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Audi A6



  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,642
    Audi has found itself in a different market to which they must quickly adjust. Interestingly AFAIK the A8 and A/S4 still rank as bargains in their respective classes but the A6, Audi's "bread and butter" car for so long is presently in a poor competitive position.


    I wonder if Audi ahould speed up the transition to DSG gearboxes as a means of differentiating their product line. If you have tried the DSG you'll know it ads much to the sporting character of the car while retaing the ease of a TC-based AT.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • . . .my original rant was truncated, no wonder it doesn't end on a full sentence: Here goes. . .


    "I am frustrated with the roll out of the new products, the lack of "the whole package" approach (read on for an analogy.)"


    The point:


    I don't know or care if you are a Democrat, Republican, Independent or Agnostic -- but if I were Audi, I think I'd want the Republican Marketing Machine to "run my new car introduction campaign."


    I heard, Jerry Springer (who as you may know used to be the Mayor of Cincinnati and was the unsuccessful gubernatorial candidate some years ago, before he became "Jerry Springer") on a Sunday talk show answer the question why John Kerry lost with the following: "A. he had a bad campaign and B. he was not the best candidate."


    Audi is currently like John Kerry -- the campaign (of course now in hindsight) was not as good as the competition and the product, despite what you may think about the competition is not perceived to be as good.


    Audi needs to get some cars on the street -- which would be cheaper than "fixing what is wrong (according to some editors and some customers even) with them" (power, handling, perceived ride quality, etc.)


    Two things LEAP to mind: get aggressive with the lease programs and put some ads on the shows on TV that have the demographic (the VIEWING AUDIENCE) to whom they are hoping to sell their cars.


    What do you think?


    I'll tell ya, what I think, the Infiniti M35 AWD should make Audi's four rings go all aquiver!
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    And…don’t forget Audi’s own cousin.


    A new Passat with 280hp, AWD, 6 Speed auto (for now), TOTALLY loaded (with options it seems from the Phaeton) for a price under 40K; which seems to be the size of the pre 2005 A6.


    I did expect, not sure why, that he new 3.2 A6 would have ranked first (or a close second).
  • Mark,


    I have read that Audi have changed upper management, particualarly the marketing department. If audi sales in the US are onluy 10% world wide, perhaps it was more important to get the other 90% going first.


    There is opportunity here! Yes, and the cars are not here yet. Why offer discounts and lease deals on cars that don't yet exist?


    You are not the typical shopper by a long shot. YOu are far more sophisticated and I respect your views, but they are very oriented to your situation and your frustration. I agree, the A6 launch has not been smooth, and them streamlining the engine choice has taken out choices, but might eventually lead to greater profits.


    I think you should call the owner of your dealership, and tell him that you want to stay in the family, but the current offerings and price structure seems out of line, and is there any short term solution that might work for both of you.


    Either put you in a S4 at cost. Or, lease you a car for a year (maybe yours) with a full warranty. Then either the A6 you desire comes available, or a 3.2 Manual A4.


    Or, go lease a G35 sport with a manual for a lot less money and have fun! Or one of those funky awd super golfs with all the bells and whistles and save money!
  • Certainly there is more than a germ of truth that some of my statements stem from my (and my wife's) personal frustrations regarding the roll out of the new A6 and the upcoming A4. However, I am far from unique in this frustration. Here on edmunds and on several other town-halls across the Internet, many folks are having a "whine" or two.


    One thing I notice about Audi owners -- they develop fierce loyalty. With that comes the desire to make the brand (perhaps for altruistic perhaps for selfish reasons) better.


    I read that BMW sells 5 times as many cars in the US as does Audi (I have not confirmed this). I cannot for the life of me understand how this could be so -- historically. Yet, posters here on edmunds have "wanted" a new A6 but were just unwilling to pay over $100 more per month than a MORE EXPENSIVE BMW 5 series can be had for.


    I assume Audi monitors the chat rooms and "whine and cheese" blogs all over.


    My concerns are not that Audi does not or cannot or has not built superior products -- I believe they have and do for the most part. I also believe that until recently they have enjoyed little competition and they have -- until now -- also been the "bargain" in the Premium German car market.


    Now that they have cars that are being praised (rather than disdained) they should -- IMO -- be as aggressive as possible to attempt to gain market share.


    The new RL, M, BMW's and others from all over the globe are, in some ways, imitating Audi. The heck of it is, they are getting away with implying that "they are original thinkers."


    It burns me up to hear someone talk about their AWD BMW or Mercedes and when I inform them that Audis Quattros have been around for 25 years -- they seem surprised, as if to say, "I didn't know Audi made AWD cars, too!"




    End of another vent, er, rant.
  • There are lots of germs of truth. And I won't argue with an attorney!


    I think Audi has been the premier stepchild and those whom don't know of "quattro" are simply gonna buy Mercedes and BMW because they are good cars, and have cache value on the nameplate.


    Audi's have been great bargains, but the resale values is always been the telltale sign, and so it remains.


    Regards to your situation, I think you have covered all reasonale points and if it comes down to you wanting the A6, its a matter of price. As far as a manual, thats a different story. As far as getting a good deal on a awd acura, I don't know the priceing. The BMW, Infiniti and Lexus are not yet available. Even when so, you might do that well on pricing (lease residual/rates) on a new hot model for some time. I guess its just what can you run out and get tomorrow, which is a BMW, but not awd.


    THe 4matic mercedes is and has always been too overpriced.


    I don't know what your answer should be, but it might just be a bad case of timing as to when your lease is up, and what is available.


    As you know, leasing the "hot" car has never been a bargain.


    The problem with audi might very well being addressed and could change at teh flip of a switch.


    Good luck, and hope you find what your looking for!
  • Mark, I am one of those owners who was waiting, WAITING for the new A6 to come out. I owned an '00 A8, leased an '01 A6, and was salivating at the thoughts and prospects of the C6. Since I've had bad experiences with first model year cars, I was leasing this time around and had budgeted (I thought) accordingly.


    I expected to pay more than my '01 2.7. Figured the MSRP would live about 5-6k above my '01, and knew the incentives wouldn't be as great- at least intially.


    But......$800+/month for a 50k car? My ideal car was, I believe, $50,020. I could get $1500 off sticker, and was still looking at the high 7's before tax.


    I now drive a 530i. I don't have quattro, which stinks, but I have snows and can live with that fact at a full $150+/month less of a payment.


    All things being equal, I'd be driving the A6. In fact, not even equal- I'd probably have paid another $30-40 per month to do so. But a 60% residual and a 3% finance charge on my BMW lease just blew the A6 out of the water.
  • To expand on previous posts, I wanted to give my impressions on the C6 to my 530i.


    Interior-wise, the edge is clearly Audi. The BMW is nice, solid, and upscale. The Audi, IMO, is class-leading. Borderline opulent.


    Ride-wise, I didn't see the stiffness that people are complaining about. Granted, I maybe drove the A6 3.2 for a total of one and a half hours over the course of three test drives, but I felt it stiffer than the previous model but still quite comfortable. Not a harsh stiffness- more of a road feel. Handling was very good, and I drove it one time in some slushy weather. BMW ride is fabulous- but side by side I really couldn't tell you which I prefer. In the winter, probably Audi, since I have dedicated snows on the BMW that provides a bit harsher ride than an Audi with all seasons- or even performance snows like the Blizzak LM.


    Toy-wise? Both have the current stuff- bluetooth, nav, etc. A relative has the keyless entry on the Acura and hates it- so I don't really see much of an advantage there. I like the Nav on the BMW a bit more than the Audi Nav on my brother's '04 A8 (which should be comparable to the C6's). Also, I like the I-drive and don't love MMI. BMW dumbed down the I-drive from the initial 7 series debacle, and the MMI seems a little more cumbersome to me. I have the voice activation, however, which allows me to circumvent almost every function.


    All in all, I really like both cars. If I lived in the South, I'd probably opt for the BMW. In the Northeast, as a buyer, probably the Audi. Leasee? BMW, hands down, which is where I am.


    I would like to add that I've been an "audi guy" for about 6 years- never thought I'd be driving something else. The new A4 will be in a class alone with the new 3-series, but again from what I've heard they will lose the lease battle. My dealer says $500+ for the 3.2 model nicely
  • monet5monet5 Posts: 32
    In case anyone is interested RIM has released an update for the Blackberry 7100t. Its the 4.0 operating system and finally the 7100t and the Audi Bluetooth and operate together. Previously with 3.8 operating system the 2 devises "paired", but no functionality beyond that. Now with 4.0 they pair, calls can be generated and received through the MMI and every time you return to the car the devises auto pair up.


    The only downside is that the Blackberry's address/phone book doesn't download to the MMI like some other phones.


    Other Blackberry devices also have the 4.0 OS so if you have been having problems check with your carrier (Tmobile, AT&T, etc..) to see is the upgrade is out.
  • when it comes down to leasing, it really comes down to how much are you willing to pay a month and what is the most you will get for that $$$. If I were buying a car for x amount, then I buy whatever I like for that amount.


    If a similar equiped vehicle leases for $150 less a month, then that is the way to go. A case in point is , I just leased a Lexus ES330 for my wife with a $500 total out of pocket and my payment is $390 a month with 15k/year for 3 years (Camry prices here!). She had her heart set on a similar priced TL. When I told her that Acura wanted $490 for the same monthly payment and similar equiped car, she said NO WAY!!!!!! Granted, if buying was the intention, we probably would have gotten the TL for the same amount of money as the Lexus.


    I like Audis, but because of the high price when new and the steep depreciation in the first few years, I opted to buy an 1.5 year old for 25K, It still has 2.5 years left of warranty/30K miles and I will not take a big hit if I decide to sell it in the next few years. Maybe in two years, I will be able to buy a used 2005 C6 for 25-28K. Considering these vehicles include all the services and warranties, it might not be hard to find one in mint condition. But when it comes to leasing, it is all about what is the most I can get for my $$$$
  • Until last September, I leased an '01 A6 4.2. What a great car. As markcincinnati said, the quality of materials, fit & finish, and performance were all top notch. And I leased the thing fo $720/mo w/ $0 down where the comparable BMW 540i was $150 MORE.


    When the lease ran out, I chose to go down market to the '05 A4 3.0 USP as I had recently moved to the city and perferred a small car (and payment). The car is great, but Audi really didn't make the same effort. For instance, the dash is a harder plastic than the A6, the "leather" seats are vinyl on the bolsters and headrests, etc. The MSRP was $42k and when compared to a friend's 330i, it is certianly a step down. Sure, I have quattro and a better "looking" interior (and exterior IMHO), but the 3.0 I6 in the BMW is smooth as silk and sounds great (much like my old 4.2 V8). I am, for the most part, appauled by the noises that come from my 3.0 V6 above 4k RPM.


    As much as I enjoy my A4, I really don't think Audi has "solved" the BMW 3 series and from what I've seen of the new A4, they are still short. It is (was) a completely different story with the A6 vs the 5 series, however. Sadly, I wouldn't buy either of these in current model form due to the questionable styling. I hope both BMW & Audi will rethink their current diesgn directions by the time my lease is up!
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,642
    I am, for the most part, appauled by the noises that come from my 3.0 V6 above 4k RPM.


    I wouldn't say appalled but the Audi V6's don't like to rev which is odd considering the 5-valve setup.


    The BMW sixes are truly in a class by themselves when the rpms go over 5 grand.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • The bang for the buck.


    I pay $600 permo for my o3 allroad. I recall going over to Infiniti to look at the slow selling Q45 and M45. They wanted over $700 per mo for the M45! Its butt ugly, but I thought the v8 for the money would be sweet for about $450 a mo!! Especially for a car they can't move. The Q is butt ugly also, but lots of toys! It was $800. Granted it has a much higher sticker, but those dogs were not moving!


    I agree, its hard to fall in love when the lease deals don't favor. That payment is what counts and brand loyalty can go out the window at some price points!


    As long as the warranty covers the lease, Im usually ok, even if its a saab!
  • I must agree with a number of the recent comments made and would like to interject from a current buyers prospective. I am 3 months away from the termination of my ’02 A4 lease and was up until recently, looking forward to the ’05 A6 as my next car. As has been well documented, the launch of the A6 has been less than spectacular bordering on non-existent. I first saw the car in France in September and began dreaming but to this date, I have seen 1 on the road yet more Phaetons in the same period!!! With all respect to those outside of New England, our market is absolutely crucial for European auto producers. Audi has always enjoyed a solid following here as the products complimented our environment and egos but without competitive pricing and marketing, their future is bleak amongst the ever-widening field of choices from more reliable manufacturers for less money.


    I think my wife and I represent an opportunity for most mid to upper tier auto producers. We are 34-35, both corporate professionals, no children yet, just built a home in plastic, suburban Conneciticut subdivision and whose incomes are healthy. It difficult to say that without feeling like a heel but this is one of the pictures marketers are looking for. October, after looking at 10 vehicles, we replaced my wife’s leased ML320 with a purchased, loaded ’04 XC70 for $31,750. The A6 Avant? laughable pricing. Not apples to apples autos but to spend that much on Audi apples would have been foolish.


    Back on track, we are 3 months from the A4 lease termination and have yet to hear from the dealership or from Audi!! For anyone is sales, you know that retention is a major challenge, that 10 – 20% of new revenue first goes towards making-up the lost business of the prior year and a simple principal of business is that a new customer is more expensive than an existing customer. Audi is about to loose me yet is making no attempts to conserve my business.


    Isn’t model line stratification intended to bring someone in young & cheap and nurture them for years and sold units to come? Successful or not, opinions aside, we seen Cadillac and Volkswagen adjust their entry points seeing their margins dwindle and the competition for my discretionary auto income explode. In 1998, I owned a 1995 Saab 900S convertible and was the second owner through a private sale yet Saab had my name and relentlessly marketed me through emails and mailings their new 9-3 and 9-5. The production level of those materials was impressive and campaign theme catchy. I didn’t buy another Saab then but today respect their efforts… hhmmm, considering a 9-5 lease today can be had for $400 but an A6 for $700, that savings will pay my monthly CC membership fees. Maybe that’s where I’ll be this weekend - 1 of the 3 local Saabs dealers amongst the 4 Audi dealers.


    Audi, bring back 1999’s $399 a month program and save your launch!!!! or then again, there’s always or
  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWPosts: 2,783
    last weekend. I was overall favorably impressed with the car for the money. When I inquired about any special lease rates, I was told that there were none. The salesperson went on to decisively say that the car "was only out for a month" (and what did I expect?). With virtually no one at the dealer at the time I found it curious that he was so arrogant.
  • . . .based on what I can glean from the previous few postings, including my own, this is NOT an issue of "affordability" for the posters; nor is it an issue of believing that the Audi (the new A6 for instance) is overpriced from an MSRP perspective.


    But, "this class" of car is overwhelmingly leased by folks in their mid thirties to probably mid sixties who have a 6 figure household income. Probably, the education of many of the customers of this class includes many four-year degrees. Certainly there must be a decent representation of Master's degreed folks, too. Moreover, the number of "professional" people (Doctors, Lawyers, Architects) and management types must be quite high, too.


    I think the thing that just bothers us is "knowing" the value proposition just isn't there. Probably many of us would pay $700 a month for a stripped A6 if we didn't know that a better equipped 5 was almost $150 a month less.


    No one likes to feel they have been taken -- even if Audi's price is "fair" -- just knowing that the others are out there (even if we tell ourselves they are being subsidized by their respective finance arms) for big bucks less, sours us on the brand.


    My wife is typical: she has a BA, MBA and JD, is employed by a large public corporation, makes good money and can afford $700 a month payments on a $40,000 car. She doesn't really want an Infiniti G35x, but after driving it and knowing that for the same out of pocket and the same term, the Infiniti (which actually performs better than the current A4 3.0) is $555 a month and has a 60,000 mile warranty and offers a "free loaner" G35 (the dealership has a fleet of 50 of them) when the car is in for service and the Audi dealer rents her a PT cruiser from Enterprise -- well her current payment of $709 per month just ticks her off.


    Her current car is a 2003 Audi. She needs to order a new car (assuming a 12 - 14 wk lead time) at the end of March. She has priced both a new Ultra Sport A4 3.0 and the G35x -- I can hardly imagine her acquiring the Infiniti -- but she thinks Audi is "driving her away" -- offering instead a "loyalty dis-incentive."


    Last night she had me configure a maxed out Volvo S40 T5 AWD (just south of $39,000 equipped the way she wants it). The Infiniti even beat THAT price, but the numbers are closer so she may jump from Audi to Volvo JUST to keep a European car (those of you who have had multiple European cars KNOW they do indeed "feel" different than even the best Japanese cars, no matter what their pedigree).


    This sense of "being driven away" is the most egregious issue. I do not make my wife's decisions but I certainly do attempt to influence her; and, I must say it is beginning to be very difficult to defend Audi to her no matter how much I opine (that the Audi is "better.")
  • . . . I drove the G35x myself (and a BMW "x" and a Merc C240 AWD and several other cars -- and two: the 300C AWD and Acura RL, remain on my personal "look see" list.) Moreover, just reading the test report of the M35 gives me pause, but I am less sanguine that it will have a decent launch lease program, so maybe that is nuts to even consider, but if it has a decent lease program, well, it too, could be a contender.

    The point is, these other cars are NOT BAD -- I would be OK with the BMW or the Mercedes -- and even the Volvo S60 type R was impressive!


    And. . .


    I don't yet have any strong feelings for the G35x but I was impressed with its power and brakes. And, the Sirius sat radio was CD quality. So, although I remain unconvinced, I see her (my wife's) point about the Audi loyalty dis-incentive.


    A Program Note: Interesting editorial by Brock Yates about European cars -- I recommend it to your attention.


    If, and it is a fairly big if, we stray from the fold, I know I will miss Audi (nothing even comes close - IMHO). But unless all the other guys raise their lease prices or Audi lowers theirs, well I just don't think we want to be dissed like that.


    Perhaps I should go to confession.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    The comment of leasing a stripped A6 for $700 a month is a little off base. You can look on the Audi USA website and get some lease information. Each region of the US is different, so prices may fluctuate.


    Some dealers were advertising a 47k A6 Quattro with premium & convienence packages for 499 a month w/ around 5k down for 24 months. For around $2500 down, you could be right around $600 a month...give or take a bit.
  • I think a main issue here is that the C6 jumped a level. You used to have three distinct sedan lines- A4, A6, A8. A4 was high-end entry level luxury, A6 comfortably mid-level luxury, and A8 opulent high-end. Now, I don't see any advantage of the A8 over the A6- except for the additional space you achieve in the L version.


    It's more like an A7 now, leaving a huge gap from where the A6 buyers/leasees came from. My local dealer mentioned that he is seeing more A8 owners migrating to the A6 than he is A4, countered to it being heavily in the other direction as recently as a few months ago.
  • Please don't enocurage enyone to put $5K down on a lease. Why would one loose the buying/investment power of that much money? If your willing to put $5K on a lease, your better off getting the lowest possible purchase price, put the $5K as a deposit and finance the rest over 3 years using today's low rates and then sell with some equity built in.


    $5K down on 24 months is not $499 a month but $707.
  • The information I passed along assumed NO MONEY DOWN, 36 months, 10,000 miles per year and an MSRP of $48K -- lease price on Feb 1, 2005 was $698. I would hope if I coughed up $5K up front that my lease payment would drop AT LEAST $25 per $1,000.


    Even then the payment would be $698 - (5 x 25) = $573 per month for 36 months with ONLY 10,000 miles per year and .25 per mile over 10,000 miles per year or 30,000 on the lease. This is no "deal." This is just "not competitive."


    And. . .


    Why would anyone put money down on a lease for pity's sake?
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,642
    Why would anyone put money down on a lease for pity's sake?


    Most people are conditioned by advertising to believe they must put $ down on a lease. They don't realize that there may be a wide latitude for negotiation on a lease depending on market conditions,

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    Why would anyone put money down on a lease for pity's sake?


    I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. That is like LITERALLY throwing away $5K! Personally, I would never put anything more than tax/title/license down on a lease. Then again, after a horrible experience with a Toyota lease years ago, I probably will never lease again.


    Leases never have made a whole lot of sense to me. You pay for the depreciation on the car, turn it in, then have no car! If you like the car, you buy it, but you end up paying for the car TWICE. I can't see paying for a car for 8 years. And the residual value will always work out to the dealer's advantage. If you come to an agreement on a low residual value, you're going to pay more on the front end for the lease payments. If you do a high residual and end up wanting to keep the car, you're going to pay through the nose to buy it. Also, if you do a high residual, you're only allotted a handful of miles per year and if you go over that and don't buy the car, you're really going to get your trousers pulled down for going over the mileage and they'll probably stick you for some new tires, among other things.

    (This stuff didn't happen to me, BTW.)

    It's just a lose-lose situation for the consumer. Why would you want to pay for the "privilege" of driving one of their cars?
  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    I don't why people are saying the A6 payments are too high on a lease compared to other cars.


    Look at the Mercedes website. They're advetising a E320 w/ a $51,190 MSRP for $599 a month with $4,144 down for 39 months.


    With a true 0 cash out of pocket, that's over $700 a month on a 39 month lease. And that E320 is 2wd old bodystyle car compared to the Audi Quattro with a brand new body style and best in class interior.

  • kscctsksccts Posts: 140
    For many consumers, leasing is a good idea. If you are going to trade every 3 years anyway, why not lease. Is it the cheapest way to go; no, but it is cheaper than trading in a car every 3 years that you are upside down on. The most financially sound decision is to buy a reasonable car and drive it until the wheels fall off but nobody wants to do that because it isn't fun. Cars are so much more than just transportation.


    Manufacturer subsidized leases can be a very good deal for consumers.
  • Check out the BMW 5 series lease, for another perspective.
  • Subsidized leases are often a great value.


    And, I don't understand the argument about paying for the depreciation and turning the car in owing and owning nothing. Isn't that the idea?


    Now, if you WANT to buy a car and keep it until the cows come home or some other indication of "a long long time," the best way is to buy the car for 60 months on a zero or near zero percent deal (if you can still find one).


    For someone who wants a "new car" every 3 to 4 years, and doesn't want to have to deal with an asset that depreciates faster than flash paper burns, leasing actually makes sense. If you have ANY biz justification, too, leasing makes handling things with the IRS less complicated.


    No system is perfect for "using" a car.


    I would think perfection would be to find a low milage one or two model year old car with plenty or original warranty (and one that can be CPO'd) and buy it in cash or for a low finance % if such is available.


    I have been able to do this ONE time in my life, I bought a "brand new" 1987 Audi 5000 CS turbo quattro in early 1989 for about 45% of sticker -- the car had under 20,000 miles on it and had, apparently, never had any passengers in it and never had been smoked in. The warranty was complete to 50,000 miles, the car was pristine and the dealer put brand new tires on it to cinch the deal.


    That was THE ONE -- I have not had this happen since. I looked at a brand new A8L that had 5,000 miles on it -- the person bought it for his wife and she was afraid to drive it saying it was a whale. But they still wanted 80% of MSRP -- didn't get my attention.


    If I were really smart, I would have jumped on one of those $599 a month Phaeton deals that were really subsidized by VW.


    I like leasing -- at this moment. I understand that it is not for everyone.


    I cannot imagine putting money down on a lease, unless it was an open ended lease and I was pretty darn sure I wanted the car and could justify the cap cost reduction to reduce the mo pay and build my equity position. This would have to be a rare circumstance and would only apply to an open ended lease -- most people are never even offered such an option.


    Some people don't even know there is an open ended and closed ended lease product to choose from.
  • kscctsksccts Posts: 140
    Well said!!!!!
  • Hi there. Just wondering if any 2005 A6 drivers have had an issue with the battery indicator readings and as a result some Advanced Key functions? Have had the car since mid-December - has about 600 miles on it. Last weekend I was noticing that after locking the car using the button under the door handle, I would return to the car and it wasn't unlocking for me without using the unlock button on the actual remote. I also noticed that the security light was no longer on, which is why I checked the battery level on the MMI to discover that it was only at 10%. A bit concerned by this only a month after purchase, I took it into the dealer to discover that the battery was actually at 80%; the system was getting a faulty read, and as a result was shutting down auxiliary functions (why the Advanced Key wasn't working to unlock the door)...


    Car has just spent its second day at the dealership and they apparently have been dealing with Audi International to fix it...Tried resetting the battery indicator, which was not successful, so tomorrow we are on to replacing the "brain", which I take to be more than just the battery indicator programming...


    Anyone heard of this? Any insight would be great. We have always hesitated to buy a car in its first model year, and now I am wondering....
  • the way I have been doing it for the past few years. I wanted an Audi A6, so i bought a 2003 A6 with 21,000 miles for $25,000 out the door. THe car has 2.5 years left of warranty or 29,000 miles to go. ALL service included. This car sold new for about $40,000 17 months ago. that is about $882.00 of depreciation a month. OUCH!!!!! The car is impeccable. Sure, It does not have the ideal color combination as if I would have gotten it new, but I can live with white any day and with the price I paid. I can drive the car for two years, maybe trade it in for 16K to 18K and my depreciation would be about $300 a month ,which is a payment I can live with that any day too. I get to drive the same car many people are driving for twice as much and I get to decide in a few years what my next move will be assuming I make one. Who knows maybe I will be able to buy the NEW 2005 A6 for 25K to in a few years.


    The only way to get a good deal on a lease is if is being subsidized by car company. Otehrwise, look to pay a big premium.
  • Has anyone put metallic window tint film, e.g., Llumar 35% ATR charcoal, on a new A6 yet?


    If so, have you had any problems with radio and or NAV system reception? (A of A recently told me antennas for both are in the rear window).
  • This method of car ownership may be wonderful, perfect and fiscally sound for you. For other people it might even be considered ridiculous. We are all certain that our way is the "best way" I am not excluding myself from this.


    I have a personal belief that there is no such thing as "common sense" unless the definition is "common to ONE person only, the person who believes it."


    I think your approach is sound. I also think your approach is somewhat impractical. I actually thought this could be done time and time again. My last successful experience was in early 1989. But then I am somewhat picky, I do want to pick the color, the options, the engine and transmission and other features that I have deemed important.


    I am not in any way criticizing what you do -- I do think it is difficult to accomplish if you place value on color, options, timing, etc.


    I place more "value" on the ability to get what I want when I want. I have had the wherewithal to do so thus far. My "balance of nature" would not allow me, thus far, to accept a white car if I was looking for a silver one. And, thus far, I have not found the price trade off to motivate me to make such a "trade off."


    Good for you. Not necessarily a "livable" way to do things for everyone.


    A free Imola yellow Audi would not be turned down -- but I would quickly sell it and put that money towards a car I could actually see myself driving.


    To each his/her own.
  • I agree with you too.


    I would have loved to buy a Brand New A6 in the right color with the right options. But, I also like tobe practical and still drive a premium car, buying it the way I did makes a lot of sense to me, considering that I like to change cars every three years or so. I hate taking a bath too.


    But nothing wrong with your approach. Nothing! I think leasing is a great alternative. But it needs to be subsidized by the company. To be honest with you, I would have no problem driving a BMW, LExus, Audi, MEc, or any of hem as long as the deal was great. Unfortunely, Lexus is the only one that provides the great leases, but having two of the same is not my thing. My wife drives a Lexus ES330 for less than $400 a month. Nothing wrong with that either.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    There's more than monthly payments to consider for some customers.


    As for putting money down, there's nothing wrong with putting a few thousand dollars down on a lease. Some people want to have XX amount to pay every month, so you put that amount down to make your payments what you want.


    Some of you people don't realize that not every customer counts interest down to last nickel and drives themself crazy with residual values to the nearest .0001. They're busy making money and not hanging out and worrying about buying a car at 500 over invoice.


    If you have a half a million in the bank and your house is paid for, you're not driving yourself crazy over putting 0 down or 5000 down. They'll spend that amount anyway on the summer trip to Hawaii.


    I'm in the car business with Audi, and 2/3 of my customers right now are buying A6's outright for cash... or financing them with a large amount of money down or a trade that is already paid for.


    We're seeing a lot of loyal BMW and Mercedes customers looking at the new A6. It's a large car inside and the interior fit and finish is incredible.


    Some people are being a bit more conservative in todays times and instead of dropping 75k on a S class or 7 series, and new A6 is a sensible alternative. 55k for a 335hp 4.2 A6 w/ nav and all the goodies is bringing people in the door, and we're selling them at a brisk pace. Although the 3.2 V6 is selling in larger numbers because of the price point.
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 221
    I think I did pretty good. My car MSRP'd for 50,270, I paid just under 48,200 which included $500 Audi loyalty. Lease was 3yr/15k,$726/month. Out of pocket was $1650: $800 acquisition fee(NY)+ $726 first month + $150 misc stuff. No security deposit required (another audi loyalty). The kicker was I extended my expired '01 A6 lease by four months and was rebated $1223 (2 months) back from AFS. Compared to a BM 530 my deal was as good or better and I didn't have to buy rims and snows.
  • As a salesperson, would you mind commenting on the principal of re-leasing? Does AFS offer this option?


    Thru FMC, Jaguar dealers aggressively promote programs to re-lease their products. At this point, they are still utilizing certified pre-owned '01 product and likely will flip to '02 in the next quarter.


    **** I am not looking for opinions of the auto but the concept****


    The tantalizing aspect is a lower mile, certified auto, still protected by a warranty at a reasonable payment but for only 24 months. If the Jaguar program follows its historical price trend, you'd be able to pick-up an '02 XJ8 for less than $425 per month where an '05 would run $900 - $1000 for 24 months.


    I would be interested in doing this with say, a low mileage A8 or A6 4.2.
  • In my experience re-leasing often is practically the same as financing. The reason for this, typically is that part of leasing called "residual" -- the residual after another 36 months is often close to nil, so the lease payment is based on a very low residual, which effectively means the car is being financed.


    If you can find someone to bring the car in at a good residual, the payment will be better, but leasing seems to work most to the consumers advantage on a new car.
  • Good comments and concepts.


    I think some have sticker shock. My allroad was like 43k. I put no money down, and pay $600 39mos. Not the greatest, but not bad either.


    Logic would have it that if I did a new Audi that was about 47-48k, or 10% higher, my payment should be about $660. Jumping to $725 is a 21% increase.


    Apples to apples, the MSRP on the allroad was 46k. ANd I would not expect based on supply and demand a disount as the one I have. But its still sticker shock!


    I would roll in and sign up for a $675 payment and would not even look anywhere else!


    But, At these prices, Im gonna shop it first.


    I would hope things would soften up when my number comes up, but one wants to feel SMART about what they drive off with. An es330 for under 400$ is very appealing! Its not my dream car, but far from suffering.


    If I want that oyster w/ameretto interior I know I will have to pay. If I emerge on a dealer at months end, I know I can get a great deal, but gotta take whats on the lot! LIfes is full of trade offs!
  • First, putting money down on a lease IS NOT SMART. A few posts above, rjlaero claims there is nothing wrong with putting some money down in order to achieve a certain monthly payment. There's no logic in this- here's why.


    The money down does NOTHING to decrease your total payments on the lease. Nothing. All it does is pay some of the money up front and leave it exposed. If you are going to put $2500 into a lease, why not simply keep that money in an account and draw on it to pay the lease? Because.....if this car is totaled or stolen, any money you put down vanishes. Gone forever. But if you were smart enough to keep it as a draw, you keep the money and the bank pays of your lease. You lose nothing other than acquisition and DMV fees.


    Secondly, someone above said their lease compared favorably to a BMW 530i. That's not true. As I've stated many times, I would have leased an A6 had it been anywhere near compettitve on a lease price. My MSRP was $52,595 on my BMW 530, and I leased it for $600 pre-tax ($630 total monthly), with $0 down, 36 months, 15k miles a year. I have NAV and Sat radio- a comparably equipped Audi 3.2 would run for about 50k and was up close to $800. The reason for this is that I was able to negotiate 3k off MSRP on the BMW, the finance rate on the lease was .00125 as opposed to .00140 (more than it seems), and the residual was a whopping 5% better on the BMW.
  • Your explanation is quite elegant; my pea brain just says "I cannot afford to put money down on a lease" for it is like burning paper money to keep warm.


    The only way that putting money down MIGHT work, is if you gave them $5000 and they let you skip the first 10 payments altogether. However you are correct, if you gave them the $5K and agreed to allow you to skip the first "x" payments and in month 1 the car is totalled, well the gap insurance would pay off the car, but NOT rebate you the unused portion of the cap cost reduction.


    And, surely you would not get to pick up where you left off with the replacement car you leased -- there was no equity.


    If you can afford to put money down on a lease, then you can make the payments and use the money you would have put down to augment the payment.


    It is, however, a free country -- and what the heck? If you want to put money down on a lease, more power to you.


    It just seems something that only the very wealthy could afford to do (but the very wealthy probably didn't get that way by putting money down on a car lease.)


    While I certainly do not want another recession, the zero interest binge we were put on over the past 3 years, should it ever return, might be THE best way to "buy" a car. Several folks I know got the 60 months same as cash deal -- why would they pay in full up front when they can spread it out?


    Even VW participated in that type of financing -- but NOT Audi.
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 221
    My car is equipped with premium and convenience packages, Nav, Sat radio, parktronic, 17 " wheels, premium leather and voice recognition. I went to BMW's site and configured a 530 to match and it MSRP'd for $54,865, which is $2270 more than your car. Based on $25 for each additional $1000 your lease would then run you $56 more. With these calculations your lease pre tax = $656, my lease pre tax = $668. Two other options you don't have that come standard on the A6 are AWD that’s got to cost close to $2,000 and a full size spare tire and rim that’s got to cost at least $500. Using the same formula add that to your lease and you are now at $718. BMW $718 versus Audi $668. In summary both are great driving cars and it would be fun if we could swap cars for a week or so. BTW I think the BMW has a more comfortable suspension on rough roads, the only beef that I have with my car so far.
  • 2005 530 Eqipped As Close As Possible w/ 2005 A6 3.2 = $54,740


    BMW 36 mo closed end 15,000 m lease = $696


    2005 A6 3.2 = $53,270


    Audi 36 mo closed end 15,000 m lease = $809


    Both assumed $2500 cap cost reduction.


    Maybe the BMW is artificially low. It does not matter at this point if one is shopping based on what certainly seems to be similar cars.


    BMW's cache, and it pains me to say this, is currently higher than Audis.


    You may argue that the BMW will soon be replaced with an updated version and that this is a year end close out sale.


    For the new to Audi shopper, who is willing to look at the competitive landscape, Audi simply seems to be not doing itself any favors.


    I might argue long and loud that the Audi is AWD, it is a "finer finsished" car and on and on and on.


    You might point out that the current test comparo in MT suggests that the BMW still trumps the Audi in overall performance.


    I might counter, yea, what does MT know.


    And then the $ is brought up.


    You would say "residual" differences? Even if you are paying cash -- if you fully analyze the money pertaining to these two cars, you might conclude "why buy the one with the lowest residual?"


    I would counter AWD forever! You would probably be deaf to my arguments.


    As a long time loyalist and some would say apologist for the brand, my issue is that we long timers think Audi is presenting us with a dis-incentive and loyalty penalty if you will.


    I won't even go to Inifiniti and so I am told Lexus to compare their costs to the consumer.


    This situation, I am convinced, will improve markedly by the end of the second quarter -- it almost "has to."
  • In the event the vehicle is totalled or stolen, any cap cost reduction is a loss. Better to put the cap cost money in an account and draw it down while making the higher lease payments.
  • Same problems as tvettel with my 2005 Audi A6 3.2--now 845 miles. Has truly dangerous acceleration lag--at times in excess of two seconds--usually when coasting at 2-3 mph and then accelerating, especially into a right turn for some reason. The sensation is that engine has gone dead, then it roars to life as the accelerator has been depressed in an instinctive "panic" to get the car going. I have had two close calls as a result of this lag, thinking that I had plenty of time to enter traffic--two seconds is an eternity when entering moving traffic. I have tried the turn on key and press gas pedal trick--seems to alleviate the touchy brakes but not the acceleration issue. Have used Tip and S modes, but seems a waste of effort (and gas) in dense traffic. Car is into Audi service today--will let you all know if they have a fix. If anyone else has a fix, please let me know--thanks.
  • Same as it ever was, same as it ever was:


    1997 A8 5spd NON tip but "adaptive" auto

    1999 A6 5spd tiptronic

    2000 A6 4.2 5spd tiptronic

    2001 A6 4.2sport 5sped tiptronic


    -- all had EXACTLY the tip lag or combination transmission+drive by wire lag symptoms.


    On the other hand none of the other two dozen Audis that we have had since our first one in 1977 that were manual transmission equipped have ever had any lags (OK, the first 1.8T, 180HP TT quattro, MY 2000 DID have a bit of turbo lag, but nowhere near as bad as the automatic equipped Audis lag).


    Here is the heck of this situation -- in about 15 minutes the only Audis you can get EASILY with a manual transmission will be: S4, A4 2.0T and if there is a new TT, I assume it too will come with the stick available.


    Reap what ye sow. We, the customers, have killed the manual transmissions -- shame on us.


    Before you go thinking this is ONLY an Audi issue, I say Na Baby Na -- ever try a Porsche with a tip?


    Yep, same as it ever was, same as it ever was.


    As I have opined before -- I think these manumatic transmissions (in several fine European cars and probably some American ones too and maybe even some Japanese cars for all I know) have been programmed to behave this way.


    I read a letter to the editor in a publication I subscribe to called "the quattro quarterly" and the EXACT same lag at 1 - 4 MPH "one mississippi, two m-i-s-s-i-s-s-i-p-p-i" delay and then VROOOOM were described as "dangerous."


    I retrained my tip at least once a day when I had my last one -- and even then, from time to time, I would slow down at an intersection to the famous rolling stop and attempt to accelerate (turning or not) only to sense the engine seem to have a "flat spot" for a second to a second and a half, sometimes even longer (but rarely) and then that big Audi 4.2 V8 with nearly 300 ft pounds of torque would lunge forward as if stuck with a cattle prod.


    I have a 2.7T allroad with a 6spd manual and the only lunging I ever do is "intended."


    Since the program seems to be acting "as it was written to do" it really beats the heck out of me what they will do. Of course, they will reset the threshold and you will drive away, albeit temporarily, appeased.


    What in the wide wide world of sports were they thinking when they wrote the program?!?
  • Thanks, Markcincinnati--you write very informative responses. If I can't get this cured (admittedly, this is my first trip to the dealer), I will have to consider other options--it is literally too dangerous not knowing whether one might have a two second lapse in acceleration--there are times when such timing can be critical. This very morning a pedestrian waived me through a crosswalk, the car hesitated and she accordingly thought I was waiting for her--she started out, the car lunged, close call--could have been very serious.


    I love the car otherwise--very nice lines, beautiful interior and great ride. Given your citing of history in this regard, it is amazing that they haven't fixed it.
  • I don't know about lemon law for tip lag... but I've found that I can prevent this somewhat by pumping the accelerator in those situations. You can't drive it like a typical car, but pump the accelerator then let off and gently press in as the car begins to move.


    I personally haven't had the severe, "dangerous" problems you are describing, but have noticed a mild lag when driving in "D".


    Hope it gets better for you!
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    I found, at least with the old V6, that if I quickly “tapped” the throttle about 25% or so that it would accelerate “appropriately”. The speed of the throttle itself seems to be just as important as how far you push it.


    You can’t slowly squeeze the throttle and get performance out of it.


    Similarly with passing power; a quick tap of the throttle and it would down shift one gear and get moving. If you slowly pressed the accelerator to the same position, or even further, nothing would happen; and it would feel as if you were towing a trailer.
  • Thanks "liferules" and "ivan_99"--I will try your suggestions--though it is a shame to have to adapt driving routine to the engine/transmission/DBW--it should be the other way around.


    I will also post my experience with the dealer when I have the car again.
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