefer one or the other for reasons satisfactory to themselves, which is all that ultimately matters. I test-drove both, and I already owned a Honda Accord (now my wife's car), and I found the Elantra manifestly superior to the Civic in all aspects that mattered to me. Someone else might differ - many do, as shown by the Civic's sales figures. But no one can say, because it is not true, that the Civic is cheaper to acquire, maintain, or own. It is that kind of claim, directly contrary to fact, which makes car salesmen so untrusted, indeed the very symbol of untrustworthiness.
Once again , I'm not the person who started this topic.
What makes ownership costs hard to predict is the uncertain value for Hyundai.
Currently at trade in time, they DO NOT bring wholesale book. They get bid for much less than that even by Hyundai dealers.
They are a VERY hard sell!!
But, I admit that factor *could* change.
As for the "high quality" product?
I also agree that the latest offerings may represent a huge imporvement over the earlier offerings that I think all of us would agree were lackluster at best.
I am NOT bashing Hyundai...Just trying to express another opinion/viewpoint.
I could very easilly modify my opinion at some point down the road.
I dont think anyone will question the great value these Hyundai's car has (george00 provides a good models to see the real value of a car). Regarding the resale, we will just have to see 3-4 years down the road. Right now I'm pretty confident I made the right purchase.
p.s: I owned a 99 Corolla and 00 Elantra.
Service count for corolla=0
Service count for elantra=0
For the base elantra you get power steering and brakes, power windows, locks, mirrors, air conditioning, lumbar support in the seats, fantastic 100k warranty, and the ability to really haggle the price. Engine has 140 hp. i got mine with standard features plus rims, premium stereo and cruise control for $10,800
The civic standard features includes power steering and brakes and a am/fm radio. no air conditioning, or power packages. base model has 106 hp. starting price of a civic is about $13,000. I am sure isellhondas will correct me if i am wrong.
The point: I am not bashing the civic. Its a reliable car. I am just putting things into perspective. The elantra is a far better deal. People buy the civic for quality. Well, with a 100k mile warranty, i rather save 6 grand and use the warranty every now and then the elantra has a bigger engine, more features such as power windows, locks and mirrors, cruise control premium stereo, rims for thousands less then the bare bones civic. How can you go wrong? You question reliability. ive had mine for 4 months now, no problems yet and even if i did, its covered under warranty.
So what do you have to say about that Isellhondas? Ask anyone in here who owns an elantra, no one has had problems with theirs. Hyundai is back and kicking the civic in the [non-permissible content removed].
From Cars.com which got its info from Intellichoice (since I am not going to pay $5 for the intellichoice data from IC)
Depreciation
00 Elantra Sedan (not listed by model) 8,231
00 Civic EX (highest depreciation) 6,956
The DX was 4K and VP and LX were 5400, 5500 resp.
This was based on estimates fro 2000-2004. Here's the official Depreciation definition Based on the assumption that you keep your vehicle for 5 years, after which time you sell it in a private party transaction (not sold to a dealer). Also assumes that the vehicle is in good condition having been previously driven an average of 14,000 miles per year, and will be driven that same number of miles per year for the next five years.
here's the links...
Hyundai
http://Reports.IntelliChoice.com/reports/sponsors/NATIONAL/frameset.asp?SPON=national&DEFSPON=CV&PROD=&REPORT=027002&P1=0&TRID=&YEAR=2000&MAKE=Hyundai&MODEL=Elantra&rv=yes
Civic
http://Reports.IntelliChoice.com/reports/sponsors/NATIONAL/frameset.asp?SPON=national&DEFSPON=CV&PROD=&REPORT=026004&P1=0&TRID=&YEAR=2000&MAKE=Honda&MODEL=Civic&rv=yes
Apples and oranges...If an item is sold cheaply there is a reason.
Want to revisit the warranty issue...?
Hyundai HAD to do something! They had a terrible reputation and went to the limited ten year warranty in a desperate attempt to restore some confidence in the car. VW did the same thing for the same reasons a couple of years ago.
The BEST warranty of all is the one you never have to use!!
And...you *pay* for that warranty. It's figured into the price of the car!
But...If you really feel that the Hyundai is such a better value, good for you! Sounds like you are happy and that's what matters.
VW? Despite its many quality problems, VW offers the shortest warranty - only 2 years - in the entire industry, a fact which kept me out of their showrooms.
As for the price of the Hyundai warranty being "figured into the price of the car!" (isellhondas' phrase, including the strange exclamation point), everything you get in a Hyundai or a Honda or a Rolls Royce, is included in the price of the car, which is known among economists as the "no free lunch" doctrine. What is relevant to this forum is that, for your money, Hyundai gives you a much better warranty than does Honda (or GM or Ford, for that matter). Anyway, the point I and other posters have been making, and which isellhondas refuses even to address with actual facts and figures, is that a Hyundai Elantra is thousands of dollars cheaper to own and maintain than a comparably equipped Honda Civic - at the outset, in 1 year, in 5 years, and in 10 years. If you prefer the Civic, and are willing to pay the additional thousands, fine. But don't let any car salesman persuade you that you'll be saving money, because you won't.
Marketing, pure and simple, and probably a smart move on their part. Some people think a long warranty is everything. Isn't it a 10 year powertrain warranty? Everyting else is 3/36?
I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong.
And I think VW has the same warranty except they only give a 2/24 on everything non powertrain.
Which is the stuff that usually breaks!
As for GM...Well, they make marketing decisions too. As long as sales and profits are acceptable they aren't about to take on the exposure of a longer warranty.
And I'm glad you agree with me about the price of the warranty being figured into the price of the car. Again, it's just marketing.
I can't disagree with you on the resale point because it is true. I've found out firsthand when I traded in my '97 Tiburon on a '00 Tib. I was upside down almost 2K on my new car loan. But this was my own stupidity for trading in a car that was a little less than 3 yrs. old. There's no doubt that it will take a few years before majority of the American public will figure out what we already know. We're getting substantial quality for less price. The answer to this (for now) is to keep your car for at least the duration of your loan.
As for the basic Hyundai warranty it is as follows: 5 yr. 60,000 Bumper to Bumper
5 yr. Unlimited mileage roadside assistance - this includes accidents, lockouts, dead batteries, and running out of gas.
10 yr. 100,000 mi. Powertrain
3 yr. 36,000 Paint
Since we are indeed paying for the warranty, it's a testament to Hyundai that they can still offer such outstanding value.
Your big misconception here is that you think that if something is offered for less money, then it's automatically inferior. Why haven't you figured out that it costs less to produce a car in Korea than it does in the U.S. or Japan? Plus the fact that Hyundai builds their own ships to transport the vehicles and produces their own steel, and many electronic parts too.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why an equivalent vehicle can be produced for less money under these circumstances. I hope this clears up some of your haziness.
Boltguy