Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

chrisjericho

Thanks for the info. The GP does have the curtains available but it is pretty rare to see a car with them installed. The Pontiac web site has a quote about how this model was "designed to be the safest grand prix ever" with a picture of the curtains deployed.

I seem to remember that there was a Saturn model (maybe the L-series) that had poor side impact crash results and they made the side curtains standard. That is the only fix I could see GM making in time for 05.

bigdaddycoats

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=autofile&loc_code=index&content_code=01970132

midlifecrisis

All their compliments are related to the GTP's superchargered power and handling. So if they reviewed the GT1/GT2 I suppose their review would not be kind.

tateos

Just heard them this AM for the first time - I got in and my wife had left the radio on loud. She likes to crank the music and she likes the music with a lot of bass. Anyway the song that was on was Funky Cold Medina by Tone Loc and I heard the buzzing you mention, even on low volume and reduced bass settings. It was not coming from the speakers, rather it was caused by the speakers ability to reproduce the very deep bass at loud volumes. We have the 2004 GTP with the Monsoon system and satellite radio; excellent sound quality, but obviously, there is something or things that rattle and buzz in the rear shelf area - some poor design or build quality for the interior I guess. A little disappointing, but not a real big deal I suppose.

RM

etcb

RM-

I like to crank my music and this problem is definitely an annoyance. I played with the equalizer to minimize the rattle but that trick does not always work. I suspect its either coming from the speaker covers or underneath panel. I'm going to take a closer look and see if I can't isolate were exactly the noise ion coming from. If you make any discoveries let me know.

Thanks
CB

setzer

My neighbor/friend has a '04 Grand Prix that she got a while back, and she is a flight attendent. So everyday she has to fly she drives her Grand Prix in to the airport. She says it is a really nice car and it is fun to drive. just thought i would tell ppl that.

midlifecrisis

That sums up my experience as well. Fun to drive. I'm not concerned by all the people propagating the negative stuff.

chevyguy657

another Impala LS and SS when my car was in for a brake job at the dealer today.

While I don't want an Impala, I can't for the life of me understand how the rear of the GP is so cramped, given the same wheelbase.

midlifecrisis, don't shoot the messengers. It's the media and NHTSA saying the "bad stuff" and us just reporting it.

I could overlook the rear accomodations (a bit begrudgingly), but not the crash results. Even if GM surprises me and fixes it for '05, the new test results won't be out for a year, and that's too long for me to wait. I'm very disappointed.

Also, why are the Impala LS and SS each a grand or two more ($) than the GP? I thought Pontiacs were supposed to be pricier. Granted, the rebate on the Impala is $4,000, compared to $2,500 on the GP (which puts them even), but still.....

etcb

I've isolated the rattle. Its caused by excessive vibration of the rear window when the monsoon is cranked up. The vibration causes a panel in the head liner to rattle.

midlifecrisis

I too noticed that the Impala I wanted was more money than the GP I wanted. I could not figure it out either. Bottom line was that the Impala is a good car (I rode in a friend's on a 5-hour trip in one), but I couldn't get over some of the styling cues, especially the rear end.

montanafan

Actually rebates on Grand Prix (atleast in Northeast) are $2,500 base, $500 Bonus and $755 Equipment (GT1 w/Driver's Package & GT2 ) or $665 (GTP w/Leather).

Also found it interesting that the reduction in driver's NHTSA stars is for the increase in Femur Load which dosen't reflect the improvement in Head Injury Criterion. The front passenger stars stayed at 4 even though the Head, Chest and Right Femur numbers are lower.

chevyguy657

I had such a close call today, it really got to me. 85-ish year-old in a brand new GT2 nearly had an offset with me, then spun out and creamed into someone's front living room, after sideswiping 2 other vehicles in the process.

Most his age drive Camrys, Centurys, Grand Muckie-Mucks and LeSabres. Must have been his latter-age crisis. Or was it that you can get them on the cheap?

I didn't stick around, since I wasn't directly involved, but left a statement. To be fair, he likely shouldn't have been driving to begin with, but they all do. So, GPs now are an old geezer thing, I guess (just kidding, mostly). ;-)

Best bet he's a goner.

Sure I'll hear about it this evening on the news.

Doing good, GM. Structural integrity I'm sure helped here.

tomcat630

Impala is a stretched W body, classified as "full sized" compared to the GP. So that is why it's roomier.

chevyguy657

Here's to you for trying.

Have one for me.

The wheelbase is the same. The length is the same give or take an inch. I'll bet, side by side, the front (windshield forward) of the GP is much longer. Should be better in crash tests, at least a double 5, no?

tomcat630

"For trying"??

Look up old articles for when the 2000 Impala was new, it stated that the interior dimensions were pushed out. Also, I NEVER said anything about wheelbase being different.

Look up the stats for interior, then go ask someone at GM why they made the Impala full size and GP still Middie.

johnclineii

And they won't answer you. GM contends the Impala is a midsize car. They do this as Americans often shun full size cars. The large Ford Five Hundred coming out this fall is also being marketed as a mid-size, which it most certainly is NOT.

midlifecrisis

There are very few actual full-size cars on the market any more. And they are almost always tailored to older drivers.

I would consider the Interpid a full-size car, that thing is huge!

tomcat630

GM marketing calls it "mid size", because "full sized car" is looked on as "old fashioned". Of course "Full sized truck" is "cool".

EPA classes the Impala as Full sized, and makes it elegible to be a Chicago taxi cab. They only allow cars classed as full sized.

icvci

My friend is using a new GP as a rental while his Acura TL is being fixed after an accident. Well, we went out to lunch in it on Friday. Two comments -

1) How much did they pay Tupperware for the plastics? Geeeesh, that dash feel and pattern is atrocious.

2) Why did they make the back seat so ridiculously uncomfortable? The door panels are a mile high and the seat is on the floor. Thank goodness there was no one next to me so I could put my legs across both sides. What's up with the door lock button being up and to the left? Weird.

Mr. Lutz, if this is improvement, it won't be long before you're behind Toyota as the #1 car manufacturer in the world.

johnclineii

Why you insulting Tupperware? Tupperware makes GREAT stuff!

The back seat? I posted this for the first time on this forum a long time ago and was widely blasted. That back seat, which has actually been modified to be better, is horrendous.

I owned a 98 GTP. I wouldn't even consider an 04. I post here in the hopes that GM will consider the customers it has run off, like me.

ruski

I am sure it was not a GTP though.

Hey, did you friend's Acura have a broken tranny yet?

cameljockey1

Look if you can handle driving a chicks car buy an accord or camary-period. The 04 Grand Prix is all about reliability and perceived performance. Drive an accord - What do you get besides forgettable Japanese styling. At least your back seat passengers won't fall asleep. This car handles as good as it looks and delivers great gas mileage at 30-miles per gallon on the road. Thanks for listening. The old Cameldriver-

orwoody

The size can vary based on the class system used. They can be rated by size & weight(auto industry) or the interior volume(EPA).
http://www.sizes.com/built/automobiles.htm

midlifecrisis

The back seat ain't great. But I've had dozens of people back there for short trips and there hasn't been too much complaining. You get used to it and deal with it. The other positive aspects of the car far outweigh that negative.

exalteddragon1

My friend is using a new Acura as a rental while his Audi is being fixed after an accident. Well, we went out to lunch in it on Friday. Two comments -

1) How much did they pay Tupperware for the plastics? Geeeesh, that dash feel and pattern is atrocious.

the above did not happen, but to make a point,
you are comparing apples to oranges.
Acura is a "lux" car, pontiac is an image/performance car. Also, the materials in the '04 are not that bad, with all the rebates on it depending on where you are, you can get a GTP compG for 25K, someone i think on this board posted that they got one for just over 20K!

There is no car in any segment (for the above price) that matches the performance/dimensions/handling of the pontiac GTP comp G. Also, untill the new acura's came out, the styling on these cars was horrible. The GP is, I think most ppl on this board would agree, a beautiful car (especially in silver ).

tomcat630

Some act as if Mr. Lutz totally designed the 2004 GP. He only had them change the prototype grille at the last minute.

midlifecrisis

GM products going to production now are finally seeing the influences of Mr. Lutz. The whole process takes years.

spartanmann

It might be possible that most of the people on this board like the styling. However the vast majority of car buyers are not on this board. General consensus of virtually every major GP review is that the car is still a decade behind the competition, and the styling while pleasant is hardly inspiring or groundbreaking. I'm sure it is a very good driver's car, but that won't be enough to sell them as "all the rebates" are required already. I don't think Lutz can be blamed for this one, but I still think he should be forced to ride in the back seat surrounded by all that beautiful plastic for a couple hours. Maybe he'll gain a better appreciation of the things some people have to tolerate when they buy GM.

dialn24

Maybe I am reading the wrong reviews, but I have yet to see the words "a decade behind the competition" in any of them. In fact, most of the reviews I have seen are positive. However; styling is very subjective. It's based on opinion, and not everyone can agree on everything.

That being said, I love my 2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp-G in Greystone Metallic with the Charcoal leather. I ended up getting the Premium Audio package, sunroof, chrome styled wheels, XM Radio, and Comp-G package. I personally love the look inside and out. Many of the cars people seem to love the styling of in this class I find hideous. The new Nissan styling is a prime example. It seems to be overkill and I find it ugly inside and out.

As far as performance goes, I love the car. TapShift is a pretty cool toy, but I do most of my driving without it. Keep in mind, probably 75% of the time, I don't have people in the back seat. I am not married and I do not have any children. So, that doesn't really come into play with me at all.

Basically, I just love the look of this car. The red brake calipers seem to match up well with the chrome wheels and the greystone color. I thought about silver when I got this car, but I just liked this color better and figure there will be tons of silver ones out there in no time. I do know the Grand Prix is selling pretty well around here right now.

Take care all!

spartanmann

Check Automobile Magazine for starters. I'm not saying the Grand Prix is a bad car. Everyone today builds a good vehicle. But if you're going to compete with the best - you can't have the shortcomings of the Grand Prix. On the other hand - if you are only interested in the peformance aspects - the shortcomings are a good deal for you as the rebates make the cost of purchase lower. Of course the resale suffers as well as any previous Grand Prix owner knows.

dialn24

I did just check out Automobile magazine, and I still didn't see anything regarding the Grand Prix being "a decade behind the competition". Frankly, I don't need a review to formulate my opinion on anything (or one that could be driven by advertising, has a chance to become biased, and is still nothing more then a writer's opinion......of course there are reviews out there that aren't going to like any car). This is what I do know. The Toyotas, Hondas, and Nissan sedan cars of the world are boring looking to me. There isn't anything special about them at all, and frankly, I find quite a few of them putrid (the new Nissans especially) to look at inside and out. So, looks are important to me, and in my opinion, none of them look near as nice as the car sitting in my garage right now (I do understand this is an opinion, and they are very subjective).

Do I think the Grand Prix has room for improvement. Absolutely! However; I do know this for a fact, there isn't a sports sedan at this price range or lower I would rather have. That's what is important to me, and rebates are not going to steer me one way or the other. Granted, resale on american cars is typically worse then a car from Japan. However; that isn't going to make me drive a car I find boring, ugly, and not even remotely interesting.

dialn24

Out of curiousity, what do you consider the best sports sedan in this price range? In addition, what kind of vehicle do you drive? Only curious.

Take care

spartanmann

The folliwng is from Automobile Mags reveiw

"Phoenix— We have seen Pontiac's problem, and it isn't cladding. Although its 2004 Grand Prix appears scantily ribbed, it is still slavishly obeisant to Pontiac's past. The new Grand Prix rides into the sporty family segment on its laurels, a little underprepared for the competition. It uses the 1997 car's platform, and while the new car is a big improvement over the last, it is still a rehash. Critical gains in areas such as headlamps, engine, and structure can't mask that this car is a baby step toward greatness, not the quantum leap we were expecting. GM claims the car is 80 percent new. We'd say it's more like 20 percent old."

To answer your question - have no idea what the best sports sedan is as I drive a Honda Odyssey. My only experience with the Grand Prix was recently being forced to ride for several hours in the back seat of his new 2004. My buddy is like you, he absolutely loves the car - no surprise as he was driving. But if we had switched seats his opinion would have changed in a hurry. I have ridden in the back of a relatively new Accord, Impala, and Intrepid. Absolutely no comparison in seat comfort, ride quality, noise etc... not to mention the cheap and poorly fitting interior materials that GM continues to use.

I grew up in a GM town and would like nothing better than to see them get their act together with all their product lines, as they are doing with Cadillac. However market share is down to 28% and they will continue to lose market share and profitability making cars like the Grand Prix. There just aren't enough people out there willing to accept the drawbacks of the car, regardless of the price.

dialn24

That's the review I read, and I still didn't see anything about it being "a decade behind the competition". In fact, that is one of the more negative reviews on the car I have seen.

Here is a small part of one from a writer that liked the car:

"A 1999 Pontiac Grand Prix GT sedan has been a regular in my driveway going on five years now - driven by myself, my wife and my teenage son. It has been fairly dependable and enjoyable.

But having recently spent a week in a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, my car comes off as a poor, downtrodden cousin. The new Grand Prix, extensively reworked for the 2004 model year, is so much better than mine that I almost feel like I was suckered into buying my car when the Y2K bug was still big news.

Even taking into account that I bought the GT instead of the GTP with a supercharged version of General Motors' delightful 3.8-liter V-6, the new Grand Prix has improved by approximately a light-year over its previous self."

All this means is that a review is very subjective. This individual has direct experience with Grand Prixs and notices the differences between it and the previous generations. I too have direct experience with both cars, and I also think this car is quite a bit better then the previous generation.

As far as the rear seat, I definitely agree with you on that. However; that rarely comes into play with me. I am either alone in the car or it's myself and my girlfriend going out to do something.

I would suggest driving a new Grand Prix before you formulate an opinion on it entirely based on your experience in the back seat of your friend's car. There is no doubt that rear seat comfort is one of the areas that I think this car has room for improvement. When I first looked at a Grand Prix (granted it was a GT1 with uglycloth) on the showroom floor, I was not impressed. In fact, I was going to look at something else because of it. Then I saw a GT2 with leather and in a different color, so I decided to at least drive one. This is my first Grand Prix ever, so I am not a diehard previous owner of this model of cars (not that there is anything wrong with that). It didn't take long driving to realize just how much I liked this car. For myself, it drives this good. I have worked at a Nissan dealership in the past, and I have been a huge fan of their cars. However; I may be in the minority, but I think what they are putting out now is just too far over the top and I find them boring and horrid to look at. I do know what kind of looks I get driving in this car, and I have heard many comments sitting at a gas station filling up, they are almost all positive.

In my opinion, GM is starting to put on some very nice products. The Colorado is a definitely improvement over the S-10, the Malibu is a definite improvement, and there are other cars to look forward to like the Equinox and what is being called the G-6 (which should be a dramatic improvement over the current Grand Am).

As far as quality goes, the plant that makes the Grand Prix is award winning. They are known to put out some great products as far as quality goes. I don't see any obvious blunders in this category. Some don't like the thought that the dash of the Grand Prix has a lot of plastic that is kind of peiced together. I like the way the car looks inside and out.

I think GM has a winner in this car and as I said before, I can't think of one car at this price or under I would rather have.

Good luck with your minivan!

evandro

It's funny that it's been mentioned that the new GP is "just" 80% new when the Japanese cars are usually 40-60% new between generations...

<cynicism>
Of course, Japanese cars are perfect in each and every sense, it's the American cars that need to be bashed whether they're done way or another, always.
</cynicism>

midlifecrisis

Pretty funny how someone who read a (supposed bad) review of the Grand Prix is trying to convince an actual OWNER of a Grand Prix that it is a bad car....

dialn24 and I know the real deal, and we like our Grand Prixs - not that we have to justify our purchases to anyone but ourselves....

dan165

I can think of lots of other cars than have poor back seats, big deal. You sound like a typical GM basher and I have seen your posts in other forums.

GP is a great car, it smooth reliable and looks great. Yes GM can improve the back seat but otherwise the car is nice and the price is right. A nice 3800 for the price of a 4 banger Accord, I'll take the GP anyday.

carguy58

Well they must be doing something right. That their hottest automaker in the indusrty right now alongside with Cadillac.

Oh yeah somebody mentioned resale value on the Grand Prix before: before the whole 0% bannanza and rebates Consumer Reports actually rated the Grand Prix's resale value as average so depreciation wasn't that bad on the Grand Prix.

etcb

Come up front and sit in the driver's seat! Is that all there is to complain about. Back seats,, come on! Get real!

Glad GTP Owner
04 GTP Graystone.. Varooom!~ See Ya in my rear view!

midlifecrisis

Every time I slip into the driver's seat I have to crack a smile. And there are enough cockpit goodies to keep me happy for a very long time!

dialn24

All I know is that Nissan sales in the area I am from are horrific. The owner is scrambling because he isn't seeing any results, there isn't hardly any traffic, and they just aren't seeing new vehicles leave the lot. So, they may be the 2nd hottest car maker out there, but that surely isn't reflected anywhere near where I am from.

As far as being "over the top", that was said as opinion and was referred to as that. Nissan makes some very good cars, but I find their styling terrible these days. The Altima is a decent looking car, but I think the new Maxima is just downright putrid.

All I know is I just put about 500 more miles on my car in the last 3 days. It was comfortable, drove and handled great, and I definitely just love the way this car drives.

The best part is I got one heck of a deal on this car. I mean how can you go wrong when you buy a car that stickers for $31320 for right under $24,000 without a trade? So, resale might not be great based on that $31320 sticker, but I didn't pay near that to drive a loaded up GTP Comp-G. I don't regret it at all.

etcb

7K off sticker on a GTP that's one heck of a deal! Try getting a deal like that at Nissan. No way!!

Glad GTP Owner
04 GTP Graystone.. Varooom!~ See Ya in my rear view!

regfootball

the flip side of the 'great deal' is the fact that the sticker price is an absolute absurdity to begin with.

spartanmann

Funny how people read what they want and not what was written. I never said the Grand Prix was a bad car. In fact I said that nobody builds a bad car. I'm not a GM basher and have been very complimentary of their new top notch products for Cadillac, and their SUV and truck lines. But to call the Grand Prix a winner is very humorous. It won't sell any better than the previous version. The rebates mean GM won't profit on the vehicle, and the poor resale values will continue to be a kick in the butt for their owners. What's wrong with expecting GM to build vehicles that are better than the competition instead of being pretty good as long as you stay out of the back seat? If they can do it for Cadillac - why not for Pontiac owners? GM market share is down to 28%. Time to wake up and accept what it takes to be competitive in today's market. That's not GM bashing - just facing reality. By the way, as I also said - one of those cars I rode in that was much better in rear seat comfort, ride quality and interior materials was a 2003 Impala. Of course you'll still read what you want instead of what was written.

spartanmann

From Edmunds - "If you can put up with a boisterous but well-intentioned engine and inconsistent build and materials quality, give this Pontiac a try. If refinement is what you're ultimately after, however, better stick with the imports."

From Car and Driver "Good looking adequacy enhanced by incentives"

You guys should't be defensive. Everyone including me agrees with you on the strongpoints and weaknesses of the car. You're just willing to accept the shortcomings. Most people won't and will buy something else. That would explain that 28% market share. Laid off GM employees and parts suppliers probably consider this to be more of a problem than you guys do.

vcjumper

GT2's here seem advertised pretty low, cash price as low as Accord LX.

dialn24

Wow! Strike up the bell this poster has had an epiphany.

I will say it much slower this time, reviews are subjective. There is no way to completely take bias out of the equation, and using selective methods by pointing out the reviews that back up your points mean absolutely nothing. For every review that is negative about the car, there are quite a few that are positive. I would love to see one car under 40K that every person reviewing it loved. It won't happen, because it doesn't exist. Some are known to be biased towards imports, some are driven by advertising, and others are generally just hard on everything they review.

As far as most people not be able to get past the shortcomings of the vehicle, I say most people won't be able to get by the bland, boring style of the imports being put out (a Honda van for instance). Since one make and model is only a very small percentage of the total sales of vehicle (minus rental fleets), there is no way to statistically prove this point either way. Therefore, it's moot.

You can type the same thing over and over again until your fingers bleed, but it means nothing. You are using subjective reviews to point out a viewpoint that you have, and using hasty generalizations by implying that most people won't be able to get past the shortcomings of the car. It's just another viewpoint you can't convince me with any rationale explanation.

This is what I do know by what you have said. You haven't driven the car, you don't own the car, you aren't in the market for this type of car, and you own a van. Other then coming here to put down a vehicle that other people own or are thinking of owning, I don't see your interest in this forum. It's public though, so that's your right.

This is also what I know. You couldn't give me a van and make me drive one of those things.

dialn24

I have experience at both a GM and Nissan dealership. I found that the markup is pretty close on equivalent cars. GM tends to go the customer rebate route, and Nissan uses dealer cash much more often. It isn't all the time, but it is quite common to be able to do the same discounts on either when everything is considered (holdbacks, cap cost reductions, advertising, etc).

As far as the deal I got on my car, that's easy. I found out what net net pricing was on the car and went from there (MSRP 31320, net net was $27,780 approximately).

johnclineii

The marketplace decides what vehicles are worth. If you can buy a $31k vehicle for less than $24k without a trade, there is a reason. If the manufacturer and/or dealer could have sold it for one dime more to someone else, they would have.

That being said, if you could have bought a vehicle you were happier with for the same or less money, or the additional money was justified and available to you and you thought it the best use of your resources, you would have.

It all evens out at the end of the day, economically, and the best cars (dogs, houses) NORMALLY command the highest prices.

And so it goes.

As for me, still looking. The Impala LS has 148.000 miles on it, and it needs to go by this coming winter...

If I could buy a 98 GTP new, I would...

dindak

I have never seen you post a positive GM comment in all my time on these boards.

We all know Edmunds does not like GPs. No news flash.